1996 Windstar 3.8 engine swap, what's compatable?

I have a 1996 Windstar 3.8 with a bad bottom end knock.....probably a rod knock. Due to the age and mileage (160K) of this vehicle, a rebuilt engine is not practical.........more money for engine than van is worth! I'd like to install a used 3.8 but have not located a lower mileage 1996 or 1997 engine that I understand is a direct swap. I read in a forum that a 1998 will swap using my upper intake and fuel rail from the 1996 engine. A 1999-2000 will swap if I also change the lower intake and oil pan from the 1996. Is this information correct? What about 2001 or later engines? I prefer using a later /lower mileage engine that I can swap parts over! Thanks in advance for any help! Jerry

Repair decisions have to be based on what is expected of the vehicle. Is it to be used for its "market value", in a trade-in perhaps.... not justifying much effort or expenditure? Or is it to be your "ride", and therefore should be made safe and reliable?

I have an '83 Escort. It's been a "keeper". It's engine has its second (costly?) rebuild ... at nearly a half million miles. All systems are in well maintained order. If necessary, I would not hesitate to jump in and ride cross country and back.

The market value? Probably not half of what was paid for its Michelins.

Thanks for your input, I was planning on selling this vehicle soon and didn't plan on the expense of another engine. Nothing about this vehicle is prestine, and value looks to be in the $1200-$1500 range due to overall condition of vehicle being in "fair shape". Long blocks are running close to the value of the vehicle, therefore I need to stick with a used engine due to circumstances! Used 3.8 engines are running $500-$750.00 for 1996-2002. The conclusion I have come to with the labor involved of a engine swap and the little difference in used engine cost is to install a later model, lower mileage engine that will hopefully give me good service for the next year or so and help to prop up the resale value with the newer model engine installation! :)

Then I would trade now, if at all possible, and avoid the possible grief. You will likely never recover the costs of fooling with it. Its not an easy car to work on or buy good service for.

Again, thank you for your input. Your right about not easy to work on. :banghead: Spent most of the day getting the engine ready to drop. Probably will have the engine on the ground by lunch tommorrow. Still need info on compatablity of later model engines! :grinyes:

Its kinda scary to suggest that another year model engine might work. If you look for 3.8L part numbers (Motorcraft.com) for model years 1995, 1996, and 1997; you see three completely different numbers. So I would think the swap approach is very risky.

If you want to read some more on how engines differ year to year, see:.
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar90134.htm
.
If you have the engine on the ground, you've accomplished a lot. Do you have a trustworthy engine machine shop that you could turn the engine (or "short block") over to for a rebuild?

Great link for the 3.8 engine! Looks like the block, crank, cam and heads are all interchangable from 1996 to 2000!

The engine was tight before it started knocking, no exhaust smoke, even at cold cranking, so I feel the rings and valve guides are OK. I had thought about changing out rod and crank bearings only, that is if the journals looked OK. I really don't have the time to spend on a complete rebuild!

I think I found what may have caused the problem in the first place........coolant drip @ the timing cover! From post I have read, coolant can get into the oil from the faulty gasket.

Yeah, it is very possible to get a coolant leak into the short block thanks to the timing chain cover design. I hate coolant passages thru front covers. Why not design engine with "hose-arounds" the cover for the coolant ... and not go thru the cover? But they didn't ask me!

I'd rather have timing belts ... if this is the best they could come up with.

I bet you're going to be able to eliminate your engine knock with a little work on the bottom end.

Good luck!

jbroxton (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=445258), I'd like to see that link you referred to in your post. I'm sort of in the same boat. I've got a 2000 Windstar with 156K miles that the tranny's slipping in and a motor that's eating about a quart of oil every 2 weeks. Still feels tight and has plenty of power but pings when it's under a load like a hill. If I'm going to pull one, I may as do the other at the same time. Like you, I'd like to go to a newer motor. How hard was it to drop the engine out the bottom? I've got all the tools except an engine hoist. A can buy one of those. I never met a tool I didn't want.

I found the link on "ask" by typing in windstar engine swap, however it only talked about the 96-00 models. Nothing was mentioned about later models.

Dropping out the engine requires removing the whole "craddle". I found that by disconnecting the lower strut, brake cylinders, etc., I could drop the craddle with the engine, transmission and complete steering assembly in tack without having to remove the driveshafts. I didn't need a engine lift. I let the van down from jack stands when I was ready to drop the craddle and set the craddle on top of a piano dolly with some 2x6's across the dolly the width of the craddle.....unbolted the craddle and started jacking up the body. I used a 4x6 oak across the chassis and jacked with a floor jack. As the van was raised, I used concrete block on either side of the 4x6 until I had the van high enough to slide out the engine. Just to let you know, the hood (open) likes about 1" touching the garage door opener on a 9' ceiling basement! The van was raised the height of 3 - 8x8x16 block plus a cap block plus a couple of 2x10 scrape boards I had laying around. Oh, I did back the van up on some ramps about a foot tall before I started the work. Thought the ramps would be more secure rather than using jack stands in the rear. One other hint. Remove the a/c compressor from the engine block and move it out of the way.......saves having to recharge the unit later. Good luck, Jerry

A couple of years ago, I rebuilt the 3.8 in our 98 windstar. Dropping the engine out the bottom looked like a lot of work, especially in jacking the body up high enough. So I pulled it out the top. It was a close fit, but not as aggravating as I had anticipated.

You have to have a lot of patience, but it was easier (to me) doing it this way. And the second time went a lot faster (when I pulled it to install the rear main oil seal that I found on the work bench:banghead: ).

IIRC, I had to remove the alternator, the power steering pump, the front exhaust manifold and the pulley from the crankshaft damper. I also removed the radiator and the crosspiece at the top of the radiator (that the hood latch mounts in). There will also be other pieces that you may have to move; you find them as you start lifting the engine.:iceslolan

Also, I did not remove any of the cowling. If you do that, it should be a little easier.

I have some pictures that I can post somewhere if you want to see them.

HTH,

johnnyb

As far as using a motor or transmission for a different year.....I would not want to even think of trying it.....unless you REALLY know what you are doing......an hence....would not be asking the question here.
The reason that I state this is......I have read a few posts on here of people having issues with replacement engines or transmissions that were supposed to be for their year.....
A small incompatability can result in a huge headache.
I totally understand the pain in the cost, and a cheaper solution is very tempting, but it is no help when it does not work.
IF not going with a genuine FORD replacement that is specifically listed for YOUR year and application, then some SERIOUS homework is in order.
For a "aftermarket" replacement that is listed for your year.....be suspicious if they list multiple years for the same unit, when FORD does not.
Also, deal with a reputable company.
I have read good things about Jasper, also expensive.
If dealing with a local shop...that is doing the work......they may have a company that they deal with....that they have good luck with....and a reputation with the company....so that they can get problems resolved, should they come up.

In the mean time.....if you are having to add coolant to the radiator/overflow bottle...even just a little now and then.......it is going somewhere, so get a sample of oil in to a lab for testing.......it will be the BEST $20-30 that you will ever spend on your vehicle.

And the second time went a lot faster (when I pulled it to install the rear main oil seal that I found on the work bench:banghead: ).


Had a good laugh at this one! That is so ME! I had to redrop an engine because of missing oil-artery plug.

I've decided to do the engine and transmission at the same time. My tranny slipping more all the time and with 156K+ miles on it (2000 Windstar) and all the posts on this and other sites about how bad they are, I guess I consider myself lucky.

My engine is still running well but with the common EGR codes and a noisy PS bearing. However, it's drinking about a quart of 5w30 every 1000 miles or so with no leaks that I can find, no smoking and no oil in the coolant or vice versa. Since I've got to do one, I may as well do it all. BTW, aside from the error codes, the brake pressure switch sending unit issue, and a very frustrating problem with a pin hole in the coolant Y-pipe, my Windstar has been very trouble free.

jbroxton (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=445258), if you don't mind, what did you do about your motor? Did you go the same year or upgrade?

Does anyone know of any other engine swap threads as mine is a 2000 and there are only 2 directly compatible years for my vehicle. It makes the available motors cost more and they always have higher mileage. I've done other swaps in other vehicles, (GM and Ford) and have found that even if it's not a direct swap, as long as the core block is the same, it's not that difficult to swap intakes, exhaust, sensors, etc. Any experience with that out there?

Wiswind, I know you don't wreck-o-mend it and I don't either without due diligence, but I'm looking for actual past experiences. I'm still not convinced I can get away with a 2001-2003 3.8 yet but I'm leaning in either that direction or rebuilding it myself but time is of the essence on this one.