FML.. rip 420a

As some of you may know I have been workin on installing meth for the last few weeks. Had a lot of issues with MS controlling it. After about 2 weeks I finally get it to work the way it should, this was Tuesday I believe. So finally get it wired up and go out to tune the car some that evening. Start on low boost to tune those areas of the map first. Well I blew the exhaust gasket before the turbo, had a huge leak so I had to stop. Wednesday I go to work and then come home to fix the exhaust. Me and my roomate worked on it for about 4 hours and got it fixed. So we went out for a nice drive after that to make sure it was all good. The car ran absolutely great. Meth was kickin in and you could watch the intake temps drop. So this morning I go to leave for work. The car cranks but stumbles for a few seconds, then I hear a tink and it backfires and dies. I try to restart but the motor is locked. Called into work and started tearing it apart. Pulled the VC and all looked good, pulled plugs and they seemed to have water all over them. Motor still is locked up, wont turn forwards or backwards. After looking at it for a while I check on meth and the tank is empty. Oh shit. Pull the intercooler pipe and it has about a quart of water in it. I guess meth decided to keep spraying. Anyways so I believe I have bent a rod. Must be bad if I cant even get the motor to turn backwards.

I have no other car, school starts next week, and I dont have the equipment to pull the motor here. Im going to trailor it home this weekend, bout an hour away. And hopefully have the pistons out Friday or saturday. I do have plenty of money right now so parts aren't that big of a deal as long as its not over a couple hundred $. I just need them now. And I dont want to order anything till I know everything I need and make sure the rods are bent.


I know this is long so here are the cliff notes:

Meth hydrolocked my motor.

Sucks. Get that thing fixed and take pics.

damn dude thats the worst f'en thing that could happen to you right now.

Worst part is there is a pressure switch someplace near you that would have made this accident impossible.

yea it still hasn't come yet. I still have yet to figure out how this happened. The relay is working like it should so I dont know how the pump was able to cut on. I think it may have been running the entire ride last night but there is no way to tell. Anyways the damage is now done.


My buddy is bringing a trailer down tmrw to get it. We will take it to his house and pull the motor probably on Sunday. Order parts on monday and should have it back together by saturday. Also the clutch WILL be finished on monday so thats going in at the same time. Im hoping its just one or 2 rods. Anyone know if eagle will sell one rod?

Never heard of them doing that but doesnt hurt to ask

I shipped it as cheaply and hence as slowly as possible.

Just looked at eagles site and they do sell rods seperate. Hopefully only 1 or 2 are bent. Im planning on just changing the bent rods and putting everything back the way it was. Same pistons/rings/bearings as long as they all look good. Should I plan on replacing the rings? This motor only has 15k on it

Just looked at eagles site and they do sell rods seperate. Hopefully only 1 or 2 are bent. Im planning on just changing the bent rods and putting everything back the way it was. Same pistons/rings/bearings as long as they all look good. Should I plan on replacing the rings? This motor only has 15k on it

Can't hyrdrolocking cause damage to the cylinder walls because of the lack of oil?

It wouldn't be from lack of oil it would be from the rods getting bent and scraping the piston along the cylinder wall. I started tearing it apart a little while ago. Just taking off the stuff around the motor. I wont be pulling the pan or the head till Sunday we will have to wait to know the extent of the damage.

yea don't get too far ahead of yourself.

if oyu had just gone to the meet this would have never happened

Yea I know. It will be alright though. It will get fixed

if oyu had just gone to the meet this would have never happened

See! SEE! Karma is coming back at you now! :lol:

damn dude...

that really sucks...

my best wishes to your baby lol.

check out my thread im getting ready to post about my clusterfuck of a problem...

:shakehead

That sucks major balls mayne. The thing that makes it so bad was that it was from such a stupid cause. But....shit happens, thats life. And thats hot rods for you. Gotta pay to play, buy a honda for a DD.

So I got the car towed back last night, when I got it off the trailer I tried to turn the motor over and it actually turned over. It was locked up just before we left so I guess the chains pulling it down with it in gear put enough pressure on it to break it free. Going to try and start it today, I dont think the motor has any damage done to it now. There really wasn't but a few drops of water in the cylinders so it shouldn't be enough to hydrolock it.

So Im going to put it back together just enough to fire it up and see if it runs ok, then going to go ahead and pull the motor and check it out anyways since I got to put the new clutch in it anyways. Hopefully everything turns out good.

YAY! Hope it works!

great news I wonder what the hell happened I hope its all good man for reals!

No work done on it today. Ended up playing golf and cookin out with the parents instead. Tmrw I will fire it up to make sure it runs then tear it apart to install the clutch and probably a new oil pump. I never liked how that topline pump worked. Always lower oil pressure than the original pump. Ill keep yall up to date on what I find out.

did that pressure switch arrive yet?
are you goign to use it when you get it or still etl ms do it?

It hasn't arrived as of Friday. Im not sure what Im using yet. Im going to test MS again but if it doesn't work like it should Im going to put in it.

hmm i hope it didn't get intercepted

Stevie what the hell is up with this package?? You keep asking if I have gotten it yet and I how I still want to get it. And now they may have intercepted it. Great is the FBI going to show up at my house now?

If they do just say you had no idea what was in there at least you can be honest about that.

Just thought of something...."Death by Meth"....

Eh, I thought it was clever. Hurry up and get it running so you can send me my exhaust housing, lol. jk

so I worked on the car today. Put it back together just enought to start it, it cranked right up but had a knock, it only ran for a sec or two and locked back up so something is deffinately fucked up in it. Got the motor pulled out in about 4-5 hours. Haven't tore it apart yet. I will be doing that a little later tonight. The clutch was pretty messed up though. The pressure plate had stress cracks for me slippin it at the track and a rivet had broken on it and one of the two straps had come off. If that other one has come off it could have been bye bye bell housing. Anyways pics will be up tmrw.

damn that sux any ideas?

Not yet, only thing I can think of is a rod is bent. I am heading out there right now to take it apart so I will post something up in a couple hours when I figure it out.

at least you're motivated

at least you're motivated

Alot more than I can say about me. If my shits gone fuck up......its gone sit there for a while. Gotta punish it for acting stupid. Nah, its just cause im lazy, and get aggrivated extremely easy.

Alot more than I can say about me. If my shits gone fuck up......its gone sit there for a while. Gotta punish it for acting stupid. Nah, its just cause im lazy, and get aggrivated extremely easy.

Same with the aggrivated-ness. My fence is all dented from where I've thrown misc tools and parts at it. My shed is the same way also.

Well if I had another car it wouldn't be such a big deal and I could wait a few weeks before I fixed it. O and VG that housing will be there tmrw. (tuesday)

I got the motor all torn down last night, the only damage I found was 1 bent rod. I have already called eagle this morning and Im having a new rod overnighted here. So the motor should get put back together tmrw evening and should be put in the car hopefully tmrw night. My clutch disc is being assembled today so I should have that tmrw also. Planning on pickin up a new oil pump also. I have never liked that topline pump I put in there. Always had lower oil pressure than the stock pump did.

Hopefully all the parts come in on time and I can have the beast back running on wednesday. School starts on Thursday so I really hope everything works out. Im uploading pics now so they will be up in a few minutes.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/IMG00006-20090814-1912.jpg?t=1250520554

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/IMG00010-20090816-1642.jpg?t=1250520828

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/IMG00009-20090816-1641.jpg?t=1250520871

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/IMG00011-20090816-1958.jpg?t=1250520935

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/IMG00012-20090816-1958.jpg?t=1250520989

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/IMG00013-20090816-1959.jpg?t=1250521041

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/IMG00014-20090817-0936.jpg?t=1250521146

lol dude you fucked that shit up good! all of it!

Yes sir. Thats how we roll I guess

not as bad ass my clutch but bad

Ya dude that shit looks beat lol

Jesus H. Christ in a coffee can. Nice rod.

Just got word back tonight that the kevlar on the clutch disc was almost worn out. Which is really bad wear rate. Kevlar is suppose to last 5x longer than stock. Also ordered the rest of the parts I needed for it. They will be here in the morning so just waiting on the rod to get here is all. Also decided to go ahead and replace the master and slave cylinder while I am workin on it.

Awesome, maybe I can put mine back together wednesday if I get done painting my civic 2mrw. Anyways, wow, that rod is crazy.

But that clutch.....lol. Maybe I should post up pics of my Kevlar Zoom clutch that lasted 5,000 miles. *sigh* $400 down the drain.

NEW ROD CAME IT TODAY! I am super excited right now. Hopefully advance got my oil pump in and if so the motor will be back together tonight and hopefully I can get it back in the car. Car will be running tmrw afternoon. Just in time for school

damn dude fastest engine rebuild in history

damn dude fastest engine rebuild in history

hell yea thats we I roll dawg. haha

Havin a little trouble with the wrist pin right now install the new rod. Should be alright, i dont think the piston is messed up. Well Im hoping its not..

I'm jealous... That was fast and you'll probably have no problems with it after this...

So why did your clutch plate wear out so fast on you? Or did you already cover that in the thread and I missed it?

Yea you should be taking notes. The clutch was messed up from slippin it so much at the track that one day. Still not sure on the cause of the broken rivet but it must have just been a fluke thing. Pickin up the new clutch in about an hour.

Ok guys I have been super busy the last few days and haven't been able to update this. The piston ended up being on that that cylinder and I got the motor back together. I finally got the clutch about 4pm on wednesday. Got the motor in that night and everything hooked up. I did something very dumb and forgot to hook up the lines going to the oil cooler. I cranked the car up and had no oil pressure. After about 10sec I shut it down. Tried it again for about 3 sec and still nothing. Then I realized what I had done and got it all fixed. Cranked it up again and oil pressure shot right up. I believe the motor is fine now. I only ran it for a min or 2 bc I didn't have the radiator in it yet but it seemed to idle fine and it reved up fine.

Now for the bad. The clutch will not release. The pressure plate ended up being 2400lbs of plate load which is giving the car a really stiff pedal. After I found this out I tried to bleed the system some but it didn't help. So I missed my deadline and had to take my dads truck back to school. I think the clutch is fine but the hydrolics are old and not working like they should be. Even though it worked with the old clutch this heavy pressure plate may be to much for them. So tmrw I will be changing the slave and master cylinder and hoping that fixes the problem. My phone died so I didn't get many pics of the clutch but I did get 2. They will be post up soon.

Yeah I would try the new master and slave. Also Im not too familiar with the 420a hydraulics, but I know with my GST there was alot of junk in between the master and the slave, like an accumulator or somthing (I think thats what its called). I bypassed all that mess with a straight piece of stainless line all the way from the master to the slave. And even with the heavy ACT plate that I have in the car, It takes very little pedal to release it. Unlike the setup in my red car.

Ok here is a pic of the pressure plate. I did not get a pic of the disc I put in. You can see it has two diaphrams in it. This clutch should hold over 700ft.lbs of torque. And best of all no break in period. Going to replace the hydrolic system tomorrow so hopefully that will fix the car. I really dont want to pull that tranny out of this thing.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/08191706a.jpg

Wonderful. Welcome to my world where everything else breaks when your ready to start it. lol

Wonderful. Welcome to my world where everything else breaks when your ready to start it. lol

Ya but he broke it, built it, broke it, built it, broke it, and built it again WAY before you ever even came close to starting yours.

I see on the pic there's bolts on the pressure plate around the diaphrams. Does that allow to take out the inner set?

We had to use bolts to hold it all together. Rivets would work for some reason. I don't remember what was wrong with them. Just got done with classes today so I'm about to go change the hydraulics and see if that fixes the problem

So an update on the situation. Ended up havin to pull the motor again on saturday. Changin the hydrolics didn't help much. It made the pedal a lot softer, also made a longer slave rod for it. None of which released the clutch. So ended up putting 90/1000" worth or washers under the plate. Got everything running today and the clutch does release and the car is drivable.

The bad: Putting those washers under the plate lifted it to much and now I have lost all of the plate load and the clutch slips when you boost the car at all. So basically the new clutch is worse than the other one. This was pretty much the last option we had for a zoom clutch so now Im buying an ACT 2100 pressure plate and using that with my flywheel and disc I have now. ACT disc suck so Im not using theirs. So the motor is coming back out in about 2 weeks to get it changed again. :(

On the plus side we did have the motor out the car in under 2 hours. I think it was about 1hr and 45min. We are fuckin pros now. So I guess its not that big of a deal.

Wow that sucks.

Isn't that clutch that I have a 2100 plate? You should buy it.

wasn't yours a 2600?

Dave which plate are you talkin about? The 4g63 one wont work but I will take the 420a plate. :)

Dave which plate are you talkin about? The 4g63 one wont work but I will take the 420a plate. :)

For some reason I read something totally different. I was talking the 4g63 I got laying around. Was too early I guess. My bad.

Ok so ACT does not make a 2100 pressure plate for the 420a. So Im going back with the 1400lb zoom plate with this new disc I just put in. I will find out how much this combo should hold in a few days. The 2400lb plate thats in the car now may be getting fixed and set aside for future use if I end up tearing this new clutch up. So the motor will be coming out in 2 more weeks if the clutch holds up that long. I have to baby the hell out of it to school and back cause it will slip if you give it even a little throttle.

dude...i feel your pain...im babying mine back and forth to class...to keep from knocking...

well, since i MAY end up having to rebuild mine as well, can you link me perhaps to a good walk through thread of the process...

i mean ive pulled engines before, but id like to see a step by step process for my particular car, so as to make it go by faster lol...

see my whole problem is, im not quite as seasoned as you guys are at this...and by myself, i couldnt tell if i need to rebuild it int he first palce, and im pretty sure if i got the motor apart, i couldnt look at it and tell if there were signs of damage, unless it was obvious...

but anyway, sry to get a wee bit off topic, but, good link to follow? if there is one

boost, just buy a Chilton's manual for the walk through and just do a hell of a lot of research before you take on such a huge task. I've never done it either but I have done a head gasket before so I've gotten into it a little but that was on a Thunderbird. I actually want to rebuild a 4G63 sometime and build it all up and replace the engine that is already in my car.