Windstar Engine Blown

My engine just blown :banghead:. It's a Windstar 99.

I was hurry to pass this short green light, I push the accelerator a little bit (4000rpm), for a few seconds the feeling of power was very good, then suddenly the engine make an horrible sound like when 3 metal shelfs fall at ground, a very loud metalic sound.

So I reduced my speed, I stop. The big mettalic sound was still there. :banghead:

I was able to return home (1 mile) but engine shake at stop and it's about to stall. It misfires also.

I'm not sure yet what is the problem. Engine still running, but very bad. Maybe it's the crankshaft, crankshaft bearing, piston, valve...?? An internal problem obviously.

Maybe the fuel didn't burn enough fast, the engine make a revolution before the gazes have finished burning? Or the crank bearings fail? Not sure.


Before that, engine running quite good.

***My advice for all Windstar/Freestar owner, don't accelerate too much, nor rev up more than 3000 rpm. If not, you may loose your engine.***

So, never put the pedal to the metal or WOT.

The van has 144K miles. It's a 3.8L engine.

I check engine code, I don't have other codes that my previous P171/174 and P136 codes. No misfires code, which is strange.

The 171/174 indicates that my engine running too lean, probably a vacuum leak. The 136 indicates a bad downstream O2 sensor, not important.


Also, my oil pressure was a little bit low, cause I've a very small leak through the lower intake manifold. I don't know if it's cause a bad lubrication and the crankshaft bearing to fail? When I had the problem, the oil level was to full range. I don't put oil often.

I just recorded a video of the engine, we can ear its sound, so if someone know which problems is related to this sound.

The sound come more from the top. So I start thinking that it may be the valve, or the valve rocker arm.

Here's the video: Engine blown (http://www.geocities.com/serge_dell/engine_blown.avi).

Yahoo hosting s***.

I put the Engine blown video (http://decclic.qc.ca/usagers/028595/Documents/engine_blown.avi) on another website. Click on the link to view it.

I would check the oil pressure if a bearing is bad it will be low.
http://www.autopart.com/tools/toolsmain/tool/T_2001.htm
This is a picture check Auto Zone or Advance for a loaner.

Serge- This might be a long shot. but my '99 3.8 had a similar sound at about 76,000, but the sound would come and go and not be continuous. In my case a very weird thing happened: The plastic cage that holds the roller rockers and keeps them from rotating broke off on one end. This let the roller rockers spin around in a circle, and when they (2 of them) did this the roller no longer rolled on the cam. So it was non-rolling metal rubbing on the cam. You can imagine the sound it made. But I say again, the noise would start and stop depending if the rockers were rolling on the cam or just rubbing. Again, when they did make noise it sounded just like your noise. Cost about $2,300 for a shop to repair it.

I noticed toward the tail end of your video that the noise seems to indicate two separate, but similar sounds - just like my noise since two roller rockers were involved.

Something to consider?

Serge-

Sounds like a connecting rod bearing to me.

Glenn

Serge- This might be a long shot. but my '99 3.8 had a similar sound at about 76,000, but the sound would come and go and not be continuous. In my case a very weird thing happened: The plastic cage that holds the roller rockers and keeps them from rotating broke off on one end. This let the roller rockers spin around in a circle, and when they (2 of them) did this the roller no longer rolled on the cam. So it was non-rolling metal rubbing on the cam. You can imagine the sound it made. But I say again, the noise would start and stop depending if the rockers were rolling on the cam or just rubbing. Again, when they did make noise it sounded just like your noise. Cost about $2,300 for a shop to repair it.

I noticed toward the tail end of your video that the noise seems to indicate two separate, but similar sounds - just like my noise since two roller rockers were involved.

Something to consider?

Yes, I think I've probably the same issue. At 76K miles only? How can these engines got internal problem so soon? It's crazy.

Were you a little bit hard on the accelerator like me? Or it's just a misconception of the engine? Ford really screw up anyway...

Did you get the oil pressure light? I've to check the oil pressure too.

You used new parts I suppose? I'll find reconditioned used part to repair it.

Serge-

Sounds like a connecting rod bearing to me.

Glenn

I thought about that, but I just remember the misfire symptom. Check engine flash. So i think it's more likely the valves. If the valves are broken, fuel/air doesn't enter in the engine properly, and misfire. It reduces the compression also. The noise coming more from the top.

Tomorrow, I'll make a full diagnosis to be sure.

Serge-

Still say it sounds very much like a connecting rod bearing. Here is a test you can perform to narrow the issue down.

With the engine running - one at a time remove the spark plug wires. If it is a connecting rod - you will hear a noticeable drop in the volume of the noise when the plug wire on the offending cylinder is removed. This is caused by the lack of pressure in the cylinder when no combustion occurs. If it is the roller cage issue - removing the wires should make no difference in the volume.

Good Luck-
Glenn

I remove all 3 fronts plugs wire, but sound was still there.

What is funny, is when I removed the 2 first wires, the rpm hasn't dropped. So the engine still had torque w/ only 2 cylinders working.

So I think it's the valves. I tried the hose test, to ear the sound of the valve, there wasn't a big noise difference between each valve, maybe it's at rear of engine.

I'll try the oil treatment to cure the valve lifter to see.

I also notice a small oil flake under the oil pan. It's the first time. Before I had oil leak only between intake manifold and valve cover. This flake may be related to the problem.

When I first heard my engine sound I thought it was on the bottom end, but I was confused why it would come and go. When I took it to the shop and we put it on a lift it was very obvious then that the noise was not coming from the bottom, but on the top side. This led us to question the valve train.

I am not saying what it is, but I am offering my episode as a possible consideration. The fact that it is continuous might indicate lower problems. If the van is on a lift you can hear the bottom end much better.

I just ear the bottom of the engine, and the sound is very loud, louder than the top.

If it's a piston/crankshaft related problem, why disconnecting plugs wire didn't reduces the noise? And why it misfires sometime?

I've also noticed water spill under the catalytic converter, muffler and exhaust pipe.
And oil under the oil pan (~4 ounces). I never had these symptoms before.

I don't know yet where the oil leak the most.

I start thinking that running too lean at 4000rpm as caused the destruction of the engine.

It's possible to let the engine work with only 2 or 4 cylinders, instead of 6?

Because if I have a bad valve or piston, and I remove the spark plugs of these cylinders pairs, engine should work w/ making less noise, right?

It's funny, I let the engine idle during 5 minutes, I rev up at 2000rpm sometime, the noise have reduced a lot.

Then I make a test drive, at cruise speed in city (30-40mph), the engine didn't make noise at all! It's strange, but good. Maybe the valve stop moving?, I don't know.

But when I come to stop light, the engine want to stall, I put in Neutral, I push gas so it keep that way, when it's green light, I push brake and accelerator in same time, I put Drive and I release the brake. So it go w/o stalling. But it jerks.

The engine misfire alsmost 90% of the time in this 10 miles (30 minutes) test drive.
I check the code, I got only the P0301 code and also the old classic 171/174 code which is normal for a Windstar 99-03.

So only cylinder 1 misfire???? Very strange.


So my question is: It's possible to make the engine run with only 4 or 5 cylinders, instead of repairing the valve? Well, I guess it's a valve problem.

So the engine will not stall anymore.

When I removed the plugs n° 1, there's oil deposit in it. So I guess, oil leaking through the valve to this cylinder, it's why it misfires.

So if I make the engine works with the plugs n°1 removed and connect the plugs wire to GND, so that current will flow to plugs 5, engine should work fine?

because I can't afford a valve or piston reparation, it's more than the car value.

I really feel like in 60s decade working with old combustion engine. Exept that I have automatic transmission. I wish I could have a clutch, it'll be easier to drive, instead of put N and D at each red light. It'll stop jerking.

It might be worth pulling the rear valve cover (over cylinder #1) to check the valve movement, valve spring, etc. At least you'd know what is the problem and if the repair is going to cost a lot or a little. Valve springs can crack or break, which is a relatively simple repair.

I've been watching this thread for the past week and I agree with the valve cover removal. I'd pull the cowl off and remove both front and rear valve covers. Take a look and see what it looks like beneath. It may be something simpler than a problem "down below". Have you cleaned the egr ports lately? I know before I installed an oil catch can between the pcv valve and intake that I used to get a fair amount of oil coming thru.

Piper

Thanks for this advice Tom.

I was able to go to work this morning with no problem. But when I want to come back, the engine make a very big noise, lot of blue smoke at exhaust, then I hear a break noise, like if it breaks, then a slow friction noise like a polishing machine, I also ear a sound like a broken piece of metal moving in the engine... Then the end, the engine stall and will not restart at all. And still make the polishing machine noise when I want to restart it.

Do you think it still worth to open the rear valve cover? How much time it take to make a such repair?

No, I didn't clean the EGR port.

I just think about my problem again, I think the engine is now completely to scrap and worth anything to do on it. I will see the valve just cause I'm curious, but I think it cannot be repaired anymore.

Serge,
You noted that the 60s engines were so much easier to diagnose but this problem should result in the application of the same procedures. It seems a bit late now, though. You noted oil on #1's plug but I haven't seen anything on the results of a compression test and driving it is, sorry to say, a sure way to destroy it. Now, no start but a whirring noise - probably blew the timing chain and that may be a result of the further driving when the true cause completely let go. Sorry for your problems.

If the starter spins, you can check compression. Pistons can be replaced and it has cast iron cylinder walls. After an inspection of the chain and replacement, you may be lucky. At any rate, a minor tear-down is likely in your future.
Marc in Atlanta
98 with 84K - head gaskets replaced at 80K.

Thanks for your input,

Now the engine is totally destroyed, engine doesn't spin when I start, it should be the sound of the starter that run free.

I'll not repair the engine, nor replace it, it's too expensive. I don't have the resources for that anyway.

I'm selling the parts of the car separately.

same problem engine noise, read the post and sounded like the best solution wascheck to pull the back valve cover off to check valve spring,,,any other thought or solution to this particular engine noise??

same problem engine noise, read the post and sounded like the best solution wascheck to pull the back valve cover off to check valve spring,,,any other thought or solution to this particular engine noise??

I don't know if you have exactly the same noise as me, but my engine made a VERY VERY loud noise, even louder that you ear in my video. It was a loud banging noise, you can ear it loud 800ft away from it. The connecting rod bearing was damaged, so the head of the piston hit the cylinder and there was a hole in the block. I burned and loose A LOT of oil. But I drive few miles and

the noise gone temporary, because the bearing run better for a while. Then finally, after 15 miles, I start the engine, but the bearing seized and locked up the engine and the starter blew off. The engine was wrecked anyway.

All that because my oil pressure was too low. Although I had good amount of oil, I think it's because of my damaged low intake manifold gasket, so the engine seizes up. Especially when I rev up to 4000rpm.

There was nothing abnormal in both valve covers. Compression was low because of the damaged cylinder.

That was my problem. Your may be something else.

You can always purchase a used engine from a junk yard.