Possible water pump leak

My 3.8 Won'tstart, er, Windstar is leaking coolant. It looks like it's coming from the water pump gasket, but looking at it from underneath, it seemed like the coolant may have been hitting the WP, running down and dripping off the bottom. My question is: is this indicative of a timing cover leak? I'm torching it if it is, unless someone wants it. A water pump I can deal with.

You will need to look around.....very hard to do as the coolant will have splashed around....and run over things......
In other words, tracking down a coolant leak is not easy.
That it is leaking external to the motor is a hopeful sign.
In the worst case......if it is the timing cover gasket.....I would put some Bar's Stop Leak into the radiator......the ORIGINAL pelleted version.
I recommend that you go to the trouble of locating ONLY the Bar's Stop Leak.....Original Pelletized version.
To make the Bar's stop leak easier to add.....loosen the lid on the bottle.....put it into boiling hot water (but not over the loose lid)....and let it warm up.
USE GLOVES.....slightly tighten the lid.....SHAKE to mix it up.
The, add to the radiator........the heating should liquify the pellets, making the mixture easy to add to the radiator.....
You might even drain to have the radiator slightly low......no more than 2" low......and then start & idle the motor for a while.....to circulate the stop leak through the whole system.
Otherwise....with a full system.....the concentrated stop leak......might be pushed into the overflow bottle as the coolant expands due to warming up.....before the thermostat opens to circulate the mixture.
In any case.....stop leak will make the overflow bottle contents look a bit nasty.
But.....it worked for me......and is FAR easier and cheaper than replacing the timing cover gaskte.....gasket was less then $20 last time I looked.....but the labor is MAJOR....and complicated.
I sealed my timing cover gasket (was only a very slight seapage) with the Original Stop leak.....and it has held for over 5 years and well over 100K miles since I put it in.

HOWEVER......another place to be looking around are the metal lines that connect to the water pump.......some have reported that theirs rusted and leaked.
I would not count on stop leak to seal rusted pipes at the top of the water pump.

Look at where the hoses connect.....as well as for signs of a hose leaking.

Then there is the water pump seal.....
Changing the water pump is a pain......the instructions call for undoing a motor mount.....and raising that end of the motor about 4 inches......so that the pulley will clear that unibody "frame" member that is right next to the water pump pulley.
Stop leak most likely would not seal the pump seal.....and if the pump seal is leaking, then coolant has gotten into the water pump bearings.....and they will not be lasting very long.

Thanks for the reply. I tried Bar's (Leaks, not going to them, although this vehicle will drive me to drink), and that doesn't seem to have done the trick. The pipe going into the top is rusty but doesn't seem to be leaking; that was the first thing I thought of.

My local high school auto tech program said they'd look at it for me, for only the cost of parts, so hopefully they'll be able to take care of it. I hate doing car repairs in the winter.

Scott

I had a leak that I just tracked down last night. The water pump was wet and I read a lot of horror stories about replacing it or the "front cover". Then I came across a thread describing how the bypass coolant tubes leak:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=657317&page=2

As it turns out, mine was leaking right where the metal coolant pipe goes into the water pump and I would wind up with puddles near the front passenger tire. I would have never guessed this on my own and the pipe didn't even look rusty. When I got it out, I discovered that the metal behind the o-ring was almost totally gone. Coolant was spewing out from the o-ring and running down all over the water pump. Failures with these pipes are apparently inevitable because they corrode from the inside.

Anyway, I thought I had a water pump problem but thanks to this forum it turned out not to be so bad.

I should mention also that the visible part of the leaking tube was dry. It wasn't until I ran my finger along the back of the tube where it goes into the water pump that I could feel it was wet.

So this past Saturday I decided to try and tackle it. The weather was nice, I had Car Talk on the radio, all was good. Until I actually started working. I'm fairly certain it is the pipe going into the top of the water pump that's leaking. Maybe not the pipe itsself, but possibly where it connects to the pump. That end seemed pretty easy to remove, so I decided to start with the other ends. The pipe actually is Y-shaped, so it connects to two hoses towards the rear of the engine (technically the side, but it's towards the passenger compartment). From up top, I could reach the hose clamps, but not actually get anything onto them to remove them. So I tried from beneath. I could actually reach up to one of the clamps, but couldn't get Vise-grips on it (not enough space to open them) nor channel locks (twisted my wrist into a position that just wouldn't work).

So I tried moving it by hand. It's a spring-type hose clamp, so I was able to move it a bit, but ended up inuring the tip of my finger, rendering it numb. It's stayed numb since (nearly 48 hours now). Feeling my frustration build, I decided to give up, rather than continue.

So unless someone has some advice about how to get these hose clamps off, or has a leprechaun that can climb in there for me, it's either going to the shop or to my local high school.

So this past Saturday I decided to try and tackle it. The weather was nice, I had Car Talk on the radio, all was good. Until I actually started working. I'm fairly certain it is the pipe going into the top of the water pump that's leaking. Maybe not the pipe itsself, but possibly where it connects to the pump. That end seemed pretty easy to remove, so I decided to start with the other ends. The pipe actually is Y-shaped, so it connects to two hoses towards the rear of the engine (technically the side, but it's towards the passenger compartment). From up top, I could reach the hose clamps, but not actually get anything onto them to remove them. So I tried from beneath. I could actually reach up to one of the clamps, but couldn't get Vise-grips on it (not enough space to open them) nor channel locks (twisted my wrist into a position that just wouldn't work).

So I tried moving it by hand. It's a spring-type hose clamp, so I was able to move it a bit, but ended up inuring the tip of my finger, rendering it numb. It's stayed numb since (nearly 48 hours now). Feeling my frustration build, I decided to give up, rather than continue.

So unless someone has some advice about how to get these hose clamps off, or has a leprechaun that can climb in there for me, it's either going to the shop or to my local high school.


sorry about your finger. i hope it heals soon.

I did mine when I did the work for the P0171 and P0174 codes. So my engine bay looked like this:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_UlT2GLhOL4E/S3jOM86H3GI/AAAAAAAACMM/lw-XZbZgTLM/s640/CIMG0532.JPG

that gave me enough room to get some channel locks on pretty solidly with enough room to move. Not sure if that is what you want to hear, but that is how I got it done. HOWEVER you can probably get away with just removing the cowling under the windshield wipers (its' only 6 screws and a few connections to unhook the entire wiper assembly and plastic cowl)

That might work. Thanks!

That might work. Thanks!

Make sure that when you re-install the cowl that you hook up the little plastic tubes for the washer fluid. There is also one or two (can't remember) electrical connections on the driver side. It's all pretty straight forward. Check out the relevant parts of this guide to remove the cowl:

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

Once you get your coolant y-pipe out: wipe it off, seal up one end and blow into the other. See if air escapes the pipe. There are actually two coolant pipes like this that can both cause leaks. The other one is under the upper intake plenum:

http://leckemby.net/windstar/16.jpg

On mine, it was the one that goes into the water pump. When I removed the rubber o-ring there was a hole behind it.

On mine, it was the one that goes into the water pump. When I removed the rubber o-ring there was a hole behind it.

Got the cowl off, and the cabin air intake duct, which was a big help. Getting the hose clamps off the ends of the y-tube was easy at that point. Then I went to remove it from the water pump, which I thought would be the easy part. Not hardly. The bolt came off easily, but the pipe won't budge. I tried holding a piece of wood against it and whacking it with a rubber mallet to try and turn it, and nothing. I tried whacking it at the Y end to try to turn it. Nothing. I tried lifting, prying, everything. It won't move so much as a micron. Any ideas?

BTW, thanks a lot for the suggestion about removing the cowling. That, and removing the cabin air duct, made all the difference in the world.

As it turn out, there was a bracket holding the pipe in place. I removed that easily, but the flange holding it to the water pump has so far proven a tougher nut to crack. I tried dousing it with WD40, heating the water pump, all to no avail. The pipe itself broke away from the flange, so I don't have as much to work with, but I can at least grip it with channel locks now. Of course, that hasn't helped. It's still stuck. Any ideas? I soaked it with WD again and I'm going to let it sit overnight, since I have to get the replacement pump from the dealer anyway.

As it turned out, I was never able to get the remains of the top pipe out of the water pump. While prying on the pipe, I chipped a piece out of the top opening of the pump, so I decided at that point I should just replace it.

So I did. It was probably 14-16 hours of work total, but I did it. Overall, no major problems except when lowering the engine back down, I had some trouble getting the mount bolt to go into the hole in the subframe. I solved that by prying the mount itself into position and lowering the engine. Overall, it wasn't that difficult. It was just a lot of work.

Thanks again to all who offered advice. I couldn't have done it without you.

Yikes! I was reading this post looking for helpful hints on how to get my water bypass ("Y") tube out of the water pump, as it seems welded in there. I don't have the heart to do the water pump like splumer had to. So, fingers crossed... I'll try to remember to post back if I find anything that works.

Yikes! I was reading this post looking for helpful hints on how to get my water bypass ("Y") tube out of the water pump, as it seems welded in there. I don't have the heart to do the water pump like splumer had to. So, fingers crossed... I'll try to remember to post back if I find anything that works.

I just performed this repair and my tube was stuck in there as well. I was able to pry up the bracket that bolts to the water pump and that gave me some room to wiggle the pipe back and forth enough that I could pull up and twist/wiggle (using vice grips locked on to the tube) until it came out.

Reading on, I learned about the second, almost hidden, bolt. Once I removed that, the tube pulled out with just a little wiggling. ::grins sheepishly::

Reading on, I learned about the second, almost hidden, bolt. Once I removed that, the tube pulled out with just a little wiggling. ::grins sheepishly::


Lucky! Even after I got the pump out, I couldn't get the remains of the tube out. Bad design, that. I don't know why they couldn't have used a hose instead.

I did the bypass tube repair yesterday. It took me about 1.5 hrs. It is easy if you first remove the cowling/wiper motor assembly and the cabin air intact duct. There are two bolts to remove, one on the top of the water pump, and the second in the back on the power steering pump. After that remove the hose clamps and the flexible hoses, with a little wiggling it should come out easy. The part cost $58 at the local ford dealer.

BTW- Some have posted they have brown cooling water, this is likely from corrosion of this tube and lower tube that comes out of the water pump.