New bolts necessary on 2000 hub assembly replacement?

The FSM says to use all new bolts for the hub assembly, sway bar to strut, and a new spindle nut. Is that necessary? If it is then I'll do it but seems like a PITA to track them all down without going to the dealer.

Thx.

I did when I replaced my Hub to be safe and they way those parts deteriorate with use and abuse, not to mention the weather elements I'll recommend it. The Pinch Bolt on my van was a little smaller in diameter size and missing a few threads due to corrosion and it's never been driven in snow or ice, least of all road salt. Go here and order all the parts online Genuine Ford Parts (http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=213787)
I believe I spent $120 including shipping on all the parts including the hub assembly, washers, nuts and bolts... all original Ford parts. I was impressed with their price and service and highly recommend them. The local dealer wanted $160 just for the HUB!

I advice you to price the parts online and then call them as they might need the VIN number from your van to match the parts. I would call with a list to make sure you get what you need and don't miss anything. Some items like the castelated nuts, cotter pins and Hub Nut need to be ordered as a set (bag of 4, etc) but it will actually cost you less than buying the single item at the dealer. You could sell the surplus or save them for future repairs after you're done.

Check my thread on my experience HERE (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=716386&highlight=Ed_Strong) and I hope it helps you on yours.

To me, it just depends. If its in good condition, I might not be bothered. So far, I haven't been bit. Typically, I only replace old hardware when new comes with whatever I'm replacing or something breaks or really should be replaced. The pinch bolt is not going anywhere due to the way it is used, so it doesn't excite me. The sway bar link hardware I'd also say reuse. But you might decide to replace the whole link, maybe it's loose or too corroded to reuse, a common replacement. The axle nut, I've reused one of those too, 50k+. I think they run ~$3. I can sleep with it, but if you will worry, then replace them all.

Yes you may end up at the dealer to save time tracking parts or order online. Yes its a good idea to replace those bolts. But 9 times out of 10 do they really do it. The answer is no. Now if its a Good managed dealership I would say maybe they would. But if they got to order those bolts and there looking for turnaround. Then i can see them skipping it..

Go here and order all the parts online Genuine Ford Parts (http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=213787)
I believe I spent $120 including shipping on all the parts including the hub assembly, washers, nuts and bolts... all original Ford parts.

I am having a hell of a time finding the 3 bolts that hold the hub assembly on. They are grade 10.9 I have been to hardware stores, auto parts stores, the local ford dealer, and am communicating via phone/email with bob utter ford as you suggested.

I had to beat the heck out of the old ones to assist in removing the old, stuck, hub assembly.

Do you by any chance have a part number on those bolts from when you bought yours?

Thanks!

Those bolts are fastened with Locktite, making it very dificult to remove... maybe that's why they recommend you get new ones!

And now that you mentioned it, the guy at Genuine Ford Parts sent me the wrong bolts when I placed my order! They were half as long and I wasn't able to use them and was forced to re-use the old ones. Fortunately they came out easy and I didn't have to beat on them to get'em out.

Yeah, I got the bolts out ok although they put up the greatest fight ever. However it was for the purpose of getting the stuck hub assembly off that I had to re-thread in the bolts a little way and then beat on the bolts to push the hub assembly off (because there was nowhere else to beat that would transfer direct impact).

I took a bolt into my local dealer, they took about 20 minutes but they think they found the right part. A nearby dealer had 1 unit in stock so they called them and had them measure it for comparison. They then found an even further dealer that had 3 in stock which they are transferring for me to have tomorrow.

Since these are so hard to find I guess they don't change them as per the FSM.

$12/each UGH

Additionally, the brake rotor wouldn't come off. I tried mallets, hammers, prybars, a big old pulling tool I made, and an air chisel. Finally I gave up and let it stay attached.

The axle was stuck in the hub. I had to make a pushing tool to push it out. I welded a steel bar across two lug nuts, then welded a nut and bolt from an old jeep cherokee engine mount centered over the axle to push with. Lastly, when it started to flex I used an old bold to attach it to a 3rd lug nut. At that point I put the impact wrench on the long nut and it pushed right out (with a fight).

After a bunch more crap once I had the hub off I used the hydraulic press to remove the rotor.

See picture:

http://www.doaks.net/temp/windstar/2000-Windstar-Homeade-Axle-.jpg

wow... I mean WOW!
How many miles on your van? That stuff was really baked on it like bacon grease on an iron skillet!
My rotor came loose as soon as I removed the brake pads, and the hub came off easy with a 3 jaw puller. The thing that really gave me a hard time was the tie rod end, I had to thread the old castellated nut and use a bottle jack to lift the tie rod end and beat on the wheel knuckle to break it loose (I don't have a 2 jaw puller).
I guess you're right, they must not follow on their own procedures. Not sure if they use it as a tactic to discourage you to do your own repairs or to make you spend more money than you should.

My tie rod end was the only part of this project that came out easly... just whacked the knuckle with a hammer, usually twice, and it pops loose. No pullers or anything. Maybe your was encrusted like the rest of my van. THis van has 90,000 miles on it and is in Maine.

take this for what it's worth but I talked to a former Ford service advisor a little while ago. We had met for reasons other than cars, vans etc. Anyway I asked him about the "replace with new hardware" thing. His answer made a lot of sense. Apparently on the threaded components the service manual says to replace it's because of locktite. On the new components (as well as the previously installed ones too I guess) locktite was placed on the threads already. The tech didn't need to use a bottle to add his own. Essentially pre-locktited bolts. Because removing a connector would break the bond, and Ford wants the components to stay put, they indicate replace with new (pre-locktited) bolts. The service advisor told me that his shop just used red locktite on any threaded component that was removed and off they go. The "replace" thing was because of this locktite.

Makes sense to me.

Piper

Interesting, I figured they wanted them replaced because of the extreme torque applied to the threads of such a critical fastener.

For future reference the three bolts are ford part number W705696-S436 and they are sold seperately. I was quoted $12/each but they discounted it to $8.20/each at time of pickup. I think they felt guilty about the price.

I got the whole thing reassembled tonight. Will test drive tomorrow.

Well that's comforting how the waters have been so muddied by the Ford service rep. We now no longer know when to replace or simply reuse fasteners with a little Loctite. Should we also include head bolts in that group of reusable bolts? Just how do we know any longer when to REALLY replace them or not? With head bolts, there definitely is the issue of them being sufficiently stressed, you wouldn't want to risk reusing them. I stand by my previous post that many fasteners can be reused and aren't as near failure as made out to be by the way they are used and exposed to forces. Take for example the pinch bolt on the lower control arm ball joint. All it does is pinch shut the knuckle on the ball joint stud, but the stud is grooved and held by the bolt in that groove so the stud can not slip out, like it really would be that easy as one who has changed one would know. So just the littlest of tightness of the nut on the bolt would keep the bolt from sliding out of the stud groove is necessary for it perform its funtion. So why do we need to replace it EVERY TIME we loosen it? Do we replace our lug nuts and studs every single time? H---NO!!! They are the most frequently over loaded (over torqued) fasteners on our cars. They are also the most commonly failed nut and bolt like fasteners on cars period! Whew! I need to catch my breath there. Ok ok, I guess we will all have to grow a brain and simply replace them as necessary based on condition, experience and good reason, like head bolts. Somtimes it is just safer to replace key fasteners in certain places that may involve the front end and sometimes you do it so it won't haunt you later. See, I can be just as clarifying as the Ford guy. No offense meant to you Piper.

Hey Tripletdaddy -- no offence taken! I always err on the side of caution, especially since my van is driven by my wife and usually contains my 3 kids. I too was kinda peed off when I heard the Ford service advisor's response. I'd much preferred "you must replace all components". I guess the thing that strikes me funny is when I go to my local Ford and ask for these "must replace" components they never seem to have them. I've even asked "ok, what happens if I was to bring my van in to have the shop do it?" The standard answer is that the new components are included in "the kit". Well, ok, I've seen "the kit" from the parts department and it didn't include any of those "must be replaced" bolts. So, really, what gives?

In truth, I think most of the at home mechanics do a great job of repairs, I'd even venture a guess that we're better than some dealerships. 4 years ago, before I started doing my own repairs, I had my Aerostar van at the dealer for brakes. I went to get something out of the van and there it was, on the lift, both front calipers hanging in the wind by the brake lines. $1000 bucks later with new brakes all 'round I said never again will I allow a shop to do work I can learn about and do myself.

So, back to the connectors. I guess the question is, how much does piece of mind cost? $8 per bolt. Thats a deal in my mind.

Finally FWIW, any time the FSM says to replace the component -- I do. My wife and kids are worth it and I know I'm saving $$ by doing the work myself. Even spending the extra $$ for new connectors still puts me ahead financially.


(as he steps off his soapbox...)

Piper

Hey Tripletdaddy -- no offence taken! I always err on the side of caution, especially since my van is driven by my wife and usually contains my 3 kids. I too was kinda peed off when I heard the Ford service advisor's response. I'd much preferred "you must replace all components". I guess the thing that strikes me funny is when I go to my local Ford and ask for these "must replace" components they never seem to have them. I've even asked "ok, what happens if I was to bring my van in to have the shop do it?" The standard answer is that the new components are included in "the kit". Well, ok, I've seen "the kit" from the parts department and it didn't include any of those "must be replaced" bolts. So, really, what gives?

In truth, I think most of the at home mechanics do a great job of repairs, I'd even venture a guess that we're better than some dealerships. 4 years ago, before I started doing my own repairs, I had my Aerostar van at the dealer for brakes. I went to get something out of the van and there it was, on the lift, both front calipers hanging in the wind by the brake lines. $1000 bucks later with new brakes all 'round I said never again will I allow a shop to do work I can learn about and do myself.

So, back to the connectors. I guess the question is, how much does piece of mind cost? $8 per bolt. Thats a deal in my mind.

Finally FWIW, any time the FSM says to replace the component -- I do. My wife and kids are worth it and I know I'm saving $$ by doing the work myself. Even spending the extra $$ for new connectors still puts me ahead financially.


(as he steps off his soapbox...)

Piper

Totally agree with your post Piper, that is why I got all the parts when I replaced mine. What would I do if the van fails and I end up taking someones life, what if it fails when my wife and kids are on it? I'll pay the extra $8 now and have a clear conscience later.

Besides like you said we end up saving a ton doing it our selves. I spent $120 including shipping on all the parts including the hub assembly, washers, nuts and bolts most of them came in packs with extra item I didn't need... all original Ford parts. The local dealer wanted $160 just for the HUB!

folks, where do you get a hold of the FSM? Is there a downloadable version or is it only with a paid purchase?

try here http://www.helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r=http://www.google.ca/search?q=ford+service+manuals+helm&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

northern piper,

I looked at the website. Thank you for pointing me in that direction. My question is regarding the online subscription. Is that worth it? In other words can I download it at all that way?

well, it's hard to say. Any time I've gone there it's been to confirm something I planned to do. I subscribe to alldatadiy.com which costs about $10.00 per year vs the Helm site which is maybe 10 times that. When I have used the helm site it's only been for the 72 hour or 1 month. My personal feeling is that when I do auto repairs myself I'm saving a fair amount of $$. So, I usually just subscribe for the minimum amount of time and use the section I'm working on specifically. I've used it for brakes, suspension, some electrical stuff, once again, confirming or elaborating on what I've learned from the www.alldatadiy.com site.

It'd be a ton of paper to print out the whole works but you could do it I suppose. I just love the on line aspect as I print what I need, the paper ususally gets covered in grease and dirt and I throw it away. Next repair, new paper.

I do keep clean copies of what I have printed out though "just in case" after the repairs are done and the time has expired.

Good luck!

Piper