01 Windstar Intake Manifold

01 Windstar, 130,000 km, 3.8L

I have completed the isolator bolt grommet repair a couple of months ago and yesterday I opened the top of the manifold for a looky loo and what I found was 1) clean EGR ports (yea) 2) lots of oil laying the bottom of the manifold, somewhat puddled, but more around the isolator bolts, not above that, just wet all over 3) small bits of what I would say were carbon flakes here and there within the manifold. The flakes were bigger than grannuals of sand, maybe 1/16" size.

1) should there be oil in the manifold or is it a symptom of something such as a bad PCV valve? I have never changed the valve before, but I did run cleaner through it and it does rattle wheny ou shake it so I thought it was good. I ordered a new today and will change it out anyway, but was curious if this is normal?

2) Are the flakes carbon and what does it mean? I traced the flakes back towards the MAF and saw that there was some on the bottom half of the butterfly at the MAF and there was some in the end of the hose from the PCV. I am guessing it is engine blow-by, but not sure and not sure how bad it would be or would I see this under normal circumstances? Also could this have been a result of arecent DPFE sensor failure which was causing the EGR valve to open up to the point of choking the engine?

Any thoughts would be appreciated....

01 Windstar, 130,000 km, 3.8L

I have completed the isolator bolt grommet repair a couple of months ago and yesterday I opened the top of the manifold for a looky loo and what I found was 1) clean EGR ports (yea) 2) lots of oil laying the bottom of the manifold, somewhat puddled, but more around the isolator bolts, not above that, just wet all over 3) small bits of what I would say were carbon flakes here and there within the manifold. The flakes were bigger than grannuals of sand, maybe 1/16" size.

1) should there be oil in the manifold or is it a symptom of something such as a bad PCV valve? I have never changed the valve before, but I did run cleaner through it and it does rattle wheny ou shake it so I thought it was good. I ordered a new today and will change it out anyway, but was curious if this is normal?

2) Are the flakes carbon and what does it mean? I traced the flakes back towards the MAF and saw that there was some on the bottom half of the butterfly at the MAF and there was some in the end of the hose from the PCV. I am guessing it is engine blow-by, but not sure and not sure how bad it would be or would I see this under normal circumstances? Also could this have been a result of arecent DPFE sensor failure which was causing the EGR valve to open up to the point of choking the engine?

Any thoughts would be appreciated....

As far as the PCV valve, I don't really know anyway to check them for failure. I have heard/read that they can still rattle even if they are bad. I usually just replace them every 15,000 miles or so since they are so cheap.

Did you replace your valve cover with the newer design when you did the isolator bolts? Perhaps your valve cover is already the newer design. From what I read the intake/PCV design permits oil to accumulate in the intake in the way you describe. I just did my '99 about two weeks ago and it was this way.

If the carbon flakes were not excessive in number or size, I wouldn't worry about it. They may have come from the TB since they tend to carbon up.

Bill

My van already had the new cover design, so I never had to change that. What did you mean the carbon could have come from the "TB"? The flakes were not particularly excessive, but I guess it is all relative to what you and I both think is excessive or not! There was less than say 5 flakes per inch, but that was in the worse area. For most of it, there was little or nothing. Not too many big ones, but I did pick one or two out easily by scooping them with a screw driver. I ordered the PCV valve from Ford as I had no luck previously with an aftermarket one. It didn't fit correctly. Anyway, I should have a new one in a couple of days and it was only $13. My manifold had oil in it the first time I opened it up, but I figured that was because of the grommet/gasket issues. I was kid of surprised to see a bunch in there now, but I guess if the PCV is not working, there will be excessive carryover, right?

My van already had the new cover design, so I never had to change that. What did you mean the carbon could have come from the "TB"? The flakes were not particularly excessive, but I guess it is all relative to what you and I both think is excessive or not! There was less than say 5 flakes per inch, but that was in the worse area. For most of it, there was little or nothing. Not too many big ones, but I did pick one or two out easily by scooping them with a screw driver. I ordered the PCV valve from Ford as I had no luck previously with an aftermarket one. It didn't fit correctly. Anyway, I should have a new one in a couple of days and it was only $13. My manifold had oil in it the first time I opened it up, but I figured that was because of the grommet/gasket issues. I was kid of surprised to see a bunch in there now, but I guess if the PCV is not working, there will be excessive carryover, right?

I hear you on the PCV valve from Ford. The aftermarket one I put on doesn't fit snugly. Every throttle body I have ever opened up had carbon built up on the back side (engine side) of the throttle plate. They tend to carbon up after awhile. I believe this comes from the fact that one valve cover has a vacuum hose (not the PCV) that runs to the intake tube. If your '01 is like my '99, it will be on the back valve cover. There is a vacuum line that runs to the intake tube just in front of the TB. My '94 Ranger also has this. In the old days and on race engines they use a breather cap to vent the fumes that build up in the crankcase directly to the atmosphere. Because of emmission standards, this is no longer done and that is the reason for the postive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve. Therefore both the PCV and the vacuum tube on the opposite valvecover vent the crankcase back into the engine to be reburned or picked up by the charcoal canister. The drawback to this is that it will carbon up the TB and intake because oil mist inevitably also gets sucked into the system along with the crankcase fumes.

When I was working on our '99 a few weeks ago, I got new isolator bolts and Oring gaskets. When I opened up the intake, I noticed it had already been done before, but they didn't change the valve cover. My lower portion of the upper intake also had oil puddled in it.

Bill

A new PCV grommet may help ... or RTV around the valve body, that's what I often do.

Yes, the oil on top of the inlet spacer is normal.

Here's some info on the ig pack:
.
http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c152800adf70

I do recommend using a genuine Motorcraft PCV valve.
A PCV valve is more than a check valve to keep flow in just 1 direction.
A PCV valve has a spring inside....as the vaccum increases, the "rattle" part presses against the spring more...and the opening gets smaller, reducing the flow.
Higher vaccum gives more flow through the same size opening.
The spring makes it possible for the opening to get smaller as vaccum increases, resulting in a more constant flow under varying vaccum conditions.

Too much flow.....leads to excessive oil being drawn into the intake.
This can lead to carbon buildup inside the cylinders.

Too little flow leads to not getting all the harmful vapors out of the crankcase, this results in chemicals building up in the crankcase.....breaking down the oil.....causing sludge issues....which lead to lubrication issues.

If the new Motorcraft PCV valve does not seat correctly in the gromet, you can solve this with a new gromet, as mentioned above.

I did use a Motorcraft one and it fit perfect. The aftermarket one I tried originally fit in the hole fine, but the outlet end to the platic fittings did not fit together correctly. They were off by just enough that had I pushed any harder I am sure I would have broken it. Instead I took it back and eventually went and got the one from Ford. Ford only charges more than double the aftermarket one, but what the heck, it was only $8 more.

I have a 2001 also and did the isolator bolts.. i did not have to replace my valve cover it was in spec to the replacement one.. I did however replace my upper intake cover. The one you pull off to look inside.. The baffle was cracking. It also was flaking. Not sure if it was the carbon or the baffle. But I ordered a new one.. Did run me 150.00 I think.... But the oil in the intake area is normal.. I hate it though. Just to me I think they could have done a better job to prevent this..

To my mind, the design detail that is missing is: some sort of seal(s) around each of the six air horns that protrude down into the lower intake spacer. The puddles of oil on top of the spacer are harmless ... but the oil that seep down to the EGR jets ... that's a different matter.

I have used RTV to effect a seal around the six air horns ... works very well ... but it makes later disassembly a bit tricky and difficult.