Performance upgrades

I got a 98 eclipse gs about a month ago. I want to increase the horsepower in it, but I'm not sure what the best things are. Any words of advice?

If you are ready for an investment of a lot of time and money, turbo it. Don't waste your money on any of the simple bolt-ons except an exhaust system.

If you want just a little extra pep in your car, a CAI, 2.5" exhaust, a header, and ignition upgrades will get you to around 160-165 hp and you will notice a difference but will not be able to beat any type of worthy car.

l eclipse l, is that the V2 intake? how good is it in comparison against other CAIs, and where does the intake filter end up?

I got a 98 eclipse gs about a month ago. I want to increase the horsepower in it, but I'm not sure what the best things are. Any words of advice?
a simple SEARCH would have done the trick! but obviously, if you have to ask where to start... start here (http://www.dsmtuners.com/sub.php?page=2gntupgrades)

If you are ready for an investment of a lot of time and money, turbo it. Don't waste your money on any of the simple bolt-ons except an exhaust system.

If you want just a little extra pep in your car, a CAI, 2.5" exhaust, a header, and ignition upgrades will get you to around 160-165 hp and you will notice a difference but will not be able to beat any type of worthy car.

I doubt bolt-ons will get you to 160hp on the 420a. Unless you have some dyno sheets Im calling bs.

Yea me too, But whos to say thats what he wants. Wes.b without knowing some HP goals we cant really say. | eclipse | has the right idea. I must admit I dont know too much about the 420a, so if you do decide to turbo you might want to check what the stock nt internals can handle. Or else you might be spending alot more money than you want to.

With the 420A you need new rods if you turbo it. I read somewhere that the rods were made weak, which is understandable being its n/t'd... Im also pretty sure there was another internal part that needed to be replaced, maybe someone else will be able to clear that up.

To make serious power on the 420a you need to upgrade almost everything in the motor. Rods, pistons, an aftermarket crank wouldn't be the worst idea, cams, springs, retainers..all that good shit. Just throwing on a t25 or 14b thoug, you could run it stock on 6-8 lbs of boost safely, for at least awhile, before needing an upgrade.

To make serious power on the 420a you need to upgrade almost everything in the motor. Rods, pistons, an aftermarket crank wouldn't be the worst idea, cams, springs, retainers..all that good shit. Just throwing on a t25 or 14b thoug, you could run it stock on 6-8 lbs of boost safely, for at least awhile, before needing an upgrade.

Thats the part that really sucks about owning an RS if you want to make some serious HP.

Yea sounds like a big project to turbo his car. All those peripheral mods that had just been named, not to mention the turbo, intercooler, exhaust mani, etc.

I got a 98 eclipse gs about a month ago. I want to increase the horsepower in it, but I'm not sure what the best things are. Any words of advice?

Judging by his initial statement sounds like he wants some other mods besides a turbo (turbo is pretty obvious upgrade for hp) but once again we are useless with out his input.

that be true, that be true... but hey we all get to talk about him behind his back so thats pretty cool.... j/k lol

If you dont want to spend thousands of dollars, you could look into nitrous... I am probably going to do it after i get everything else done, but then again, you will stil have to do a little engine work to run spray too... plus you wont always have the extra power so to speak, only when you wanna haul some ass... But its still a nice, cheaper option for the RS's.

WOW I was not expecting this many replies already or I would have checked it sooner lol..thanks guys. In response to how much hp I want, I'm not really sure. Something that will make a significant difference, whether it be one or multiple parts. I guess I'm basically asking what will give me the most bang for my buck.



It would be awesome if I could spend under 1000, preferrably less :)

Nothing for under $1000 will give you some serious gains except nitrous. A turbo is about the biggest "bang-for-your-buck" with the 420a though. A stock 2g gst/gsx turbo (t25) will put you right around the 210-215 hp range, compared to the stock n/t hp of 140, but then you'll have to start worrying about the longevity of your car if you don't put some built parts in. A DIY turbo kit will run you about $1000-1200, granted you get some good deals and do most of the work yourself. Either way, it's your car, your choice, but if you're looking for a quick sports car, definitely go with a stock turbo'd Eclipse/Talon, the 420a just won't cut it for the budget that you have in mind.

I understand what your saying. Although it would be nice to have a turbo, I just cant spare the money.

Whats your opinion on cold air intakes and underdrive pulleys? I've heard both good and bad things about them, and just want to clear that up.

Definitely worth the money, IMO, the UDP is going to give you more of a gain though. As for a CAI, a true CAI or a short ram will do you just fine.

Cat-back exhaust and a header should give you a little bit more. A bored out throttle body might help a little. You will end up wanting more power and will eventually put a turbo kit on it.

l eclipse l, is that the V2 intake? how good is it in comparison against other CAIs, and where does the intake filter end up?
No its not...just a regular AEM. The filter is down in the bumper. I like it and would recommend it, but don't pay more than $100 for it. I got this one on eBay for like $90 shipped.

I doubt bolt-ons will get you to 160hp on the 420a. Unless you have some dyno sheets Im calling bs.
I was referring to crank hp. Nobody else is disputing my estimate who knows anything. I myself would be lucky to be around 147-148 crank hp and do not have all the mods I mentioned, so you get no dyno sheet. Unless you have a dyno sheet to prove me wrong or experience with the 420A, call BS on someone elses time.

l eclipse l is not to far off. With a few bolt ons the 420a should be putting out around 160bhp. There are to many variables such as: air temp, wear on motor, how hot the motor is, and the dyno to determine how much power you WILL put out with the given mods, but that is the range it should be in.

i had a 98 avenger with the 420a motor, header, catback ram air, and a 50 shot of nitrous. the nitrous the engine pretty much handled well stock... with the mods, i'd say i was right around 200 hp sprayin, although i have no way of truly knowing, i kno i would run about dead even with a mid ninetys mustang GT 4.6l. and including the nitrous, i probabally had less than a thousand in mods, that's the route i'd go if you're looking for cheap power outta the 420a.

I wish I would have taken some base hp dyno pulls with my worthless RS before I started putting money into it. I'd like to know how much I'm gaining with the CAI, UDP, ported head with both manifolds matched, exhaust, and a bored TB. I bet I put down about 170 crank, if not a few ponies more. She's definitely got more pull in the higher RPMS than before, not much down low though, probably being cause it's an auto.

That would be interesting to see what you can do to a e/t/l start to finish. Get that would be pretty cool to be able to hang up some sheets in the garage to brag to everyone that you freed up that many ponies.

How much are dyno runs typically? I just started ripping my RS engine apart, and i could easily put it back together stock, if a few people wanted to pitch in a couple bucks or something, i wouldnt mind getting that info for you guys, being as its the direct route im taking with my RS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderEstimate Me
I doubt bolt-ons will get you to 160hp on the 420a. Unless you have some dyno sheets Im calling bs.


I was referring to crank hp. Nobody else is disputing my estimate who knows anything. I myself would be lucky to be around 147-148 crank hp and do not have all the mods I mentioned, so you get no dyno sheet. Unless you have a dyno sheet to prove me wrong or experience with the 420A, call BS on someone elses time.

...I usually dont take sides, but damn... you got served, lol

Ah nOObs serving nOObs...

Don't worry I'll be getting mine dynoed next year. There will be no big changes from now til then. I basically did all the bolts on you can do before block rebuild and turbo.

How much are dyno runs typically?
theres a place around here that about 100 bux a pull, and i think 250 if you get three

Holy shit! $100/pull. When I dynoed mine it was $90/3 pulls with a/f. I Think most places charge about $75 for 3 pulls.

Yeah I think the last time I was around a dyno it was like $30 a pull or $75-80 for 3.

I'm going to get mine dynoed next year, early spring. Then will hit up the track and put down some times and fine tune her up. Then we can all see with all bolt-ons, (minus turbo) exactly how much the 420a motor makes. Obviously as stated above many variables come into play, but we'll get a ball park figure.



Still taking donations for dyno day too. Paypal accepted.

theres a place around here that about 100 bux a pull, and i think 250 if you get three
My bad, maybe thats an All Wheel Dyno...

Just to give the 420A a little more pride, i took down my friends Dodge Stratus the other day which is pushing over 200 hp, plus he has a chip and a CAI, he has over 60hp on me and i took him down by almost a car length...

Just to give the 420A a little more pride, i took down my friends Dodge Stratus the other day which is pushing over 200 hp, plus he has a chip and a CAI, he has over 60hp on me and i took him down by almost a car length...

Chip? No chips. That means nothing. He has an ebay resister that does nothing.

Stratus (last I checked) has the same amount of hp that our cars do. Same motors. Unless we're talking different years here?

You can get chips for just about any car, and not just those ebay junk ones. But for the price of them, they're not worth it unless the car literally has no aftermarket mods.

Chip? No chips. That means nothing. He has an ebay resister that does nothing.

Stratus (last I checked) has the same amount of hp that our cars do. Same motors. Unless we're talking different years here?

Yea, you are right i checked on the chip, sure enough, EBAY! lol He has an 00 or 01 ill have to get back to you, but he has the v6, im pretty sure its the same V6 engine as the 3G's had... anyways, my GA GT was around 180-200hp and we stayed neck and neck untill the end, so im guessing we were somewhat close in HP, but his top end killed me everytime... but i got him finally, lol

You can get chips for just about any car, and not just those ebay junk ones. But for the price of them, they're not worth it unless the car literally has no aftermarket mods.

Dont the chips just override the air vs. fuel ratio?

Real "chips" alter air/fuel maps, ignition timing, boost pressure, and possible a few other things.

The cheap ebay resisters just trick the motor into thinking its getting colder air thus dumping more fuel into the motor. Which will make you run rich and end up loosing power.

Haha I didnt even see your sig. Classic.

^^?? Whats this about.. :dunno:

Haha I didnt even see your sig. Classic.

Speaking of his sig..i have over 160 Hp from 'bolt ons'. My RS builder is faster than quite a few cars in fact on the road and accelerates much faster than V-8 F-bodies now with the custom built transmission.

It's easy to get 20 HP out of a 4 banger with bolt ons , a good exhaust package , from head back will provide up in the 10 - 15+ range , cold air good for a few , light weight flywheel will release ate power from rotating mass , higher spark will provide a cleaner combustion allowing the motor to free use the power available , a TB spacer car offer 1 or 2 , not even to mention the ported intake , royal purple oil , aluminum pulleys , and everything else ive forgotten without getting 'inside' the motor. Don't knock the 420 A if you dont know anything about it.



As far as ebay resistor mods for the MAF , don't do it..usually lose fuel effecieny , burn o2's out faster , will cause CEL's to randomly go off and won't pass emissions not to mention there is a possibility of it backfiring in such a manner it ruins cats , permanently screws the ECU , premature failre of MAF , bad idea all around..I don't see why those are even on ebay anymore as everyone has learned by now they suck :/

^^?? Whats this about.. :dunno:

another person with a neon hatin on eclipse.

O I got you, I didn't even realize that he was the person you quoted for your sig.

another person with a neon hatin on eclipse.

Oh excuse me Mr. " I have a neon engine in my car, but in this overweight eclipse body its cool"

Ive owned three turbo dsms, and still currently have my awd laser. Dont think Im coming over here to troll on your ass.

If you can provide a dyno chart of an eclipse with 160fwhp that is powered only by bolt-ons then I will shut up. I dont want any of that ricer math, exhaust 10hp + Intake 7hp + etc kind of bullshit.

To all the people talking about crank horsepower, what kind of good does that do? Hey guys, my engine makes this much power, except when its bolted into my car :(

I can see where we were lost in translation and for that I apologize. Does anyone have a stock dyno of the 420a in terms of cwhp? If so, then I might believe claims of 160 in that respect.

Well, depending on whether you count a turbo kit as a bolt on, SilvrEclipse has made over 160whp, he posted his dyno charts a while ago in the main forum.

Why are we even argueing over something as pretty as what little power a 420a can make? Lets all just crack a beer and calm down a bit.

UnderEstimate Me, hows that Laser doin?

No, I dont really consider a turbo really a bolt-on. Like I said, I can see where there was a misunderstanding with the whole thing.

The lasers good, Ive pretty much reached the limited potential of the stock smic running with my 16g, so now Im in the market for a semi affordable fmic.

Again, sorry people. I didnt mean to step on any toes here.

I assure you people have hit over 160whp without going inside the motor, search 2gnt if you dont believe me.

I think a turbo should count as bolt on performance. :grinyes:

Why not it does "bolt on" lol...i love reading the tension :-)

I think if my friend can make 220hp in his little N/A 1.8ltr Honda, a 2.0 420A cranking out 160hp on bolt ons isn't that much of a stretch.

I assure you people have hit over 160whp without going inside the motor, search 2gnt if you dont believe me.

I think a turbo should count as bolt on performance. :grinyes:

IIRC, the 420a in stock form puts out 120cwhp. Please go and find me a dyno that shows 160cwhp for bolt-ons.

Im lazy.

IIRC, the 420a in stock form puts out 120cwhp. Please go and find me a dyno that shows 160cwhp for bolt-ons.

Im lazy.

Not trying to be an ass or anything, but you are pretty much the only person who is saying that 160hp is not possible on bolt ons.

Therefore the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

Well Im not familiar with the site. I just looked and couldnt find anything. If there are so many examples, and Im the only one who doesnt believe it, why is it that no one has taken 2 minutes to copy and paste a link?

Im no expert on the engine. Im asking everyone who is to tutor me.

I cant find any proof of one nt...although Silvr was running a 14b
Im a believer in the 420a in this case even though I couldnt find proof.

I dug and dug and couldn't find proof of a 420a that hasnt been turboed...Although Silvr was running a 420a
I am a believer in the 420a in this case.

My neighbor has a 420a with a CAI - exhaust system - header
If It meant enough id have her dyno it.

420a FTFW!!!!

haha I will see if I can find some proof tmrw. I probably wont have time tonight.

P.S. My WBO2 is here. There will be a write in the near future about how to set one up cheap.

There isn't really any clear cut "proof" out there because everyone is too afraid to do anything to the 420a, except for lately. In the past 6-months to a year, finally it seems as people have started to come around to start modding the 420a. If I can find a dyno around here before I sell the car this spring, I'm definitely going to get some numbers put down. I still wish I would have gotten a base dyno, but maybe someone else can do that, I'm pretty sure almost every 420a will put out roughly the same HP stock.

Dude people started modding the 420a heavily in about 02-03. Thats when people starting putting on turbo kits. Around late 04-05 people started building the motors and running megasquirt. The 420a has been real popular for the last several year, just not on these forums.

Dude people started modding the 420a heavily in about 02-03. Thats when people starting putting on turbo kits. Around late 04-05 people started building the motors and running megasquirt. The 420a has been real popular for the last several year, just not on these forums.

I was referring to this forum. I think you're the first to turbo the 420a since Jake was a mod on here, and that was like 2-3 years ago.

O ok. Yea I think I am.

So thats a negative on the dyno charts?

Why is this discussion still going? I posted a link for you 8 posts ago of Silvr's car with bolt ons (its turbo though) putting down 188 whp.

I dont know anyone who considers a turbocharger on an n/a car to be a "bolt-on"