Try beat the infamous gasket again

Hello:
I have a 1998 windstar GL(manufactueed in Canada on Oct/1997).
I 1996 summer, I change the HG( head gasket), LIMG(lower intake manifold gasket), UIMG(Upper intake manifold) due to the blow HG.

Honesterly, it is not very sucessfully due to the raining(I worked in the public parking lot without enough time + always raining)

Since then, it keep consuming coolant(slow) and there is oil in the coolant reservoir+white smoke out tail gate(not too much).

I know there is still problem. But I just hesitate to work on it again since it work fine.

But it is good time to work on it this Spring.

For some reason, I think the HG is good and the LIMG(lower intake manifold gasket) might be the the culprit.

So, what the good way to check if it is LIMG(lower intake manifold gasket) or HG cause the coolant leak?

I search this forum and did not find the answer so far.

Any suggestion?:banghead:

Thanks.

The tool is called a Borascope. Harbor Frieght tools has a cheapo model that may work for you.. Its a Camera or Lens on a stick and you can stick in your Cyls and intake mana. You would also need a Coolant pressure Tester too..
Basic - Pressurize your coolant system. Look in your manifold each cyl area.
Remove spark plugs, insert scope and look up at the head and gasket valves etc. You will see the coolant somewhere..

You can get a where abouts just by looking at the spark plugs.

The head gaskets on the post 1995 3.8L windstars is pretty reliable.
The lower intake manifold gasket is a high failure item.
Coolant leaking into the intake due to a leaking lower intake manifold gasket is drawn on into the cylinder(s).

The pressure test listed above can help you to determine if coolant is leaking into a cylinder due to a head gasket leak.

One important TSB that FORD issued.....that I list in the "general windstar information" sticky post is that you should NOT use hard metal tooling to scrape (clean) the aluminum head.
Metal tooling leaves small scratches.
These scratches have been found to lead to coolant leaking....and a repeat gasket failure (head gasket or lower intake manifold gasket).

Also, the gaskets are to be dry fitted......use of sealants on a gasket that is intended for dry fitment.....can lead to failure of the repair.

The first in a series of pictures showing the lower intake manifold gasket repair on a '96 3.8L is here.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2529449750011220610bclxqN

sorry, I stolen three pictures from wiswind.


http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q261/xuewencity/LIMG/LIMG1.jpg

From these pictures, we can easy find that the FOUR holes circled by RED line are coolant passage . But what are the two holes circled by BLACK line? I guess they are coolant passage TOO.


let see the Lower Intake Manifold Gasket. We can see the four coolant passage are well protected by the rubber grume surround the edge.

But what will protect the two holes circled by BLACK line if they are coolant passage?

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q261/xuewencity/LIMG/LIMG2.jpg


http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q261/xuewencity/LIMG/LIMG3.jpg

From these pictures, I think that the coolant have higher risk spray into spark plug hole 1,3,4,6, if there are white smoke out tailpipe. .

Any thought?:screwy:

As I remember, what you have circled in black are not coolant passages.
They are just depressions that do not go anywhere.
You can tell by the color of the metal inside the coolant passages......and the lack of that color in the ones you circle in black.

As I remember, what you have circled in black are not coolant passages.
They are just depressions that do not go anywhere.
You can tell by the color of the metal inside the coolant passages......and the lack of that color in the ones you circle in black.
Blacks I think they are crankshaft or PCV vents recir holes not used in the intake. You may even have a crack in the intake which may be more likley. Dont think your coolant is gonna leak upwards. Meaning "You will never get much Coolant PSI since its leaking" Once you have the intake off, look in the valves, if one is nice and cleaned from coolant then its intake mana.

Saying oil in the coolant is the key there.. Something is leaking pretty badly.. If intake, It wont show Oil in coolant, so best guess, Heads or head gaskets.. Basic - Coolant pressure 16psi max.. Cly pressure 9 to 1ish The cly is the only thing that will over come it.

Oh if you dont know, when coolant gets into the intake, its like Pressure washing things. So It will look like its brand New. Same with a Spark plug, it will look like its never been in a Cly.

"Saying oil in the coolant is the key there.. Something is leaking pretty badly.. If intake, It wont show Oil in coolant, so best guess, Heads or head gaskets.. Basic - Coolant pressure 16psi max.. Cly pressure 9 to 1ish The cly is the only thing that will over come it."

In my case, there is oil in coolant and also white smoke out the tailpipe(coolant consumed slowly).

This heep me thinking for a long time actually.

The coolant in oil might cause by cracked lower intake,head, block or blow HG.

The oil in coolant might cause by the same thing.

It seems I need to test coolant pressue and sylinder pressure first.

"Basic - Coolant pressure 16psi max.. Cly pressure 9 to 1ish The cly is the only thing that will over come it"

Those specification is just for Windstar or suitable for all of car?

Where I can get the coolant pressue and sylinder pressure of Windstar easily ?

All cars are around the same. 9 to 1 10 to 1 etc. Coolant is all the same but never higher then 16. Some are 12ish etc. Cly Pressures are the same also, 150s to 200 psi depends on engine and engine wear. But they all work the same way and are all very close in pressures.

Any of the Auto parts stores will carry a Pressure tester.

Easy way to see if you do have pressure in the coolant system, Run with coolant cap on and get HOT. If you cant Squez your Radiator hoses, its got pressure. I would pull the intake, and look in the ports for cleaness. If none are clean, you have to move on and pull heads..

I would pull spark plugs and see what cly.

Oh wanted to ask this, Theres no Coolant in the OIL or Dipstick? Milky looking? Coolant Intake leaks outside of or into engine oil. Nothing showing in oil at all?

Ok Intake leaks coolant. Temp is low 190 - 220 It runs or rolls into cly but causes a misfire some white smoke when it does fire. Nothing like Head side.
Head gasket leaks coolant. High Temp 1000 F PLUS etc coolant turns to vapor or steam VERY quick and wont misfire cly unless its really leaking alot. White smoke etc.

Take note that if you remove the lower intake manifold.....you MUST use new lower intake manifold gaskets....they are NOT reusable.

The upper intake manifold gaskets are reusable.

So.....a head gasket job includes new lower intake manifold gaskets.

Head bolts are NOT reusable.
Lower intake manifold bolts are reusable.

However, if you are looking at a repeat repair here.....then I would be asking what went wrong with the first repair.
This is not a job that should need a repeat.......so if the heads come off again....I would get them to a good shop for checking out.....to make sure that they are not warped, etc.

I mention this because.....I don't want for you to do the repair....and end up back in there a 3rd time!!!!....that would be beyond pushing it.......

Lower intake manifold lists for $326
Lower intake manifold gaskets should run about $50 or less
Left and right head gaskets list for about $100, Y2K FORD has them for about $70.

These part prices are FORD parts......from the Y2K Ford website.

Y2K Ford also lists the heads......much cheaper with the valves....so I would call them and ask them about that.

I would recommend the genuine FORD parts......as LABOR is the biggest cost (yours or paying to have it done).

Thanks every one.

I will get the coolant and sylinder pressure tester and test them first .

Also, I need check my oil this weekend .

I will post back soon.

By the way, Which sylinder side the term " bank 1" and "bank 2" refered to ?


The sylinder side that toward to firewall is "bank 2"? or "bank 1"?:screwy:

For this particular Windstar.

Bank 1 is the bank toward the firewall......this is also the "right" side of the motor.
On FORD engines, Bank 1 is the bank that has cylinder #1

To determine if coolant is in the oil.......check out this website for how to get your oil tested.....
Coolant in the oil is VERY serious and will ruin the motor bearings.......$$$$$
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/