Bad battery/starter/???????

97 Windstar 248,000. The last week it has had this weird condition where it would not start on the first crank sometimes (it would do exactly what is preventing it from starting altogether as described below), but fire right up on the 2nd attempt with no hesitation or problem. Never any problems besides this.

I just recently bought this thing and the previous owner knows NOTHING about any of the repairs or replacements that have been done to it.

Got home from work Sunday at 4:00 p.m. and shut the van off, 4 hours later I went to go to the store and it wont start. Heres the symptoms and results:

-12.1 volts with key in on position (cant check while cranking-no one available to help)

-all interior lights and horn, headlights, etc work fine

-when attempting to start car, it clicks just once from starter/battery area and goes quiet

-attempted to bump starter over and same results: one click

-cleaned terminals (which had alot of corrosion) to no avail

-other than the no-start initial condition I described above, there has been no strange activities by the van, i.e., starter (which I am used to starters making alot of noise when they are getting ready to die.

well with a 97 and 248k and no history the first thing I'd be looking at is battery age, starter age, alternator age. Following that it could be a relay thang but I'd be looking at the starter first. They're known to have a "flat spot" where, if stuck, will simply not turn over. Often times if you carefully tap the starter with a hammer it'll "move" it a bit and the starter will then start. I'd be looking at connections between battery and starter for corrosion. When it's running stop by a local auto parts place and see if they could do a quick evaluation of your electrical system. They usually will be able to connect an electrical system check gauge and give you a pretty quick and accurate idea of which components are bad. Be prepared though to replace the alt, battery and starter. If they're OEM, they don't owe you much!

Piper

I was having the same problem (also a 97 windstar) It would not start on the first try, and after a while, would not start at all.... I replaced the alternator today and It started and ran just fine...it was easy to access and worked right away.

Ok, so heres the update: I went out in an attempt to bump the starter with a screwdriver and it worked, started right up. Let it warm up completely and shut it off. Upon trying to restart, same thing CLICK from the starter. Right before going to work I tried to bump it again and it wasn't working. Just got the whirring noise from the starter. Went inside the van and she fired right up. Now its been 4 days and it hasn't given me a problem since. Now I'm even MORE confused....

If I could just lay my hands on it......I'm having a hard time following you. The starter does spin but doesn't engage every time? Or it doesn't do anything sometimes? It kind of sounds like the starter solenoid isn't working right, but it's hard to tell.

Without more testing type info, it's hard to tell, but something isn't right with the starter. Most definitely get it tested as previously mentioned so we can get some known quantities and what's working and not. You need to load test the battery. Measure the voltage as the starter turns. Measure the alternator output. The parts store should be able to do all of that for free. Some of that you can do yourself even by yourself if you have long enough test leads to see the display from the driver's seat. A simple load test you can do is to turn on all the lights, high beams, ac with fan on high with key on engine off and watch the battery voltage. If it's pretty stable (a slow decline is ok) and not nose diving, the battery is probably ok. If it seems to go down rather quickly, than no good. I wouldn't expect the bat volt to go below 9 volts at start. The bat volt should be min 13 volts, max 14.5(15) volts with alternator running. Your battery voltage at rest seemed somewhat low.

I'm kinda scratchin my head here too. When you say spin, do you mean the motor is turning over or literally the starter motor is whirring but not engaging the motor? if the latter, the starter is your problem. You haven't said if it's original or not but from what you've described most, I think you need a new starter.

Piper

I used my multimeter while cranking and it showed 12.4 while sitting, 11.3 sitting with radio/lights on, and 10.9 cranking.

The starter soleniod was whirring during the problem times, but wasn't actually engaging the starter. It has been a week and everything is normal as before. This is why it confuses me, the fact that it caused a no-start condition and now is fine.

I partially wonder if it is related to my Progressive "MyRate" device. For everyone that is unfmailiar with it, its a device that plugs into the diagnostic connector device and transfers data to Progressive in an effort to save money on insurance premiums. After I removed it, it has been issue-free.

Huh? Removing the device may have fixed your no start problem? Do you mean it would crank but not fire before the device was removed? That could be plausible. But I don't see how it could prevent the starter from turning or engaging even though it turns.

Oh, did you get lower rates from Progressive when you couldn't start it? You should have since there was a much lower risk of liability as you couldn't drive anywhere. Maybe they didn't want you driving? :-)

Some of us might not want our insurance company to know the maximum speed that we have driven at..................

While I am not aware of how this could impact the starting......I guess there may be a way.

I am wondering if you had a intermitten connection issue....corrosion/moisture related.
You most likely noticed the big, high current, power and ground cable connections at the starter/transaxle case.....nice exposure to road salt.
A corroded connection can look fine until a high current draw.

Remember that the neutral safety switch, aka Transmission Range Sensor (TRS) is in this loop also and can cause an intermittent connection...(it prevents the vehicle from being started in other than Neutral/Park).