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1998 3.8 Windstar coolant, electrical, missing


fix_her_myself
02-19-2010, 08:36 AM
I bought this Windstar from my brother who bought it new, he had just replaced the motor. However the motor is actually a 1998 with 1995 heads! I have driven it for awhile, first electrical stuff started happening. I'm just going to give a direct problem list with fix or without if I didn't fix.

The headlights out of their own accord went from not daytime running to daytime running, only the parking lights also come on!!! But after turning engine off 1 minute later they shut off so I did nothing.

Air conditioner clutch fails, belt breaks, wraps around the crank pulley, and breaks the crankshaft sensor killing the van dead. I got a passer by to pull me home, got the sensor, a belt, a compressor and fixed that.

Alternator fails,

Replaced

Next I noticed intermittent heating issues, with smoke coming out of the exhaust and slight miss. I took the front head off where I had found the problem, I surfaced the head in my shop only took about 6 thousandths to surface it true, replaced head gasket and installed.

Next the heater starting cutting out, the gate is working, the heater core would get cold. More and more pressure in the top radiator hose.

Found a faulty water pump, replace, replaced thermostat. Found rear heater core has a very small leak on the return side, I plug off the hoses going to that heater core.

Now heater does not work at all, the engine misses terribly and makes popping noises real bad cold... but bad hot even. Wipers and flow control on the fan blower quit working. Coolant just disappears from the system but no visible leaks, small amount of white smoke on starting cold engine but not hot.

I installed a flushing system, I flushed the cooling system, I bleed the air out of the engine. I drive the vehicle over 10 hours to ensure I have bleed enough, during bleeding I added over 20 quarts to a system that supposedly holds 12 lol. No visible leaks, but the overflow tank goes up but never overflows. And the engine never overheats or gets over normal.

No change only the heater works for the first 15 minutes of operation. Still appears to be too much pressure in the top hose, not certain but either at partial open or near being open you cannot compress the hose together more than 3/4 an inch with a firm grip.

I did find a broken vacum line, but the miss at high speed tells me its not the problem. EGR valve isn't problem.

I did not take the intake manifold off when I replace the head gasket because I did not need to it was just the front head. However I am wondering if the intake gasket near the leaking cylinder might be letting air in, thus pushing the missing coolant into the resevoire.

I know you guys are thinking junk it, but I have no choice, and I have all the tools and ability to fix it myself. I just want to attack the correct problem this time!!!

What do you guys think intake or am I missing something? Is there a way I can check this? I will never ever buy a ford van again!!! They shouldn't even put these things out!

tempfixit
02-19-2010, 01:52 PM
You need to do a coolant pressure test to start with. Compression test and/or clyinder leak down test.

I have not worked on vehicles but I am interested as to how you can take a clyinder head off a engine to resurface without taking a intake manifold off???

wiswind
02-19-2010, 03:11 PM
Give the "general information" thread a read.
2 common leaks....front cover (timing cover) gasket and lower intake manifold gaskets.
I don't see a head coming off without removing bolts for lower intake manifold.
Lower intake manifold gaskets are NOT re-usalbe.

Both the timing cover and lower intake manifold gaskets are common failures.....AND can cause loss of coolant with not external leak......they can leak into the motor oil (into crankcase) and the lower intake manifold gaskets can leak into the intake.....which is then drawn into the cylinder(s)........as well as leaking into the crankcase.

Coolant leakage into the crankcase can ruin the bearings in the motor (coolant is NOT a good lubricant).

I also don't see how a 1995 head would fit onto a 1998 as there is a MAJOR difference.....there are 2 intake ports for each cylinder in the heads for 1996 and newer.....1995 did NOT have the Intake manifold runner system.
Here is a picture of the motor on my '96 3.8L with the lower intake manifold removed.
Maybe a 1996 head?......I don't know if they fit or not....but would be more similar.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2068738120011220610nnxLsy

If you have too much pressure in the upper radiator hose.....then the first thing that I would check would be the radiator cap........those are cheap.

No heat.......the coolant flows through the heater core ALL the time.....you control temperature by moving a "door" that controls how much air moves over the always hot heater core.
As you have heat.....then loose it while driving leads me to think that the heater core is not clogged.......which leaves the other common cause of no heat (and also overheating motor) which would be air in the system.

EGR valve is quite reliable....but the DPFE, which measures the EGR flow is a common failure item.

Of course....there is always the possible problem(s) introduced during the motor swap......very easy to have a problem.....many wires, wire harnesses, connections to make.....and vaccum lines....and parts to move from old motor to new motor.

fix_her_myself
02-19-2010, 08:58 PM
Update:

I took a piece of vaccume line about 3 feet long, held one end to my ear and stuck the other end along the lower intake gasket... I heard lots of air around the same cylinder that had been getting water. And it is getting small amounts of water now, a one hour drive probably loses one quart to overflow tank, one quart to the intake. I always forget that lower intake gasket at the parts store... I tried to reuse it. uber fail

And this motor did not come out of a windstar I was told but I don't think it would matter, the 3.8's should be setup the same as far as machined parts you would think, the plate on the heads tell me its manufacture date is 1995, I assumed it was a 95 engine and the head gasket indeed is a 95. But all the ports line up close, some of the smaller ports the gasket does block a percentage of the port but there are no blocked holes or missing ports. However the 95 water pump did not match the one I took off, the 98 was the water pump. Messed up motor isn't it.

I'm pulling the intake off tomorrow I'll have a further update when I have it right.

wiswind
02-20-2010, 06:20 AM
It could have been manufactured in 1995, but been for the 1996 model year.
Toyota is selling a 2011 model year vehicle right now......so manufacture date vs model year date can be confusing.

However, the front wheel drive version of the 3.8L motor, from what I have read was only used in the windstar starting in 1996 (model year).
Using a motor from a different model year than the chasis can lead to some problems with wiring harness and PCM (computer) programing.
However, the 1996 through 1998 model years are quite similar......major difference once you go to the 1999 model year.

The 1995 model year was more prone to head gasket issues than the 1996 and newer.

The lower intake manifold gasket job is something one should only need to do 1 time.....the replacement gaskets are improved......so they are quite reliable.
Same for the front cover gasket.....although the front cover gasket is a major job.

fix_her_myself
02-21-2010, 10:59 PM
UPDATE:

Broke off a bolt taking the intake off... drilled and tapped that out lol I tell you I have bad luck.

This manufacture date is 5/95 so I believe the heads and the intake both are indeed 1995. I took some pictures to compare so I can be sure, and this looks nothing like your setup, my upper intake is a much simpler piece of metal. My brother says he swapped heads and intake from a 95. I took pictures of intake manifold as well, two of the water ports are blocked on the manifold I'm wondering if thats a screw up or if he as he says used the 95 intake that was with the heads. I still have to clean all the shavings that fell out of my towel and take my shop vac to all the ports so plz don't mind the mess, I will thoroughly clean everything before assembly. I spent most the day drilling and tapping, that is very tedious but I got all the bolt out and I saved 90% of the threads, getting centered took about 1/8 inch or so at the top, you can definately tell which hole the bolt was broke off in from the image, but I can still use OEM bolts thank god that hole u see is not 1/4 inch deep.

Another thing, I mistakenly said this van was a 98. It is not, sticker inside the door says its manufacture date is 6-95. Since most of the parts I have bought for this are 98 parts, I keep thinking its a 98 model. It is not, just some of the parts are and half of the motor apparently haha. What a chopped up windstar eh???

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq253/dhcracker/motor1.jpg

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq253/dhcracker/motor2.jpg

The head gasket failed on the front passenger side or bottom left of the image. There are two water ports on the heads, but the intake has no ports to match those, is that by design?

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq253/dhcracker/motor3.jpg

fix_her_myself
02-22-2010, 12:35 PM
You need to do a coolant pressure test to start with. Compression test and/or clyinder leak down test.

I have not worked on vehicles but I am interested as to how you can take a clyinder head off a engine to resurface without taking a intake manifold off???

If you look at my images, you will see on the 95 it is possible to merely take loose the bolts on one side of the intake manifold and the head is free. But don't do this, it makes it difficult to line up the gaskets this way. I had trouble in that and I suspect it would have lasted longer even with the old gasket had I taken the intake off and really gave it a good cleaning and a dose of permatex lol.

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