95 3.8 Windstar continued

After installing the intake gaskets I now have a bad miss. I replaced the plugs and plug wires, I have checked the circuit from battery to the distributor/coil and its good. My speedometer goes up now in park based on engine RPM, and when its running all chopy like that I hear a clanging noise like valves are open or loose maybe... I am praying thats just because of the miss being timing related. The noise is absent when the starter is cranking the engine without firing the plugs though.

Could it be the dist/coil thing itself after just replacing intake gaskets? Or am I looking at a computer frying or ICM frying? How can I tell the difference? I don't know how to track this down I got spark.

This van has really broken me lol, I need help!!!

1 thing that is important is to verify that you are not still using coolant.
If you are needing to add coolant......it could be leaking internally.
It is normal to need to add some coolant while the air pockets are "burped" out of the system....but after a day or so......there should be no need to add coolant.

You might remove the oil fill cap....and look down there while the motor is running at idle.
You should see oil pulsing out onto the "rocker arms".....that push the valves down.......as the motor runs.
If you do not.....then you are not getting oil circulation....and you will need to correct that before running the motor any more.

One thing that happened to me RIGHT after my lower intake manifold gasket job.......rough running, misfire codes.......caused by some dirt in the fuel injectors.
I guess that moving things around caused it?.....
My mechanic told me to add Berryman's B-12 Chemtool to the gasoline tank......it took a good 2 tanks of gasoline.....each treated with the Berryman's to clear up the problem.
Now......I swear by the stuff.
Interestingly.....it is one of the cheapest fuel system cleaners out there.
Now......if I notice even a very slight miss.......I put a can in.
Clears it right up.
I suspect the older windstars are more prone to this than the newer ones.

In my own experience, when something like this happens I go back and look for obvious signs of problems (often without success). Failing that I begin the process "re-doing" everything. In your case, dismantling the intake and in the process checking gaskets and plug wires (firmly connected and hooked up in the right order) and anything else that was touched in the process. Sometimes you can stop yourself short of re-doing everything once you find the definitive culprit ("that's not right" kinda thing). You'd be amazed how much quicker you can take everything apart a second time (familiarity, less seized components etc).

There is a decent chance you have introduced a vacuum leak. Vacuum leaks often cause what people describe as a "miss". They can be easy or hard to track down. Possible causes in this situation would be (in order of likely-hood):

1) You forgot to hook up a vacuum line when re-assembling your intake.
2) You hooked up a vacuum line to the wrong location.
3) You now have a gasket leaking/not sealing properly, all the gaskets that were exposed during your tear-down are suspect. You need to verify torque settings are correct, gaskets are not torn or compromised, gaskets are not on up-side-down etc (as dumb as it sounds I've done this)
4) You broke/cracked/dislodged a vacuum line whilst "ripping" things apart.

The "clanging" could be a by-product of a rough running engine. Something that was already loose is now being shaken by an engine that runs rough.

I wouldn't panic just yet.

I had the timing done correctly, I have no idea what the clanging is yet, but I found water in my oil again. I am praying its the opposite head, the one I neglected to replace the gasket. At the time it was fine, but now I have evidence of water EVERYWHERE, two cyinlders have enough water to not fire the others have just very very little getting into them. I do not know which two yet, by the time I get a compression test hooked up I could have the heads off. This morning I started the tear down again, and I was surprised how fast I got it down to ready to pull heads lol. I guess the third time u do it you get pretty fast. This time I'm not going to skip anything, I'm going to dismantle the heads and bath them in aluminum acid then inspect them very thorougly.

I have a bad feeling that maybe I missed a crack first inspection, that maybe the clanging is a piece of the head. But its still possible the clanging is just the rough running engine bouncing around. It appears my helper didn't get the engine mounts very tight after we replaced the water pump.

I"m going to paint everything and make the engine compartment grease free. May as well go all out, maybe I can get a decent trade in on this. I'm afraid the next thing will be the crank and bearings!!.

I think once I had the intake nice and tight and no pressure could escape that way, it must have finished blowing the gasket on the other head and maybe broke something.

This is what I get for rushing a repair on a head gasket and skipping steps, you would think a fella would learn after a couple times lol.

The lower intake manifold gaskets are NOT reusable......
What this means is that every time the lower intake manifold is removed, the lower intake manifold gaskets MUST be replaced......both banks of cylinders.
The matiing surfaces (the surfaces that the gaskets are sealing to) must be clean....but free of scratches.....so don't use metal tooling to clean.
The lower intake manifold gaskets are to be DRY FITTED, meaning no added sealant is to be added.....just put them onto the clean and dry alluminum surfaces.

Thanks wis again for the reminder lol, but I'm talking Head gaskets. And the lower intake manifold gaskets I had just put on it should be fine as the vehicle hasn't even been hot yet. The intake gaskets I got come with a tube of adhesive to be fitted onto the head, left to dry, then instal the intake. I had done that and just started it up a few secs at a time before I had to tear it down to head gaskets again, both sides this time. The intake gaskets are still stuck on the head and are not leaking anywhere so I"m going to leave them be and just watch them closely upon the rebuild.

I found a piece of plastic inside #5 cylinder, no serious damage just a little noise maker. #5 and #3 do have water in them. It appears so far that dirt inside the head bolt holes kept the bolts on the #3 side from sealing the head to the block tight. Thats my theory right now still inspecting the heads for cracks and such.

There is oil in the cooling system ports around the cylinder heads on both sides, prominent along the bottom. I guess I should pull the block out and inspect for cracks... Oh well I'll get to clean the engine compartment up like I wanted to now lol.

I'll have some pictures soon, if anybody has any good ideas where to check for damage, or any theories on how I'm getting small amounts of water in my oil, and apparently oil in my cooling system plz shoot! I don't yet see where the oil/water mixing is going on.. I do see how the water is getting into the cylinders but as of yet no path to the oil is clear.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Did you inspect the head bolts to make sure they were not stretched or did you install new head bolts??

There is a FORD TSB that states that the head gaskets are to be dry fitted also.
1995 is the problematic year for head gaskets.
You might try buying new head gaskets and bolts through a FORD dealership.
You can save money by buying them online from a ford dealership that has their parts department online.....30%-40% off list price are often possible.
I would STRONGLY suggest that you order using your VIN as there may have been mid-year changes....and your VIN will help them to make sure that you get the correct parts for your particular vehicle.

The thing with head gaskets that is tough......you are mating alluminum heads onto a iron block.
As alluminum and iron expand and contract differently as your motor heats up and cools down.....it is critical to do the job exactly correct.

Take comfort in knowing that a head gasket job is beyond what I have done.....so I am only passing on what I have read.
The cost of parts is minimal as compared to the labor......true it is not money out of pocket when you do the work yourself....but there is STILL a lot of value to place on all your time and effort (and the frustration when it does not work out).

There is a FORD TSB that states that the head gaskets are to be dry fitted also.
1995 is the problematic year for head gaskets.
You might try buying new head gaskets and bolts through a FORD dealership.
You can save money by buying them online from a ford dealership that has their parts department online.....30%-40% off list price are often possible.
I would STRONGLY suggest that you order using your VIN as there may have been mid-year changes....and your VIN will help them to make sure that you get the correct parts for your particular vehicle.

The thing with head gaskets that is tough......you are mating alluminum heads onto a iron block.
As alluminum and iron expand and contract differently as your motor heats up and cools down.....it is critical to do the job exactly correct.

Take comfort in knowing that a head gasket job is beyond what I have done.....so I am only passing on what I have read.
The cost of parts is minimal as compared to the labor......true it is not money out of pocket when you do the work yourself....but there is STILL a lot of value to place on all your time and effort (and the frustration when it does not work out).

I've done dozens of head gasket jobs, normally I don't take the time to do all the cleaning and painting but normally I'm working on other peoples cars that don't want to spend a fortune.

Actually the dealership and aftermarkets all use felpro gaskets and head bolts. They are all the same so I wouldn't buy from a dealership. I've slowed down on my pace putting this back together, I resurfaced both heads, run a tap in all the holes. It appears the problem was dirt in my bolt holes on the block. Apparently I forgot to clean the holes on my first assembly... oops.

UPDATE:

When I had the valve cover off right before the tear down, I didn't see hardly any oil shooting up anywhere around my rocker arms. I noticed that my low oil light was indeed coming on intermittently before tear down, and it wasn't low.

Would this be my oil pump or blockage? I had the motor flushed on the last oil change and I do change my oil very religiously. Is there a way I can test this oil pump? I have yet to take the oil pan off and look around I'm hoping somebody like wis has done this before. Any good ideas on how to check out my crankcase for blockage and oil circulation problems? The motor isn't knocking and there is no play in the crank pulley.

Thanks again.

On the top end I have all the holes tapped out now and I'm cleaning and painting my valve covers and exhaust manifold as we speak. I use aluminum acid on the heads to clean and shine up the aluminum.. intake too. I'll have plenty of pictures to post on job completion.

I did take a short video of me surfacing one of these heads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGhkB_eJpOg

If you can take the oil pan off to check the oil pump pickup screen, that would be a good idea.......however, at least on my '96, it is a lot of work due to needing to remove the "Y" pipe......which is the assembly that includes the catalytic converters......
If you remove the "Y" pipe.....support the front end of the flex pipe to avoid breaking the "flex" part of the flex pipe.

I am thinking that there might be junk in the oil pump pickup screen......the other option would be super worn bearings.......

If you have much coolant leaking into the cylinders.....you want to watch out for hydrolocking.......coolant does not compress like air.....
If you have worked on cars as much as I am guessing you have.....you know about that better than I do.

I certainly hear you on the time to super clean things up on other people's cars........that is more time....which is money out of your pocket.
Many folks don't realize.....most repairs.....Labor is the most expensive part.

Some have a oil level sensor....which is mounted on the oil pan above the oil drain plug......I do not seem to have one on my '96 3.8L.
The other thing would be the oil pressure sensor, which is located where you cannot even see it unless you remove the big alluminum bracket that the alternator and power steering pump are mounted on.
I have the oil pressure sensor (actually a switch) shown in a picture "a look under the power steering bracket".
I thought to take a picture showing it while I was changing the power steering pump.

I have not had my oil pan off........but it looks like it would not be a lot of work....EXCEPT for the "Y" pipe.
There have been a couple of posts about oil pans rusting through and leaking......so give yours a look.....because if you are going to go to the work of taking it off......it would be the time to replace it if you see significant rust.
I would think that they would rust from the outside in........if it was from the inside out.......then I would think that some other issues would show up long before it rusted through.

One trick that I do when starting my car up after changine oil and filter......I remove the fuse for the fuel pump.....and crank the motor in 5-10 second runs until the oil pressure light goes out.
This gives the oil system a chance to fully prime before running the motor.

Yeah I have thousands of hours in on car repair and painting and such. I've only done one crank and bearings rebuild though and that was back in 1999, but as far as brakes, exhaust, fuel and electrical systems, and heads I've done tons of that kind of stuff. Only thing is I've learned by doing, I always worked on my own cars I just pick up a haynes repair manual and go for it. Over the years I picked up other skills, my grandfather owns a machine shop and hes started letting me use it for all my jobs.

People that are on a budget bring me work, I don't work on many new vehicles at all unless its painting.

But being self taught I often run into things I haven't done before and need to seek other opinions and research on it. This van is a unique thing too, its half 98. Heck even the head has to have 98 bolts but 95 gaskets, its cobbled together by my brother who fixed it after blowing it up when my mom owned it. A good buy for 500 bucks, granted i've now put about 2 grand into repairs lol. But I'd rather do it all myself then I have a general idea whats wrong when it breaks down lol. Plus workin on cars is fun, though I prefer driving them.

Thanks for all the input I'm going to take the cat convertors off now, I'll probably take my sawzall to the back end I already have the manifolds off... I'll just weld the sucker back together.