why imports suck?

I'm not much of an expert yet, but would like to get info about why american cars are better than jap imports. generally the ricers.

Well I'm not an import hater or anything, I mean I own one on top of the camaro. But my theory is this. Say you buy a 3rd gen fbody camaro, and drop a 383 Stroker or 406 sbc, and supercharge it. You've put maybe lets say 5-6000 bucks. And u payed maybe what between 4500-8000 on the car, and now altogether you've payed tops 14000 and your running a mean car. So now lets say you buy a 95 Honda civic si or something like that, lets say you get it for between 5000-8000. Now you mod out to run as fast as the camaro, your looking at putting like 35000-50000!!!! bucks for it to run this fast. People get sick of "ricers" because muscle is cheaper and generally faster. U buy a stock camaro IROC with the 350 TPI. Your running minimum 240 HP, the civic, your running like maybe 100 HP??! It's personal choice though. Whichever you like better, go for it.

Thanks for your info.

I wish i could find an IROC around here...always wanted one of those

and V8's sound way sexier

Originally posted by dr.stinkypants
and V8's sound way sexier


Soooo much sexier. Cam-Overlap is so much nicer to hear than a swarm of wasps at a light.

The stereo always goes on mute to hear somebodies car...ahh I love it.

right on, i do agree...but y say civic? y not say 14G hmm twin turbo 300zx....rx-7...a lil more supra...plus ive seen lil hatch crx run 12's n/a with 9g into. i have a cam, but i do love all cars considering im a mechanic and a speciality in performance

I'll tell you why they suck:

1. Because 95% of them start with a car that has maybe 140 hp and they have the "I can out run you attitude" and they drive as fast as possible all the time because they feel they have to make up for their lack of power.

2. They think stickers make their little cars go faster.

3. They put HUGE wings on the cars so they think they look cool and go faster when its the exact opposite...they are very very rediculously ugly.

4. They put a huge tip on their 140 hp car and they think they have 500hp and can out run my ride.

5. They put all this plastic crap all over their cars once again to think it looks good, but its really actually ugle as hell.

6. I know there is more, but this is enough for now.

**This excludes all Supras, 300zx,350zx,Rx-7s, and any import car with good horespower to begin with, which is only about 5% of them.

all of which are not true for a lot of import drivers. I know what i can beat and what i cant..and i dont act like an ass in my car

but it sure is fun to walk a 5.0 and see the look on his face

I like walking 5.0's too...it's all a matter of preference, you'll get shit for whatever you drive.

Originally posted by BlkCamaroSS
I like walking 5.0's too...it's all a matter of preference, you'll get shit for whatever you drive.


haha you get shit from our roommate who drives a V6 stang

He can talk all the shit he wants, but he knows that I'd race him if he'd get off his Metroid-Prime playing ass, I could give two shits about putting him in his place...easy to talk big when not behind the wheel...

he knows he'll get owned. he just likes to run his mouth to compensate for his woman car

Shit please....03' Mustang Cobra 390 hp. stock

1/4 mile...12.8 sec.
0-60......4.4 sec.

Can leave SS in the dust very very quickly.:flipa: So I am sure the imports are gonna fall.;)

no offense.

Yes yes, we know, whoopdie shit. Until I race one, they don't mean crap to me, and if the driver of it is as competant as the car deserves, and beats me with it, he'll get a thumbs up from me. Best keep it out of the shop first though, a supercharger is not a license to beat the crap out of a car on a consistent basis...

Originally posted by BigNutt
Shit please....03' Mustang Cobra 390 hp. stock

1/4 mile...12.8 sec.
0-60......4.4 sec.

Can leave SS in the dust very very quickly.:flipa: So I am sure the imports are gonna fall.;)

no offense.

shit please

everyone with a V6 or a GT is so quick to bring up the 03 cobra
i think he was referring to the V6 as a woman car. dont get your panties in a bunch

Is kidrocket banned?

i believe so

Kidrocket was a bish anyway, always starting shit...lol

i thought he was an ok guy

How'd you know him, you're just a n00b...

i read old posts

timeout owns me:(

Oh god, he's back...

bish you wub me

Stop being full of yourself punk...

does any one know what exactly the timslip on a 91 z28 w/305 tpi it seems pretty quick but i know is not that quick can it take a 5.0 w/302 i think the h/p output is about the same well holla @me:bandit:

I don't really know. Most people say the 302 V8 Mustang could beat the 305 V8 Camaro in the 80's. I don't think the power was much different in both cars.

But why worry yourself over it. If you're looking at a late 80's early 90's Camaro, get the 350 V8. You'll beat the 302 Mustang and the 305 Camaro. Get the stronger running engine of the time. Unfortunately they only came in automatic though.

Originally posted by BigNutt
Shit please....03' Mustang Cobra 390 hp. stock

1/4 mile...12.8 sec.
0-60......4.4 sec.

Can leave SS in the dust very very quickly.:flipa: So I am sure the imports are gonna fall.;)

no offense.

This of course brings up a whole different point. Why can't domestics build cars that don't fuck up? They already had to recall that badass Cobra. Its amazing to me that in 1989 nissan developed a 3.0L that at 9psi made 300 hp. In 1990, Toyota made a 3.0 that made 320hp at 12psi. These cars regularly run to over 100K miles on stock turbos, and running at least 2x the boost that a new cobra runs. What about good engineering and build quality? Hard to make the imports fall when your shit has cooked pistons cause Ford engineers can't even do the math to make a S/C pulley the correct size.:finger:
Also, the n/a versions of these 3.0Ls were 220-222hp. Where is a domestic 3.0L V6 that naturally aspirated makes 222hp? Chevy's 3.8 L only makes 200, and its got nearly 25% more displacement (which there is supposed to be no replacement for, right) And these engines are 10 years old. BMW just put out a 230 hp 3.0 for the Z4, its the first engine I've heard of to produce more than the VG30DE's 222hp off 3.0L (though that doesn't mean its the only one, just the only one I know)

uh huh...

I fail to see your Point... are you saying Import Motors are better?

Some are... some aren't. Big deal get over it.

I guess America is just so behind in technology huh. :rolleyes:

Its all in personal taste. I like the Imports over the American Stuff, but the European a little more over the Jap. stuff.

Anyway you look at it, they put a big grin on your face :D

The title of this thread is "why imports suck", and when I searched for 300ZX (my car) this is one of the threads I got. I dropped my two cents on it, cause I can. Don't get your mullet in a ruffle, monster truck boy.
Besides, you hokey rednecks are doing what all the other domestic folks do when they get with hp numbers. "Oh what's your point." My point is you can't tell me a domestic V6 with the hp/Liter ratio of my ten year old Nissan V6. I hate it my n/a V6 eats up old Fbodies (not my neighbor, he has a 383).

i dont have any personal preference on which car is better than the other. If you think any other cars sucks, you are just an ass. A true automotive enthusiast (and not a biased asshole) would agree with me. Any car that can put up some good times in the 1/4 or on the track is a damn good car to me. What you think looks better is all opinionated. Dont judge a car by where it comes from, but by how it performs.

Originally posted by 91NAZ32
The title of this thread is "why imports suck", and when I searched for 300ZX (my car) this is one of the threads I got. I dropped my two cents on it, cause I can. Don't get your mullet in a ruffle, monster truck boy.
Besides, you hokey rednecks are doing what all the other domestic folks do when they get with hp numbers. "Oh what's your point." My point is you can't tell me a domestic V6 with the hp/Liter ratio of my ten year old Nissan V6. I hate it my n/a V6 eats up old Fbodies (not my neighbor, he has a 383).

You're still here? Ok, lets get one thing straight I never said Domestic V6s were the shit. I know most of them are crap. But then again any real Domestic sports car has a V8.

And I'll say this HP/Liter ratio means nothing... so what if your 3.0L makes 300hp. So what if my 6.3L motor has 67hp/per Liters... its still making more power. Do the math 67 x 6.3 = 423hp YAY. Oh yeah, My motor doesnt need a Turbo to reach 300hp either. Isn't that cute!?!

Think I'm afraid of Numbers?

OK lets talk numbers shall we? Weeee this is gonna be fun!

Lets look at your V6 for a moment.
NON-Turbo 3.0 V6
Hp: 222 @ 6400
Tq: 198 @ 4800

Turbo 3.0 V6
Hp: 300 @ 6400
Tq: 283 @ 3600

Great motor, Really it is. Never said it was bad did I?

Lets look at Domestic V6 now shall we?
N/A 3.8 V6
Hp: 205 @ 5200
Tq: 230 @ 4000

Supercharged 3.8 V6
Hp: 240 @ 5200
Tq: 280 @ 3200

Domestic V6 isn't all the great right? But it does have is Torque. Those V6's came out of a Pontiac Bonneville. Which is a Grandpa Sedan. Not a sports car.

Most Domestic Sports/Muscle cars except for a few rareties all have V8s. Which Make torque.. and could careless about the Hp per liter debate.

Also found this to be interesting a 91 300zx(auto) runs low 15s... 95 Pontiac Bonneville SE runs low 15s as well... Interesting isnt it?

Ooooooooooohhhhh!!!!!!! Moded!!!!! Oh wait.. Nevermind.


I do feel that this thread(well from the top of the second page till here because thats when I started reading) is quite stupid and full of stupid arguments. Theres always someone faster than you who did it with less green than you. And if not that, there's always someone who is faster than you.

And how does one judge which car is 'better'? Because of which carmakes more hp/liter? Or because which engine produces more torque? Or becaue one car is faster than another? Oh wait.. What do you mean by faster? Straightline? Curves? Stop faster?

OH CRAP! Isn't the term 'better' or 'worse' just purely and opinion?


Yea.. so why don't we just have a discussion over something thats more productive and interesting. Or we can all just go back to flaming everything and trying to force others to agree with your opinion which gets nothing accomplish, and can I say is quite BORING?


Thats my 50,000 cents.

Interesting that you compare a forced induction domestic V6 (with 25% more displacment) to a n/a import V6 and say "There you go, now we're even". Apples do not equal oranges. Nice try though. Your granpa drives a SSi Bonneville? Nice. Too bad its still a Pontiac. Tell him to save his Social Security to fix it. torque is the great domestic crutch. I get so tired of hearing rednecks whine "At least I got torque." At least I got a car that will last ten years. Wheres the domestic answer for that?

:mad: 91naz32 u giving us imports peeps a bad name here!
red neck is tryin hear 2 be nice but u keep egging him on!
u no this is pointless, this topic has been going on 4 many many years n will continue 2 go on foreva,
me personaly, i love my imports, like u were saying about the vg30dett making 300hp out of a 3.0l what about the the s-15 sr20det making 240hp out of a 4cyld? dats damm great, but also the new mustang dat dose 12s from da factory is pretty damm amazing 2! so what im tryin 2 say is chill alittle n give respect where respect is due!

dats all

1

Interesting that you compare a forced induction domestic V6 (with 25% more displacment) to a n/a import V6
I don't see the problem, you compare n/a american cars to turbo import cars. Whats the difference?

At least I got a car that will last ten years. Wheres the domestic answer for that?
See this image in my picture? 1988 Trans Am. You may have a car that last 10 years but mine has lasted 15 so far. Too bad its a Pontiac :rolleyes:.

I don't see the problem, you compare n/a american cars to turbo import cars. Whats the difference?


Show me where I compared those turbo cars to an n/a american car. You fucks need to learn how to read.

I guess that is the original powerplant and tranny in that 1988 Pontiac? Otherwise your point is moot. Funny, I see almost as many old F bodies as I do old Z's, but they always look beat to shit, cause the build quality on 80's-early 90's F bodies is shit. If I'm not mistaken that ugly ass firechicken was a about a 280 horse 5.7L when it was stock. You got nearly twice my displacement and SIXTY WHOLE HORSES!. Applause all around for that engineering marvel.

:rolleyes:

280 hp your giving it more credit then what its worth.

235 hp 330 lbs of torque. Sucks for a 350 V8 yes? You gotta realize in the 70's and 80's American companies were struggling through government regulations. They don't have that problem anymore and the engines run just as strong as they did in the 60's. You still see cars like this on the road, whether they are beat to shit or not, they are still on the road aren't they? Like I haven't seen foreign cars on the road looking beat to shit, beetles, civics, I've even see a couple 300ZX's looking like junk. The point is they are still around so where do you get off saying american cars don't last?

What is a Z32? Is that the twin turbocharged car?

Z32 is 90-96 300ZX, turbo or not. Z31 is the 84-89 300ZX (built on the 280ZX chasis w/different bodypanels), the SOHC 3.0 that was 165hp n/a, 205 hp turbo in its best form. I understand about the gas and emission regs, that is why they quit making TTZ's. In the last imported year (1996) TTZs went to 280 hp from 300hp cause of OBDII. TT Z32s can't pass emmissions tests in lotsa areas now. Supras have the same problem on OBDI electronics. I don't hate domestics, or even Pontiacs (my dad had a '65 GTO 389 two speed auto, my first car was an '89 GP I beat to death fixed, then beat to death again) but I do think they historically have inferior build quiality. I respect 383s and 5.0s and all the domestic muscle that you just can't fuck with. Didn't mean to come off like an asshole. I'm just tired of "imports suck"

I dont think I ever said anything like "imports suck". I like a few... just not all of them.

And I didnt just talk about a Supercharged 3.8 V6, I do believe I gave stats for both Motors. N/A and Forced Induction. And I picked a 3.8 cause thats the only decent V6 we have. Not sure what the problem is.

And no, my grandpa does not drive a Bonneville. I just said it was a grandpa car. My grandpa drives a '93 Toyota Tercel.

American cars from 73-89 I consider to be the worst era for American Cars. Because they had to basically relearn how to build an effecient yet powerful motor. You may think 16 years of development is slow... it is in away but they also had almost 63 years of manufacturing behind them when nobody cared. But I still see older cars from the 70s and 80s driving around. Some BTS some in great condition. But they're still out there. You'd think if they had poor quality they'd all be extinct by now wouldn't they?

Torque, Torque is not a Domestic Crutch. Torque is what moves a car. Torque is what makes horsepower.
(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower

We domestics just happen to make more Torque, It's why most (not always) of the time we go faster off the line than Imports.

If you want me to go more indepth on the whole Torque thing, I'd be happy to.

And calling me names like Monster Truck boy... and 'getting my mullet in a ruffle'. And lets not forget my personal favorite "Hokey Redneck". Just goes to show how mature you really are...


Happy Trails...:)

Whats OBDI?

why does this thread suck? :rolleyes:

moved to car comparisons

This thread sucks because this debate or whatever you'd like to call it is endless and the outcome can derive only from opinions. Because one car is faster than another, or makes more hp/L than another.. does the car thats slow or makes less hp/L 'suck'?

i'm amazed, b/c it's really an anti rice thread. it has nothing to do with imports.

there's domestic rice as well my friends. and some of them have v8s.

to the guy with the cobra post...

nowhere did the camaro guy say that he could beat a cobra. he said specifically.. 5.0. if you look into the cobra, you'll NOT see a 5.0.

damn.

the 300zx dude needs to calm down. redneck is one of the coolest guys here, and very import sympathetic. get over it.

this thread should more aptly be titled "why ricey cars suck"

that would put a much more defined direction on it, instead of the bs that's going on now.

"my domestic is so much better than your (whatever car)"
and vice versa.

how dumb does that sound. come on.

how dumb does that sound. come on.


exactly the message I've been trying to convey flylwsi..

Thanks Flylwsi for the kind words. :D

This discussion is very played out. I believe all I originally said I just liked the sound of a nice V8... Then I get this guy shows up randomly calling me names like Monster Truck Boy hahah which I thought was halarious. Oh well I had fun with him, our mini-debate was interesting to say the least.

No harm feelings 91NAZ32? I still think your car is cool...:sun:





so shall we change the subject?....

How 'bout that new server eh?... Very cool!

Too bad its still a Pontiac. Tell him to save his Social Security to fix it. torque is the great domestic crutch

Are you also trying to say that GMs are built poorly?Some of the most reliable cars I have ever owned.

Originally posted by 91NAZ32
I don't see the problem, you compare n/a american cars to turbo import cars. Whats the difference?


Show me where I compared those turbo cars to an n/a american car. You fucks need to learn how to read.

I guess that is the original powerplant and tranny in that 1988 Pontiac? Otherwise your point is moot. Funny, I see almost as many old F bodies as I do old Z's, but they always look beat to shit, cause the build quality on 80's-early 90's F bodies is shit. If I'm not mistaken that ugly ass firechicken was a about a 280 horse 5.7L when it was stock. You got nearly twice my displacement and SIXTY WHOLE HORSES!. Applause all around for that engineering marvel.

:rolleyes:

Let me explain something to you, from the mid 70s to the late 80s American engines had a tough time because of high gas prices, so those V8s had to tone it down A LOT. This is what killed the muscle car area.

I also must mention a few things on the HP per liter comment, simply because I hate it when people bring it up. Like RedNeck said, it is meaningless, but if you want to throw numbers around my old GTC had 205HP to the wheels out of the stock 2.2L and it was an 89. To the crank I am sure it was getting more than 100HP per liter. To put the icing on the cake, in the NHRA, top fuel drag cars use 426 Hemis board out to 500 and they put out 6,000 to 7,000HP. I think it is safe to say that, that is A HELL OF A LOT more than 100HP per liter. So whoopde doooo.

AS for the title of the thread, I think it is ignorant and I like imports and domestics, neither is better, everyone makes shitty cars.

Originally posted by Polygon


To the crank I am sure it was getting more than 100HP per liter. To put the icing on the cake, in the NHRA, top fuel drag cars use 426 Hemis board out to 500 and they put out 6,000 to 7,000HP. I think it is safe to say that, that is A HELL OF A LOT more than 100HP per liter. So whoopde doooo.

AS for the title of the thread, I think it is ignorant and I like imports and domestics, neither is better, everyone makes shitty cars.


well put

Indeed, I think it's kind of a dumb thread anyway. How do you define "imports" and "domestics" any more? Half of Nissan's and Toyota's cars are designed and manufactured in the US, and then you have issues like Ford's early-nineties Escorts being manufactured by Mazda, and the Geo Prizm being manufactured by Toyota, and Chrysler being more than half owned by Daimler (Mercedes), etc.

If you're just trying to argue that more displacement is better, (for racing, anyhow) than your problem is not with "imports" vs. "domestics". Plenty of "imports" come with nice, big, V8s, such as the Infiniti M45 and Q45, and plenty of "domestics" come with small 4-bangers (Cavalier, Focus, Neon, anyone??).

I think what you are trying to argue is that you think it's silly for someone with a small I4 to race around thinking they are tough stuff. But then, I think it's silly to judge a car based solely on 0-60 and hp/torque. Not everyone needs a race car, some of us would rather have a practical, safe, reliable, attractive (to me), comfortable, competent sedan.

I agree with Boingo about how each person has their own preference and has different priorities in mind for their cars... But, there are some potent I4's out there that are tough stuff.. haha

And more on the "how can you call things imports or domestics'' subject... As many of you know.. a lot of the imports are built in the United States, do any domestics get built out of this country?

Originally posted by fatninja19
... do any domestics get built out of this country?

The early-nineties Escort, the Ford Aspire (built entirely by Kia), and the Geo Prizm come immediately to mind. :)

hmmm i was goin to answer post up something but i just lost interest after page 3. but i decided to troll around anyways. so i'll say something useful, and i'll asnwer that guys question about OBD's. OBD stands for On Board Diagnostics. this is basically a computer that tells either any computerized scan tool what is going on in the car. and it also controls emissions regulations. from 89-95 i think is where all cars are required to have OBD !'s but in 96 to present all cars us OBD II's which are more pussy controled computers and restricts most mods and puts the engine in safty mode, plus they all have the same output port so all the manufactures make a universal plug. and anyways, we all know Domestics owns the drags strips. but sometimes i think they're goin overboard with the whole displacement thing. look at the new 03 viper's 8.3 liter v10!! 8 point fucking 3 liters!!! that thing is a fuckin monster! its freakin like, i duno, someone has mentioned this on the board already, the way americans see things is "BIGGER IS BETTER"

example:

we need more power, okay lets throw a bigger engine

we need more grip, okay lets give it bigger tires.

i've yet to see a domestic car makers to fully ulitize their big motors. if the domestics used the same technology as imports, and make as much out of every little last drop of cubic inches in a motor, then your 8.3 liters will put out almost 1000hp from the factory. thats all i'm tryin to say.

Some Domestic motors are better than some Imports, and some Import motors are better than domestics. Either way thier is no way of anyone proving that one is better than the other. As redneck has stated many times before its all preference. Whether you decide to drive an Import or a Domestic is decided by the knowedge of the car/motor at hand and the driver's preference in vehicle. This argument could go on forever and never have a winner. Imports are not better than Domestics, Domestics are not better than Imports. "why imports suck" is the title of your thread. How would you like it if someone posted "why Domestics suck"? It sound to me like you got in an argument with someone who knows their Imported vehicles, and your looking for factual information to prove him wrong. Stop looking there is none.....

hmmm...isn't this always a debate? 1st off, redneck doesn't hate on imports, he is usually one of the 1st to congradulate the imports on their wins in the street racing section. 2nd, tat, u gotta look at how the motors are set-up. i mean, domestics WANT to have torque, so they have their engines set-up to. to produce the technology that honda (only an example) has, they would have to completely re-do their thinking an have their motors rev up to 7500-8000 rpm to push out the power. but they would lose a lot of people who are loyal to the "good ol' american muscle an torque" (not being sarcastic at all) so it really wouldn' do them much good. i mean, yea its great rev'ing high, but to some people, they'd simply rather have a car that can produce gobs of power without having to wait for something like VTEC or VVTL-i to kick in. it really all does come down to personal preference, an its like another member said, any TRUE enthusiast doesn't really care what car is puttin up the numbers, u still gotta respect them for wut they do. well i jus had to get in on somethin that had a thread title "why imports suck" :D

Dont forget Americans like the extra torque their motors make for Towing crap too...

95% of the time, what do you see towing domestic vehicles such as RV trailers, Boats, Jet Ski's, Dirt Bikes, Buggies, Dragsters.... What is it you see towing them? A Fat Ass Torque Monster of a Truck. Whether its a Gas powered Big Block or a new Diesel they can pull the ass right of a cat.


Import SUV's are like 90% comfort 10% Function, they look nice and ride nice but can't exactly go pulling some 6 ton trailer around. Which is fine by me. If I need something to tow 6 tons of crap, I know where to go.

Originally posted by fatninja19
do any domestics get built out of this country?

GM assembles quite a few up in Canada.