Is The RB 26 DETT a very good Engine ??

Is The RB26DETT a very good engine ??

Ya. But the intercooled TTs make it what it is. Great engine but it has it's weak points.

Whoa.....that engine looks awesome man! The intake manifold is a killer!

IMHO, the RB26 is in itself a great engine. It's got its weaknesses, but it's so strong. The TT turns it into a beast. But the real strenght comes from the RB26. I mean you can put a TT on any engine but the engine may not hold the type of power the TT can churn out. But the RB26 has proven many times that it can hold up to even 1000 - 1200 bhp! And it is a relatively cheap engine! I mean try churning out 700 bhp on a Modena or F355 by putting a TT - it'd cost a million! The long and short of it all is this...THE RB26 IS DAMN GOOD! It just won't go down. That's it!

The RB series is nothing But heavy crap! :p
The should have put the VG series into the Skyline! :D
THe RB series is the WORST Nissan Motor to date....LOL :D
Actually if you think about it. If the Skyline would have had the VG30DETT It would probably have come over here, but it would not be the car it is today, Due to the VG's Oil consumtion problem under high speeds and stress. The PVC valvle system is only an inch from where alot of Oil sits inside the valve covers and under high speeds (cornering and such) Oil gets sucked into the PCV system and causes severe problems that mostly lead to detination of the motor.

~< PeAcE >~
--_GTR-33_--

im hoping that post was a joke.... if not, you're full of sh*t.
The RB engines are great, and the RB26DETT is the king.
The twin turbos dont make it what it is, it could be single turbo and still kick ass.

the RB26DETT engine is one of the best import engines made

Well when I have seen people just boost the hell out of them and run low 11's on street tires, that tells me they are pretty good..

All engines have weak points, but the RB26DETT has alot of good points.

Originally posted by GTS-4 Ben
Anyone who drives slower than you is an idiot; anyone who drives faster than you is a maniac

your signature is sooo true!! :D :D

:D

Bugger me......find me a street driven VG30DETT that can even come close to the RB26.

Im waiting


And Waiting.

Thats right, there are none.

Like most others have said the RB26 has its weak points, what doesnt but in the bang for bucks stakes NOTHING comes close.

Nah, they aren't very good engines at all!:p
Thats why just about all of the street legal drag cars in Japan use them... :devil:

These engines are insane!!!!!!

Ant:mad:

Yeah look at how good the 3L V6 is in the 300ZX... that dosn't perform anywhere near it. My RB20DET is faster than 300ZX's..

Thats crap dude the VG30DETT is a great engine....theres no way in hell your rb20det is a match for it. One of the guys in the 300zx club runs low 12's and on the motorway they are on a par with the GTR.

In the states they do some crazy things with these engines....maybe you can beat a non-turbo Z?? but a decent tt is gonna have you for lunch.

I read an article sometime back on the 300ZX NZ Club website how there was this race between a GTR and a 300ZX and there was'nt a lot in it. Actually hold on, that was you aye Kai :) hee hee hee... Man that made for some great reading...

In terms of engine capability the 2.6 litre twin turbo does well for itself considering the relative displacement difference. One would think that in theory the extra capacity should see the VG series engine eat the RB, but the RB26DETT does quite well for itself considering the numbers. I think that this says a lot for the RB series of engine.

The VG30DETT series are an excellent engine, 3 litre V6 twin turbo.
The RB26DETT series are an excellent engine, 2.6 litre in-line 6 twin turbo.
A comparison does'nt really make sense unless you are comparing an out of the box block, as every engine is in such varied states of tune. I have only heard good things about them both really.
Usually the bad stories come from things like idiots winding up huge amounts of boost without addressing the issue of containing it all. I know one guy (Monty) with an R33 GTR who dialled up 26 pounds, with nothing else done to the engine except for airfilters and he was suprised to blow his turbos. What suprised me is that he was 'suprised' :rolleyes:

I agree with both votes that the RB and VG series engines are a good strong engine. I reckon that common sense tuning through research and incremental testing (not overloading during testing) is key in making the engine what it is, and producing an effective state of tune.
(Although in saying that same engines just seem possessed - like Kai's! although that tapu totara must've helped)

I never said they weren't a good engine, just that the Stock 300ZX TT is pretty pathetic..

Sure they go damn good when tuned.

Give me a RB26DETT anyday though.

And as for my 2L beating it. I run 14.0, any 300ZX TT I have ever seen at the drags dosn't come close.

I had a go in one from Japan. It had all the HKS gear, huge single turbo. After driving it, it just wasn't acting like a car with that much crap on it should be.. so we grabbed the HKS EVC/VPC/FCON/ etc off it.

I have also seen some monsters though.

In my opinion though the 300ZX is an ugly duckling..

It was mentioned earlier that they should have put the VG30DETT into the Skyline. The only thing wrong with that is that the chassis rails are'nt wide enough to easily drop the VG30DETT block in. I have heard of people installing the RB26DETT into a Z, but not the other way around.

Awesome idea though :) I suppose even if it did fit, there would be the 2WD/4WD drivetrain issue, BUT it would be a cool project.

Note that some of those Japanese hard tuned GTR's have been bored out to like 2.8 litres. I have video from the last Osaka Auto Masse that has got a whole bunch of engine bay footage, and some of those beasts are tuned beyond recognition.

Wicked, simply wicked...

TheCamel has a 400hp+ at the wheels 300zx, only internal mod is a copper head gasket. A comparison to the RB25DET is much more sensible.

Ok I am not sure where everyone seems to be an expert on the RB or VG. As far as not having a 300ZX with performance numbers close to that of a Skyline I find you are sadly mistaken. Escort Tuning currently has the fastest street driven 300ZX in Japan with over 827hp to the rear wheels. My 300ZX has 390-412rwhp depending on the dyno and runs a easy 12.85 in the 1/4 mile.
Current modifications include:

AVC-R boost controller (1.2 kilo of boost)
HKS Cat back exhaust
RS*R down pipes/cat eliminators
HKS Power Flo air filter
and a ROM tune

Basic tuning

nuff said

TC

the standard 300zx TT is a heavy piece of shit with shit gear ratios!

its spins the wheels in first gear then really boggs down through second ,third and fourth!

give me a gtr anyday of the week!!

I really don't know a heap about the 300Z except I have seen quite a few with broken cranks sitting at Advanced imports. I know they are a nightmare to work on, it seems pulling 50% of the engine apart just to do anything makes it for a mechanical pile.

I know they go very well. I have been in a couple and have seen some throw some serious poke on a dyno, but if your comparing it to the GTR your silly, stupid, and thick. Maybe from a rolling start there is not much in a stock standard GTR vs a mildly tuned Z but tune them both and the GTR will have it for lunch. Kai you should know better than anyone else.

VG30DETT is not very good. I'm being nice here, too.

RB26DETT is king. Pull them both apart and it is easy to see why.

The design differences are like chalk and cheese.

In order to make reliable and respectable power from each, the RB26 will require far less modification, whereas the VG30 will require massive internal strengthening and bolstering.

Count all the high output VG30's in Japan and compare that number to high output RB26's. QED.

Mario.

how come nobodies mentioned the nice MKIVTT? :D i don't know the engine code for the Supra TT...

The code for the Supra TT is 2JZ-GTE. Great motor, on our shop car with a T-78, and HKS ignition components, stock internals, ran a 10.6 @ 135. This is in a car with full interior, a/c, radio, everything. I've got some awesome in-car footage of the car going down the 1/4.
Oh, yeah. It's an automatic.
As far as the VG30, they are a b*tch to work on! :D
Doing any type of custom turbo work on the Z is a dreaded task.
Long live the RB26DETT!!!

Im no nissan owner(maybe a GTR in the near future:))but i know that when you're comparing the RB and the VG...the RB is THE engine!

i wont say much but im a loyal in-line 6 fan...here's why..

http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/lancia/58/technical_school/engine/smooth3.htm#Inline-6

and i read an article in sport compact car saying that the VG30DETT's counter balancer's tend to let go(!)...and they have water passage problems as well...if im not mistaken(please correct me if im wrong here),the VG30DE has oil jets but the DETT doesnt!..weird eh..there's even some problem with the water passage in the block...try check out sport compact car magazine's old issues..you'll see what i mean..

Weak points?Id say...to buy performance parts for the RB26 engine,you really need lots of limbs to get those.:D

You guys should compare the 2JZ-GTE to the RB26DETT

Dude I was speaking from experience....a couple of years ago at a Lotus car club drag day I got toasted by a Z that was running 12.1....thats enuff proof for me....cant beat first hand experience. Now considering that Mark and Joe could only manage low 12's at the night drags on friday I think I can stand by what I said. I do agree however they are crap cars to work on.....hmm maybe there are a few broken z cranks at AI because there are 1000's of Z's in this country compared to a few GTR's btw I know of a few broken GTR's as well :)

Originally posted by GTS-4 Ben
I never said they weren't a good engine, just that the Stock 300ZX TT is pretty pathetic..

Sure they go damn good when tuned.

Give me a RB26DETT anyday though.

And as for my 2L beating it. I run 14.0, any 300ZX TT I have ever seen at the drags dosn't come close.

I had a go in one from Japan. It had all the HKS gear, huge single turbo. After driving it, it just wasn't acting like a car with that much crap on it should be.. so we grabbed the HKS EVC/VPC/FCON/ etc off it.

I have also seen some monsters though.

In my opinion though the 300ZX is an ugly duckling..

You have to take into account of 4WD at the drags though!

Zapf

gangstarr...i believe the 2JZGTE is the closest rival to the RB26DETT when it comes to all out power with stock bottom end(maybe better).....another rival is from germany....the M3 engine.
another engine that's starting to get attention is the little brother of the 2JZ ..the 1JZ...JMS australia extracted crazy hp levels with stock bottom end!....

Im not sure bout the RB25DET though...


How bout 4 cylinders?i believe these are the candidates:4G63,SR20DET,3S-GTE,H22A,EJ20T...
(candidates must be engine without MASSIVE block preparation..eg fitting iron sleeves/block guard to B16,18C engines)

my favorite is the 3S-GTE and SR20DET...id take the 3S-GTE since its an iron block(heavy but stronger just like the RBs)and i like the Bore and stroke configuration(86x86).


ur pick?

the Z32 should only have one type of motor as this smart japanese guy figured out.

http://meggala.com/drags1/z23rb252.jpg

enough said
meggala

Originally posted by topgear

How bout 4 cylinders?i believe these are the candidates:4G63,SR20DET,3S-GTE,H22A,EJ20T...


i'm not familiar with all those codes, can you tell us which ones belong to which cars?

gangstarr,


4G63:is from the Mitsubishi lancer evo 1-7 road and rally car(although evo4,5,6 & 7 are different because the gearbox is now at the passenger side compared to the evo1,2,3,galant VR4,and eclipse)...passenger side as in left hand side.Currently fastest 4 cylinder 4x4 in the 1/4 mile run(8.8secs)

SR20DET:is from the Nissan Bluebird SSS,Nissan Sylvia S13,S14,S15 200SX,Pulsar GTiR.JUNauto made a drag 200SX(RWD) which ran an 8.8secs in the 1/4 mile run.

3S-GTE:is from the Toyota Celica All-trac,version ST-165,185,205 and 215(toyota caldina).Used the the World Rally Championship with great success.HKS made a drag celica FWD doing 9secs in 1998(?)first to reach the 9s.

H22A:is from the Honda Prelude,Accord SiR(japan only).Never used in motorsport(pls correct me)but used to great effect when it comes to drag racing,first to reach the 8sec..

EJ20T:is from the subaru impreza WRX,as used in the World rally championship.Lots of tuning parts from australia..i dare to say australia has LOTS of fast scoobys around.Australia currently holds the world record for the quickest subaru in the world(10.03secs@143mph without NOS but @ 35psi or more)


theres another engine which i forgot to mention.Its the cosworth engines from Ford.It is one of the most successful touring car engine around.very strong bottom end(In the 1992 bathurst 1000 race, they ran something like 60psi(!)for the qualifying...and i actually saw the boost level during the endurance race through the telemetry from a video...2.8-3 bar!)


care to name others?


please correct me if there's any mistake somewhere.:)



Cheers

Topgear,

I think the MKIV supra motor is substantially stronger than the GTR motor.

I can't count any stock bottom ended GTR's motors running 9's with terminal speeds in excess of 150mph! :)

It's still got the standard h-pattern gearbox too!

http://www.turboimports.com

I've got a video of it doing it's run somewhere on my pc too.

matt

Bullshit.

The 2JZ is a very good motor, yes. But it's bottom end is not as good as the RB26's.

It has the same problem that the RB30's have (infact, it is identical in bore and stroke to the RB30) in that the stroke is too long and puts way too much side loading on the pistons and also has too great a velocity on the rotating assemblies and thus can't rev high nor hard.

If you destroked the 2JZ to something between the 1JZ (~2500cc) and the 2JZ (~3000cc) to around 2600-2700cc, you'd have a much better motor - but then the problem becomes the heads themselves and their nowhere near as refined as the RB26's.

Both motors, if built up to the max, will be able to provide huge power and be reliable, yes. But the RB26 wins out as it comes with most of the modifications required for big sustained HP (oil and water pumps and flow galleries for one example) stock.

I have several RB26's and 2JZ's. Some of them even make respectable power levels - so I'm not talking out of my ass like some people.

Mario.

Amen Mario! :rolleyes:

RB26 is an amazing engine.

Why bullshit? There are enough stock motor'd supra's running well in to the 10's to back what I'm saying.

Are we talking standard here, or in a worked capacity?

I would have thought the supra would have been able to sustain a higher power figure purely due to its increased capacity over a RB26.

LOL - from what I can see, that's where you do most of your talking! :)

matt

Show me even 5 of these Supra's running supposedly in the 10's with stock engines then.

Where is your proof?

Your thinking that cubic capacity is all that is required shows you haven't got a fucking clue as to what your talking about.

New board, a new lot of total morons to deal with.

Mario.

The Supra is known to have one of the strongest stock engines available, those engines can take a hell of alotta power.

I have no doubt that it is stronger than the GTR engine.... but the GTR is still better IMO

Originally posted by brendonm
I read an article sometime back on the 300ZX NZ Club website how there was this race between a GTR and a 300ZX and there was'nt a lot in it. Actually hold on, that was you aye Kai :) hee hee hee... Man that made for some great reading...

In terms of engine capability the 2.6 litre twin turbo does well for itself considering the relative displacement difference. One would think that in theory the extra capacity should see the VG series engine eat the RB, but the RB26DETT does quite well for itself considering the numbers. I think that this says a lot for the RB series of engine.

The VG30DETT series are an excellent engine, 3 litre V6 twin turbo.
The RB26DETT series are an excellent engine, 2.6 litre in-line 6 twin turbo.
A comparison does'nt really make sense unless you are comparing an out of the box block, as every engine is in such varied states of tune. I have only heard good things about them both really.
Usually the bad stories come from things like idiots winding up huge amounts of boost without addressing the issue of containing it all. I know one guy (Monty) with an R33 GTR who dialled up 26 pounds, with nothing else done to the engine except for airfilters and he was suprised to blow his turbos. What suprised me is that he was 'suprised' :rolleyes:

I agree with both votes that the RB and VG series engines are a good strong engine. I reckon that common sense tuning through research and incremental testing (not overloading during testing) is key in making the engine what it is, and producing an effective state of tune.
(Although in saying that same engines just seem possessed - like Kai's! although that tapu totara must've helped)

damn... you seriously know what your talking about!
I agree... they BOTH are good engines for what they are... you cant really compare the two against each other as they are different types of engines!... why doesnt someone compare apples with apples!

Originally posted by topgear


Im not sure bout the RB25DET though...


ur pick? [/B]


Well FYI, I currently have a Stock RB-25DET that is pushing approx 400hp at the flywheels. So wait till something breaks! ;)

Zapf

I can't believe the idiots arguing with Mario..

The only country that mods the Supra so much is America simply because they cant get the GTR..

In Japan and New Zealand there is probably twice as many fast GTR's than Supra's. I know in my small town of Christchurch there are several damn quick GTR's, and I don't think there is one Supra that comes close to even breaking 13's... even though the cars are evenly matched price wise..

GTR is king..

MarioGTR,

I'm not going to waste a half an hour looking up supras doing these times. Go to MKIV.com and have a look for yourself.

Did you hear me say that cubic capacity was all there was to do with it? Talk about taking people out of context. I said that would help!

My current car is a skyline (33 gts with 206rwkw - not fast by your standards, but for now I'm happy with it), my next car will be a skyline (r34 gtr), but believing that it's the best bar none is just naiive.

How about you grow up and act your age! Anyone would think you were 13 with the attitude you have!! Fuck man, we're all here for the same reason - because we love skylines.

BTW - I've been on SDU for over a year.

GTS4,

Man you are a zealot aren't you! Did you see me once put down the GTR? FYI - The american supra has better turbos (with steel wheels), bigger injectors and different camshafts... The jap spec supra's are slow because they don't have these same mods, and they've got the crappy ceramic exhaust wheel on em.

matt

MarioGTR,

D'oh - Looking @ my last post - I can see how you've taken me out of context about the engine capacity!

Made sense when I wrote it, but looking at it now, I can see how it's come off...

The capacity definitely helps it make those big numbers tho.

matt

MarioGTR,

i have to agree on you about the 2JZ's high piston acceleration/velocity due to the long stroke design of the crank...

but i was wondering what about the OS giken's 3.0 long rod RB26 kit?what are the advantages of long rod?I know it requires a spacer on the deck of the block:)

btw,since the 2JZ and RB26 share the same bore diameter,do they have the same valve diameter on the inlet and exhaust?

does the 2JZ share the same valve diameter with the 3S-GTE?



zapf,sounds like another strong motor from the RB series.:)

I am not getting into the whole RB26 vs. 2JZ discussion considering the fact that I have zero experience working on a Skyline.
However, to dramatically increase the horsepower figures for the Supra, all that is basically required is to increase it's airflow capabilities and the ignition system. Our race car is an internally stock motor with a T-78 single turbo. We are constantly running 1.4 bar of boost. This has been good for a 10.6 @ 135 mph.

Originally posted by SpeedAddict

increase it's airflow capabilities and the ignition system.

So you are trying to tell me running 1.4bar on a T-78 with standard internals.. how long is it expected to last?

but saying that, I have seen GTR's with ceramic turbo's replaced with Steel wheels, exaust, filter, clutch and a good amount of boost run low 11's...

Ok, here is a message I get sent to me from another forum, so I thought I'd set you straight - and everyone else on here.

Quote:

;-----

LOL mario knows everything!

I've never chatted with a man that's more up himself. If you have an opinion different to him, he'll just call you names.

According to him the RB26 is the best designed motor ever bar none.

Oh and by the way - he didn't build a thing - he's just got lots of money to pay people to do things for him...

One word to best describe him - wanker!

matt

;-----

Your entitled to your *opinions*. I'll stick to proven engineering *facts*.

I never said the RB26 was the best motor ever built. Once again, you not only fail to read what even you have written, but your effectively putting words (i.e.: bullshit) that I didn't say and touting them as coming from me.

I pay grease monkeys to do what I say. I select what to do and why to do it, I just can't be assed to do it myself - and why should I? I have far better things to do with my time.

It is nice to know that I don't have to bother replying to your posts in future. Atleast when I say something about someone, I'll say it to them in public.

I think your a jealous pissant with no real engineering experience - and your immature posts go towards proving it.

For the record: The RB26 is a very good engine, better than the VG series (which is what this thread was originally about) and in my testing, also better than the JZ. Nowhere did I say it is the best production engine in the world. That honour, most probably, goes to the S220.

Grow up.

Mario.

haha, wankers!

Everyone is a friggen expert!, well I only know one guy with a site about his car, with video's etc.. who isn't afraid to tell it how it is... not make up stories..

... what is a S220.. excuse my ignorance.

The BMW S220 is the engine in the McLaren F1 road car. It was also the same engine (albeit modified) that was used in the first few tests by the BMW Formula 1 car in simulated race conditions.

The engine is a work of art, naturally aspirated, 6064cc, V12.

It uses an 86mmx87mm bore and stroke (note the use of an 86mm bore - there are real engineering reasons as to why well designed engines, like both the RB and JZ, also use this bore size).

All up they are capable of making some ~620 to 670~ BHP depending upon the state of tune and fuel used.

Mario.

love the s220 engine in that case... love it :)

Oh yeah!. NICE!

V12.. 6L damn that is one mighty engine.

And? You did do that didn't you? I posted a reply to someone earlier, and you replied with a childish insult. Hence where we are now.

Well the way you were writing your messages, it's fairly easy to come to that conclusion.

I never claimed to be an engineer - not my field of expertise - I'll stick with computers. And yes - I'd love to have as much money as you and as many cars - but thats never going to happen... Jealous - no.

Good on you for doing well, I still think you're a wanker.

matt

Bugger....cant stand by and listen to this crap any longer.

My opinion on RB26 vs VG30 is noted earlier in the thread...RB26 anyday!

As for the remaining shit slinging I have a little suggestion...PUT UP OR SHUT THE F**K UP. Now to the best of my knowledge there is only one bloke in this argument who has had the balls to have done so thus far...video evidence of dyno runs, photographic evidence of most every other step in the process and has not been afraid to admit the odd disaster in the process.

When anyone else feels they can match the achievements and has the guts to prove it rather than just spouting about it then bring it on.

Mario. Keep on it, you're an inspiration to us GTR lads down here in kiwiland.

Ray

Read back through the forums and you can see your original post, and my reply to it.

You posted utter crap that had no basis in fact and I told you outright you were talking bullshit.

You admit yourself that you haven't got a fucking clue as to what your talking about when it comes to engines (I quote: "it isn't your field of expertise") yet you still feel confident to pay out on others that clearly do.

So, I'm a wanker in your eyes, wow, some piss ant 22 year old thinks badly of me. I suggest that you just stick to your computers, maybe with overclocking Athlons you'll have more luck.

Mario.

Why is it that internet chat always seems to bring out the 5 year old in people can't you guys grow up and not shit stir ?

Not pointed at anyone just a general comment

Now back to the debate alot of thoes Supra's you see running in the states us lots of NOS where as the Jap's don't us NOS as much.

:rolleyes: Wow..

Still think your are an idiot if you argue with someone you know has done more on the subject than you..

While your at it Matt tell Mario a better way to get 1000kw.. Wanker... hell if I had someone saying I was talking shit about what I do alot of I would be pissed off too..

GTR ALL THE WAY.!

Ben

So has everyone finnish venting yet? :o :)

I was wondering what is there to stop me from making my RB25 into a RB26? Any forseeable issues? like strength of crank / rods? Is the main weakness or stress point here the rod?

Mario, have you heard of a guy in Japan putting S2000 pistons into GTR's? as they have similar bore size. And what do you think of the S2000 piston.

Cheers
Zapf

Utter crap? WTF are you talking about. We've already got someone in this thread who has built a supra running these times with a stock motor.

Nuff said.

My eyes *laughs*.

OMG you're a funny man... Overclock my athlon hahah I'm killing myself. As I said. Wanker.

matt

GTS4-Ben,

Are you retarded?!?!?! You surely must be. I never told him how to build the f'n thing. Good on him for trying.

I said that the supra in stock form is stronger than the gtr motor. Read my posts moron.

PS - I feel much better now that I've vented! :)

matt

Zapf,

BTW - On a more technical note - The Rods seem to be the weak point in the RB25 motors... off the top of my head the bore is the the same b/w the two motors, but if you do the rods and pistons together, won't that up the compression, or am I off? A nice 1.6mm metal head gasket would probably help there I guess.

Don't know enuf about the crank to say either way.

matt

Originally posted by zapf
I was wondering what is there to stop me from making my RB25 into a RB26? Any forseeable issues? like strength of crank / rods? Is the main weakness or stress point here the rod?

Matt are you are retard... have you actually Got a Supra?? Or even worked on one..

Or are you just going on info from some Forum?