Holy smokes!?! I think I killed 'er!?! Please Help!!!

I'm afraid the title says it all. Can someone offer a ray of hope and guidance through this dark moment?

I have a 95 with the 3.8l engine with 130k on it. It had developed a problem where it acted like an engine miss, which I eventually diagnosed as a fuel injector being open all the time. It flooded the cylinder to the point that raw gas was coming out the tailpipe and the exhaust manifold and it was not able to fire. (Yes, it is possible to put out fire with gasoline if there is too much of it and that's what was happening here.) Anyway, I wound up doing several tests to verify the source of the problem and that there weren't any other problems related to it or what caused the computer to fail. Didn't find anything other than the PCM bad. At the tail end of my tests, I noticed some strange smelling, gray smoke coming from under the engine. It kind of smelled like hot oil burning off the exhaust, but I didn't know its source and assumed oil had dripped down somewhere from sitting so long and was burning off from the tests, or residual gas that hadn't burned was cooking off? I assumed if it continues, it will burn off when I get her back together and running again. Boy, was I wrong!!!!!!!:crying::crying::crying::crying:

I took her for a test drive, and like I said, there was this gray smoke coming from her, which I very soon figured out was coming from the tailpipe. I looked to be sure it wasn't blue. I still thought and naively believed that if I warmed things up enough and drove her enough, it would go away. :crying::crying::crying::crying: I drove for about 2-3 miles, and the engine oil light came on!?! HUH???!!!!! I know there was oil in it, because my son and I checked the dipstick just before I finished. So, I immediately pulled off the road in total disbelief and shut her off, but I hadn't completely pulled off the road, so I tried to restart it just to move just a little more. It wouldn't start, and it sounded NOT GOOD!!!!!! Like it had a hard time turning!!!!!! Oooo, I know. :banghead::banghead::crying::crying:

Then my wheels start turning, but I'm still not sure what exactly is going on. I thought maybe the computer was shutting down the engine to protect it with the oil light on. With all the other things the computer does, it sure would have been nice if it had.:headshake The other symptoms I had before total catastrophic failure were it seemed like it lacked power when accelerating, and it couldn't go past 60mph. When down shifting to accelerate, it had a hard time smoothly going back up through the gears. I thought maybe the "new" computer (used) was confused operating the trans. I wish. I checked if it had to do with the OD. Nope, that was working.

Anyway, I checked the dipstick and there was plenty of oil. So, for the moment, I was baffled. After letting it sit for 15 minutes or so, I checked it again, it was just fine.......but........there was a strange odor and feel to it. I looked inside the oil fill. It looked ok, but I sniffed there too.....Hmm. I think I have gas in the oil.........:crying::crying::banghead::banghead:.. .........from running it before the repair and doing all of those tests, pouring gas into the cylinder and washing out and passed the rings. :crying::crying::banghead::banghead: What's killing me, is that I could have skipped all of the engine on tests, but I wanted to be sure there weren't any other problems related to the bad PCM. ERRR!!! :banghead::banghead::crying::crying:

So, I've said my sad, sad story. Anybody have any good news to offer me or a way to get out of this? Would you confirm that I'm probably right and the engine is toast? The driving symptoms, low oil pressure and smoke seem to me to point to low compression, gas diluted oil, and thin oil washing back into the cylinder causing all of the smoke.

Where do I go from here without causing any more damage, if I can even recover the engine from this? Originally, I thought just change the oil and filter and then try it, but I didn't like the idea of cranking it again when it previously sounded like it was having a hard time cranking. I'm thinking of squirting oil into each cylinder through the spark plug holes and let it sit awhile, but I don't know how long. Maybe then crank it with the plugs out, repeat I don't how many times and then repeat with the plugs in, during which with the fuel injectors/fuel off. Is there any particular oil that is better or meant for this? Wouldn't I want something really light to start with and then maybe go to thicker oils?

Well, I'm out of thoughts, and maybe even my mind. I might take some extra medicine tonight to help with my latest source of depression. :( :crying: :headshake :screwy:
Your help would be very greatly appreciated!!! :)
Thanks!!! :)

Well, of course I would not try to drive it.
If it needs to be moved.....have it towed.
A oil and filter change would be in order.
Check over the spark plug for the cylinder that had the open fuel injector to make sure that it is not fowled.
Maybe then, disable the fuel pump and crank the motor for a short time.....to turn it over without running it.
Check oil and coolant levels and try to start it and see what happens from there.....but don't go for any drive........just run it for a short time to see how it does.
If it seems to run fine....maybe you are OK.....if not....then you may still have a problem.....that needs checked out....like a compression test of each cylinder.

If it runs OK......then perhaps another change of oil after that short run.....using that first oil change to rinse things out.....

New spark plugs may be in order if they are not new.....

Some fuel rails have safety clips that hold the tops of the injectors snug to the rail. If yours is this way ...?? ... you can lift the rail, clips & injectors and all, away from the heads; energize the fuel pump ... and look to see if you have any super-injector-leaks. Be careful if you do this! The engine box must be stone cold ... and even so its best to have fire exting'er closeby! Be careful not to drop anything down in the injector holes.

Some fuel rails have safety clips that hold the tops of the injectors snug to the rail. If yours is this way ...?? ... you can lift the rail, clips & injectors and all, away from the heads; energize the fuel pump ... and look to see if you have any super-injector-leaks. Be careful if you do this! The engine box must be stone cold ... and even so its best to have fire exting'er closeby! Be careful not to drop anything down in the injector holes.

Uh,,,,,,,,,you missed my point. The injector problem is fixed by replacing the PCM. It was shorted to have one injector on all the time while the others worked fine. I originally thought it was the injector that was bad, but soon realized it wasn't and it was the PCM. With the new PCM, all hints of misfiring and rough running vanished. The problem is I believe that so much gas got past that one cylinder's piston rings, that the oil became too dilute and consequently created the incredible amounts of gray tailpipe smoke, lack of power due to compression loss, and low oil pressure due to thinned down oil, finally resulting in engine shut down and hard turning with starter.

That's the problem I now am dealing with. How to, if at all possible if it's not already too late, res erect it in its present state of washed out oil and possible cylinder and piston and rings damage without a rebuild or engine replacement.
Thanks

Yeah, I understood. I just thought my write-up would help if the question arose again.

As far as your remedy, I think your concern over oil quality is warrantied. I would just refresh the oil and give it a go.

I would also pull an oil sample to send to Blackstone just to get an idea of lubricity of the current oil in crankcase.

How many miles do you think you drove, with the skipping condition, to get where you are now? I wonder just how much gasoline you have in the crankcase.

I aree to test the compression.
I've you check the engine's codes?
Yes, it can be the rings.

Have you used fuel treatment before having this problem, like injector cleaner?
If not, don't use it.

The oil light warning indicated low oil pressure. You had sufficient "oil", so there was either no flow coming from the pump, or there was insufficient resistance to the flow of whatever liquid the pump was pumping.

Of course, if the liquid is not oil, and is much thinner than oil you might get a warning. However, if there was excessive engine wear from running it without lubrication, then this could also cause the low oil pressure warning.

A difficult start indicates that somehow the friction is very high. I'm not sure if there is an explaination that leads to an "easy repair". Sometimes over heating from lack of lubrication can result in a broken ring, which can lead to lots of friction from the pieces.

Checking the compression would be good, but as long as the starter can't turn the engine, that's going to be difficult at best. Sometimes taking the spark plugs out as you mentioned will help to make turning it over easier if you want to do a compression test. Make sure that everything is clean to keep the plugs from sucking dirt into the cylninders. If you check the compression, do it before and after you put oil in the cylinders, to check the rings. I'd use the same motor oil you use in the crankcase.

I'm wondering what you heard when you said it didn't sound good as you tried to restart it.

For now, I will share the latest news and developments. I towed her home, a fiasco in itself with the wife. Need I say anymore? The brand new tow straps didn't help any when breaking three times. Cheap Homier crap!?! 4500 lbs sass! Had to use a chain to finish the job.

Anyway, tested it with a breaker bar to the crank to see if it would turn. It did. So, I drained the oil and filter and put in some decent used oil and returned the filter. I figure if she's toast it won't matter. If she's ok, then I'm just using the used oil and original filter just to do a flush rather than waste new stuff with the gas in the oil. I measured what I pulled out. It was right at 5 qts, which is what I put in at oil change, but there was a lot of mileage on that oil, and it definitely had a fair bit of gas in it.

She started up fine, sounded fine. I started her up and off several times to play it safe before I let her run for awhile. I went ahead and drove her around out place and then the road. Well, it's not sounding too good. At around 2500rpm to 3000rpm, she started to really knock, so I brought her home, put her in the barn and closed the door....no but that's about where I am with it. After the drive, at idle with the hood up, you can hear it knock.

A mechanic friend listened to it today and thought, hopefully it's the rod bearings. Possibly the bottom "skirt" of a piston broke off, not so good. Could also be bad crank bearings. If any bearings spun, than crank is toast as that will usually score the bearing surface of the crank that the bearings bear on.... So, that leaves shooting her or engine swap he suggested. I'm not up for that myself, and for those who have followed Searcherr's debacle that still hasn't been fully resolved, that's really got me scared off from that idea.

My friend thought a decent used motor shouldn't cost a whole lot. What is anyone's experience with that, and do you recommend changing the trans, rebuild it, take the one with the engine? Costs? The van is in really decent shape with 150k on it. All of this would be easier to take, if I didn't also have ALL of my other vehicles having major issues, apart, etc. :shakehead :banghead:

To address some of the issues you folks asked, when I tried to restart it after the oil light came on, it sounded like the starter motor was struggling to turn it. I took that as a sign that engine damage might have or was occurring. My friend thought the hard turning over the engine may have been due to "vapor lock" as there may have been too much gas in one or more cylinders? His explanation, even if wrong, fit well as turning it with the breaker bar and starter after it had a chance to loose the excess gas was no longer difficult but normal.

I follow you better 12 ounce on the fuel injectors and rail explanation. With my original investigation into the fuel injector always on problem, I had to pull the rail. Pulling all of them at one time would be nearly impossible as pulling just the one was hard enough. On the 95, you have to pull the upper intake, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah, big pita. So, for now, I'm not in any hurry to try your suggestion, as I'm hoping all I have to deal with for now is the bottom end. But, I certainly could pull them one at a time and then reinstall them on the rail to check them out while cranking it. If one were to do that, should the injector holes be stuffed with a rag so that debris doesn't get sucked in? I would think so. One could pull the plugs so that no vacuum is drawn, but those back plugs are a real pita to get to just for a test.

Guess who's here? Mr 95 Windstar Extraordinaire (now thanks to ya'll - lol).

I'm damn upset to here about this man.

Here is what you face:

1. Keeping current engine & pursuing fixing it
I don't think this option is worth your time and money due to the age and defective nature of the 95 3.8L engines. You know you have mechanical noise, you know you have low oil pressure and you know metal has likely rubbed around without proper lubrication for XXXX miles. To try to cover all that might've ruined inside, to me isn't worth it.

If you want to pursue - You most certainly need to do a compression test on each cylinder. We can find out what the numbers should be later (I have'm), but most importantly this test has to be done while the engine is warm for valid readings. Crappy part about that is getting to each spark plug hole while this engine is warm is a real doozy without burning off your skin to access the rear bank. You'd have to remove the cowl stuff before warming the engine, then remove the spark plug wires and plugs, pull the EEC relay out, install the compression gauge, crank it for 2 or 3 seconds, cut it off, look at the compression gauge and write down the result for each cylinder. Personally I'd only remove the spark plugs 1 at a time as I test each. The manual says to remove all at once, but I don't see the reason for that other than to have them all out of the way for convenience.

When I had the 1st remanned engine put in the engine was making a loud tapping sound due to low oil pressure and the light came on for it too and the sound was only apparent when the engine was warmed up fully. It was discovered once I had the suckers take the engine back after threat of lawsuit, that a lot of the clearances in the engine were at their limits. I am not sure if what I heard was knock or not, but to me it sounded like loud engine tapping. A replacement oil pump did nothing for this prior to knowing about the clearances.

2. Put in a USED engine and take a chance with no maintenance
Recommend www.car-part.com (http://www.car-part.com) - visit the cheapest price results page and find the lowest mileage engine you can find and size the junk yard up to see if you "feel" like they've taken care of the stored engine. I've seen engines as low as $400 for this year Windstar. The biggest concern here, and it is a huge one, is the defective head gaskets in early year Windstars.

3. Put in a USED engine and do the maintenance
Using same web site as #2 get an engine cheapest/lowest miles and replace the head gaskets with the new MLS ones from FORD. Also replace water pump and anything else old and hard to get to without dismounting or disassembling the engine. Now's a good time for doing a radiator flush and installing a tranny cooler too since removing the radiator requires dismounting the engine, though some size tranny cooler's might not require removing the radiator.

4. Put in a REMANNED engine
If you want to keep the Windstar, avoid a new note and the rest of it is in good shape and has had maintenance kept up with it, then honestly this is what I'd do. I can call out Jasper immediately as being the best option from my experience, but I also have names of other companies that I looked at carefully that probably would've been fine too (and cheaper). I can tell you without a doubt, to NOT GO WITH ATK (or VEGE) for this engine.

The experience I have had, that is still ongoing yet near its end, with my engine installation was due to many shop HUMAN mishaps and not the 2nd new engine itself. The biggest problem with putting in a remann'ed engine is that there are too many components touched by human hands during the project and though the hands touched them to take them off the mind's don't remember to put them back on at all or the proper way they should be installed. Patience comes into play as well as I can easily see a shop doing an engine installation wanting to rush it along as some point to save on labor hours so they can bill you for more and work less. So you have to weigh your shop's skill and patience in this option.

In order for this option to work for you, you have to talk to the shop in depth & discuss/control every element of the reman engine install project, while also balancing whether or not you are overwhelming them with too many variables. My shop can't handle more than 1 or 2 variables at once. Make sure they do not try to brand your Windstar an Aerostar in their paperwork, ensure they have the right engine size down and right year. All of that was wrong at my shop. It was called a 95 3.0L Aerostar when its a 95 3.8L Windstar. Even now they have me in their computer as 96 3.8L Windstar.

The PCM wiring by the EGR pipe is a major issue that can be misrouted easily, you should only use Motorcraft or Autolite plugs or wires (no other brand is trustworthy for this engine as far as I'm concerned), obtain & gap the plugs personally, a new pilot bushing must be used, engine to tranny dowel pins installed for sure, rear PCV new and front breather valve intact and plugged into intake pipe (often missed), new water pump, new idler pulley and tensioner assembly with pulley & anything else hard to reach without disassembling a crap load of stuff normally.

5. Cash for Clunkers or just Get a new/used Vehicle
To me, this isn't the option for anyone unless they are rich or happen to have an abundance of cash on hand at the moment. It is often the option for many who just are bored and want something new for the sake of "newness" and new car warranty. You will inherit a note and pay on it for several years. New is nice and I admit that, but to me NEW isn't worth it. Something somewhat aged, but still in good shape is worth far more, but even still will add a big note to your life.

Here are these options in order of preference/advice:
4, 3, 2, 5 & 1

These options/advice are based on my debacle with my 95.

At most on option 1, the old engine is not worth time/pursuit and if anything is done to it at all, it'd have to be compression tests first before proceeding anywhere or trying anything else.

If it's a piston rods broken, I will be on the same advice as searcherrr, don't repair your engine. It'll better to replace the engine with a used one. But it'll be even better if you buy another Windstar. The 98 has the best engine, you can find one in good shape and negotiate it at 1000$ with same or less mileage. It'll be a good deal.

It'll be a good idea if you record the sound of your engine when it knocks, and post it.
I already experienced this kind of problem with my 3.8. It'll be easy for me to tell if it's a piston breaks or not.

Trippletdaddy....is your '95 the one with the chair lift?
if so....cash for clunkers options are limited......
The windstar BARELY qualifies at the 18mpg combined number on the Government website.......
You have to choose a replacement vehicle....NEW, that has a combined 20mpg on the government website to get the MINIMUM $3500 credit.
No Sienna for you!!!, No Hundai or Kia for you!!! You can get a Chrysler product with the 4.0L motor ONLY or a Honda Odessy with the cylinder management option ONLY.

I posted a "sticky" thread about the cash for clunkers program with a link to the Government website....with instructions how to get to their interactive tool......not real obvious from the home page.....
The interactive tool on the government website lets you put the vehicle you want to trade in.......and then enter the vehicle that you want to buy.....and tells you if it qualifies.....and what the credit will be.
USE THIS SITE BEFORE GOING TO THE DEALERSHIP......

Motor......if you get a "used" motor...... Perhaps a new front cover, aka timing cover gasket should be installed before it is lowered into your baby?.....much easier to replace with the motor not in vehicle.
The factory original front cover gasket apparently was garbage.......and the FORD (most likely good after market ones by now) replacments are improved.....so it is a 1 time job.

Head gaskets......as you already know, 1995 was the worst year for that in the 3.8L in the windstar.

Using a different year motor?.....not a easy go.....different electrical/computer stuff.......so best to stay in year as the '95 is unique (particularly with the 3.8L).

Rebuilt, Jasper and FORD would be at the top of the list.......and also expensive......with best warranty and likely to be around to back it up (3 years / 75K miles comes to mind).

I think that the JASPER website has a interactive tool to locate a installer in your area by zip code.

It sounds like you have a shop nearby that would be a good place to check with for a evaluation of your current motor....which might be a good first step.