2002 windstar engine pinging??????

[schadd1971]

Hi,, I have 2002 windstar and lately I have noticed that it has been pinging when under load..like going up hills or accelerating somewhat medium to heavy..and I have seem to notice it more than in the past,,,in fact I dont recall hearing it ping in the past...the ping sounds like that cheap gas ping that you would hear in cars back in the 80s and 90s,,,never heard it until lately...was wondering if a sensor or timing or some other issue can be involved....thanks..

[wiswind]

The BEST information that I can direct you to is here....
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

It is likely that you have a vaccum leak, which is what the isolator bolt issue causes.
A vaccum leak is anytime air enters the cylinders that has NOT passed through the Mass AirFlow sensor (MAF).
The MAF is mounted on the Air filter box, so any air that enters the intake at any point between there and the intake valves.
The air that is pulled in through the PCV valve (in the front valve cover on your 2002) is replaced by air drawn in through the breather tube (rear valve cover on your 2002) which connects to the big flex hose between the air filter box and the throttle body.
This is air that HAS passed through the MAF (if that tube is not connected, however, that would be a vaccum leak as air would be drawn into the flex hose instead of out of it)

Another likely cause is the IMRC actuator, which on your 2002 is 1 electric actuator that is supposed to control both of the IMRC shafts.
What happens is that the nylon clips that connect the rods between the actuator and the IMRC shafts fall off.
This leaves 1 or both of the IMRC shafts flapping whatever way they want.
This can cause the symptoms you are seeing.

Normal tune-up items, such as fuel filter, spark plugs, air filter and so on should be verified to be in good shape.

Another cause could be an issue with the EGR system.
The EGR flow sensor, called DPFE on the Windstar, is a common issue.
Also, clogged EGR ports is a common issue.
The EGR valve on the Windstar is quite reliable and rarely fails.

[schadd1971]

hi wiswind...well to start...I did the isolator bolt /vacuum leak cure when I bought the van a few years ago and recently read about the clips on the imrc shafts and thought that had to be it but checked them and they seem intacted....also the dpfe was replaced not to long ago before the pinging issue started...you have me curious about a vacuum leak in the breather tube...I will check this...Im not to up on the IMRC..can you explain this to me?

[wiswind]

IMRC, Intake Manifold Runner Control.
The reason that the upper intake is big is because there are 2 intake ports for each cylinder.
1 set is open all the time.
The other set has a plate that is mounted on a shaft.
Each bank of 3 cylinders has 3 plates, 1 for each cylinder mounted on a shaft.
Under certain conditons, above roughly 2900rpm, like hard accellertation (just reving the motor does not do it) the IMRC actuator turns the shafts, opening the 2nd port for each cylinder, giving you a boost of extra power.
If the extra ports are open at low RPM, it can cause drivability issues and cause lower fuel economy.

Regarding your pinging, the most common (by far), cause is a vaccum leak.
Carbon buildup inside the cylinders can also cause this.
The FORD solution for the carbon buildup is to reprogram the PCM (computer) to not advance the timing so much.

One other thing that you can do is to treat a tank of gasoline with Berryman's B-12 Chemtool.
This particular cleaner is a strong solvent type of cleaner that will clean the fuel injectors very well.

[mark_gober]

Originally Posted by wiswind

The BEST information that I can direct you to is here....
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

It is likely that you have a vaccum leak, which is what the isolator bolt issue causes.
A vaccum leak is anytime air enters the cylinders that has NOT passed through the Mass AirFlow sensor (MAF).
The MAF is mounted on the Air filter box, so any air that enters the intake at any point between there and the intake valves.
The air that is pulled in through the PCV valve (in the front valve cover on your 2002) is replaced by air drawn in through the breather tube (rear valve cover on your 2002) which connects to the big flex hose between the air filter box and the throttle body.
This is air that HAS passed through the MAF (if that tube is not connected, however, that would be a vaccum leak as air would be drawn into the flex hose instead of out of it)

Another likely cause is the IMRC actuator, which on your 2002 is 1 electric actuator that is supposed to control both of the IMRC shafts.
What happens is that the nylon clips that connect the rods between the actuator and the IMRC shafts fall off.
This leaves 1 or both of the IMRC shafts flapping whatever way they want.
This can cause the symptoms you are seeing.

Normal tune-up items, such as fuel filter, spark plugs, air filter and so on should be verified to be in good shape.

Another cause could be an issue with the EGR system.
The EGR flow sensor, called DPFE on the Windstar, is a common issue.
Also, clogged EGR ports is a common issue.
The EGR valve on the Windstar is quite reliable and rarely fails.

Wiswind,

Can you clarify the portion above regarding the PCV valve. I know the PCV valve brings crankcase gasses up to be reburned. I assumed the fitting on the back valve cover did the same. Were you saying the rear hose is putting gases back into the crankcase?

Mark

[schadd1971]

Hi Schadd here again....well checked the hoses under the hood and seen one that was questionable so I replaced it...dont know if it was my imagination but it seemed like it helped for a bit but now it still pings and I got a low idle miss (at least thats when I feel it)....I wonder if its a timing issue or what....any ideas....

[olopezm]

Might be just coincidence, I had the same problem with pinging under load and missing at idle; I installed new spark plugs and the problem seems to be gone.

Oscar.

[wiswind]

If the problem is gone....don't argue with success......
One thing that comes to mind with the 1999 and newer Windstar with the "Isolator bolt" issue is the FORD TSB that gives a reflash of the PCM that slightly retards the timing.....
The issue is that if the extra oil vapor enters the engine long enough.....carbon builds up inside the cylinders, which increases the compression.
My solution, OVER delay of timing, would be to use a higher octane gasoline.....try 89.....and if that is not enough...try Premium.....92 or 93 octane (US values here).

The above thread.....spark plugs.....brings up a point that I have mentioned many times.
Address ANY routine maintenance items BEFORE looking to the exotic or expensive solutions.
Many people drive a vehicle until something goes wrong......there are things that are listed in the owner's manual that need to be addressed at specific times/mileage.......look to those FIRST.

[schadd1971]

I actually wondered about plugs...could it be that simple....I checked vacuum lines,plug wires ,coil, and all other things I could think of...is there any cleaner for carbon just for the heck of it and yes I will try the plugs......

[schadd1971]

I was reading about using a sea foam cleaning method on web site LT1 engine web site under how to sea foam your car /clean carbon out wondered what wiswind or anyone thinks of this or have tried it....anyone???

[olopezm]

Some people agree with using seafoam and some others don't because the possibility of having big chunks of carbon loose in the cylinders is NOT a good idea. I personally haven't used it so can't comment about it.

Oscar.

[MARZBX157]

81,000 Miles.

I have also been chasing down this pinging issue and did pass 2 cans of Berryman's Chemtool through the Brake Booster Vacuum hose in 2 separate occasions. The engine did run much better but still had the pinging sound under load as you described. I then removed the Upper Intake Plenum and cleaned the EGR ports and butterfly valves with Berryman's Throttle Body Spray and that cured the pinging. While I was in there I checked the IMRC rod with plastic clips and they looked worn, while moving them around I ended up braking one of the clips off the rod. So I purchased a new set from Dorman (47099) and will be replacing the whole set soon, but the pinging issue seems to be gone. Also, I purchased a new DPFE (Black) because my van still has the old (Silver) one on it. Good Luck.

Note: I have the Original (silver) DPFE and never had a CEL code set, should I replace it anyway? Does this cause the EGR Ports to clog?

[schadd1971]

I am thinking of looking at that...I had the intake plenum off a couple years ago for the isolator bolt issue and cleaned the ports but a lot can happen in two years....and thank you for your response,,,,nice to hear from someone chasing down the same issues...Ill let ya know what I find.....am open to other ideas as well....

[MARZBX157]

I also did my intake a few years ago like you and again now. This time the EGR Ports looked better than before but were accumulating gunk on some on them. I would also recommend seafoam via the brake booster vacuum line. I drove the vehicle today and tried to recreate the pinging situation without success. Good Luck.

[schadd1971]

what did you clean the ports with?