Is The RB 26 DETT a very good Engine ??

Originally posted by matlowth
Zapf,

BTW - On a more technical note - The Rods seem to be the weak point in the RB25 motors... off the top of my head the bore is the the same b/w the two motors, but if you do the rods and pistons together, won't that up the compression, or am I off? A nice 1.6mm metal head gasket would probably help there I guess.

Don't know enuf about the crank to say either way.

matt



Thanks for repeating what I said. The reason I asked if the Rods would be the issue with upping capacity to 2.6L is that it would make the engine slightly longer stroked. Hence a higher piston speed, hence more stress on the rods. Not that I have compaired GTR rods with 25T rods, but if that is all it takes to make it a 2.6L engine because of the shorter rods then I'll do that and perhaps get some light weight pistons as well.

A 1.6mm metal head gasket, would lower the compression and let me run more boost. But is that what I want when I would like to retain engine responce on a engine with a single GT30 turbo setup?


Cheers
Zapf

I await to be corrected.

WoWo!

First things first...

I'm the one who brought up the VG30. NEVER said it should be in the GTR, rather that it probably would have for the American market due to positioning of the RB26 and the Turbos. Purely hypothetical. By NO means did I ever even mention that it is a better engine, only a fool would tell himself such non-sense..

The 2JZ-GTE. 3.0L, oh goodness! Great motor. There are PLENTY of 10 sec Supras here in the US. I know, I'm an American. We even had a movie where the Supra is the star(there is a Skyline in it too for all the haters). The US Supra is a different Car than the J-Spec one. Bigger stock turbos for one, larger injectors, different cams, and Larger brakes. Cars are rated at a Stock 320HP. There are even 7 sec Supras pushing well over 1000HP. The 2JZ is a very stong motor and can handle upwords of 600HP on a stock bottom end. They are very much street cars. Some are even daily drivers. 10 sec is easily obtainable to some one willing to spend about 4K here. The car is 13 sec out the box. Don't belive me, I could care less if you belive me...

I have never worked on an RB26, but I hear they are a pain in the ass.. Still probably the stongest and smoothest I6 out there next to the 2JZ, 1JZ and the BMW I6..

On the note of V12s...Good Bye M-Power, Hello Northstar! 750HP. Oh hell yeah! The US does have what it takes to make a good motor after all! Thanks GM! It's been 30 years at least, but you finally did it! How bout a nice DOHC V8 or W8? It's really time to update the Z06 and F-Body power plants...

GTRs are THE SHIT, but I would never say no to a Supra TT...

Peace
GTR33

here we go again!!!

my opinion...GTR...all day...even if you say the US spec Supra is better overall...ill take the GTR all day...*my opinion*
and yes,i havent driven both of them but common sense tells me that 4x4 is the thing when it comes to traction...

my reason for this is pure because i love the engine configuration(86mm(B) x 73.7mm(S)),it has 4x4 which only transmit power to the front wheel when needed...and it loves to rev!:)

take a 600hp supra and 600hp skyline GTR and meet up @ a circuit..name the weather id take the skyline GTR....yes..you may say your supra is disadvantaged by the skyline GTR because the GTR has 4x4...*fact* is...its built like that...complain?ask the toyota engineers..


again i say...my opinion...i just hope everyone else out there respect each individual's opinion...i see things that way..




Cheers


ps:the other I6 i like is the M3's 6...great engine...have u guys seen the valve guide?it's not like other valve guide..it doenst stick out in the port like other engines(maybe:))...this is to improve port flow area...

Supra will have more torque coming out of corners and going up hills.

Zapf,
Your car sounds awesome. What is the current item limiting more hp (turbo?). I was lucky enough to be taken for a ride in a Zeni Tani prepped GTS-t (engine bay shown a couple of times in ZOOM) with 255rwkw. It was awesome, it was running a HKS GT3037 turbo, external wastegate, 8 grand redline and by the idle the cams weren't stock. The importer ran a 12.5 in it in street trim (Jap road/drag tyres) with wheel spin in first 2nd and 3rd.

I have began building my car as a show (my business) / circuit car. As such I am looking at using the RB30 bottom end. What is the consenses on this? My goal is between 250 and 300rwkw, without sacrificing bottom end (don't want to lower compression, want to keep boost to 20psi or lower).

Jeff.

Jeff,
I am running a GT30 turbo that works up to around 600hp. So that is not the issue. Issue is the engine itself. Apart from the cams its fully standard. :D The amount of power is not bad for a standard engine at all. I have a 1.6mm metal head gasket sitting at home. Which will lower the compression to 8.5:1 . I would like to keep the engine as it is if possible. Just too expensive to open it up. As I'll be tempted to get pistons and rods and do everything else!
How much boost was the car running? I get 233rwkW at 7000rpm running 1Bar boost. So if they are running 20psi and 8000rpm I am sure I can match it and maybe beat it. As I have all the other bolt on bits to take it to around 5~600hp.

Yea get the RB30 bottom end, its much easier to get more power with more Cubes then more boost.

Cheers
Zapf

Disclaimer: I'm just parroting an online article...

http://www.autospeed.co.nz/A_1200/page1.html

Email me if you have trouble accessing it...

Topgear: Never said the Supra was a better car... So I don't know who you are argueing with...The statement was for the people who don't think high power Supras are real and easy to obtain...If I thought that the Supra was a better car than the GTR, why whould I be here? FYI the Skyline is not a 4X4 vehicle. Vehicles that allow YOU to choose either RWD or AWD are 4X4. The Skyline is RWD most of the time then it kicks into AWD when traction is a problem. But the thing is that all of the rotational mass and parasitic drag are still there. So a 600HP GTR will make less power at the wheels than a 600HP Supra...There are too many variables to just say a 600HP will Beat a 600HP Supra... How the car makeing 600? Just a big Turbo, or more sophisticated tuning? A car with just a large Turbo will make 600, but only at the extreme top end...
Disadvantaged? No... AWD causes more drivetrain loss at the topend then it helps...
I love the GTR, but they are not unconkable... I have seen it done.. Loss to Supras, NSXs, 1 RX-7 and I even saw a McLaren F1 lay the smack down on an R34 and a Supra TT. Check the JGTC GT500 standings... Too bad the Xanavi/Hiroto or the Pennzoil/Zexel cars didn't do better.:(
Check the Sig man... If you look hard you can even see the Calsonic Supra and the Denso/Sard Supra.. All the best cars in one Sig...

Peace
GTR-33

GTR 33,

"FYI the Skyline is not a 4X4 vehicle."


read again...:)

"it has 4x4 which only transmit power to the front wheel when needed"

"But the thing is that all of the rotational mass and parasitic drag are still there".-->i agree with you..

ive got a video from japan called best motoring where they tested a 600ps GTR against the veilside 700ps Supra..1/4 mile..the GTR takes it..but 1km stretch..the supra overtakes the GTR...but when the supra went against the Mclaren F1...hell the supra LOOKS absolutely stupid in the 1/4 mile run..the F1 ran an 11.1 sec on the 0-400m sprint .the supra was running like high 12s..all this cars used street legal semi slicks..the real world tyres..

and FYI,all the GT500 supra's are using the TRD spec 3S-GTE engines,NOT the 2JZ-GTE..and the chassis is way different when compared to production models...ive seen the cars in front of me during the roadshow for the JGTCC race here in Sepang International Circuit,Malaysia.

my opinion:))



cheers



ps:GTR 33,do you know any info about the 3S-GTE and 2JZ-GTE valve sizes...i wonder if they're the same size..?

MFX_33 -

Actually - I'm pricing up exactly the same project (rb30 bottom end, 25 head).

Looking at leaving the head stock for the time being, and then do the head and a big fat turbo at the same time when my bank balance has recovered from the shock of the first outlay :) I'd probably put something along the lines of a 600hp GT3040 with a smaller exhaust housing.

There's a number of people doing this setup at the moment. It seems fairly popular.

As with the RB25's, apparently the Rods in the RB30 aren't all that strong. The 26 rods are much stronger.

matt

Hey man, the Skyline is not a Truck. Its has AWD. Since you can't choose when it activates, its not a 4X4. 4X4 dirvetrains and AWD drivetrains are not the same...

I know that the JGTC Supras use the 3S-GTE, its for better weight distrobution... Its the only thing that lets the Supra even come close to takeing a Skyline in the turns. That 3.0 is damn heavy!
Don't know too much about the valves. I heard they are very similar, being that the two are both race engines.. Why do you ask?

I was just giving examples of all the cars that have conked out a Skyline. About the Skyline not winning JGTC, it didn't lose to Supras, It lost to NSXs. The first place one (Arta NSX) was driven by the 'Drift King'....

Peace
GTR-33

Zapf,
How laggy is the GT30 (is it Garret or HKS spec?) on your car, as I am still looking for the turbo for mine.

I'm not sure what boost the cat was running as it didn't have a boost gauge. Not sure on internals either. I know the car was not running properly at the time due to Jap tuning and Aussie fuel, aswell as having a leaking exhaust manifold. They mentioned this car again in the latest ZOOM and said the tuning was nasty which was restricting peak power levels.

I was a passenger in the car doing 250 km/h on a short stretch of road and it got there so easily, with 4 people in the car. He then easily did a burnout (with the road/drag tyres) in 2nd gear.

I loved it and offered to swap him for my realatively stock one but he didn't go for it (prick:D ).

Matt - I have been looking at the RB30 bottom end as I do alot of track days at Wakefield and I want a car that is still driveable everyday (not a laggy, all top end drag engine). I was thinking of just rebuilding the RB30 with some tough RB30 rods, are the rb26's compatable? Cheeper option? I already have the intercooler piping and pluenum being custom made, and have lined up a Power FC. I'll have to see how I go.

Jeff.

P.S. As mentioned before about the 300ZX Between my brother and myself we have owned 4 of them 2 being turbos. The standard TT 300ZX will annihilate any stock GTS-t, they do around a flat 14 in stock form. My brother has just sold his Nismo plated one which was dynoed as soon as he got it into the country at 234kw at the wheels. That car was an animal (as seen at Adelaide Auto Salon, Nismo blue with cracked silver arse end).
From my experience with these cars we have always had problems with them and they are a nightmare to work on. Nice cars WHEN they are running.

mfx, theres no way a stock 300zxtt could kil a r33gts-t. u must b dreaming.

they have very similar 1/4 mile times:bloated:

MFX_R33,
GT30 is not laggy at all. And I am sure you'll say the same about my car if you got a ride.... :)

My car is more of a open road / country road setup than a Drag car. Its build along the lines of a Targa / circuit car.

Cheers
Zapf

good engine. good power. good strength/reliability. not in North America. :(

Zapf,
Your car sounds like it's set up similarly to what I am looking for. Have you run it on the quater mile yet? What A/R housings are on your GT30?

By the way I was just told yesterday that Zeni Tani GTS-t is still for sale for $26k. I would love to sell mine and get it but I don't have the difference at the moment, Damn:mad: :( !

Jeff.

My two cents is that a stock 300ZXTT will beat a stock 33GTS-t much as I would like to think otherwise. Since everybody is at it. can anyone say if you can fit an RB26DETT on a 300ZX? To be more specific, how much of a pain would it be? Thanks!:smoker2:

I've owned both a 300zx TT and an R33GTS-t and have run them together aswell. The 300ZX was always quicker but the Skyline is a much nicer car, thats why I still have it.

Jeff.

is this vg30 fan on drugs or what.
i reckon its as simple as this in standard form they are ok if you can handle oil leaks,blown turbos,headgaskets the list goes on.in standard form there is no comparison,reliable muscle compared with big repair bills.but the other side of the coin.spend 10-15k on either and you will have 2 600-700hp engines that will run allday.from experience with both these engines in standard form or lite tune the rb26 wins hands down.but once you pile heaps of bucks into either its much of a muchness.

I cant beleive a person would ask this question!!!!
I also cant beleive that somebody could say a 300zx engine is better!!!
The RB26DETT is quicker for many reasons.
The main reason being:
The twin turbo set up is the same as any single turbo cars, except for the fact that theres two of them, compared to the VG30DETT which runs a sequential turbo setup which means there is a small turbo to spool up quickly to reduce lag, and a larger turbo to produce higher boost. A good concept for smooth acceleration and less lag, ALTHOUGH...when the first (smaller) turbo peaks out, the second (larger) turbo cannot possibly work to its best potential because the smaller turbo is restricting the amount of air which is being forced through it. Therefore the twin turbo setup on a 300 is SHIT compared to an RB26DETT beast.
ALSO.........THe RB26DETT has forged pistons, and other strenthened internals which make it handle higher revs and more boost much more comfortably than a VG30DETT.
This is directed to the smartass who doesnt know what hes saying about the VG30 being better than the RB26

I dont know about an rb26 but I have a picture of an rb25 which is close enough or I've seen a pic of an sr 20 in there as well.
cheeers
meggala

rb25 in 300zx
http://www.meggala.com/drags1/z23rb252.jpg

compared to the VG30DETT which runs a sequential turbo setup which means there is a small turbo to spool up quickly to reduce lag, and a larger turbo to produce higher boost.

VG30DETT dont have sequential turbos...

You are right, The VG30DETT is NOT a sequential turbo setup........How could it be it is a V6.
Think about it......In order for it to work it would need pipes for Africa! It, Like the RB26 runs one turbo per 3 pistons. If it ran sequential, 3 pistions would run out of puff as the other 3 kicked in on the bigger turbo.

I am a Zed man and will allways be a zed man, but i also feel that the RB26 is the better engine. i know the 300zx has alot of weaknesses but still has great potential. im in Australia and over here there is a circuit 300zx that is unbeatable by any skyline that runs and is now running high 10's down the 1/4. go to www.nismo.com.au to check it out. if anything everone is heading in the wrong direction. I feel the RX-7 TT is the strongest engine and has the most potential. some of the roatry powerd engins here in aus are breaking into 6 and 7 seconds. Street legal RX-7's are pulling easy 9's.

ummm.... yea, as for the vg's being weak, well i cant say, but i can say the have great potential, i have a vg30dt, the single turbo SOHC motor, and it has balls, but to say it's better then the rb26, no, it would take soooo much work to make the rb26's number on a vg motor, lets not kid oursleves here....