Choosing between a like new 2003 LX or 2000 SE Windstar

This isn't one of those "tell me what to do" threads, but I do obviously like getting other people's opinions. The two vehicles I'm between now after looking at over 200+ available Windstars on the web over the weekend are:

2003 LX with SE like options w/VCR and alloy rims 57k miles for $8800 with TT&L; near new condition; immaculate interior and exterior; Runs great and smooth except for what I noticed about this one and the SE stated below

2000 SE with every option except power sliding doors and 48k miles for $9000 with TT&L; BEYOND immaculate SHOWROOM FLOOR QUALITY and in good shape in every way that I could tell except the following.... The coolant looked like swamp water sludge and on downshifts especially there is an odd slight hard erratic shift/shake like its catching wrong and you really had to pay attention to know it was there; I drove 85 miles to see this SE cause it was so just absolutely goregeous in every way. I asked them to check for oil leaks before I arrived there or else I wouldn't want it and they said they put it on a rack and didn't see any. I don't believe them now because there was a thin film of tranny or engine oil or both lining the tranny oil pan. It wasn't thick enough to drip, but it was there. I have seen another higher mileage 2000 SE that seemed to have the same exact problem near my hometown. In any case I'm so pissed cause I really wanted this SE to be the one I'd choose and simply for no other reason than the LX is white. lol - Other than that the SE drove smooth on accel usually, but again the SE and the LX both seemed slower to throttle response (maybe i'm too used to a sports car; which is possible) than my 95 GL did when it RAN !!

Either van would be purchased with a Ford warranty, but the dealership with the SE adds in a $200 BOSS PROFIT FEE (the sales woman admitted that) and their minimum 2 yr 24kmiles warranty starts at freaking $1950 and higher for the 3 yr whereas the one for the LX is like $1250 for 2 year and $1550 or so for the 3 year. As my mom would say it sonds like the SE dealership is out to get money, but as I've been thinking about it they are also willing to LIE to do so. Claiming they put the SE up on a rack and not finding that oil leak before I showed up is something I really don't believe now..... and what I found strnage was that the tranny oil was BRAND spanking new clean as a whistle whereas the COOLANT looks like sludge..... come'on what sense does that make? I didn't even look at the engine oil after I'd made these distinctions. Aside from the dealer being Shady and greedy lying bastards I really wanted the SE sooooooooooooooooooooo bad ..... ya'll have no idea (and this is all thanks to my Dad without whom I wouldn't even be looking a newer vans).

My big question is since I'd be getting the warranty do I delve into the repairing of the new SE immediately or "SCARED" is the warranty not really worth anything and they'd give me a hassle and repeat visit after visit until the damn thing is fixed right????? Anyone that may have purchased a warranty on a mid-range life vehicle may know the answer to that one.

OVERALL IMPRESSION OF THE NEWER GENERATION 3.8L WINDSTARS: Does anyone know if you'd lose the feeling of an additional 45 HP (in the 2nd gen Windstars 96-98 and 3rd gen 99-03) due to an added 304lbs (looked it up) of curb weight? It seems like this 304lbs would be noticeable , but that I should still notice a significant increase in power with an additional 45hp from my test drives today of the 2000 SE and 2003 LX models. :) Again, throttle response in these models seemed slower than my 95 GL so I am not so happy with how the SE or the LX got off the line. I'm not looking for this FEATURE, but I can actually peel out in my 95 GL. I couldn't do that with the LX or SE though I couldn't really SPORTS CAR drive it with the damn car saleswoman in the vehicle too. I did punch it from a dead stop a couple times, but not as fast a pedal hit as I would've tried if she wasn't in the car.Though it seemed smooth and ran great to accel...it has power...... just didn't seem to accel AS FAST as my 95 GL... I don't know what this means or if its just an illusion or what. Again, I really wanted the SE to be good to go...... we could purchase a Ford warranty.... but then I am starting all over again with repair work. I don't want to have to go through that again at the same time what if it actually IS something simple for a change and I'm passing up on a wonderful vehicle - UGG I HATE THAT. The only thing that I can find wrong with the 2003 LX was the color.... WHITE..... BLAAAAAAAAAAaa...... Don't like White on a van.... too mommy for me.... but I can ignore it cause it was a great vehicle too.

Both SE and LX will cost 8800 - 9000 in the end of it all.

New engine in my current GL van would be approximately $2400 - $3000 total, but if I throw in things they really should do while doing all this (like a/c system flush/recharge, new a/c compressor pulley/clutch kit, tie rods, bushings, steering stuff etc..) it'll obviously go up a bit. The only reason I'd say to do all that stuff would be cause if I'm going to put in a new engine I'd want it to run like NEW ALL the way around.

Sorry I wrote so much. I always have too much to say. lol

If I'd just listen to my GUT I would nix the SE as an option and it would be between a new engine in my GL or getting the WHITE (blaa) 2003 LX. That'd be kinda neat going from 1 end of the Windstar spectrum to the total other.... 95 (1st year produced) vs 2003 (last year produced).

With a used vehicle.....condition is king.
In Theory, newer is better, but again.....condition of the vehicles is the main thing.
Options are nice, but not a replacement for mechanical soundness.
It might be worth having your mechanic look the vehicle over to help you decide.

With a used vehicle.....condition is king.
In Theory, newer is better, but again.....condition of the vehicles is the main thing.
Options are nice, but not a replacement for mechanical soundness.
It might be worth having your mechanic look the vehicle over to help you decide.

In either vehicle's case I'd have to drive 40 - 80 miles to let my mechanic look the vehicle over. I guess I could find one in the local vicinity, but hell if I'd know they were any good. How do I convince the one thats 40 miles away to let me drive it to home and back to the dealership? To be honest with you this is really the kind of drive that would convince me to buy it.

Man you had to have seen those people's faces when I told them there was something wrong with that SE van in MS. I even showed the woman the oil on my finger and she just didn't react at all..... which is what leads me to believe they knew and were lying.... trying to cover it up with a tranny fluid change.... unless that was the previous owner that did that.

2001+ switched from the AX4S to the AX4N transaxle. Supposedly the AX4N is a stronger, more reliable trans. Is it really? That's debatable. (Knock on wood) I've had no issues with my 2001 and I'm at 84Kmi with regular maintenance. My feeling with any MV is less power options, the better off you will be for long-term reliability. I personally would not purchase a 2000 model year. Too old & that's a ton of cash for that van IMO. My 2001 has a trade-in value of like $1700.:lol:

Joel

2001+ switched from the AX4S to the AX4N transaxle. Supposedly the AX4N is a stronger, more reliable trans. Is it really? That's debatable. (Knock on wood) I've had no issues with my 2001 and I'm at 84Kmi with regular maintenance. My feeling with any MV is less power options, the better off you will be for long-term reliability. I personally would not purchase a 2000 model year. Too old & that's a ton of cash for that van IMO. My 2001 has a trade-in value of like $1700.:lol:

Joel

In the car dealer world its all about FLUFF features 1st and condition second and the reason I say this is because anytime I compared an SE or higher model to the other models in KBB the MSRP went way up which if you think about it is really screwy to me since it is like Wiswind said that CONDITION is key, first, and foremost. I was debating over this with my Dad on the way back from seeing that SE and we were talking about age vs mileage and how mileage isn't all thats important. Even though the 2000 was lower mileage it was about 4 years older on other stuff (seals/gaskets) etc.. if that means anything.

I think I would like a 2001+ year Windstar now that ya mention it. Having changed the tranny to some significantly different model # has to be a good thing.

Some would disagree with me but I would choose a newer High millage over an older low millage. Older low millage cars trucks or vans, most likely did more city short trips. That means more engine and trans wear. I would first look at opening engine oil cap and see if it is clean in the valve train area as much as you can see. My 2001 with 102,000 + miles looks new when you open the oil cap and oil looks clean. Also check trans fluid color if it looks good that a good sign as well. If you feel like there are issues with both of these vans look some more. I know you need to get one. But the wrong one will be more problems as well. If you get a Windstar or other model get the trans cooler installed before you tow your trailer again.. As for the oil cap valve train check that shows proper venting of the PCV valve and Oil did not cook on the inside. So if its black on the valve train area most likely some one did not maintain the van that well and I would run away from that one. So again if you feel that there may be issues with the engine and trans on both of those vans keep looking.. Gary

Some would disagree with me but I would choose a newer High millage over an older low millage. Older low millage cars trucks or vans, most likely did more city short trips. That means more engine and trans wear. I would first look at opening engine oil cap and see if it is clean in the valve train area as much as you can see. My 2001 with 102,000 + miles looks new when you open the oil cap and oil looks clean. Also check trans fluid color if it looks good that a good sign as well. If you feel like there are issues with both of these vans look some more. I know you need to get one. But the wrong one will be more problems as well. If you get a Windstar or other model get the trans cooler installed before you tow your trailer again.. As for the oil cap valve train check that shows proper venting of the PCV valve and Oil did not cook on the inside. So if its black on the valve train area most likely some one did not maintain the van that well and I would run away from that one. So again if you feel that there may be issues with the engine and trans on both of those vans keep looking.. Gary

I just feel like the 2003 LX is great and felt it drove as it should... well. I'm still not happy about it being 304lbs heavier though and thereby the 200hp is kinda doused by this extra weight. It would cost in the neighborhood of 8800 - 10,200 to get the 2003 LX (with either 2 yr 24k or 3 yr 36k Ford warranty wrapped in) which is in wonderful shape mechanical and aesthetic..... but I have been working all weekend to see what it would cost to get my 95 back on the road. Looks like i'd be looking at $4400 with tax for all the usual stuff you'd do when replacing the engine and that cost includes $711 worth of exhaust and intake (throttle body) power improvements + cost of engine and install labor wrapped in and I already have 55,000 miles left on my tranny warranty as well as I'd have 3 years unlimited miles on the new engine. In essence I'd have a fairly NEW vehicle for $4400 and it already has all the stuff I need on it (tranny cooler, towing package, new shocks/struts etc..). Still though I'd have to get a new tranny cooler to be good to go with the warranty on the engine, but thats ok cause I'm wanting a bigger one anyway. Gonna put in one rated for towing 20,000 lbs.... one in there now was for 14,500lbs.

I'm kinda at a crossroads.
If I got the LX this is what i'd have to do:

Remove the following from the GL and transplant it to the LX

Shocks/Struts
Trailer hitch
Tranny cooler
and then I may want to put on the $711 worth of upgrades I was going to do for the 95 for intake/exhaust

and then I'd be set for towing/moving my stuff up North again and if I did the intake/exhaust mods I'd have a lil more power too and hopefully this would help with gas mileage. It is a tough call that seems like it shouldn't be a tough call.... I have sunk 9000 into the 95 GL over the past 3.5 years.... and if I commit to the new engine path and the stuff I mentioned then I will have spent nearly 15k to basically restore an old van that I bought for $2250..... if I get the LX then I will be spending less on it in a 1 shot purchase than I would be or will have on restoring my 95 GL.

ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHh

Some would disagree with me but I would choose a newer High millage over an older low millage. Older low millage cars trucks or vans, most likely did more city short trips. That means more engine and trans wear.

Absolutely. A shorter time in service is a great thing. Lots of miles, but not a lot of wear and tear typically indicates hywy miles. The vehicle is not getting beat up on the highway, that's for sure.

Joel

It just seems like if I go with a new engine in my 95 and since I've already had so much done to it and I have its service record down to a tee that I will know COMPLETELY where this vehicle stands..... whereas with the 2003 LX I will be starting all over again fresh. I'll want to have all the fluids done etc.. and pray that 4 years old really holds true to be better than 12 years old. LOL

Ya'll would get the LX with the warranty wouldn't ya?

Go with what you are comfortable with.. If you do go with the new engine in your van think of next PCM all electrics and wiring that are left that could go wrong. If you feel they are good to go. Then go with whats best for you. Most threads start on here with I JUST BOUGHT A WINDSTAR this is the problem Im having... LOL so yes you could get another problem. I will say my father was bad about not wanting to buy a new car he always try to get the other fixed and always had one after another problems. He bought a new Ford F150 in 1999 and them traded for a GMC BIG conversion van back in 2000 and drove all over the US before he passed away and had over 130,000 miles with no problems except for what was thought to be a fuel pump with 100,000 miles in TX. After all that it ended up not being that at all but the Anti theft system. So he spent 500.00 bucks and then another 500.00 for the anti theft system. So for 5yrs he only spent a 1,000. Before he past away. He was happy with that but not the fuel pump issue. He wanted his money back. But he was already back home so he dropped it..Did not see on going that far back to get a refund that he may never get anyway..

!-which can you afford?
2-will you expect both to last the same time?
3-what time constraints do you have? Can you really wait for the repairs on old one? Can you run new one without transfering old parts to new vehicle? can you wait for the parts transfer?
4-would you be disappointed if you left, didn't bring back to life your 95? Would you have wished to have gotten a newer model if you stick with your 95?
5-What would you do with the parted out 95? Have a plan. Swap parts from newer to 95 and sell? That can offset the cost of new model.
6- Now, if I were your father in law, and gave you my opinion so freely like my fil regarding vehicles and everything else, without hesitancy, I(he) would tell you to get the newer or preferably brand new model. But I detect you don't have that problem or at least yet.

Just curious. What the heck are you traveling, hauling so much for, with a wny and trailer? Sales, product distribution? have you considered a different vehicle for your hauling and eliminate the trailer? Maybe I want to do what you are so I can get further away from my fil!?!

LOL

!-which can you afford?
2-will you expect both to last the same time?
3-what time constraints do you have? Can you really wait for the repairs on old one? Can you run new one without transfering old parts to new vehicle? can you wait for the parts transfer?
4-would you be disappointed if you left, didn't bring back to life your 95? Would you have wished to have gotten a newer model if you stick with your 95?
5-What would you do with the parted out 95? Have a plan. Swap parts from newer to 95 and sell? That can offset the cost of new model.
6- Now, if I were your father in law, and gave you my opinion so freely like my fil regarding vehicles and everything else, without hesitancy, I(he) would tell you to get the newer or preferably brand new model. But I detect you don't have that problem or at least yet.

Just curious. What the heck are you traveling, hauling so much for, with a wny and trailer? Sales, product distribution? have you considered a different vehicle for your hauling and eliminate the trailer? Maybe I want to do what you are so I can get further away from my fil!?!

LOL

Dad is helping me out so I can afford either option, but guilt has me not wanting to take advantage of taking the higher $$$ option of the 2003 LX.

Yeah, I would expect both to last me the same amount of time actually.

I can wait for the repairs.... no problems there.

Old one still runs, but sounds aweful. Missing and they say head gasket blown so coolant mixing with oil... honestly I feel like the engine could just get its heads redone, new gaskets, and I'd be in business... but its just that it takes so much to get to do all that I might as well go to a reman engine by the time i've paid for it all.

I can transplant the parts that will go over to the 2003 myself.

I would be disappointed that I didn't revive the 95, but really only because of having put $9G's into it over the past 3.5 years thinking i'd have it for quite a while.... including a tranny rebuild with remaining warranty. Keeping the van was the idea and really the only reason the thought of a new one came into play is cause my Dad offered to help by getting me one. I have a real problem choosing... I always want BOTH. During all of this I got heavy into researching all these and you'll see in the "Fastest and Furious Windstars :)" thread that the newer ones are the heaviest and slowest... not to mention the 95 gets better gas mileage by about 30 miles to a tank. I know the speeds for the 95 show slower on the thread I did than the 2003 models, but I test drove that 2003 and the 2000 and I swear they both seemed slower. See this is why I'm all conflicted.... I've got power, mpg, features, condition, 3 doors, 4 doors... ackkk.... lol. Honestly I really just feel bad about how much I've invested in the 95 GL to just simply let it go especially with the tranny warranty like it is... though it is transferrable. Then Dad doesn't help... he's back n forth now after HE OFFERED the NEW ONE saying maybe 10k is too high to pay right now for another vehicle as opposed to a total $2500 - $4000 to have a new engine installed with a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty and other incidental things fixed along the way.... like the a/c clutch and some steering stuff.

He's my father btw - not in-law but I know the example you were making.... and he won't give his opinion.... though I know him and he would much rather have a new vehicle than go through what I do keeping things up. He is the complete opposite of me. He will not go to any trouble at all to keep something going... he'd rather trash it and buy new at the 1st signs of degradation. Despite what I have spent on maintaining my GL.... I have never spent what I would've spent for it new and its served me extremely well.

LOL - I don't travel all over and tow everywhere I go. I was only going on 1 trip to the North moving my stuff to go live with my GF and the van broke down. I'm in IT and will be starting my own company once I get up there. Aaaahhhh the struggles.