Cleaning Upper & Lower Intake manifolds
Triple G
03-25-2008, 03:31 PM
Hello,
I am in the process of replacing the lower intake manifold gaskets on my 1998 3.8L. What is the best way to clean the carbon and gunk fron the manifolds, the engine under the manifolds, and the cylinder heads - intake ports and around the fuel injector holds?
Thanks in advance
Guy
1998 Windstar
3.8L
I am in the process of replacing the lower intake manifold gaskets on my 1998 3.8L. What is the best way to clean the carbon and gunk fron the manifolds, the engine under the manifolds, and the cylinder heads - intake ports and around the fuel injector holds?
Thanks in advance
Guy
1998 Windstar
3.8L
northern piper
03-25-2008, 03:38 PM
I used lint free paper towels with mineral spirits to clean the plastic parts; I also used a hand held vacuum and a dentist pick to clean the crunchy carbon off the egrs first then acetone and a grey scotch (sanding) pad on the egr ports to clean them. In general, I tend to use the least harsh solvent first, then step up the toxicity as need be. Likely simple green would be fine on the clamshell too. Just make sure once cleaned parts are dry and there isn't any bits of paper, rags, dust etc.
Piper
Piper
97windstar3.8
03-25-2008, 04:17 PM
I did this before as below:
1: Block all of the whole by rag.
2: Then cleal all of the junk out the way by a sharp scraper(most Auto shop sale for 3$-5$ ).
3: use break clearner clear all of the surface.
4: drain oil
5: spray new oil to the balance shaft and rotor crankshaft .
6:install gasket and manifold.
7:fill new oil and start car
By the way, which brank lower intake manifold gasket you bought? from dealor(how much) or other place?
1: Block all of the whole by rag.
2: Then cleal all of the junk out the way by a sharp scraper(most Auto shop sale for 3$-5$ ).
3: use break clearner clear all of the surface.
4: drain oil
5: spray new oil to the balance shaft and rotor crankshaft .
6:install gasket and manifold.
7:fill new oil and start car
By the way, which brank lower intake manifold gasket you bought? from dealor(how much) or other place?
Triple G
03-25-2008, 05:00 PM
I have not bought the gaskets yet. Everything I have read on the forum says to buy from the dealer. I will probably do that as well. I am re-reading the posts to try to figure out everything I need to buy. (Gaskets, some type of sealer for the connection between the heads, block and manifold, thread sealer????)
I did check Auto Zone. They list a 3mm gasket set, and a 4mm gasket set. The price was around 56.00 for the 4mm set I think. I still have to check the dealer pricing.
Thanks
Guy
1998 Windstar
3.8L
I did check Auto Zone. They list a 3mm gasket set, and a 4mm gasket set. The price was around 56.00 for the 4mm set I think. I still have to check the dealer pricing.
Thanks
Guy
1998 Windstar
3.8L
busboy4
03-25-2008, 06:06 PM
I have not bought the gaskets yet. Everything I have read on the forum says to buy from the dealer. I will probably do that as well. I am re-reading the posts to try to figure out everything I need to buy. (Gaskets, some type of sealer for the connection between the heads, block and manifold, thread sealer????)
I did check Auto Zone. They list a 3mm gasket set, and a 4mm gasket set. The price was around 56.00 for the 4mm set I think. I still have to check the dealer pricing.
Thanks
Guy
1998 Windstar
3.8L
HI guy,
If you have not seen these two posts, here ya go. One is from Wiswind our moderator, and the other is from me after my job. We both have '96's but the process should be similar. I quote a few Ford tech specs in mine from researching the proper sealants etc. Also, read what I wrote about the gasket set: there should be a set available which will replace everything from the lower manifold up. As Wiswind's post indicates you should be looking for the 3mm if you have not had a head gasket replacement and/or head servicing.
Good luck on the job. Be organized, work carefully. My van was definitely a better runner for it.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=549207&highlight=lower+intake+manifold+gaskets
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=642149&highlight=lower+intake+manifold+gaskets
I did check Auto Zone. They list a 3mm gasket set, and a 4mm gasket set. The price was around 56.00 for the 4mm set I think. I still have to check the dealer pricing.
Thanks
Guy
1998 Windstar
3.8L
HI guy,
If you have not seen these two posts, here ya go. One is from Wiswind our moderator, and the other is from me after my job. We both have '96's but the process should be similar. I quote a few Ford tech specs in mine from researching the proper sealants etc. Also, read what I wrote about the gasket set: there should be a set available which will replace everything from the lower manifold up. As Wiswind's post indicates you should be looking for the 3mm if you have not had a head gasket replacement and/or head servicing.
Good luck on the job. Be organized, work carefully. My van was definitely a better runner for it.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=549207&highlight=lower+intake+manifold+gaskets
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=642149&highlight=lower+intake+manifold+gaskets
tartersauce
03-25-2008, 06:20 PM
Cleaning that crap out isnt fun and its all time. What ever works depends on how long its been cooking in there. If its really bad, pull the mana off and spray it with some CRC or WD every hour or so and let it still over night. The next day it will be nice and soft. Most people dont have the time to wait.. Ive seen them so bad in the cars, You wonder if they ever changed the oil.
Dont let any get in the holes, and I dont advise an air blower as some valves will be opened and it may push that crap on or in the valves and Clys.
If your van is well takin care of, and doesnt run HOT. You should be fine an Hour or so to clean it up.
My personal van 99 Im always checking things out under the hood. Its just my nature. Check belts, all the fluids, Flushing everything once a year no matter what the mileage. I rather have it break now or Me to see something doesnt look nice and fix it here then 100 miles from home.
"Coolant Heater TEE back there HINT HINT" If you see something else while your all apart, go get it from FORD. I dont use much aftermarket crap only because some stuff is really just a patch its so poorly made.
Dont let any get in the holes, and I dont advise an air blower as some valves will be opened and it may push that crap on or in the valves and Clys.
If your van is well takin care of, and doesnt run HOT. You should be fine an Hour or so to clean it up.
My personal van 99 Im always checking things out under the hood. Its just my nature. Check belts, all the fluids, Flushing everything once a year no matter what the mileage. I rather have it break now or Me to see something doesnt look nice and fix it here then 100 miles from home.
"Coolant Heater TEE back there HINT HINT" If you see something else while your all apart, go get it from FORD. I dont use much aftermarket crap only because some stuff is really just a patch its so poorly made.
wiswind
03-25-2008, 09:35 PM
When you go to the dealership to get the parts, include your VIN, in case there were mid-year changes.
The replacement lower intake manifold gaskets have been improved from the original......so you should not be faced with a repeat of this repair.
The pictures that I took of the lower intake manifold repair start here
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2529449750011220610bclxqN
Not sure if this will work....but the page with all the lower intake manifold pictures.....
http://rides.webshots.com/album/201931518cScpNK?start=84
Take note that my pictures....and my ranting are no replacement for a good repair manual (you will need the torque specifications for your year).
I am not a mechanic......so take my input with a grain of salt.
I would also get a new "crossover" or heater pipe.....shown in my pictures......the "U" hose on the water pump side comes with the pipe.
Also, get a 3/4" (well that's the size on my '96 3.8L) "quick connect repair kit".
The heater hose that connects to the driver's side of the upper intake manifold.....next to the thermostat has a quick connect. coupling.
I ended up just cutting the unit off...and shoving the heater hose onto the pipe stud on the upper intake manifold......and using a hose clamp to secure it.....I had to bend a bracket slightly to get the hose to reach.
I felt more secure about the connection than I did with the quick connect.....some others have had that thing pop off once the cooling system builds up pressure.......so it has to be connected "just right".
It has held for 3 years with no attention in my modified state.
I got the quick connect tool, shown in my pictures from AutoZone, you can get it on the "loaner" program.
However, I found that I needed to cut it (make the shaft shorter) in order to be able to get onto the connector.
Of course that makes the loaner a "purchase", although that is fine with AutoZone also.....and I had told them that I planned to keep the tool...as I expected to have to "modify" it.
However, after all that trouble, the nylon insert with the tabs, still disintegrated.....so the "repair kit" is a MUST....and it is very cheap.......if you plan to be able to re-use the connector.
Get yourself a BEAM type torque wrench......that is in INCH pounds.....not ft lbs......
I used a "clicker" style....and ended up breaking one of the bolts......due to the pipe thread goo......
I got my in/lbs beam style torque wrench at Sears.
You will need SENSOR SAFE RTV.... only 4 small "blops" are needed at the corners.......where the head meets the motor casting.......in other words....at the end of each "end seal".
Shown in my pictures here
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2406703960011220610bjzjxv
Otherwise ALL gaskets are DRY fitted.....no sealant, etc.....application of such could cause the repair to fail.
The gaskets are marked "LEFT" right with letters stamped into the nylon body of the gasket.
The gaskets also have "tabs" that line up with small holes in the head.....so positioning them is easy.
Shown in my pictures here.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2031271420011220610WDRUXV
The end seals have grooves that line up with grooves in the lower intake manifold gaskets....
Shown here.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2301524980011220610RuTnGL
It "may" look like you are blocking a coolant passage when you put the lower intake manifold gaskets into place.....but have faith that FORD knows what they are doing.
You also need some thread sealant......a SMALL bit on each of the bolts that go into the head.
Use EXTREME care handling the IMRC actuators.....they are about $200 each.
I did not remove them....but loosened them to be able to get access to the bolt next to them.
I was also careful to try to avoid soaking them with cleaners......
The gasket kit from FORD will have a right and left lower intake manifold gasket (1 each) and a front and rear end seal.....
Also shown in my pictures
Remember, my pictures are from my '96 3.8L, so part numbers, if visible may be different for your '98
You absolutely MUST change the motor oil and filter before starting the engine after this job.
When you break the seal....as you pull the upper intake manifold off of the heads.......you will hear coolant drain into the crankcase.....no matter how thoroughly you thought you drained the coolant from the moter.
For disassembly, I bled down the fuel system pressure at the test point in the middle of the front of the fuel rail.
Then, I removed the throttle body, and set it aside with the throttle linkage still connected.
I removed the upper intake manifold.
For the fuel rail......I left the injectors connected to the fuel rail.
I used a LOT (allocate 4 cans for this) of brake parts cleaner to thoroughly clean the lower intake manifold.....particular attention to the area around the fuel injectors.......
Brake parts cleaner because it leaves no residue.
Then....once the lower intake manifold is clean......particularly around the fuel injectors......I lift up on the fuel rail.....pulling the injectors out with the fuel rail.
You may find that it helps to unplug the electrical connection for the fuel injectors....
I tie the fuel rail up out of the way....leaving the fuel line connected.
By cleaning around the fuel injectors BEFORE lifting the injectors out......you prevent all that grit that always collects around each injector.....from falling into the head.
You will notice that the fuel injectors plug into the head....not the lower intake manifold....although you still have to remove them.
Before putting the fuel injectors back into place.
Spray some injector cleaner (spray can type) up inside the "end cap" on each injector to flush out any junk that may be in there.....the windstar is notorious for building up junk up in there....although the rest of the injector is quite reliable an cleanable with a cleaner added to the fuel tank.
There is a spray version of the Berryman's B-12 Chemtool available.....
Also rub a small amount of clean motor oil around the "O" ring gaskets on each injector before insertion.
This will aid in getting the injectors in place easily and without damage to the "O" ring gaskets.
You can buy a "O" ring set for the injectors....just in case one gets damaged.
The area under the lower intake manifold was very clean on my motor.....others have found some sludge built up in there....so don't panic if yours is not as clean as mine.
My motor was someplace over 160K miles....and I had been using synthetic oil....changed every 3-4k miles.....which is why mine was so clean.
The upper manifold gaskets are reusable.....just make certain that the mating surfaces are clean.
Before placing the lower intake manifold in place.......I drained the motor oil....and dumped some clean, fresh motor oil about in the area under the manifold....to flush it out.....(after removing any and all bits of junk that my have ended up there).
Give the radiator and heater hoses a GOOD look....if original...consider replacement.
For coolant, I am pretty sure that they still came from the factory with "traditional green", which is not easy to locate now-adays.
The Prestone "yellow jug" is NOT traditional green.....it is closer to "Dexcool" than what was used in our windstars.
You can do some research online to find the correct "traditional green" coolant from Zerex and Peak, also available under the Motorcraft name.
I have gotten a LOT of mis-information on coolant by auto part store clerks....including NAPA.
Researching online will give you a mental picture of what the jug of each manufacture's product looks like, so that you will be able to quickly spot it on the shelf.
A read of the label will tell you....if it says "NO silicates, it is NOT traditional green or G-05"
If it does not say that it is G-05, it is NOT.
I used Zerex G-05 coolant in mine.....which is a long life, with a small amount of silicate in it.
It is also available under the Motorcraft "Gold" name.
IF you do not get all the green coolant flushed out.....the G-05 type coolant will still work JUST FINE, it just won't be "long life", but I would suggest a coolant flush after 2 years anyhow.
The newer windstars and the even newer varients of the windstar come with G-05 frome the factory.
The replacement lower intake manifold gaskets have been improved from the original......so you should not be faced with a repeat of this repair.
The pictures that I took of the lower intake manifold repair start here
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2529449750011220610bclxqN
Not sure if this will work....but the page with all the lower intake manifold pictures.....
http://rides.webshots.com/album/201931518cScpNK?start=84
Take note that my pictures....and my ranting are no replacement for a good repair manual (you will need the torque specifications for your year).
I am not a mechanic......so take my input with a grain of salt.
I would also get a new "crossover" or heater pipe.....shown in my pictures......the "U" hose on the water pump side comes with the pipe.
Also, get a 3/4" (well that's the size on my '96 3.8L) "quick connect repair kit".
The heater hose that connects to the driver's side of the upper intake manifold.....next to the thermostat has a quick connect. coupling.
I ended up just cutting the unit off...and shoving the heater hose onto the pipe stud on the upper intake manifold......and using a hose clamp to secure it.....I had to bend a bracket slightly to get the hose to reach.
I felt more secure about the connection than I did with the quick connect.....some others have had that thing pop off once the cooling system builds up pressure.......so it has to be connected "just right".
It has held for 3 years with no attention in my modified state.
I got the quick connect tool, shown in my pictures from AutoZone, you can get it on the "loaner" program.
However, I found that I needed to cut it (make the shaft shorter) in order to be able to get onto the connector.
Of course that makes the loaner a "purchase", although that is fine with AutoZone also.....and I had told them that I planned to keep the tool...as I expected to have to "modify" it.
However, after all that trouble, the nylon insert with the tabs, still disintegrated.....so the "repair kit" is a MUST....and it is very cheap.......if you plan to be able to re-use the connector.
Get yourself a BEAM type torque wrench......that is in INCH pounds.....not ft lbs......
I used a "clicker" style....and ended up breaking one of the bolts......due to the pipe thread goo......
I got my in/lbs beam style torque wrench at Sears.
You will need SENSOR SAFE RTV.... only 4 small "blops" are needed at the corners.......where the head meets the motor casting.......in other words....at the end of each "end seal".
Shown in my pictures here
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2406703960011220610bjzjxv
Otherwise ALL gaskets are DRY fitted.....no sealant, etc.....application of such could cause the repair to fail.
The gaskets are marked "LEFT" right with letters stamped into the nylon body of the gasket.
The gaskets also have "tabs" that line up with small holes in the head.....so positioning them is easy.
Shown in my pictures here.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2031271420011220610WDRUXV
The end seals have grooves that line up with grooves in the lower intake manifold gaskets....
Shown here.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2301524980011220610RuTnGL
It "may" look like you are blocking a coolant passage when you put the lower intake manifold gaskets into place.....but have faith that FORD knows what they are doing.
You also need some thread sealant......a SMALL bit on each of the bolts that go into the head.
Use EXTREME care handling the IMRC actuators.....they are about $200 each.
I did not remove them....but loosened them to be able to get access to the bolt next to them.
I was also careful to try to avoid soaking them with cleaners......
The gasket kit from FORD will have a right and left lower intake manifold gasket (1 each) and a front and rear end seal.....
Also shown in my pictures
Remember, my pictures are from my '96 3.8L, so part numbers, if visible may be different for your '98
You absolutely MUST change the motor oil and filter before starting the engine after this job.
When you break the seal....as you pull the upper intake manifold off of the heads.......you will hear coolant drain into the crankcase.....no matter how thoroughly you thought you drained the coolant from the moter.
For disassembly, I bled down the fuel system pressure at the test point in the middle of the front of the fuel rail.
Then, I removed the throttle body, and set it aside with the throttle linkage still connected.
I removed the upper intake manifold.
For the fuel rail......I left the injectors connected to the fuel rail.
I used a LOT (allocate 4 cans for this) of brake parts cleaner to thoroughly clean the lower intake manifold.....particular attention to the area around the fuel injectors.......
Brake parts cleaner because it leaves no residue.
Then....once the lower intake manifold is clean......particularly around the fuel injectors......I lift up on the fuel rail.....pulling the injectors out with the fuel rail.
You may find that it helps to unplug the electrical connection for the fuel injectors....
I tie the fuel rail up out of the way....leaving the fuel line connected.
By cleaning around the fuel injectors BEFORE lifting the injectors out......you prevent all that grit that always collects around each injector.....from falling into the head.
You will notice that the fuel injectors plug into the head....not the lower intake manifold....although you still have to remove them.
Before putting the fuel injectors back into place.
Spray some injector cleaner (spray can type) up inside the "end cap" on each injector to flush out any junk that may be in there.....the windstar is notorious for building up junk up in there....although the rest of the injector is quite reliable an cleanable with a cleaner added to the fuel tank.
There is a spray version of the Berryman's B-12 Chemtool available.....
Also rub a small amount of clean motor oil around the "O" ring gaskets on each injector before insertion.
This will aid in getting the injectors in place easily and without damage to the "O" ring gaskets.
You can buy a "O" ring set for the injectors....just in case one gets damaged.
The area under the lower intake manifold was very clean on my motor.....others have found some sludge built up in there....so don't panic if yours is not as clean as mine.
My motor was someplace over 160K miles....and I had been using synthetic oil....changed every 3-4k miles.....which is why mine was so clean.
The upper manifold gaskets are reusable.....just make certain that the mating surfaces are clean.
Before placing the lower intake manifold in place.......I drained the motor oil....and dumped some clean, fresh motor oil about in the area under the manifold....to flush it out.....(after removing any and all bits of junk that my have ended up there).
Give the radiator and heater hoses a GOOD look....if original...consider replacement.
For coolant, I am pretty sure that they still came from the factory with "traditional green", which is not easy to locate now-adays.
The Prestone "yellow jug" is NOT traditional green.....it is closer to "Dexcool" than what was used in our windstars.
You can do some research online to find the correct "traditional green" coolant from Zerex and Peak, also available under the Motorcraft name.
I have gotten a LOT of mis-information on coolant by auto part store clerks....including NAPA.
Researching online will give you a mental picture of what the jug of each manufacture's product looks like, so that you will be able to quickly spot it on the shelf.
A read of the label will tell you....if it says "NO silicates, it is NOT traditional green or G-05"
If it does not say that it is G-05, it is NOT.
I used Zerex G-05 coolant in mine.....which is a long life, with a small amount of silicate in it.
It is also available under the Motorcraft "Gold" name.
IF you do not get all the green coolant flushed out.....the G-05 type coolant will still work JUST FINE, it just won't be "long life", but I would suggest a coolant flush after 2 years anyhow.
The newer windstars and the even newer varients of the windstar come with G-05 frome the factory.
tartersauce
03-26-2008, 08:33 AM
Coolant in the oil.. Yes, you will get coolant in the oil side of the block. Ive always drained the oil first and left the drain plug off. When your all cleaned up and about to put everything back together, get a clean quart of oil and pour it into/onto all the push rods lifters. It will drain out the bottom since the plug is off. Simple little flush of the pan.
Triple G
03-26-2008, 01:04 PM
Hello,
Thanks to everyone for the info. It is really great to have all this knowledge available, as the manuals only go so far.
I have made many notes and plan on going to the local dealer to get the gaskets. One question I still have is why do you suggest changing the cross-over pipe? I removed the lower manifold with this pipe in place because I could not see how it would clear all the hoses and inner fenderwell, and I had no intention of taking it out or replacing. Am I missing something ?
Thanks
Guy
1998 3.8L
Thanks to everyone for the info. It is really great to have all this knowledge available, as the manuals only go so far.
I have made many notes and plan on going to the local dealer to get the gaskets. One question I still have is why do you suggest changing the cross-over pipe? I removed the lower manifold with this pipe in place because I could not see how it would clear all the hoses and inner fenderwell, and I had no intention of taking it out or replacing. Am I missing something ?
Thanks
Guy
1998 3.8L
wiswind
03-26-2008, 09:24 PM
Preventative maintenance......easier to replace at that point, while you have it out of the vehicle.
I would at least replace that "U" hose on the passenger side end of it......
It is also a good time to replace the thermostat, if not replaced already.
Another note......when you refill the coolant.....you will NOT be able to get all the air out of the system.....so you will have to "burp" the system.
I have found that if there is enough air trapped in the system, you can end up with the temperature shooting up.....at which point, I shut the engine OFF.....let cool...and refill with 50/50 coolant mix.
Squeeze the upper radiator hose to make sure that it is filled with coolant.
Also, I found out from experience, that the serpentine belt does NOT play nice with fluids.......so I would remove it before starting the job.....as you WILL get some fluids splashed about.....and that is 1 less thing to watch.
Look on the underside of the front of your hood for the diagram that shows the belt routing.....if that label is not there......download and print it out from some place like AutoZone's repair information.
One thing to keep in mind when putting the belt back on.....smooth pulley gets smooth side of belt....grooved pulley gets grooved side of belt.
Of course......if the belt is worn or has cracks in the surface.....it is a good time to install a new belt.
You might not be as lucky as I was.....when mine shredded (from fluid splashed on it about 1 month earlier) right in front of a AutoZone store.....and they had 1....and only 1 in stock.
I would at least replace that "U" hose on the passenger side end of it......
It is also a good time to replace the thermostat, if not replaced already.
Another note......when you refill the coolant.....you will NOT be able to get all the air out of the system.....so you will have to "burp" the system.
I have found that if there is enough air trapped in the system, you can end up with the temperature shooting up.....at which point, I shut the engine OFF.....let cool...and refill with 50/50 coolant mix.
Squeeze the upper radiator hose to make sure that it is filled with coolant.
Also, I found out from experience, that the serpentine belt does NOT play nice with fluids.......so I would remove it before starting the job.....as you WILL get some fluids splashed about.....and that is 1 less thing to watch.
Look on the underside of the front of your hood for the diagram that shows the belt routing.....if that label is not there......download and print it out from some place like AutoZone's repair information.
One thing to keep in mind when putting the belt back on.....smooth pulley gets smooth side of belt....grooved pulley gets grooved side of belt.
Of course......if the belt is worn or has cracks in the surface.....it is a good time to install a new belt.
You might not be as lucky as I was.....when mine shredded (from fluid splashed on it about 1 month earlier) right in front of a AutoZone store.....and they had 1....and only 1 in stock.
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