GTR Racing Livery - Index

It's certainly true that #28R began life as #27R and very early on their chassis plates were swapped.

I have heard the Rofgo rumor as well, but BingoSports are very good about keeping their inventory up to date on their website and they still list #28R as being available. :dunno:

>8^)
ER

I agree, very strange again.

Don't think we have seen this particular photo before from the FIA GT shakedown in March of 1997.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20L/PM07609.jpg (http://www.coteriepress.com/site/COTE/Templates/ProductImage.aspx?pageid=8248&cc=GB)

Sorry for the watermark, but the print available for purchase without it by clicking the image. :)

>8^)
ER

Which chassis this is? :lol2:

Probably 20R but I think Le Man or DocGTR can confirm.

>8^)
ER

I think it's 22R

Yes - in fact based on the mirrors being body colored that is most likely the right answer. As can be seen from my current signature image 20R had the orange mirrors and 28R wore black ones.

>8^)
ER

Probably 20R but I think Le Man or DocGTR can confirm.

>8^)
ER


Try 25R :lol:

^^^ Or that... :lol2:

>8^)
ER

If the base to confirm are mirrors, we are wrong cause in Hockenheim fia-gt race 20R, 22R & 25R was with blue mirrors.
But another detail are the yellow patchs which was on 25R (still in Hockenheim)
So definitly 25R?

Mirrors aren't crusial to decide the chassis in this case as all the Gulf Team Davidoff longtail GTRs had the blue mirrors also in the the season opening Hockenheim 4H race. Only in Silverstone they had the usual orange/blue/black mirrors to differentiate them. In Hockenheim race they had the markings on the windscreen banner edges and behind the rear wing (#1 no markings, #2 yellow and #3 red). These markings can be seen in the GT Endurance 1997 book too. Also I found a couple of other pictures of that similar photo session (Sutton + Speedhunters) and looking closer to the area of the driver names on the side and comparing these to 22R and 25R during the '97 season I think it better matches the Bellm/Gilbert-Scott pairing (25R). Also I'm confident the session was at Paul Ricard, not at Jarama and the other photos just made it sure. But if anyone has any more and better clues, I'll gladly accept them. ;)

I have one pic from Hockenheim with the 3 Gulf cars in the garage and we see well n°1 #25R with yellow patchs

I have one pic from Hockenheim with the 3 Gulf cars in the garage and we see well n°1 #25R with yellow patchs

Ok, can you show that pic? I couldn't find any such pic quickly that would show the front of the #1 at Hockenheim to show the yellow markings, at least so that it could be identified as the #1.

What about the different air intake at the front, below Davidoff ?
I'm not sure it's 22R

I'm not sure it's 22R

Neither is anyone else... now. :lol2:

>8^)
ER

Here are the two pics I was referring in my earlier post:

http://thumbnails51.imagebam.com/16230/f061b5162293956.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/f061b5162293956) http://thumbnails67.imagebam.com/16230/3b6e38162293958.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3b6e38162293958)

The "thing" with the air intake below "Davidoff" seems to be a similar thing they tried on the 19R in the Barcelona tests, maybe to gain better aerodynamic efficiency, just a more developed version of it.

http://thumbnails67.imagebam.com/16230/d74846162293959.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d74846162293959)

I think it's actually a blocker to control the amount of airflow considering it was probably fairly cold during March testing. You don't want too much cold air cooling the car systems or it might not reach ideal operating temperatures. Some of the earlier GTRs used small panels fitted over the lower portion of the radiator openings to do the same thing.

Does that middle duct in the nose of the longtails feed air into the cockpit? Maybe they were just trying to keep the driver from freezing?

>8^)
ER

So which one it is? :D
Should we ask Mr.Ray about this? :smokin:

Hi guys, check that pic.
(also have a look at the 3 pics of 21R / Probably new for all of you)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/emka41/with/6442445667/

New for me. Thanks!:smokin:

I like that, Davidoff41 produces new shots ;)

From Peloton25
Does that middle duct in the nose of the longtails feed air into the cockpit? Maybe they were just trying to keep the driver from freezing?
***
No that air entrance is for front brakes, and 21R had also that same item in Hockenheim 1997.

So, definitly 25R?

So, definitly 25R?

Yes, putting all pieces of the puzzle together I can't see any other option than it being 25R.

Did #05R had a new engine somepoint in 1996?!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150419461732830&set=o.110535045684293&type=1&theater

And also take a look these ones!
http://fi-fi.facebook.com/pages/BPR-Global-GT-Endurance-Series-1994-1996/110535045684293

Did any of you guys see all of these pics yet?
http://www.lemans-history.com/fotos.php?ok=&ano=1998&equipa=%20%2041&equipa_seq=0&piloto=

Can Doc or anyone tell me, why David Price's #03R had that Davidoff livery in 1995 and why the #06R weared San Miguel livery?

Some evening my friend asked me that, do I know the reason why they had these liveries?
I think it must be some "usual" sponsorship-thing, nothing else I think?

did any of you guys see all of these pics yet?
http://www.lemans-history.com/fotos.php?ok=&ano=1998&equipa=%20%2041&equipa_seq=0&piloto=

no.........................!

I just can not believe how much there is images, 1997 just wieving, so much new ones and huh.
There was 95-98 plenty of new ones, atleast to me.
Thanks!

Can Doc or anyone tell me, why David Price's #03R had that Davidoff livery in 1995 and why the #06R weared San Miguel livery?

Some evening my friend asked me that, do I know the reason why they had these liveries?
I think it must be some "usual" sponsorship-thing, nothing else I think?

03R was sponsored by REEMTSMA, the parent company behind the West and Davidoff brands. West is their "regular" brand and wasn't available during those days in many of the countries/markets it's now available. Davidoff has been their premium brand that also includes other than tobacco products. Those were better available on the other markets than their West brand cigarettes and also then it was easier to advertise such products in even those countries that prohibited the direct tobacco advertising (similarities to Marlboro and Camel branded clothing!).

Also in the far east races like Suzuka and Zhuhai (or the Brazilian races in 1996) it was financially better to use other more local sponsors on the cars than in the European races and so 06R had the San Miguel livery in the 1995 Zhuhai race as Harrods didn't have their shop there in China yet and gave the "local" brewery (don't mix it with the Spanish San Miguel beer!) the opportunity to "build their brand image". Similarly in the 1996 Zhuhai race for 12R and 15R "Gulf oil had no interests in China, so the GTC McLarens appeared instead in Marlboro livery" (DA, p239).

I guess also the rules played a part as in the BPR series they were moore loose about the sponsoring/adveritising/livery changes than in the FIA regulated series. I'm not sure would it been even possible to have the cars of one team to have different liveries (such as DPR had the West/Harrods liveries 1995-96) in the FIA GT series. At least we saw quite a many livery changes during the BPR series, and sadly not so many during the FIA GT series.

It's good to know what was going behind the scenes those days. Very very interesting! Thanks Doc, again.!:smokin:
I'll linked this to my friend, hope he is happy. :cool:

03R was sponsored by REEMTSMA, the parent company behind the West and Davidoff brands. West is their "regular" brand and wasn't available during those days in many of the countries/markets it's now available. Davidoff has been their premium brand that also includes other than tobacco products. Those were better available on the other markets than their West brand cigarettes and also then it was easier to advertise such products in even those countries that prohibited the direct tobacco advertising (similarities to Marlboro and Camel branded clothing!).

Also in the far east races like Suzuka and Zhuhai (or the Brazilian races in 1996) it was financially better to use other more local sponsors on the cars than in the European races and so 06R had the San Miguel livery in the 1995 Zhuhai race as Harrods didn't have their shop there in China yet and gave the "local" brewery (don't mix it with the Spanish San Miguel beer!) the opportunity to "build their brand image". Similarly in the 1996 Zhuhai race for 12R and 15R "Gulf oil had no interests in China, so the GTC McLarens appeared instead in Marlboro livery" (DA, p239).

I guess also the rules played a part as in the BPR series they were moore loose about the sponsoring/adveritising/livery changes than in the FIA regulated series. I'm not sure would it been even possible to have the cars of one team to have different liveries (such as DPR had the West/Harrods liveries 1995-96) in the FIA GT series. At least we saw quite a many livery changes during the BPR series, and sadly not so many during the FIA GT series.

THIS ^^ is why I keep coming back for more on here :). The knowledge base we can tap in to is VAST :)

Take a look these ones, just incredible images.... oh my.:lol2:

http://www.lemans-history.com/imagens/1996/116-50.jpg

http://www.lemans-history.com/imagens/1996/116-48.jpg

:lol2:

Anyone where this image has been taken?!
Perhaps Monza, did #05R had spin on the gravel there? Or do I remember wrong?
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/381190_230108603726936_110535045684293_561673_1146 265668_n.jpg

BPR GT Group - Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=230108603726936&set=a.110556235682174.15580.110535045684293&type=1&theater)

^^^^ Yes, it's 05R @ BPR'96 Monza after loosing the left rear wheel coming into Parabolica and going into the gravel. There has been few of the photos of the incident around here too, and a really speedy one in the GT endurance book. ;)

^^^^ Yes, it's 05R @ BPR'96 Monza after loosing the left rear wheel coming into Parabolica and going into the gravel. There has been few of the photos of the incident around here too, and a really speedy one in the GT endurance book. ;)

Plus the Eurosport coverage showed 05R being unceremoniously pulled out of the gravel trap backwards by a tractor :runaround: certainly not the way to treat a GTR. 12R also met the same fate that day. James Weaver not being impressed at all :nono: by John Nielsen,s driving in 03R.

Thanks Doc and Le Man. :smokin:
I had a strong feelings that Monza thing, good to have confirm!:)

Quizz: Which (and where) McLaren F1 GTR had APPLE COMPUTER sponsorship on the rear wing?

Quizz: Which (and where) McLaren F1 GTR had APPLE COMPUTER sponsorship on the rear wing?

Hint: for the actual 4H BPR'96 race of the that weekend the rear wing was changed to a bigger one and that wing didn't have the "Apple Computer" text on it any more. ;)

Yeap. Seen 2 times on practice only, on 2 circuits.

And the particular chassis raced only on those 2 circuits. Now it should be quite easy. ;)

Your long tails are wrong
024R was Gulf car - bellm
022R was Gulf car - bscher
025R was Gulf car - Oloffson/raph
028R was gulf car - after 022R caught fire

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/384864_233301536740976_110535045684293_569490_1638 219102_n.jpg

Facebook BPR GT Group (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=233301536740976&set=a.110556235682174.15580.110535045684293&type=1&theater)

Now I have ask this one here; why #02R had this Ueno Clinic livery in Suzuka 1995?!
Was the reason to celebrate Le Mans victory? So simple of what was behind this one?

And what comes those chassis; this is very interesting!
Why all books have wrong informations? Just incredible. Like Driving Ambition and I think GT Endurance also has some foults defenitely. Those tells us completely different story.

So now I have ask; what chassis JJ Lehto had in Le Mans if it wasn't #24R?
What chassis in SPA? Or Helsinki, does the #21R and #26R match here?
Where we could have here same facts from BMW Motorsport Schnitzer Team.... That would be also quite a mazing.

Ok I have been to my records and the news is bad for me. i have obviously lost my memory as the Gulf cars were as follows
020R - Gounon/Raphanel
022R - Nielsen/Bscher til Le Mans then returned for Autumn Cup
025R - Bellm/Scott until Le Mans, then Lees/Scott after.
Which means I asked for wrong MP4 chassis as I have 24 and should have had 25. I am sorry to have confused you.
I cannot at the moment find which chassis Bscher used after Le Mans - I need to look at some more records.
In 1995 we ran the Ueno Clinic colours at Suzuka as they wanted continued coverage after Le Mans in Japan, but the whole car was fabloned in black/silver - the Gulf livery was underneath! We won - it was incredibly hot. The reason we could accept the sponsorship was because Gulf had not contracted to that race.

Mr. Bellm:

Thanks very much this one. No need to apologise anything. I think we all are very pleased to know these as a facts!

And my self; have to thank that 95 Suzuka livery thing, very very interesting. I never thought that the GULF livery was under the Ueno Clinic livery. Such as fantastic detail!
:lol2:

Incredible. At least Ray, you were really 46 years old when you ordered 046 :)

Sami > bad news about JJ Lehto condanation

I saw 046 in London this summer, I have been admiring it every day in my weekend;-)

Ok I have been to my records and the news is bad for me. i have obviously lost my memory as the Gulf cars were as follows
020R - Gounon/Raphanel
022R - Nielsen/Bscher til Le Mans then returned for Autumn Cup
025R - Bellm/Scott until Le Mans, then Lees/Scott after.
Which means I asked for wrong MP4 chassis as I have 24 and should have had 25. I am sorry to have confused you.
I cannot at the moment find which chassis Bscher used after Le Mans - I need to look at some more records.


Thanks much for this info. "Errare humanum est" like the old Romans would have said. ;)

So as now seems that 25R was the #1 (#39 Le Mans) throughout the season 1997, it would also be nice to know at which point 1997/1998 24R became a GTC Motorsport's chassis, at least I hope the records would show that. That could help a bit solving out the puzzle as well as the info on chassis Bscher/Nielsen used when 22R was in repairs.

Sami > bad news about JJ Lehto condanation

Yes. :crying:
I'm wrong person to comment anything, but very very sad.
Fortunately his racing career records are not going to washed away. Very rispecting records, 2 times Le Mans winner and so on.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/400540_240491192688677_110535045684293_589156_1950 909206_n.jpg

This one I think is from Monza 1996?!
- Kerbs are in Monza red-white
- Background's wall and grass suits Monza track those years.
- Probably taken firs shickane...?

BPR Facebook Group (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=240491192688677&set=a.110556235682174.15580.110535045684293&type=1&theater)

I confirm Monza 1996 but with this angle of view, i would say first left of the variant Ascari.

Today finally watched those Curitiba's clips from Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waWUe_OxN00&feature=related)and I was very suprised to see David Price's #03R Bscher/Nielsen there and Cecotto/Piquet another Team Bigazzi there!

I haven't seen anywhere any mentions of this. And don't remember to reading this even Driving Ambition or seen anything on the Internet, I should have seen that if it would have been.

So what is this story then? It wasn't official race BPR GT Series. That's what I know or atleast I think of.

There were seen 3 GTR's:
- David Price ; Bscher/Nielsen #03R West livery more or less standard?
- Team Bigazzi: #18R Cecotto/Piquet?
- What was the other Bigazzi? #17R I think it was or was it?!

I just can not believe there isn't any information not #03R not #17R history of this Curitiba race.
Or was it #03R....

Hopelly I'm not the only one......

At the close of the 1996 season, Bigazzi Team SRL, Giroix Racing Team, and David Price Racing took their F1 GTRs to Brazil to compete in races at Curitiba and Brasilia. Bigazzi took both victories just ahead of the other two McLarens.

Erik did a nice write up here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=425937)

At the close of the 1996 season, Bigazzi Team SRL, Giroix Racing Team, and David Price Racing took their F1 GTRs to Brazil to compete in races at Curitiba and Brasilia. Bigazzi took both victories just ahead of the other two McLarens.

So there what GTR chassis we saw there?

WHy anywhere isn't mentionded anything.
Seems that somereason this hasn't really been mentioned anywhere, or am I just missed it?

#03r ; #11r ; #18r

Two sites, plenty of pics :smokin:

Poor a nice drink:cheers:, grab some munchies. Scroll through years 95 to 98 including practice as well as race, Enjoy.......I did

http://www.passionlemans.fr/24heures1995/index.html

http://www.zoom-24.com/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=23

Some new and interesting pics on both links.

#03r ; #11r ; #18r

OK, thanks.:smokin:

Sorry to coming back this unofficial BPR GT race thing. Read Erik's superb close up of this subject.
(I think it should be added BPR GT Facebook page!!!)

Still I want to make clear these things;
I just need some informations to add my Exel table of these races; are these correct and have anyone detail information?

1. Team Bigazzi: #18R
- Drivers : Cecotto/Piquet winner these two races.

2. David Price Racing - #03R
- Drivers : Bscher/Nielsen - Positions in the finnish line Curitiba and Brazil?

3. Giroix Racing Team : #11R
- Drivers were?
- Positions in the finnish line Curitiba and Brazil races?

And what comes that FINA Presentation livery; #08R wore that and also #18R wore that. I think #08R wore it first and then it was removed to #18R? Just readed that Eriks Thread, gets me wonder even more. :smokin:

Greatfull for the answers!:cool:

CURITIBA, Brazil, December 8, 1996 - Result of today's BPR GT Two Hours sportscar race: 1. Nelson Piquet Brazil McLaren F1 GTR 88 laps Johnny Cecotto Venezuela 2. Fabien Giroix France McLaren F1 GTR + 8.826 secs Maurizio Sala Brazil 3. John Nielsen Denmark McLaren F1 GTR + 20.375 secs Thomas Bscher Germany

info...Motorsport.com

More detailed info here.

http://www.motorsport-archive.com/session/season/id/3581/parent/252

http://www.motorsport-archive.com/session/season/id/3580/parent/252

Thanks!
Today I had time to look closely Driving Ambition book and never notised; there indeed were the results of these two unofficial rounds!!!!:runaround:
Damn, I must have been more carefull!
1st. Cecotto/Piquet #18R 2nd Giroix/Sala #11R, Bscher/Nielsen 3rd #03R were the order in these two races. According to DA book.

My friend found this:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/race/Jacarepagua-1997-01-19-5439.html

Seems that 1997 also GTR were in the race action, anyone anything information of this one?!:runaround:
DA book didn't helped this....... Atleast I didn't found any.