GTR Racing Livery - Index - Car Forums and Automotive Chat

hurstg01

05-21-2007, 01:56 PM

Le Man

05-21-2007, 03:32 PM

Well done Greg, :bigthumb: Very impressive.

Only two more # to add..... 09R and 28R.

LARK60

05-21-2007, 04:48 PM

Great pics as well as chassis numbers,you guy's know some stuff.

Have never seen 21r in that livery.I went to a few British GT race's ,but never saw that one.
02r in Lanzante livery was another one i only found out about this year!

So that makes it 2 or 3 1:43 shortail's i would like built please!

02r lanzante
05r philippe charriol
11r frank muller [ black bonnet version ]

Autobarn hopefully.Can't see minichamps doing any more race GTR's

BMW.WilliamsF1Team

05-22-2007, 01:31 AM

Nice job! I love 03R in the black Davidoff livery. :)

hurstg01

05-22-2007, 01:47 AM

Well done Greg, :bigthumb: Very impressive.

Only two more # to add..... 09R and 28R.

Cheers Le Man

I was toying with the idea of adding #09R here in the list, I think I have at least 2 pictures of it but seeing as it didn't race and was made solely for the Brunei collection, I decided against it. Let me know your thoughts if you think it definitley should be added.

As for #28R, I wasnt 100% (or even 80%) certain I had any in my files, feel free to post your pics and I'll add them to the list and I'll check when I get home tonight

hurstg01

05-22-2007, 01:18 PM

#09R and #28R added :thumbsup:

hurstg01

05-22-2007, 01:20 PM

Nice job! I love 03R in the black Davidoff livery. :)

Well in that case.............................................. ........ (I love the 1st one)
http://img40.imagevenue.com/loc801/th_58012_003R_Davidoff_2_122_801lo.jpg (http://img40.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=58012_003R_Davidoff_2_122_801lo.jpg) http://img7.imagevenue.com/loc805/th_58017_003R_Davidoff_3_122_805lo.jpg (http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=58017_003R_Davidoff_3_122_805lo.jpg) http://img18.imagevenue.com/loc935/th_58022_003R_Davidoff_5_122_935lo.jpg (http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=58022_003R_Davidoff_5_122_935lo.jpg)
:)

pimp349

05-23-2007, 11:46 PM

:eek2: Thanks for the effort! Last pic of 12R and first of 13R are non-clickable! How can this be? :lol:

andybee

05-25-2007, 09:35 PM

Well in that case.............................................. ........ (I love the 1st one)
http://img40.imagevenue.com/loc801/th_58012_003R_Davidoff_2_122_801lo.jpg (http://img40.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=58012_003R_Davidoff_2_122_801lo.jpg) http://img7.imagevenue.com/loc805/th_58017_003R_Davidoff_3_122_805lo.jpg (http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=58017_003R_Davidoff_3_122_805lo.jpg) http://img18.imagevenue.com/loc935/th_58022_003R_Davidoff_5_122_935lo.jpg (http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=58022_003R_Davidoff_5_122_935lo.jpg)
:)

Did you know that car was done entirely in vinyl. The West livery was still underneath

basman007

05-28-2007, 07:23 AM

holy....... fantastic job! +1

hurstg01

05-28-2007, 08:05 AM

holy....... fantastic job! +1

Basman!! Good to see you over here, perhaps you can add your knowledge onto this forum regarding the Brunei F1's.....;)

basman007

05-28-2007, 08:16 AM

Basman!! Good to see you over here, perhaps you can add your knowledge onto this forum regarding the Brunei F1's.....;)

Me giving info to you guys? lol, I think it's going to be the other way around. You and some other members are like uberman when it comes to the F1. I've been checking this forum for about 3/4 of year now and there really is an imense treasure of info to be found here.

But whenever I get an invite of a member of the Royal Family to come and visit their beautifull sultanate I'll be sure to take lots of pics and share them with you guys :grinyes:

f1lm

01-29-2008, 09:30 PM

That's a fantastic list!
I'm wondering why the first #17r pic shows it wearing the usa stars and stripes livery which is the same as #16r. I see in other #17r pics that it wears the british flag livery. Anybody knows why?

hurstg01

02-05-2008, 06:59 AM

That's a fantastic list!
I'm wondering why the first #17r pic shows it wearing the usa stars and stripes livery which is the same as #16r. I see in other #17r pics that it wears the british flag livery. Anybody knows why?

Check out this post (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5036269&postcount=46). Basically #17R has a US Flag over the rear bodywork and a red flag on its nose, #18R has a UK flag on its rear bodywork and a blue flag on its nose. #16R, according to its owner, had British and French flags on it to link it into its drivers in Le Mans 1996.

Alex1485

04-14-2008, 11:27 PM

not that it matters, but I sat in 19R in 2003 in its Lark colors.

BRX880

07-09-2008, 05:51 AM

I found a rather small pic of 25R in "project μ" livery.
I haven't seen this livery before...

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3612/auto3vp4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:)

hurstg01

07-09-2008, 07:38 AM

^^ good find, nor me :)

Peloton25

07-09-2008, 10:32 AM

It's really the "Purpose" livery, or at least that is what I call it, but I believe that "project μ" decals were applied solely for the display booth it was in at the Tokyo Auto Salon in '99. Here's a better image of that:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20F/1171.jpg

Here's the third and final image I have from the display. This one was posted here long ago as I recall - probably as an attachment that can no longer be viewed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20B/rimg0138.jpg

>8^)
ER

BRX880

07-09-2008, 10:45 AM

I'm pretty sure that this is its racing livery from the Fuji 1000 Km race in 1999, the sole one for 25R in 1999!
You can see 3 driver names beside the door.
The only race where 3 drivers drove 25R was that particular one - M.Hitotsuyama / Y.Hitotsuyama / A.Iida
All other races of 25R were done with only two!

:)

Peloton25

07-09-2008, 11:09 AM

You are correct in that assumption. You will even find a photo of it in "Purpose" livery on the track on page one of this thread.

In case it wasn't clear, my point was that "project μ" decals aren't really a unique livery - just something that related to the booth at that car show would be my guess as I have never seen reference of the car wearing those decals anywhere else.

BTW: Here's a link to the company whose booth the car was displayed in - no pics of their display from 1999 unfortunately. :(

http://project-mu.co.jp/en/index.html

>8^)
ER

hurstg01

07-09-2008, 12:45 PM

#25R purpose / project added :thumbsup:

Peloton25

07-09-2008, 01:34 PM

Well personally I think including that one is similar in theory to adding this one. :screwy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20F/Jim_with_car_full.jpg

What does seem more appropriate to add to the thread, and up to this point has been overlooked, are examples of the FINA Presentation liveries and also the West/Adrenaline livery. At least most of those have seen some track time. :smile:

>8^)
ER

hurstg01

07-09-2008, 01:49 PM

#08R in WEST / adrenaline livery, #10R in IF livery and the as yet undefined Fina GTR's (:cheers: for pointing that out Erik :)) added.

What does everyone think? every livery, or just racing liveries? I'm easy either way, as the main aim of the thread was to let the newbies and established amongst us to have a point of reference for all GTR's

Peloton25

07-09-2008, 02:35 PM

Well it is your thread, but I would tend to lean more towards racing liveries, and I do think the Presentation Liveries should be included.

There's one other variation of the FINA short tail livery too. This one was based on a '95 GTR though instead of the '96 GTR like the other one utilized. I have this as #08R, but forget how we came to that conclusion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20D/th_finapress32qme.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20D/finapress32qme.jpg)

>8^)
ER

BRX880

07-13-2008, 03:53 AM

Well - it seems that there are more threads which were affected by yesterdays problems!

Anyway, just for completion (based on the given liveries from post #1)

15R in Zhuhai 1996
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3223/zhuhai1ou1.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zhuhai1ou1.jpg)

the Gulf+Ueno Clinic livery of 12R/15R from Suzuka 1996
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3519/gulfsuzukayq2.th.jpg (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gulfsuzukayq2.jpg)

the Gulf+Segafredo livery of 12R/15R from Nogaro 1996
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2348/unbenanntmw4.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unbenanntmw4.jpg)

Peloton25

07-13-2008, 05:11 AM

Indeed - I had forgotten this post of yours. Thanks for putting it back. If they find the original and restore it, I will delete the duplicate.

I have also just realized we lost one entire thread that I stated very early yesterday about the History Channel video of #038 at Willow Springs from 2001, along with a reply from Greg in recognition. I'll wait to see if I need to put it back up or not, but after having to wait 7 years to see the footage, that just needs to be here. :lol:

I am sure some of the other forums on the site that generally get more traffic than ours could be suffering an even greater loss. Although, we have been running pretty strong lately. :naughty:

>8^)
ER

hurstg01

07-13-2008, 07:58 AM

BRX880's #12R and #15R pics added :thumbsup:

Sami Aaltonen

03-18-2009, 02:17 AM

Chassis #03R
http://img107.imagevenue.com/loc1184/th_68095_003R_Davidoff_122_1184lo.jpg (http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=68095_003R_Davidoff_122_1184lo.jpg)
http://img145.imagevenue.com/loc787/th_68181_003R_Sal_Openheim_Jr._5_Cie__Le_Mans_96_1 22_787lo.jpg (http://img145.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=68181_003R_Sal_Openheim_Jr._5_Cie__L e_Mans_96_122_787lo.jpg) http://img173.imagevenue.com/loc364/th_68186_Le_Mans-1996-04-28-030_122_364lo.jpg (http://img173.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=68186_Le_Mans-1996-04-28-030_122_364lo.jpg)

I allready have been trying to find out but, have to ask this here, where these two images have been taken?

I have named the image "Sal_Openheim_Jr_Le Mans 1996", but there is an errors.
The Information what I have, the car was a bit different at the race.
There was exp. a ART SPORTS text on the side and an English flag also on the side. Also Tag Heuer text on the front between the lamps and UENO CLINIC text on the windscreen. Also the front lamps were different.

Are these images taken maybe pre-qualifying or qualifying session 1996 and the car was changed to the race?

-Sami-

Peloton25

11-17-2009, 08:58 PM

It's already featured here, but images of this livery are so rare I thought this one should be included. You can see the San Miguel liveried #06R is fighting for a spot on the inside corner too. :cool:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20H/zhuhai12.jpg

>8^)
ER

Sami Aaltonen

11-18-2009, 12:47 PM

Great thanks! :runaround:
One of the best livery's ever that Davidoff #03R! Fortuntalely I have that on my collection!

Zhuhai 1995.
This livery were not in use any else race than Zhuhai's 1995 race?
I have came up this conclusion by searching my images and informations on the Internet.

Peloton25

11-18-2009, 01:31 PM

It was seen at Monza as well, and may have been used twice in China. I forget the details exactly, but can look for them later and confirm.

>8^)
ER

Sami Aaltonen

11-18-2009, 01:33 PM

It was seen at Monza as well, and may have been used twice in China. I forget the details exactly, but can look for them later and confirm.

>8^)
ER

OK Monza was new case to me. This Davidoff livery was used only 1995, not 1996 anymore?
So shame the images are so rare of this livery!

Peloton25

11-18-2009, 04:26 PM

According to John Brooks comments on the recent Speedhunters blog entries, the Davidoff livery appeared on #03R at Monza '95, Suzuka '95 and Zhuhai '95. It then made an additional appearance at Suzuka in '96. There is no mention of the livery being used for the race at Zhuhai in '96 as well, but #03R did compete at that event and I believe it would have worn the Davidoff livery once again. I'll look for some additional references this evening to see if I can confirm that.

>8^)
ER

DocGTR

11-18-2009, 09:26 PM

Davidoff livery was used on the 03R only on three races during the BPR'95: Monza, Suzuka and Zhuhai. All these three versions can be seen from the book GT Endurance 1995 (Cotton/Teissedre). Also the Cotton's Canon year book F1 McLaren GTR offers few images from Monza and Zhuhai '95 races. Driving Ambition (2nd ed. page 237) has incorrectly the photo 03R Davidoff chasing the 06R Harrods from the 1995 Suzuka race even though the text is for 1996. The incorrectness can be verified by the aerodynamical elements of just the Harrods car (rear wing especially). A better and correct photo can be seen in the GT Endurance 1996 (Cotton/Teissedre) book (p. 110) which confirms the 03R raced that time in the '96 edition of the West livery, similar to Spa (p. 147) and Zhuhai (p. 179) later that year. During the early season (before Le Mans race weekend) 03R wore the "Sal Oppenheim" livery, seen also on the first page of this thread as it took part in the Le Mans pre-qualifying that year. Cheers!

hurstg01

11-19-2009, 02:05 AM

Davidoff livery was used on the 03R only on three races during the BPR'95: Monza, Suzuka and Zhuhai. All these three versions can be seen from the book GT Endurance 1995 (Cotton/Teissedre). Also the Cotton's Canon year book F1 McLaren GTR offers few images from Monza and Zhuhai '95 races. Driving Ambition (2nd ed. page 237) has incorrectly the photo 03R Davidoff chasing the 06R Harrods from the 1995 Suzuka race even though the text is for 1996. The incorrectness can be verified by the aerodynamical elements of just the Harrods car (rear wing especially). A better and correct photo can be seen in the GT Endurance 1997 (Cotton/Teissedre) book (p. 110) which confirms the 03R raced that time in the '96 edition of the West livery, similar to Spa (p. 147) and Zhuhai (p. 179) later that year. During the early season (before Le Mans race weekend) 03R wore the "Sal Oppenheim" livery, seen also on the first page of this thread as it took part in the Le Mans pre-qualifying that year. Cheers!

:wave: Nice post! I see your library is quite extensive! :)

DocGTR

11-19-2009, 06:54 AM

Thanks hurstg01 for the compliment! I have collected the literature and materials of F1's from the 1990's and also used that as a reference material for the miniatures/scale models of the GTR's. Also a large part of the digital material is thanks to this forum as I've been an "avid reader" of it throughout the years. So maybe I can pop in and give a comment if it helps the case to be solved or corrected.

BTW I really can recommend those Cotton's books even though pricey but for anyone that are interested in those GTR's as they raced to the glory they are really worth it.

hurstg01

11-19-2009, 10:56 AM

The GT Endurance books are SO hard to get hold of. My library is quite extensive (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=937063) but I have yet to obtain the ones I need, although I do remember someone offering me one last year; was it for free? ;)

Peloton25

11-19-2009, 12:40 PM

It should be by now... :uhoh:

>8^)
ER

Sami Aaltonen

11-19-2009, 01:08 PM

Davidoff livery was used on the 03R only on three races during the BPR'95: Monza, Suzuka and Zhuhai. All these three versions can be seen from the book GT Endurance 1995 (Cotton/Teissedre). Also the Cotton's Canon year book F1 McLaren GTR offers few images from Monza and Zhuhai '95 races. Driving Ambition (2nd ed. page 237) has incorrectly the photo 03R Davidoff chasing the 06R Harrods from the 1995 Suzuka race even though the text is for 1996. The incorrectness can be verified by the aerodynamical elements of just the Harrods car (rear wing especially). A better and correct photo can be seen in the GT Endurance 1996 (Cotton/Teissedre) book (p. 110) which confirms the 03R raced that time in the '96 edition of the West livery, similar to Spa (p. 147) and Zhuhai (p. 179) later that year. During the early season (before Le Mans race weekend) 03R wore the "Sal Oppenheim" livery, seen also on the first page of this thread as it took part in the Le Mans pre-qualifying that year. Cheers!

THIS.WAS.BRILLIANT.POST! :runaround: :thumbsup:
Thanks for these I think today rare details! Absolutely fantastic! Please continue to post these details, if you just know something, which we all GTR's fans can enjoy!

I have done to my self a database; teams, chassis, race numbers and sort of detail informations and the chassis #03R I have managed to find these informations:

Race Number #:
#49 1995 Le Mans - Sal Openheim Jr/Cie
#30 1996 Le Mans - Art Sports (and Castrol or just Art Sports or just Castrol?)
- #1 BPR 1995 West / East - Bscher / Nielsen
- #8 BPR 1996 West / East - Bscsher / Nielsen
- #8 Davidoff

The close up:
#49 Le Mans 1995
#30 Le Mans 1996
#8 1995 BPR Paul Ricard, Jerez, Silverstone, Nurburgring,
Brands Hatch,Donington, Jarama, Jerez
#1 Monza, Nagaro, Spa
#8 Davidoff Zhuhai, Monza, Suzuka

And then some questions about #03R racing history:
1. The Davidoff livery only wore number #8, no other race number and the drivers were only Bscher / Nielsen, no others?

2. The West / East livery 1996 was the only livery that #03R wore that seasons BPR races?

3. What about that Art Sports / Castrol livery seen at Le Mans 1996?
It's very close to West livery, but obviously it was sponsored different companies? Totally different case then?
Livery only seen at Le Mans?

4. I mentioned other Thread that Incar Sports Car Experience DVD, where the comentator talks about Peter Kox and the clips shown Kox driving 95' GTR. I remember, he says there that the track is Nurburgring, atleast that kind of image you get the words of commentator. But it just can't be if those details what I have; are true.
Kox only drove at Le Mans?, but would they took Le Mans clips of that DVD? It's bit strange I think, ofcourse it's possible but.....

Did I missed something about those details, races, numbers, teams, drivers, years?
Was there anything no correct information?
I have took the informations McLaren Guide site, where is full list of results and drivers and chassis and teams. But is there still something what I don't know?

I would be very greatfull if I someone could correct the faults. :)

Le Man

11-19-2009, 02:10 PM

In 96, Kox raced 03R in the BPR series at Nurburgring and Nogaro.

This is from memory :screwy:, so I will confirm tomorrow.

DocGTR

11-19-2009, 03:10 PM

THIS.WAS.BRILLIANT.POST! :runaround: :thumbsup:
Thanks for these I think today rare details! Absolutely fantastic! Please continue to post these details, if you just know something, which we all GTR's fans can enjoy!

I have done to my self a database; teams, chassis, race numbers and sort of detail informations and the chassis #03R I have managed to find these informations:

Race Number #:
#49 1995 Le Mans - Sal Openheim Jr/Cie
#30 1996 Le Mans - Art Sports (and Castrol or just Art Sports or just Castrol?)
- #1 BPR 1995 West / East - Bscher / Nielsen
- #8 BPR 1996 West / East - Bscsher / Nielsen
- #8 Davidoff

The close up:
#49 Le Mans 1995
#30 Le Mans 1996
#8 1995 BPR Paul Ricard, Jerez, Silverstone, Nurburgring,
Brands Hatch,Donington, Jarama, Jerez
#1 Monza, Nagaro, Spa
#8 Davidoff Zhuhai, Monza, Suzuka

And then some questions about #03R racing history:
1. The Davidoff livery only wore number #8, no other race number and the drivers were only Bscher / Nielsen, no others?

2. The West / East livery 1996 was the only livery that #03R wore that seasons BPR races?

3. What about that Art Sports / Castrol livery seen at Le Mans 1996?
It's very close to West livery, but obviously it was sponsored different companies? Totally different case then?
Livery only seen at Le Mans?

4. I mentioned other Thread that Incar Sports Car Experience DVD, where the comentator talks about Peter Kox and the clips shown Kox driving 95' GTR. I remember, he says there that the track is Nurburgring, atleast that kind of image you get the words of commentator. But it just can't be if those details what I have; are true.
Kox only drove at Le Mans?, but would they took Le Mans clips of that DVD? It's bit strange I think, ofcourse it's possible but.....

Did I missed something about those details, races, numbers, teams, drivers, years?
Was there anything no correct information?
I have took the informations McLaren Guide site, where is full list of results and drivers and chassis and teams. But is there still something what I don't know?

I would be very greatfull if I someone could correct the faults. :)

Sami, 03R wore only West/East and Davidoff liveries throughout the 1995 season, BPR & LM. The so called "Sal Oppenheim" livery (red sides, white center) was used only the early part of the 1996 season in BPR and the LM'96 pre-qualifying in April '96. Last race it was used was in Silverstone before LM'96 race weekend as there it wore the West/East-based livery similar to '95, but due anti-tobacco-laws in France could not utilize the West/East logos, but instead had the UenoClinic/ArtSports/TagHeuer-logos on it, only for this race weekend in many different settings (was nice to decide which to use to make a model and collect the correct decals!).

03R wore in BPR'95 number #8 and due to won championship of BPR'95 the race number was #1 in BPR'96. Drivers were mainly Thomas Bscher (owner) and John Nielsen, but '96 on few occasions as Nielsen had the duties in JGTC, Peter Kox drove instead ('Ring & Nogaro). LM'95 Jochen Mass was the third driver as in LM'96 Kox. On the DVD you mention, the clips are from 'Ring.

so:
1. yes, considering the Davidoff-livery
2. no, Sal Oppenheim livery was also used in '96
3. yes, only in LM'96, but the livery is basically the West/East-livery
4. Nurburgring (victory in the East-livery!)

Maybe that helps something. :smile:

Sami Aaltonen

11-20-2009, 02:09 PM

In 96, Kox raced 03R in the BPR series at Nurburgring and Nogaro.

This is from memory :screwy:, so I will confirm tomorrow.

OK, I start to believe of this, the commentator did mentioned that Nurburgring on that DVD and I believe that they aren't put those DVD's any wrong things, atleast if their reputation is on the table.

Anyway; this is McLaren Guide http://www.qv500.com/mclarenf1p6.php showing the drives of 1996 BPR season:
1996 BPR GT Championship: Paul Ricard DNF (Bscher/Nielsen), Monza 1st (Bscher/Nielsen), Jarama 21st (Bscher/Nielsen), Silverstone 6th (Bscher/Nielsen), Nurburgring 1st (Bscher/Nielsen), Anderstorp 5th (Bscher/Nielsen), Suzuka 1000km 4th (Bscher/Nielsen), Brands Hatch 4th (Bscher/Nielsen), Spa 3rd (Bscher/Nielsen), Nogaro DNF (Bscher/Nielsen), Zhuhai 6th (Bscher/Nielsen).

Strange that this is totally forget this information source........

DocGTR:
Thanks for right information about this KOX thing, I have been wondered that somewhile now and finaly got facts in it. The McLaren Guide was main reason that it was quite difficult to believe, but now I know it's true, Kox drove #03R at "Ring", right that the DVD showed.
When I have better time, I'll add these on to my own database. So Thank You! :)

Sami Aaltonen

11-20-2009, 02:31 PM

Sami, 03R wore only West/East and Davidoff liveries throughout the 1995 season, BPR & LM. The so called "Sal Oppenheim" livery (red sides, white center) was used only the early part of the 1996 season in BPR and the LM'96 pre-qualifying in April '96. Last race it was used was in Silverstone before LM'96 race weekend as there it wore the West/East-based livery similar to '95, but due anti-tobacco-laws in France could not utilize the West/East logos, but instead had the UenoClinic/ArtSports/TagHeuer-logos on it, only for this race weekend in many different settings (was nice to decide which to use to make a model and collect the correct decals!).

03R wore in BPR'95 number #8 and due to won championship of BPR'95 the race number was #1 in BPR'96. Drivers were mainly Thomas Bscher (owner) and John Nielsen, but '96 on few occasions as Nielsen had the duties in JGTC, Peter Kox drove instead ('Ring & Nogaro). LM'95 Jochen Mass was the third driver as in LM'96 Kox. On the DVD you mention, the clips are from 'Ring.

so:
1. yes, considering the Davidoff-livery
2. no, Sal Oppenheim livery was also used in '96
3. yes, only in LM'96, but the livery is basically the West/East-livery
4. Nurburgring (victory in the East-livery!)

Maybe that helps something. :smile:

Yep! This helped a lot, again. :worshippy
HUH I think, I have #28 GTR's what I have to ask these same kind of things or more, to get everything right.........:uhoh: :eek7::jerking: :biggrin:

About #03R livery's no the mystery has been solved! It's so great to know the details of those livery's, where it was used and how it changed during the time.

And always I start to wonder how mystery these 95-96 Years of BPR racing have been on GTR's view. All kind of mystery livery changes and driver changes. Are these all even marked on the books that the everything is correct....HUH.
And when there is fans like me, who wants to know everything, it comes very difficult and hard work to clear all out.

Now when you told it why the number changed #8 to #1 is very logical, I just did not remembered that West team won 1995 the Championship. So much unremembered things to me. :headshake

About the livery's and the 4 questions; thank you.
I really must fix my database just when I got some time to focus on that.

The thing #03R is closed, I think, so what GTR chassis we took next.....:smile:
You can't imagine how much I have questions about these things.

Of course I would search them my self, but I have no literature's were to find. So have to invoke to this forum's specialist.

Peloton25

11-20-2009, 04:13 PM

Do #05R next. :lol2:

>8^)
ER

Sami Aaltonen

11-22-2009, 01:14 PM

Just one more thing about #03R's racing numbers.

It was West / East livery Le Mans 1995, the racing number was then #49.
I have something wrong here, look:

1995 Davidoff #8
1995 BPR West / East # 8
1996 Sal Openheim #49 Le Mans?
1996 Art Sports #30 Le Mans
1996 BPR West / East #1

:eek7:

Erik:
I think I will go trought all GTR's, atleast Short Tails and J.J's. Just hoping people here have enough patience and time and motivation write the right facts. I really hope!
Just found that error on #03R's numbers, have to clear that first.

DocGTR

11-25-2009, 06:33 AM

Just one more thing about #03R's racing numbers.

It was West / East livery Le Mans 1995, the racing number was then #49.
I have something wrong here, look:

Some corrections to your list:

1995 BPR - Davidoff #8 (Monza, Suzuka, Zhuhai)
1995 BPR - West / East # 8 (all other races)
1995 Le Mans pre-qualifying - West #49
1995 Le Mans race - West FM #49

1996 BPR - Sal Oppenheim #1 (races before Le Mans, till Silverstone)
1996 BPR - West / East #1 (races after Le Mans, from Nurburgring)
1996 Le Mans pre-qualifying - Sal Openheim #30?
1996 Le Mans race - Art Sports #30

Although mentioned as West at LM'95 PQ, the text "WEST" was "written" with special stripes to overcome the anti-tobacco-laws in France, similarly as used in Paul Ricard and Nogaro BPR-races.

DocGTR

11-25-2009, 07:15 AM

Do #05R next. :lol2:

>8^)
ER

05R is a nice but hard one. I guess it did not have such a fame among the photographers during its racing days as the books of those days focus more on the David Price Racing cars (03R, 06R) and the Gulfs and Finas, in many photos it is just one of the cars, not the prime target. Then it really is tough to find the details of the car in a particular race. The 1995-96 seasons are quite well covered in general how the 05R looked in different races it took part but 1997 and after it is even harder, until it has been converted back to the LM'95 Cesar Alien livery.

During 1995 05R had the two main liveries, the original dark blue metallic/dayglo pink "Philippe Charriol Watches" livery (before Le Mans) and then the Cesar Alien livery (from Le Mans). Liveries varied from race to race a bit.

In 1996 05R had mainly the black/metallic pink "Italjet"-livery, but little bit more variation than in 1995 liveries had.

1997 and 1998 05R has been seen racing altering versions of the "yellow bricks & blue sky" theme.

Sadly those GT Endurance books are in such format that is almost impossible to scan if the photo is divided onto two pages, even scanning one page photo needs up to four scans per page and then joining them into one. So I have only scanned some of those that I have needed for a particular needs.

I tried earlier to make an excel-file consisting all the short-tails and their liveries in particular races, but adding the photos to excel sheets to do it how I initially wanted it, did not work out so well. So I still have the excel and the photos separately.

Sami Aaltonen

11-25-2009, 09:47 AM

Some corrections to your list:

Thanks, now the case #03R starts to be satisfying chape on my database. :cool: :cheers:

Sami Aaltonen

11-25-2009, 10:11 AM

During 1995 05R had the two main liveries, the original dark blue metallic/dayglo pink "Philippe Charriol Watches" livery (before Le Mans) and then the Cesar Alien livery (from Le Mans). Liveries varied from race to race a bit.

In 1996 05R had mainly the black/metallic pink "Italjet"-livery, but little bit more variation than in 1995 liveries had.

1997 and 1998 05R has been seen racing altering versions of the "yellow bricks & blue sky" theme.

I tried earlier to make an excel-file consisting all the short-tails and their liveries in particular races, but adding the photos to excel sheets to do it how I initially wanted it, did not work out so well. So I still have the excel and the photos separately.

So the hard case ; #05R, first I have to say; I'm not the only one who wants everything to be right and sacrifices own free time to do Exel things. :grinyes: Great to know. :cool:

Hmmm the #05R racing numbers and teams and races I have collected this format, but there is many lacks....Very many!

Number #27 Dragon Print Spa, Dijon, Silverstone 1997 FIA GT
Number #42 Yacco 1995 Le Mans
Number #41 Ìtaljet 1996 Le Mans
Number #8 Italjet Monza, Silverstone 1996?
Number #25 Dragon Print Nurburgring
Number #38 Dranon Print ?
Number #5 Italjet Paris 1000km, Paul Ricard

What about Phillip Charriol Watches, what I have marked number #42 and #5 Paris 1000km race?
Number #5 is also marked on the Italjet, but I don't know the year.

I think I have more than few things wrong here.

DocGTR

11-25-2009, 01:39 PM

Sami, I guess you mean by the "dragon print" the blue/yellow livery (the first 2 photos of 05R on the first page of this thread)? Somewhere I have read that the then owner of 05R Maury-Laribiere had a tile company and therefore it was painted/decalled to have such look of tiles. Ok, at first look it appears more as a "reptile skin" than tiles. That livery or very much similar was used 1997-98 races with differing numbers.

During 1995 BPR races it used #5 and in 1996 BPR races it wore #8 (as seen on the photos 3, 4, 9, 10 on the first page). In Le Mans it wore #42 in 1995 (both race and pre-qualifying) and #41 in 1996 pre-qualifying (did not race in LM'96). Photos 5 & 6 on the first page are from LM'95 PQ with #42, and photo 8 is from the LM'95 race, as 7 is afterwards as it has been re-liveried to the LM'95 look, but with some differences to the original.

So you have correctly the PCW (Philippe Charriol Watches) livery on LM'95 PQ #42 and the BPR'95 Paris 1000km (Montlhery) #5. Also that applies to BPR'95 Paul Ricard, Monza and Jarama. Cesar Alien (LM'95 race #42, also many times referred as Yacco #42) was then used on the rest the BPR'95 season in Suzuka ("EBA Express" & "CIBIE" on front hood, white "BMW Japan" windscreen banner) and in Zhuhai ("EBA" & "Tuiles TBF" on front hood, black "McLaren GTR" banner).

The so-called "Italjet"-livery (black/pink metallic) never wore #5, only #8 as it was only used in 1996 races. 4th photo shows it racing in Monza (Italjet on the front hood) and that is similar to how it raced also in BPR'96 Paul Ricard and Jarama and also took part to LM'96 PQ. From BPR'96 Silverstone (photo 10) onwards it was using similarly "cut" front hood as the Gulfs, the black middle stripe going all the way to the nose of the car and joining the black area on the front vents. This livery version was used to the end of the season (or in 05R's case to Nogaro) with some minor differing sponsor decals.

In 1997 FIA GT 05R wore #25, at least so it is in the photos of the Endurance GT 1997 from Hockenheim and Spa. It also took part to 1997 Le Mans pre-qualifying with #38, but did not race at LM'97. In 1998 FIA GT at Dijon it wore #27, and also the blue part was now tiles, not blue sky as in 1997.

The years 1999-2004 of 05R are quite a mystery as I don't have any photos from those years of it. Anyone who has, could give us some info about those years. 2005 and after, there are lots of good hi-res photos of it around the web, and also some nice clips as it was driven at Paul Ricard few years ago.

I really like the Cesar Alien livery and would really like to have a good handbuilt model of it, but the only option would be Provence Moulage. Minichamps has it also (as all LM'95-98 Macs), but due to the age, many of them now have the decals cracking or peeling off.

Sami Aaltonen

11-25-2009, 01:57 PM

Sami, I guess you mean by the "dragon print" the blue/yellow livery (the first 2 photos of 05R on the first page of this thread)? Somewhere I have read that the then owner of 05R Maury-Laribiere had a tile company and therefore it was painted/decalled to have such look of tiles. Ok, at first look it appears more as a "reptile skin" than tiles. That livery or very much similar was used 1997-98 races with differing numbers.

During 1995 BPR races it used #5 and in 1996 BPR races it wore #8 (as seen on the photos 3, 4, 9, 10 on the first page). In Le Mans it wore #42 in 1995 (both race and pre-qualifying) and #41 in 1996 pre-qualifying (did not race in LM'96). Photos 5 & 6 on the first page are from LM'95 PQ with #42, and photo 8 is from the LM'95 race, as 7 is afterwards as it has been re-liveried to the LM'95 look, but with some differences to the original.

So you have correctly the PCW (Philippe Charriol Watches) livery on LM'95 PQ #42 and the BPR'95 Paris 1000km (Montlhery) #5. Also that applies to BPR'95 Paul Ricard, Monza and Jarama. Cesar Alien (LM'95 race #42, also many times referred as Yacco #42) was then used on the rest the BPR'95 season in Suzuka ("EBA Express" & "CIBIE" on front hood, white "BMW Japan" windscreen banner) and in Zhuhai ("EBA" & "Tuiles TBF" on front hood, black "McLaren GTR" banner).

The so-called "Italjet"-livery (black/pink metallic) never wore #5, only #8 as it was only used in 1996 races. 4th photo shows it racing in Monza (Italjet on the front hood) and that is similar to how it raced also in BPR'96 Paul Ricard and Jarama and also took part to LM'96 PQ. From BPR'96 Silverstone (photo 10) onwards it was using similarly "cut" front hood as the Gulfs, the black middle stripe going all the way to the nose of the car and joining the black area on the front vents. This livery version was used to the end of the season (or in 05R's case to Nogaro) with some minor differing sponsor decals.

In 1997 FIA GT 05R wore #25, at least so it is in the photos of the Endurance GT 1997 from Hockenheim and Spa. It also took part to 1997 Le Mans pre-qualifying with #38, but did not race at LM'97. In 1998 FIA GT at Dijon it wore #27, and also the blue part was now tiles, not blue sky as in 1997.

The years 1999-2004 of 05R are quite a mystery as I don't have any photos from those years of it. Anyone who has, could give us some info about those years. 2005 and after, there are lots of good hi-res photos of it around the web, and also some nice clips as it was driven at Paul Ricard few years ago.

I really like the Cesar Alien livery and would really like to have a good handbuilt model of it, but the only option would be Provence Moulage. Minichamps has it also (as all LM'95-98 Macs), but due to the age, many of them now have the decals cracking or peeling off.

:worshippy HOH, this was stunning again. Now, have to make it all clear and put it some format to the Exel also. Very, VERY intersting! INDEED! :cool:
Hope I'm not the only one who is greatfull these details here!

So, what I came up when trying to read closely those details, just in case, I misunderstand something.

1995 BPR GT Number #5 Phillippe Charriol Watches
1996 BPR GT Number #5 Tuiles/TFB

1995 Le Mans Number #42 Phillippe Charriol Watches
Pre-Qualifying and "Yacco" silver livery was used race

1996 Le Mans Number #41 Only Pre-Qualifying, not raced
1997 FIA GT Number #27 "Dragon Print" (yellow sides, blue roof)
1997 Le Mans Only Pre-Qualifying, not raced
1998 FIA GT Number #27 Dijon race only.

So the questions left after this:

1. 1995 BPR GT Phillippe Charriol Watches Number #5, but what were the races?

2. 1996 Le Mans Number #41 livery was Italjet / TFB?
I have one image, number #41 Italjet colors, must be from Le Mans?

3. 1997 Number #38, what was the Le Mans livery at Pre-Qualifying?

4. FIA GT 1998 Number #27 Livery at Dijon?

Sorry if I missed something your text, Finnish is my home lanquage, so English is quite OK but some things needed to be background check. :frown:

And what comes about the scale models, The Yacco livery is one of the best seen on short tails. Too bad that there is really nothing available.

I have that #03R Art Sports Le mans 1996 by UT, and there is some details cracking of. Just try to hang on with that thing.
Same thing is my first GTR model over 10 years ago what I bought Helsinki Motor Show I think 1995, 1996 or 1997; #01R by UT, some details are simply so old that they fall of. But I try to be carefull whit that model. It's very special to me. :cool:

Sami Aaltonen

11-27-2009, 01:34 PM

Even case #05R is still under work, I'd like to take up a new case on the table. This time, the only GTR which I have my own photos back in 1996,
the #16R.

Here is some images, back in 1996 Helsinki Motor Show. I know everyone here has seen these allready, but....:runaround:
Note the J.J Lehto name on the sidewindow.....
http://kuvablogi.com/nayta/prev/img1656738.jpg

http://kuvablogi.com/nayta/prev/img1656737.jpg

http://kuvablogi.com/nayta/prev/img1656719.jpg

There is me standing behind. shocked what I have seen. :lol2:
The real McLaren F1 GTR in Finland! :lol2:
http://kuvablogi.com/nayta/prev/img1712136.jpg

I have following details allready collected by source of McLaren Guide, and In Car Sports car DVD and those images.

1996 Team Bigazzi - Le Mans : 11th. (Soper / Laffite / Duez)
Race Number #38.

1996 BPR GT BMW Motorsport (Fina) :
Only one race, Silverstone 4th, (Soper / Piquet)
Race number #25

1. Really only one BPR race season 1996? Why?

2. Team Bigazzi or BMW Motorsport which were called FINA livery GTR's FIA GT Season 1997?

3. It has had only one livery on it's racing history, the FINA livery?

This is not a long thing, I hope, but I'd like to clear this out to my self. It's the only GTR which I have images of, and maybe that's why I follow it journey closely. :)

And what comes that JJ's name on the sidewindow.
I know JJ had nothing to do with this #16R. Never driven it or raced it. I remember that this thing was connected the 1995 Le Mans victory. JJ was on stage that day at that Motor Show and even sat in the car then. I haven't images of that moment, but the interview moment I have. The interview was mostly of that Le Mans victory and something about GTR McLarens. I was back then 16 years an old, so it's a long time.
And I'm 99,999% sure the year of these images is 1996.
:lol2:

DocGTR

11-27-2009, 05:19 PM

The story of 16R is very much connected to the other 2 chassis of GTR'96 that BMW Motorsport bought, 17R and 18R. BMW planned to race 2 cars at Le Mans 1996 and let them to be managed by Team Bigazzi SLR, that had raced BMW's touring cars earlier. 16R and 17R was planned to be the race cars as the 18R was left mainly a spare and marketing chassis, that only came to race in the invitational after season races at Curitiba and Brasilia. Both 16R and 17R were not originally planned to be raced in BPR series, but McLaren Cars "persuaded" (as stated on DA - so more likely required) them to take rehearsal race before the Le Mans. 16R and 17R have only raced in the usual white and blue FINA livery, but the 18R raced in the plain white BMW livery with the BMW Motorsports red and blue chequered flag stripe. Hollywood was the main sponsor of Bigazzi at those races, so no FINA decals - not FINA livery. Later that 18R has been given the FINA livery of the 16R in LM'96, but with incorrect number - #39.

1997 BMW Motorsports made it to works team on its own and bought 4 of the new GTR'97 chassis, 2 for FIA GT (21R & 23R) and 2 for Le Mans (24R & 26R), all sponsored by the FINA petroleum company. Both of the Le Mans cars were also used afterwards in the FIA GT '97 races by BMW (26R) and Gulf (24R) teams.

The additional name on a car is a quite typical marketing thing used on different shows. So I think it was also the case with JJ's name on the window. At least there's nowhere to find that he raced the 16R, but could have driven it at some point as he also tested extensively the 10R as Nick Mason has noted it in his "Into the Red" (2nd ed.) book.

Sami Aaltonen

11-28-2009, 12:04 AM

OK! Thank You again! :runaround:
Wonderfull!

I didn't took the #17R and #18R things on the table because I didn't want to mix that thing too much, but I thought there would be similarities on the history than #16R had.

So, #16R had racenumber #25, #17R had racenumber #24 at Silverstone where the Incar Sports Car DVD clips have been taken. The same clip can be found at Youtube also. #17R is braking the main straight and turning to first right hand corner. The #24 number and FINA text clearly seen on the screen.
Then it jumps onboard to Soper / Piquet car, exactly same part of the track, same moment of the track when Steve is accelerating up the gears towards second cornes. YES, they jumb #17R to #16R. I thought first in the beging that it's the same car. But it is not.:nono:
Very intersting, what others think? :lol2:

So, The #16R and #17R had only those two races on 1996, Silvestone and Le Mans? Nothing else?

And I have #18R information that Piquet / Cecotto drove at Curitiba finnished first. BUT, I have no racing number.
And the brazillian race I have not 100% sure images.
Was that race same drivers? And racing number?

And that JJ's thing, I personaly think that the JJ's name on the #16R's door back in 1996 was just a marketing thing to FInnish Peopple. JJ had won Le Mans last year, and the car was actually quite much same than he drove to victory year ago. Short tail and sort of things were same. And JJ was on stage there and talking about that Le Mans win. So I think that the reason was simply to put JJ's name on the door, that peopple would interested more.
I remember to saying my father then, that JJ's car was black, this is not it. This is not 1995 GTR. :lol2:

DocGTR

11-30-2009, 08:20 AM

And I have #18R information that Piquet / Cecotto drove at Curitiba finnished first. BUT, I have no racing number.
And the brazillian race I have not 100% sure images.
Was that race same drivers? And racing number?

As far as I have the info from various sources of 18R:
- racing number #01 for both races (03R "West" had the #1)
- same drivers (Piquet/Cecotto) in both races, winning both races

Sadly the Cotton/Teissedre book Endurance GT 1996 does not cover these two invitational races, so those photos around from those races are not just rare but many times also without clear indication in which race they are taken. Biggest difference on the livery was the size and placing of the different sponsor decals between the races, especially the Hollywood decals.

Sami Aaltonen

11-30-2009, 01:41 PM

OK Thanks! All clear #16R/17R and 18R case. :cheers:
All was quite much I expected, the rarenes of these two races is obious. Good that even some one has some information about these. :cool:

Sami Aaltonen

12-02-2009, 01:17 PM

Next up is #12R racing history! :cool:

I have these informations added my database:

BPR GT 1996:
Marlboro livery #2 :
Zhuhai 3rd. (Lehto, Bellm, Weaver)

GULF Livery : #2:
Paul Ricard 1st (Bellm/Weaver),
Monza DNF (Bellm/Weaver)
Jarama 1st (Bellm/Weaver)
Silverstone 3rd (Bellm/Weaver),
Nurburgring 2nd (Bellm/Weaver)
Anderstorp 3rd (Bellm/Weaver)
Suzuka 1000km 1st (Bellm/Lehto/Weaver),
Brands Hatch DNF (Bellm/Weaver)
Spa 2nd (Bellm/Weave)r
Nogaro 1st (Bellm/Weaver)

Le Mans 1996
GULF livery #33 9th, (Lehto, Bellm, Weaver).

I think these are correct? No faults?

Some detail questions:

1. Only raced 1996 these mentioned races?

2. What is the story about Marlboro livery? Why they changed it? GULF not sponsored Zhuhai's race so Malrboro took over that race?

3. Malrboro livery was only used one race, Zhuhai?

4. Lehto was "a special" driver, only the hard long races, Suzuka, Le Mans and Zhuhai? Clearly he showed his skills year ago at Le Mans. But, parently he was asked to the GULF team after 1995? Or what is this story, how Lehto ended up to behind GULF McLaren 1996? :smile:

5. Today #12R is located in UK, street convered and it's not sale?

:lol2:

F1GTRUeno

12-06-2009, 08:33 PM

Has anyone got more images of 19R in it's presentation livery and 27R in it's yellow Parabolica livery?

Thanks in advance.

DocGTR

12-07-2009, 10:30 AM

DocGTR

12-07-2009, 11:10 AM

Next up is #12R racing history! :cool:

I have these informations added my database:

BPR GT 1996:
Marlboro livery #2 :
Zhuhai 3rd. (Lehto, Bellm, Weaver)

GULF Livery : #2:
Paul Ricard 1st (Bellm/Weaver),
Monza DNF (Bellm/Weaver)
Jarama 1st (Bellm/Weaver)
Silverstone 3rd (Bellm/Weaver),
Nurburgring 2nd (Bellm/Weaver)
Anderstorp 3rd (Bellm/Weaver)
Suzuka 1000km 1st (Bellm/Lehto/Weaver),
Brands Hatch DNF (Bellm/Weaver)
Spa 2nd (Bellm/Weave)r
Nogaro 1st (Bellm/Weaver)

Le Mans 1996
GULF livery #33 9th, (Lehto, Bellm, Weaver).

I think these are correct? No faults?

Some detail questions:

1. Only raced 1996 these mentioned races?

2. What is the story about Marlboro livery? Why they changed it? GULF not sponsored Zhuhai's race so Malrboro took over that race?

3. Malrboro livery was only used one race, Zhuhai?

4. Lehto was "a special" driver, only the hard long races, Suzuka, Le Mans and Zhuhai? Clearly he showed his skills year ago at Le Mans. But, parently he was asked to the GULF team after 1995? Or what is this story, how Lehto ended up to behind GULF McLaren 1996? :smile:

5. Today #12R is located in UK, street convered and it's not sale?

:lol2:

Yes, right about the liveries, even though some might say in Suzuka it was Gulf/UenoClinic, in Brands Hatch Gulf/Logica and in Nogaro Gulf/Segafredo.

1. I have no info on any real races of 12R after BPR'96.
2. DA states (2nd ed. p 239): "Gulf Oil had no interests in China so the GTC McLarens appeared instead in Marlboro livery." Not sure if it had anything to do with the "expiring" sponsorship of the Philip Morris with the F1 team as a McLaren's thank you for the 22 years their F1 cars were painted in the Marlboro livery before the Reemtsma took over with their West branded liveries.
3. Only Zhuhai '96
4. GT Endurance 1997 states he was hired due to "his sheer speed" which he demonstrated also at Suzuka'96 by snatching the pole. Zhuhai race was a standard 4 hour race, not like the Suzuka 1000km (over 6 hours) but didn't JJ drove also in other series that year? DTM, ITC or something.
5. UK road registered "N753 HRV" as last seen in public.

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