Questions on applying perfect paint job!

Hi guys

Before I start ive checked the stickys and numerous other websites but haven't found a clear answer to my query.

Im aware of how to apply a good basecoat but I always get orange peel, which is no biggy cos I can always just flatten it then polish.
Anyways this time I want to apply a clear coat to my paint job. So my question is: do I apply basecoat, flatten and polish then apply clear coat. or do I apply basecoat then clear. Also if I apply clearcoat without getting rid of the orange peel will it not just come right through or can I remove the orange peel by flattening the clear coat and polishing it up?

I hope that makes sence

Any help and tips will be of great help and I thank you in advance.

Faz

It is hard to give the right solution and say do it like this and all of your problems are gone.

You should just feel when something is right and when it is not.

If you got all of the basic instructions and can not achive the resoults shown then it is just question of praxis, never do something the same way twice if it was not good.

I almost never sand before clear unless it is really rough, and even in that case I never polish before clear.

So trial and error, that is the only way, once you get it right stick to the formula.

You can get perfect result (without orange peal) even without polishing (for a long time I thought it is impossible) :D

You will get much better results if you learn to eliminate orange peel as you paint, instead of 'correcting' it afterwards with sanding. Orange peel is avoidable, and indicates a problem with your painting technique.

That having been said, before you clearcoat your base paint should be as perfect as you can get it. Sand it, polish it, whatever until it there are no flaws or texture visible, and then go on to clearcoating. Do not apply more paint or clearcoat over an already textured finish.

You will get much better results if you learn to eliminate orange peel as you paint, instead of 'correcting' it afterwards with sanding. Orange peel is avoidable, and indicates a problem with your painting technique.

That having been said, before you clearcoat your base paint should be as perfect as you can get it. Sand it, polish it, whatever until it there are no flaws or texture visible, and then go on to clearcoating. Do not apply more paint or clearcoat over an already textured finish.

I agree to a point; this works for solid colors and also for the primer coat before any color is applied. But it is not correct for metallics and pearls; you never want to sand those prior to clearcoat. You'll destroy the outer layer of translucent color over the metallic/pearl chips, the surface finish and color will suffer when the metallic/pearl pigments are exposed. The damage will be even more visible under a perfect clearcoat that has been applied and polished properly.

Modern basecoat/clearcoat paint finishes generally require more work to level the clear after it's applied over a basecoat that isn't perfectly smooth. You can spray a basecoat of pearl/metallic and wetsand it smooth and then reapply a very thin layer of it to even out the color prior to applying clear.

While I don't particularly like it, I spend more time wetsanding and polishing out the clearcoat over metallic and pearl paintjobs because they're not as slick as solid colors before being applied, partially because they're not scuffed smooth via wetsanding, and partially because I don't lay down pearl/metallic color in the same "wet coat" fashion; I spray lighter top coats to ensure that the color is perfectly uniform without any light/dark spots, stripes, or whatever, without regard to the fact that it's not a glossy coat of paint. I prefer Tamiya clear which is famous for spraying smooth and then shrinks so much when drying that there's a slight amount of texture to the paint which must be wetsanded before moving to polishing compounds.

Thks for the responces. Time to practise and improve that technique I guess.

But it is not correct for metallics and pearls; you never want to sand those prior to clearcoat. You'll destroy the outer layer of translucent color over the metallic/pearl chips, the surface finish and color will suffer when the metallic/pearl pigments are exposed. The damage will be even more visible under a perfect clearcoat that has been applied and polished properly.
Very true- metallics/micas/pearls shouldn't be sanded before clearcoating.

My technique when applying metallics is to sand any errors or debris out in between coats (same as for solid colors). But before clearcoating, one last light even coat must be applied and left unsanded. This is also the point for me that all engine lids, doors, etc are temporarily fitted to the body so the metallic elements 'agree' on adjoining surfaces. I find that it only takes a light misting or two to recover the appearence of metallics from sanding, and to match panel colors.

The final layer of a solid can of course be sanded before clearcoat (provided no visible scratches, etc are left), and solids don't need to be misted over the assembled body to get colors to agree on adjacent parts. This is a big advantage for using solid colors on bodies with many parts, such as Tamiya's Enzo.

So to add to my above statement, the base color must be as perfect as possible before clearcoating. And with metallics, this means that any errors corrected by sanding/polishing will need to be resprayed with a mist coat to restore the correct metallic appearence.

Thanks guys.

btw im using a solid color this time round so no worries on metallic 'loss'. Ive just layed down a mist coat and so far it seems ok. Am I right in using a fairly lowish pressure around 20psi, to help avoid the orange peel. It seemed ok but time will tell when I start applying wet coats.

Tks

Faz

Try skipping the wet coats. It's just not necessary to apply paint in heavy layers, and it's likely where you're orange peel trouble is coming from. Especially if mist coats are working well for you, it's much better to apply ten light or medium mist coats than two wet coats. Sure it's a bit slower, but you'll have much better control, eliminate the chance of runs, and probably solve your orange peeling.

The extra control you have by applying mistcoats can also allow you to thin the paint more- which tends to make it behave better when spraying. Too much thinner will of course lead to running (and that's definately to be avoided), but properly thinned the paint will go on much smoother. You can certainly apply two coats at once- paint the roof, the bonnet, the front, left side, boot, etc, and by the time you've been around the body the roof can take more paint and the sequence can be repeated.

Yet another advantage to not applying deep coats is that it will take less time for the individual layers to dry. If you get some dust trapped in the paint, stop painting, clean the airbrush and set the body aside for a couple of hours. When you come back to sand out the debris, you're much less likely to gouge the paint if you sprayed it on in light mists than deep wetcoats.

Wow dude ure like the most helpful guy ever and always the first to post a relply! Emm Im painting a Bike at the mo so its sort of in bits (kinda of easier in a way) Also im using Zero paints which dry matt so im guessing there is not point doing wetcoats? and just apply thin coats till I get the desired effect. I know I must sound like a newbie but im really not, Ive just struggled with good quality 'show room shine' finishes. btw a pic of my progress

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/KEFLON/DSC04221.jpg

Once again thks alot for the help and support!

Faz

Zero base paints dry matt. Just keep coating in light coats until you get the paint uniformly colored. Let it dry for 2-3 hours then you can clear coat it... One note about Zero paints: one of the colors that I've used so far, Porsche Colbat Blue, dries to be a purplish color. That is corrected once the clear coat is on.
From the pics it seems that you are letting it dry for a while between the mist coats of the base coat. At least from my experience, that is not necessary.
(Strange.. AF won't let me manually type "[QOUTE]")
Basecoat
Depending on the colour supplied, you will need to apply about 2-5 coats. (figure 6) Each coat will dry within a few minutes. DO NOT apply Wet Coats, the paint will dry MATT (this is normal), just ensure you have even colour coverage. The final coat should be applied in a criss-cross fashion to allow an even consistency of the metallic particles.
Link to the guide is here: Click me!! (http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/paint_guide.php?osCsid=765db563220146d207ea885d0f3 a86a9)

Edit: Red part was a result of too many hours without the necessary Caffeine (spelt it wrong).. Thanks to Didymus for bringing this to my attention...

Happy to help.

Zero paints are perfect for applying thin. Of course you have to clearcoat it anyway so there's no point at all in applying the paint thickly- especially if by applying it in mists you can keep it nice and smooth. Build the color up to a good even opacity and you're done- move on to the clearcoating and save the base color for the next build.

Laquers (like Zero, CobraColors and TS) generally can be sprayed highly reduced with little danger of runs if applied lightly. And sprayed on with lots of reducer and low pressure they tend to go on very smooth- smooth enough that texture doesn't build up. They also dry quickly this way, so you can sand out debris after only an hour or two.

They're really not how-to's, but in my 850 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=736716) and 993 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=741709) threads I'm trying to go into some detail in my painting process.

Thanks guys, I've just posted my first WIP thread related to this painting query. I should really go to the gym but im kind of hooked on posting now and really want to get back to painted a few more layers on the bike!

Update 2nd layer and looking quite good so thks this thin layer technique is working well

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/KEFLON/DSC04226.jpg

Thks again

What type of paint is it that your applying, acrylic or enamel?

Its a laquer which I think is similar to acrylic in terms of drying time and finish.

Zero base paints dry matt. Just keep coating in light coats until you get the paint uniformly colored.
Link to the guide is here: Click me!! (http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/paint_guide.php?osCsid=765db563220146d207ea885d0f3 a86a9)

I've just been reading thru this link and I am amused by all the fuss and bother that you have to go thru, to get a reasonable coat of paint onto a model.

Having NEVER used any acrylic paint on any model at all, I'm just wondering if ALL this fuss and bother is really worth going to.

Why is it that Enamel type paints ARE NOT used more often, brands like Testors, Humbrol or even normal enamel house paint, the type you paint a door with?

But why this fixation of just using Acrylics on models and having to spray the model ten or more times and all the rubbing down between coats?

Ok, I can understand some people's need to use metallic type paints that are commonly used in the car repair industry, so as to be able to get that certain look they require. Or to get that certain colour that is only available with these type of paints

But if people are after that super shiny look, as tho the paint is still wet, they can achieve this by only using ENAMEL PAINTS, by only having to use the spray gun three times. This way there is NO great build up of paint, to hide any detail, or to leave that dreaded orange peel look on the model.
Just need to spray the undercoat, then the top colour coat and if required to hold down decals, a clear top coat. All by using the Enamel paints that are used on your house, it's cheaper than buying model paint and it works.

If any body is interested in how this can be achieved, they can contact me thru the private messages.

Real easy when you think about it.

I've just been reading thru this link and I am amused by all the fuss and bother that you have to go thru, to get a reasonable coat of paint onto a model.

Having NEVER used any acrylic paint on any model at all, I'm just wondering if ALL this fuss and bother is really worth going to.

Why is it that Enamel type paints ARE NOT used more often, brands like Testors, Humbrol or even normal enamel house paint, the type you paint a door with?

But why this fixation of just using Acrylics on models and having to spray the model ten or more times and all the rubbing down between coats?

Ok, I can understand some people's need to use metallic type paints that are commonly used in the car repair industry, so as to be able to get that certain look they require. Or to get that certain colour that is only available with these type of paints

But if people are after that super shiny look, as tho the paint is still wet, they can achieve this by only using ENAMEL PAINTS, by only having to use the spray gun three times. This way there is NO great build up of paint, to hide any detail, or to leave that dreaded orange peel look on the model.
Just need to spray the undercoat, then the top colour coat and if required to hold down decals, a clear top coat. All by using the Enamel paints that are used on your house, it's cheaper than buying model paint and it works.

If any body is interested in how this can be achieved, they can contact me thru the private messages.

Real easy when you think about it.

While your claims intrigue me, I find them highly improbable.

Search the forum for the reason why people are using the paints they are to paint their model. Understand the different types of paints better, and also understand that different paint are more freely available in some countries.

And for your reference, my whole house is painted with Latex based paints which you can't get up to the same shine as a well sprayed polished lacquer.

Correct me if I am wrong but don't ENAMEL PAINTS dry one layer at a time. So if you put a mist coat of enamel paint down you now have to wait a few days for it to completely dry before applying the next coat. Where the Acrylic Base coats paint dry with in a few hours.
I have not used Zero paint yet I bought a bottle for my current build and an excited about not having to put down a wet coat might take me longer to do. But from what I seen so far the end result it worth it.

Trust me doing light coats with the Zero paints is the right way, I just finished my 4th light coat and I think I ready to clear coat! The colour becomes very rich very quickly with out any orange peel, very economical paint indeed I have only used about 1/5 of a 60ml bottle and have virtually finished a 1/9th scale bike.

Its Zero paints from now on!

Now to test Tamiya primer cos Im sick of Halfords primer, doesn't stick well and get very thick very quickly causing mass orange peel!

Btw on the enamal subject: Its good for matt finishes but in terms of glossy finishes I wouldn't reommend due to the cureing time - it takes v long!

Now to test Tamiya primer cos Im sick of Halfords primer, doesn't stick well and get very thick very quickly causing mass orange peel!

Btw on the enamal subject: Its good for matt finishes but in terms of glossy finishes I wouldn't reommend due to the cureing time - it takes v long!
Both Gunze's Mr Surfacer and Tamiya's primers have worked well for me under Zero paints.

I've just been reading thru this link and I am amused by all the fuss and bother that you have to go thru, to get a reasonable coat of paint onto a model.

Having NEVER used any acrylic paint on any model at all, I'm just wondering if ALL this fuss and bother is really worth going to.

Why is it that Enamel type paints ARE NOT used more often, brands like Testors, Humbrol or even normal enamel house paint, the type you paint a door with?

But why this fixation of just using Acrylics on models and having to spray the model ten or more times and all the rubbing down between coats?

Ok, I can understand some people's need to use metallic type paints that are commonly used in the car repair industry, so as to be able to get that certain look they require. Or to get that certain colour that is only available with these type of paints

But if people are after that super shiny look, as tho the paint is still wet, they can achieve this by only using ENAMEL PAINTS, by only having to use the spray gun three times. This way there is NO great build up of paint, to hide any detail, or to leave that dreaded orange peel look on the model.
Just need to spray the undercoat, then the top colour coat and if required to hold down decals, a clear top coat. All by using the Enamel paints that are used on your house, it's cheaper than buying model paint and it works.

If any body is interested in how this can be achieved, they can contact me thru the private messages.

Real easy when you think about it.
Dude, IMHO you have a "posting attitude" problem.

don't forget, to get a "perfect" paint finish, you need both a well polished surface and a perfectly flat and blemish free body.
I've got a BMW M1 kit that has the best finish of the paint on any of my built kits but because the body wasn't smoothed out properly (there are slight curves and bumps where there shouldn't be) the reflections are slightly warped.

As MPWR said, a lot of what the end result looks like depends on how much time you prepare the body. For me, I spend much more time on the primer stages than the painting stages.

Trust me doing light coats with the Zero paints is the right way, I just finished my 4th light coat and I think I ready to clear coat! The colour becomes very rich very quickly with out any orange peel, very economical paint indeed I have only used about 1/5 of a 60ml bottle and have virtually finished a 1/9th scale bike.

Its Zero paints from now on!


Cool- glad to hear it's working for you! :thumbsup: