need your opinion please!

Hi everyone, I'm new here, I need some opinions on why my car isn't starting, It turns over but dosent start. I'm getting a spark, the fuel pump is working, just replaced the fuel filter, checked the plugs, the battery is fine, its getting air, the compression is good too....soooo what the hell??????? am i missing something,???? I just did some work on it, new rad, new water pump, thermostat, and I took it for a spin a few days ago after I finished doing the work and it ran fine, but for the past few days I just can't get it going at all. like I say it turns over and it seems like it should work...??? when I pulled the plugs today after I tried to start it they were wet with gas, thats ok right??..
anyways what am i missing???? oh yeah its a 95 metro 1L standard -Robby

You said you were getting spark, but then said the plugs were wet with gas. This tells me you need to re-check the spark at each cylinder and also make sure the distributor is turning when cranking the engine.

Yep, Mullets right. Also, If the plugs are soaked try cleaning them off with carb or brake cleaner and trying again. They may be fouled. If they're soaked enough it will kill the spark.

Did the distributor turn? When you turn it over, is it spinning like a sewing machine? Maybe your timing belt has gone AWOL on you.

Jai

thanks guys for the response, yeah I checked and the distributor is turning and I'm definitely getting a spark, I removed each plug one by one keeping them plugged in and grounded the body of the plug to the engine, cranked her and got a spark from each one, so I'm definitely getting a spark, I'm definitely getting air and I'm definitely getting fuel because they, are wet and smell like gas when i pull them out, so what am I missing???? if the timing is off, will it not start, i did just change the water pump, and I'm pretty sure the belt went on properly and I also took it for a short drive after I changed the water pump and it started no problem?? so there must be someting i'm missing here..what do you guys think?

thanks guys for the response, yeah I checked and the distributor is turning and I'm definitely getting a spark, I removed each plug one by one keeping them plugged in and grounded the body of the plug to the engine, cranked her and got a spark from each one, so I'm definitely getting a spark, I'm definitely getting air and I'm definitely getting fuel because they, are wet and smell like gas when i pull them out, so what am I missing???? if the timing is off, will it not start, i did just change the water pump, and I'm pretty sure the belt went on properly and I also took it for a short drive after I changed the water pump and it started no problem?? so there must be someting i'm missing here..what do you guys think?

Compression test would be the next step. Should read about 200PSI in each cylinder.

Follow these instructions and to the compression test. You can buy the tester at wallmart for about $20. Report your wet and dry numbers back here.

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=24601

How could he be getting fuel to the cylinders and getting a spark and still
not have the engine kick over ?

He said on 11-4-08 that the compression was good.

An engine is designed to run....if everything is where it should be, then
it has no choice but to run - once it is getting air, fuel and ignition !

You haven't crossed the ignition wires, have you ? Easy to do.

Wrong firing order ?

I had some Butt-Head mix up my ignition wires on an old six cylinder Nash Rambler
30 years ago.

Lord - it wouldn't run at all.
Nice little trick to pull on someone w/o a hood lock.....

So - if it were me, I would check the wiring order again and then the timing with a TIMING LIGHT.

Maybe it is at 180 ° to where it should be (?).

Thanks guys yeah I'll check the compression again, I did do the head gasket sinse I checked it last, and also I think the oil light and check engine light stays on now, I know all the lights come on at first when you put the key in but the check engine and oil light stay on after the air bag light turns off, is this normal??

my air temp sensor was unplugged, it was flashing 23, I fixed that, it is flashing 12 now which is good but the thing still wont start! I'm picking up a compression tester tonight, I have a diesel one but the spark plug insert dosen't fit... I'll keep you guys updated, I really appreciate your help because I'm pretty desperate right now to get this car working again! thanks

What about the possibility of contaminated fuel supply?

Hey guys I did a compression test, I got 165 150 and 145, I also noticed that when I pull the plugs after cranking it, the first cylinder plug is usually dry and the number 2 and 3 cylinder plugs are always soaked with fuel, if one cylinder isn't getting fuel would this cause my car not to start???

Well, if you have fuel that smells OK, spark and compression it sounds like a timing issue. Does it buck and try to fire, or just wind over?? Did you check that the plug wires were on in the right order as Dr. Bill suggested? If so, wind the engine over until the distributor rotor points at #1 wire and see if the timing marks on the crank pulley align at TDC (or very close to it). Perhaps the timing belt as jumped... If so you'll have to remove the cover and reposition the belt.

Methinks you need a Head Rebuild....and to look at the tops of the pistons.

What I don't understand is, why back on 11-04-08, when you started this thread,
you said, among other things,"...I'm getting a spark, the fuel pump is working, just
replaced the fuel filter, checked the plugs, the battery is fine, its getting air, the
compression is good too....soooo what the hell???????" ?

The compression is not good......what lead you to believe it was and to say so ?

DoctorBill

Yeah the number 1 fires when its at TDC for sure.......and it fires in the right order.......when I try to start it it studders every once in a while like it is about to go, I also towed the car to the top of the hill yesterday and tried to push start it and it didn't go.......so are you guys saying that the compression readings I am getting are too low and not good enough for the car to start? I never had a problem starting it before even after the new head gasket was put on?? does low compression just all of a sudden stop a car from working one day without warning????

This sounds like one of those things that would drive a guy to drinking :)

So if I understand you right, you put it back together, it ran fine, and the next day it wouldn't start - right? Or did you do something else just before it wouldn't start?

I guess the next thing I'd look at is a) is it getting too much fuel? (faulty fuel pressure regulator) and the poor thing is just flooded to death? The fuel pump should only run for a second or 2 when you turn the key on, then shut off. Have you tried holding the pedal to the floor and cranking it for a 30 secs or so to see if it will catch?

Or b) is it a good hot spark, or a weak wimpy one? If you put a screwdriver in the boot and hold it away from a ground it should jump at least 1/4" or more. Since you live in a soggy climate a weak coil, cracked insulator, damp dist. cap or a host of other things can cause a weak spark.

With the compression numbers you recorded this thing should run. I've seen engines run with 50lbs compression - they won't run well or be very powerful, but they'll run. I'd be surprised if 20% of the Geo's on the road today had much more than you report unless they'd just been valved and ringed...

One last thought on fuel - if it's not getting enough you could try squirting starting fluid into the injector body while someone else cranks it over (shouldn't take much) - if this makes it fire you've got a fuel problem; if not it's likely ignition. Just be careful with this stuff and don't get any body part (like your head) over the throttle body in case it backfires.

I'm running out of ideas here - anyone else???:banghead:

My metro ran fine up until the day it quit....sound obvious, but it stopped working
just like that!

All this is back in my threads about fixing the engine - see post script.

My number one exhaust valve burned thru and it wouldn't start or run....see photo below.
The Number One Cylinder gave me a 60 PSI compression test value with the exhaust valve essentially
having two holes in it.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9430/cyl1valvests2.jpg

If all else fails, I'd pull the head off and look at the valves.

Also - my MAP sensor failed.

Looking back on it all - it seemed that my MAP sensor died at the same time
I burned out the Number one exhaust valve.

I wonder if the two things are related ?

Once I had the head rebuilt and got an exact match on my MAP Sensor, the
vehicle ran like a well oiled clock.

DoctorBill

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=611713
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t613410.html
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=645309
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t622536.html

Hey guys, Wetback1 yeah after I did the head gasket it ran fine for about 5 days, then I did the water pump and it ran fine that day, and then it was the next day that it wouldn't start. the fuel pump only runs for about two seconds, and I tried cranking with full throttle. I also tried with starter fluid in the intake. The spark from the plugs is definitely a orange color I noticed today, I cleaned the rotor button and cap with sandpaper, I just went out and grounded the body of the plugs keeping it attached to the wire, got my friend to crank it and sprayed a mist of gasoline on the plug while it was sparking, I got a pretty nice fireball but I had to spray it a couple times to get it to light, I'm gonna change the plugs and see if that helps, maybe its the bad orange spark??

If you are getting fuel, spark, and air - what is left?

Do you have a timing light? Check the timing.....8 ° BTDC I believe..

Otherwise - I give up.

Do you have a shotgun? 000 buckshot....

or

Leave it to a shop to get it running.

DoctorBill

Spark should be white or blue.

I agree with Woody - your spark sounds pretty pathetic. Like I said, pull the boot off the plug, put a screwdriver in it and hold the screwdriver 1/4" or more from the rocker arm cover. Have a friend crank it over and see how far you can make this spark fire - should be more than 1/4". If this result is crappy, try the same thing with the coil wire to rule out the distributor, cap and rotor. If it's still pathetic I'd try changing the coil first.

If the plugs spark at all they're likely OK, but you need to get a good hot spark to them first. Spark plugs don't just 'quit' like you described, the spark quality degrades and causes misfiring, particularly under load (high pressure).

One other thing to look for - lift the hood when it's dark out and have someone crank it over. Look for sparks dancing around the coil tower or distributor cap. Electricity always looks for the easiest path to ground...