Which order to upgrade exhaust system in?

[shorthand]

OK, so my priority on exhaust system aesthitics is tasteful.

That means I would be more than happy with the OEM chrome exhaust tip for the SI, which I understand is a bolt-on.

I also understand that the stock exhaust, unlike one on a chevrolet, doesn't suck.

Therefore, I was wondering if it would be worth it to upgrade the header first, and then maybe worry about the cat-back later.

The car has 36k miles on it, so I'm not removing the catalytic converter. I also plan to run STS class in Solo II, so posts like "get a turbo" really aren't helpful to me.

Torque is more important than power. I've seen the good reviews of the PowerCore header. Any other recommendations?

If the recommendation is for a cat-back first, Id be glad to hear it. Remember, the ojbective is to look near-stock with a simple, straight, circular, chrome tip.

[90CRXZCSi]

So are you really wanting an exhaust or just a tip? Some say the best way to upgrade and engine is to start from the exhaust, then go headers, then intake. of course most people start with intake first. Luckily with honda...you can put on intake and headers and the stock exhaust should be able to handle it.

[igo4bmx]

what about the apexi ws exhaust? quiet, small tip, good power, and low price (350+) i think thats a good bet.

[RunninSOHC]

The Resonater is what kills all power. Honda Mufflers are great. Put a 2 1/4 pipe from the CAT to the stock Honda Muffler and you can tell everyone your car is stock. Get a new piece made to fit the CAT back pipe to the muffler too. Really, you will be chirping 2nd gear like crazy once you ditch the resonater. Bombs just make noise on Hondas, there's no speed increase.

[igo4bmx]

Originally posted by RunninSOHC
The Resonater is what kills all power. Honda Mufflers are great. Put a 2 1/4 pipe from the CAT to the stock Honda Muffler and you can tell everyone your car is stock. Get a new piece made to fit the CAT back pipe to the muffler too. Really, you will be chirping 2nd gear like crazy once you ditch the resonater. Bombs just make noise on Hondas, there's no speed increase.

that is a very good suggestion, but wouldn't the stock muffler restrict flow? in diameter of the tip is much less than 2.5 inches

[Brice]

I would suggest buying Spoon headers. Those are bad ass bitches. When it comes to exhaust....well, I would personally tell you to go with an Apex'i N1 Cat-back but that's anything but stock looking. Go with something smaller like a DC sports exhaust or something. Heard those have small tips and are pretty quiet.

[ric]

the header is the weak link in a civic, i woudl seriously go with that first.

[RunninSOHC]

When you get a 2 1/4 piece also made to connect the pipe to the muffler you have a 2 1/4 cat back stock resonater free custom exaust. All of the restrictions are gone once you take out the resonater. The only other thing there is to do is gut the cat but that will make the honda make a catalytic rattling noise between 3 - 8 rpms and is very annoying. All backpressure is lost, too. The removal of the resonater and addition of 2 1/4 pipe (3 inch if turbo) is the key to a CAT back exaust. Addition of a bomb or muffler onto stock piping with the resonater will add no speed. It's still super restricted. The resonater must go. Here's proof. Take the muffler off, and make the resonater the muffler. Very loud, still slow. Next disconnect the resonater from the CAT. Very, very loud and very, very fast. Add a 2 1/4 pipe and reconnect stock muffler. Very, very fast and quiet and second gear will chirp even on a blown out clutch. Gas mielage improves, too and it only costs $100 at a local muffler shop. You also get to tell everyone your exaust is stock. Add a header and you're out. And supposedly stock. And your intake will get all of the attention.

[kidrocket]

spoon headers are nice but quite expensive. it seems that similar performance can be achieved with less money spent

[shorthand]

This has become a fascinating discussion.

I have to ask then, what does the resonator do?
Will removing it simply sacrafice some of the already small amount of torque for top-end power?

Why does Honda include it?
Why does Mugen include it on their cat-back system?

It would seem that if it didn't do something productive, like help with low-end torque by helping exhaust scavenging (a vacuum pulling the next exhaust pulse forward) or reduce noise, the engineers would have simply put a less expensive pipe in its place.

As tanatalizing as this is, I'd like to hear more support before believing that simply taking the resonator out will improve the situation markedly.

Gutting the cat, or otherwise making the car emissions illegal is simply out of the question on moral grounds. People do actually die because of smog-induced respritory distress.

[JimsCivicEX]

Willl removing the resonator make the car emmision illegal? We have heard all the good things about removing the resonator to gain hp, but what are the costs. Will we lose torque, acceleration, powerband effiantcy? Thanks for the time.

[RunninSOHC]

The resonater is distgusting! When I think of a resonater I think of mad restriction. The resonater restricts. I do not know why anyone would include a resonater with their performance exaust system. When I disconnected the exaust from the end of the cat, and let the cat hang down, my ex was dipping. Then I hooked it back up and disconnected the muffler, my resonater became my muffler, and my car was sllllllooooooooowwwwww..........and loud.............and it sucked..........and I hated it.......so what I did was I cut the part where the cat back pipe hooked up to the resonater right where the resonater hooked up....got my speed back.......but it was too loud so I got my stock ex muffler hooked up with a 2 1/4 from the CAT back. My stock muffler isn't slowing my car down, it was my resonater........My car is just as fast as when it was loud with no resonater except for one thing, it is quiet and I can hear my intake again............
Go ahead and buy a resonater and flush your money down the toilet :bathroom:
CONCLUSION: RESONATER = RESTRICTION = SLOW =
AS FOR CAT GUTTING:
Do you really want to hear a Catalytic Rattling noise from 3 - 8 thousand RPMs???????.........It becomes turbo rattle as soon as the engine hits prime VTEC.....Civic's with gutted cat make digusting noises with all of the rattling going on from gutted cat....and there REALLY ISN'T MUCH SPEED GAINED.............I HATE BEING BEHING NASTY NO CAT EXAUSTS WITH MY WINDOWS DOWN....IT SMELLS LIKE SHIT, AND IS PROBABLY CAUSING SOME BRAIN DAMAGE....YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!As soon as you drive your car without a resonater you will say, I can't believe I didn't do this sooner.......and once you take off the resonater you will never go back..........
MY RESONATER IS ROTTING AWAY IN THE BROWARD COUNTY LANDFILL

[RunninSOHC]

MY STOCK EX MUFFLER DOES NOT RESTRICT FLOW....There is so much air coming out of my muffler it would blow you away.........When you stand next to the car idling you can hear air being pushed out of the stock muffler rapidly............I polished the EX tip so it looks hot....and it'sFLOW..........
IT'S THE 1 1/4 PIPING AND THE STOCK RESONATER THAT CAUSER RESTRICTION

[shorthand]

Runnin, I don't doubt that you believe what you're saying. Its just that I've never heard any scientific proof of what you're saying. (Dyno tests, or track or 0-60 times or something similar.) I don't doubt that Honda's cat-back is pretty efficient as a performance cat-back only nets a 2% HP gain in most cases.

However, I am still left with the question at hand, Runnin. If its just as quiet AND faster without the resonator, why did Honda include it. If a resonator doesn't help make usable power why did MUGEN include it? Regardless of what you think of Mugen's prices, we can all agree that they know what they're doing.

The best discussion I've seen of a resonator is that its an acoustic chamber that cancels noise at certain frequencies through destructive interference. AFAIK, its structured like a glass pack (internal pipe with holes, external pipe around that) without the insulating material.

Honestly, unless the holes are tiny, this should be pretty unrestrictive.

By the way, a more efficient exhaust should need less fuel/air burned to idle, therefore, less air coming out at idle.

Take a look at this article from import tuner. If you could explain why AEM's cat-back includes a resonator also, I'd appreciate it. (Note: this is clearly a all high-end power set up.)

[RunninSOHC]

THEN QWHY WAS MY CAR MUCH SLOWER AND RESTRICTIVE FEELING WHEN I HAD MY RESONATER HOOKED UP, WITH OR WITHOUT STOCK MUFFLER............MY CAR CAME WITH A WORN OUT CLUTCH SO NO CHIRPING FOR ME..............UNTIL I REMOVED MY RESONATER AND PUT 2 1/4 TO STOCK EX MUFFLER........NO CHIRP.........THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN CHIRP.........WHY IS THIS??THE RESONATER RESTRICTS....I HAVE SEEN MY OWN PROOF..........THE STOCK HONDA RESONATER RESTRICTS, AND I'M NOT ABOUT TO BUY A PERFORMANCE RESONATER........WELL IT CERTAINLY ISN'T SPEEDING IT UP!!!!!!!!!!