******TERRORIST ATTACK ON THE U.S.******

kill all the rag head mutha fuckers except isareal take all there fuckin oil make gas prices like 75 cents a gallon and be done with it stop pussy footing around with these crazy ass people as long as there around this shit will contunie to happen its been happing in middle east for ever now they have just found a new play ground

I heard now that people that are trapped in the rubble are calling for help on their cell phones. That would be so hard. Knowing that there is not much that can be done. :(

"Angry Johnny" by Poe seems an appropriate song right now...just replace Johnny with Bun Laden or something

Originally posted by hermunn123


ya...what do you want him to do?? that's all that he can do. i am soo glad he's el presidente and not that idiot gore.

My words exactly!!! gore's a retard, he would have no clue what to do right now. Right now you need a Republican! a strong texan :D



btw, guys don't post too much i'm goin ta sleep and i don't feel like readin a book tomorrow :D

Me too. G'nite.

Originally posted by Heep
"Angry Johnny" by Poe seems an appropriate song right now...just replace Johnny with Bun Laden or something

I didnt think she was that popular, but your right, it would make a suitabel song.

What I said about Bush was my oppion based on what I had seen os speechs but not only Bush, but Arafat, Blair, ex primeminster of Israel, Priminster of Franch, President Putin, our own Polititions here in NZ.
But your right youd be screwed if you had Al Gore.

If you ppl in America think it was a good speech then it achieved its goal.
and im sure Bush's speach writers know the american ppl better than I do.

Sleepy: An armed response will achieve nothing now. at all.

This is insain. I know every detail so I won't post anything about that for newcomers (if you haven't heard by know...) but I just want everybody in the east coast know that I'm praying for them.

Hey, I haven't read all the above postings (it's late and that's A LOT of reading), but while I was lucky enough not to have lost any friends or family down in NYC today, I know there are lots who have lost friends and relatives. I offer my prayers and best wishes to all those individuals.

I never thought I would see the day where the twin towers would fall, least of all at the hands of a terrorist attack, and yet that day is upon us. This is truly a sad day for all Americans, and the entire free world. Let's hope things look up from here.

Right now 2 NYPD members where find alive in all that crap they are hoping there will be more people alive.

After reading ALL of the posts here, I am mostly gladdened. I am gladdened for many reasons. Still very, very upset, but this is a bright spot. Why?
1) Look how so much of the world is behind the US and how much support is being given toward US.
2) The Christians are coming out and standing up for their beliefs. Openly stating that they are praying for the dead and families of those dead. and for USA as a whole. I say Amen to that!
3) Look how everyone is uniting. In some form or fashion, America and it's true allies are helping each other and strengthinging our bonds.
4) I missed Bush's speach and am glad I voted for the right guy after listening to what you all said he said. He is doing exactly the right thing, and I applaud him for it. My prayers also go out to him as he must make some very very difficult decisions very soon.
5) I have never seen NYC with my own eyes, but even though the 2 wtc buildings are down, the statue of liberty still stands proud. America WILL weather this attack, and those responsible will be brought to a fitting end IF Bush does make the right decisions. When you pray for all the people affected by this tradgedy, say a special prayer for Bush, that he make the right choice, the best choice.

My own prayers will be for all you people out there in the whole world. No one is unaffected by this. I pray long life and peace to you all.

Darkwing out.

i havent heard much on the people on the planes. the only thing ive heard is about a couple of pilots and then on the little news briefs that run at the bottom of the screen it said that the executive producer of fraiser was killed, thats it. What about those people? those people had no clue when they boarded this morning.

The information you'll find below is extensive proof of quilt leading towards bin ladin however sometimes its simpler things that can finger someone

Boston to La
Dullas to Newark
B.La DN

Anti-U.S. Agenda
Bin Ladin advocates the destruction of the United States, which he sees as the chief obstacle to reform in Muslim societies. Since 1996, his anti-U.S. rhetoric has escalated to the point of calling for worldwide attacks on Americans and our allies, including civilians.
-- Bin Ladin publicly issued his "Declaration of War" against the United States in August 1996.
-- When anti-U.S. attacks did not materialize immediately, he explained the delay: "If we wanted to carry out small operations, it would have been easy to do so immediately after the statements. Even the nature of the battle requires good preparation."
-- In November 1996 he pronounced as "praiseworthy terrorism" the bombings in Riyadh and at Khobar in Saudi Arabia, promising that other attacks would follow. He admitted carrying out attacks on U.S. military personnel in Somalia and Yemen, declaring that "we used to hunt them down in Mogadishu."
-- He stated in an interview broadcast in February 1997 that "if someone can kill an American soldier, it is better than wasting time on other matters."
-- In February 1998, Bin Ladin announced the creation of a new alliance of terrorist organizations, the "International Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and Crusaders." The Front included the Egyptian al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the Harakat ul-Ansar, and two other groups. The Front declared its intention to attack Americans and our allies, including civilians, anywhere in the world.
-- In May 1998, he stated at a press conference in Afghanistan that we would see the results of his threats "in a few weeks."
February 12, 1989 Bush OKs Military Aid For Rebels ByAP
KENNEBUNKPORT, Maine (AP) - President Bush has approved continuing U.S. military aid to the Mujahadeen rebels resisting the Soviet-imposed government in Afghanistan, an administration spokesman said Saturday. Deputy press secretary Steve Hart confirmed that Bush had decided Friday to continue helping the rebels. "The president met with his National Security Council," Hart said, "and reaffirmed U.S. policy" of continuing the flow of money, arms and supplies to the rebels..."
March 16, 1989 Column: LEONARD LARSEN Financing Afghan guerillas may return harsh dividends ByLEONARD LARSEN
WASHINGTON - The situation in Afghanistan is fluid, as the diplomats say, but it's clear the "freedom fighters" American taxpayers financed with more than $2 billion have now become "holy warriors" with no debt of friendship to the United States.
In celebrating the rebel victory, Americans might also contemplate the possibility that other Islamic "holy warriors" may soon be perched near airports around the world, targeting civilian planes with the deadly U.S. missiles we sent to the "freedom fighters."
June 6, 1989 Pentagon Plans Sale Of Arms to Pakistan ByAP
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Pentagon notified Congress on Monday it had approved sales of torpedoes and anti-aircraft missiles valued at $68 million to Pakistan. The plans were announced the day Pakistan's Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto was scheduled to arrive in the capital for talks with President Bush, Secretary of State James A. Baker III and congressional leaders. Pakistan has supported anti-Communist fighters battling the Marxist government in neighboring Afghanistan, and it has served as a conduit for U.S. aid destined for the rebels..."
July 26, 1990 Baker denies accord in Afghan dispute ByAP
JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP)..." The Bush administration has been hoping for a breakthrough to end the war between Afghan government forces armed by the Soviet Union and a guerrilla coalition fighting with American- supplied weapons funneled through Pakistan..."
Bin Laden, US' own creation, becomes its enemy no 1 Chidanand Rajghatta -----------------------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON, AUG 21: Osama Bin Laden, the Saudi millionaire-turned-renegade charged with international terrorism, bears a striking similarity to the late Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. The resemblance is more than just facial. Like Bhindranwale, Bin Laden was created by the very forces which are now seeking to destroy him. Experts are almost unanimous in saying that bin Laden is a creature of a US foreign policy which recklessly fed and nurtured him and his Islamic warriors with million of dollars worth of money and arms to fight the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan. The money was funnelled largely through Pakistan's maverick Inter-Services Intelligence. Even at that time, Bin Laden and his holy warriors had made it clear that the US was as much anathema to them as the communists.
The CIA is now trying to destroy the same camps it helped set up, Robert Fisk, a British writer who covered the region and who met bin Laden at his camp recently said on Friday in an interview on National Public Radio. Fisk said Bin Laden did not appear to be such a fearsome international terrorist that the US was making him out to be. On the contrary, he was isolated, lonely, virtually unlistened to, and was constantly trying to know what was happening in other parts of the world.
US officials have made Bin Laden out to be a terrorist mastermind operating out of a high-tech cave filled with satellite phones and other gizmos overseeing a worldwide network of extremist organisations. Bin Laden is said to be around 43 years old. Born in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia, he is the youngest son of Mohammed bin Laden, a wealthy Saudi who founded the Bin Laden Group, a construction firm that thrived on Saudi government contracts. Osama Bin Laden is said to have inherited some $ 300 million from his father. In his mid-20s he left Saudi Arabia for Afghanistan to fight in the so-called Jihad against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Several accounts have it that he was cultivated by the CIA, which helped him set up camps in and around Khost, the same town now bombed by US forces.
After the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia to work in his father's construction business. But he soon began to oppose the Saudi royal family, especially after the Gulf War when US troops landed in Saudi Arabia and remained there. He launched a local movement to force US troops out of the country, railing against the defilement of the Muslim holy places of Mecca and Medina.
But he was thrown out of the country by the rulers and was virtually disowned by his family. He relocated to Sudan in 1991 and resumed his construction operations there. Sudanese officials said they expelled him in 1996 under US pressure after Washington suspected him to be indulging in terrorist activities.
US officials think he and his followers were involved in the bombing of US training facility in Riyadh in 1995 which killed seven people (including two Indians) and the Khobar Towers bombing in 1996 which killed 19 US servicemen.
Bin Laden relocated to Afghanistan in 1996 and has been on the US terrorism watchlist since. Earlier this year, the US ambassador to UN Bill Richardson contacted the Afghan Taliban rulers to ask for bin Laden but was reportedly turned down. In several interviews this year, bin Laden openly issued threats to the US, calling for a holy war to evict the infidels from Saudi Arabia. In February this year, he is said to have issued a fatwaurging holy Islamic warriors to kill Americans everywhere, whether military or civilian. In June this year, he is said to have presided over a conclave of extremist leaders from across the world in Peshawar under the umbrella of the Islamic Front, which endorsed the fatwaand decided upon an undisclosed course of action.
American intelligence agencies tracked all these movements closely and issued a heightened alert warning to its US personnel and establishments in South Asia and the Middle East. But bin Laden, they now say, struck in East Africa."

THE GW BUSH--OSAMA BIN LADIN CONNECTION
James R. Bath, friend and neighbor of George W. Bush, was used as a cash funnel from Osama bin Laden's rich father, Sheikh bin Laden, to set George W. Bush up in business, according to reputable sources from the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. The connection between GW Bush, the bin Laden family, and the Bank Commerce Credit International (BCCI) is well documented. The excerpts from the books and news articles are supplemented by the links at the bottom of the page to the cash flow charts of the bin Laden-backed BCCI money which was funneled into the Bush family in return for favors.
"Bath--who made his fortune by investing money for Mahfouz and another BCCI-connected Saudi, Sheikh bin-Laden--...was an original investor in George Bush Jr.'s oil exploration company..." from The Outlaw Bank, page 229.
"Bath provided financing to George W. Bush, the future president's eldest son, when he went into the oil business..." from False Profits, page 365.
"Bath told me he was in the CIA...he had been recruited by George Bush himself 1n 1976 when Bush was director of the agency...Bath and George, Jr. were pals and flew together in the same Air National Guard unit, and Bath lived down the street from the Bush family when George, Sr. was living in Houston...he became representative for Sheikh Khalid bin-Mafouz...one of the richest men in the world, and he was a controlling shareholder in...BCCI..." from The Outlaw Bank, page 228.
"During George Bush's tenure as CIA director, the agency was allegedly involved in a very curious business deal with James R. Bath, a Texas businessman who is a friend and sometime financial backer of one of Bush's sons (George Bush, Jr.). Bath was also a business associate of Khalid bin Mafouze and an important BCCI insider." from http://www.freerepublic.com/forum.a1000396.htm
"...BCCI would make payments to key officials, sometimes in suitcases filled with cash. As BCCI officer Abdur Askhia stated in interviews tithe Subcommittee staff: Abedi's philosophy was to appeal to every sector. President Carter's main thing was charity, so he gave Carter charity. Pakistani President Zia's brother in law needed a job, he got a job. Bangladeshi president Ashraf's mistress needed a job, she got a job. Admission of your son to a top college, he would arrange it somehow. There was a world wide list of people who were in the payoff of BCCI...". from United States Senate Subcommittee Report on Bank Credit Commerce International, 1992--the Kerry Committee.
Osama bin Laden, whose funds were inherited from his father, Sheikh bin Laden's BCCI investments, has been operating out of Afghanistan since he was established as a conduit for CIA funds in the 1980's. "Afghanistan was by far the biggest; it was, in fact, the biggest CIA operationof all time, both in terms of dollars spent ($5-$6 billion) and personnel involved..."from the book The CIA's Greatest Hits.
The story of the Bush involvement in the BCCI scandal involved "trails that branched, crossed one another, or came to unexpected dead ends...". It was like a "three dimensional chess game." from The Outlaw Bank, page 227.
"Brent Scowcroft, the national security advisor to President Bush, said that the younger Bush clearly lacks international credentials as reported to the Boston Globe April 5th. "Is he comfortable with foreign policy? I would say not." Scowcroft said. The governor's main experience "was being around when his father was in his many positions." from http://www.georgebush2000.com/

CASH FLOW OF GEORGE W BUCH http://www.pir.org/cgi-bin/nbonlin6.cgi?_BUSH_GEORGE_W%20JR

20 August 1998 TEXT: U.S. GOVERNMENT FACTSHEET ON USAMA BIN LADIN (Saudi advocates destruction of United States) (860) (The following U.S. government factsheet was distributed by the Defense Department August 20, 1998.) Usama Bin Ladin was born around 1955 in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. He is the youngest son of Muhammad Bin Ladin, a wealthy Saudi of Yemeni origin and founder of the Bin Ladin Group, a construction firm heavily involved with Saudi Government contracts. Usama Bin Ladin left Saudi Arabia to fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan in 1979. In the mid-1980s he co-founded the Maktab al-Khidamat (MAK) or Services Office, to help funnel fighters and money to the Afghan resistance in Peshawar with a Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood member named 'Abdallah 'Azzam. The MAK ultimately established recruitment centers around the world -- including in the U.S., Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan -- that enlisted, sheltered, and transported thousands of individuals from over 50 countries to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. It also organized and funded paramilitary training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Bin Ladin imported heavy equipment to cut roads and tunnels and to build hospitals and storage depots in Afghanistan.

Bin Ladin split from 'Azzam in the late 1980s to extend his campaign to all corners of the globe: 'Azzam remained focused only on support to Muslims waging military campaigns. Bin Ladin formed a new organization in 1988 called al-Qa'ida -- the military "base." After 'Azzam was killed by a car bomb in late 1989, the MAK split, with the extremist faction joining Bin Ladin's organization.

Bin Ladin returned to work in his family's Jeddah-based construction business after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989, but he continued his organization to support opposition movements in Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

Bin Ladin's anti-government activities prompted the Saudi government to expel him in 1991, after which he relocated to Sudan. Although the Afghan war had ended, al-Qa'ida has remained a formidable organization consisting of mujahedin of many nationalities who had previously fought with Bin Ladin. Many of these have remained loyal to and continue working with him today.

In May 1996, Sudan expelled Bin Ladin, largely in response to U.S. insistence and to the threat of UN sanctions following Sudan's alleged complicity in the attempted assassination of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in Ethiopia in 1995. Within a month, Bin Ladin took refuge in Afghanistan, where his support for and participation in Islamic extremist activities continued.

Bin Ladin's Organization

Al-Qa'ida's goal, in Bin Ladin's words, is to "unite all Muslims and to establish a government which follows the rule of the Caliphs." Bin Ladin has stated that the only way to establish the Caliphate is by force. Al-Qa'ida's goal, therefore, is to overthrow nearly all Muslim governments, which Bin Ladin views as "corrupt," to drive Western influence from those countries, and eventually to abolish state boundaries.

Al-Qa'ida is multi-national, with members from numerous countries and with a worldwide presence. Senior leaders in the organization are also senior leaders in other terrorist organizations, including those designated by the Department of State as foreign terrorist organizations, such as the Egyptian al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya and the Egyptian al-Jihad. Al-Qa'ida seeks a global radicalization of existing Islamic groups and the creation of radical Islamic groups where none exist.

Al-Qa'ida supports Muslim fighters in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen, and now Kosovo. It also trains members of terrorist organizations from such diverse countries as the Philippines, Algeria, and Eritrea.


FBI TOP TEN MOST WANTED
USAMA BIN LADIN
MURDER OF U.S. NATIONALS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES; CONSPIRACY TO MURDER U.S. NATIONALS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES; ATTACK ON A FEDERAL FACILITY RESULTING IN DEATH
Aliases: Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin, Shaykh Usama Bin Ladin, the Prince, the Emir, Abu Abdallah, Mujahid Shaykh, Hajj, the Director
DESCRIPTION
Date of Birth: 1957 Hair: Brown
Place of Birth: Saudi Arabia Eyes: Brown
Height: 6' 4" to 6' 6" Complexion: Olive
Weight: Approximately 160 pounds Sex: Male
Build: Thin Nationality: Saudi Arabian
Occupations: Unknown
Remarks: Leader of a terrorist organization known as Al-Qaeda "The Base".
He walks with a cane.
Scars and Marks: None
CAUTION
USAMA BIN LADEN IS WANTED IN CONNECTION WITH THE AUGUST 7, 1998, BOMBINGS OF THE UNITED STATES EMBASSIES IN DAR ES SALAAM, TANZANIA AND NAIROBI, KENYA. THESE ATTACKS KILLED OVER 200 PEOPLE.
CONSIDERED ARMED AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS
IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION CONCERNING THIS PERSON, PLEASE CONTACT YOUR LOCAL FBI OFFICE OR THE NEAREST U.S. EMBASSY OR CONSULATE.
REWARD
The United States Government is offering a reward of up to $5 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden.

Transcript of Osama Bin Ladin interview by Peter Arnett
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell us why? And is the jihad directed against the US government or the United States' troops in Arabia? What about US civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?
BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (in Lebanon). This US government abandoned even humanitarian feelings by these hideous crimes. It transgressed all bounds and behaved in a way not witnessed before by any power or any imperialist power in the world. They should have been considerate that the qibla (Mecca) of the Muslims upheaves the emotion of the entire Muslim World. Due to its subordination to the Jews the arrogance and haughtiness of the US regime has reached, to the extent that they occupied the qibla of the Muslims (Arabia) who are more than a billion in the world today. For this and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared jihad against the US, because in our religion it is our duty to make jihad so that God's word is the one exalted to the heights and so that we drive the Americans away from all Muslim countries. As for what you asked whether jihad is directed against US soldiers, the civilians in the land of the Two Holy Places (Saudi Arabia, Mecca and Medina) or against the civilians in America, we have focused our declaration on striking at the soldiers in the country of The Two Holy Places. The country of the Two Holy Places has in our religion a peculiarity of its own over the other Muslim countries. In our religion, it is not permissible for any non-Muslim to stay in our country. Therefore, even though American civilians are not targeted in our plan, they must leave. We do not guarantee their safety, because we are in a society of more than a billion Muslims. A reaction might take place as a result of US government's hitting Muslim civilians and executing more than 600 thousand Muslim children in Iraq by preventing food and medicine from reaching them. So, the US is responsible for any reaction, because it extended its war against troops to civilians. This is what we say. As for what you asked regarding the American people, they are not exonerated from responsibility, because they chose this government and voted for it despite their knowledge of its crimes in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq and in other places and its support of its agent regimes who filled our prisons with our best children and scholars. We ask that may God release them.
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States' presence in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end your call for jihad against the United States and against the US ?
BIN LADIN: The cause of the reaction must be sought and the act that has triggered this reaction must be eliminated. The reaction came as a result of the US aggressive policy towards the entire Muslim world and not just towards the Arabian peninsula. So if the cause that has called for this act comes to an end, this act, in turn, will come to an end. So, the driving-away jihad against the US does not stop with its withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula, but rather it must desist from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the whole world

Good morning everyone. I would like to first say that I am okay and my family is okay also. I haven't heard from them till 7pm. I would also like to express my condolensces to the families of victims of this horrific tragedy. My family was right there next to the twin towers and saw everything unfold. People were running and screaming all over the place. I still can't get over the fact that this has happened. I believe everyone is now aware that 3 buildings of the World Trade Center or no more.

I also want to thank all those that expressed concern for me and to let you know that I appreciate it.

Just some images of the horror.
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/attack/images/tower2_flames.jpg
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/attack/images/falling_man.jpg
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/attack/images/wreckage.jpg
http://www.nydailynews.com/today/-/-/front_destruction.jpg

http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/Attack/images/gallery/towers_fire.jpg
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/Attack/images/gallery/towers_fire2.jpg
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/Attack/images/gallery/tower_collapse.jpg
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/Attack/images/gallery/tower_collapses.jpg
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/Attack/images/gallery/severed_hand.jpg
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/Attack/images/gallery/flag.jpg

No More!
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/Attack/images/gallery/twin_towers.jpg

DVS good to have you back on here!!!!

I have a lot of family in NYC, thanks god they are all ok!

Originally posted by RCer
DVS good to have you back on here!!!!

I have a lot of family in NYC, thanks god they are all ok!



Thank you.

CNN has graciously provided video footage of both aircraft hitting the Twin Towers. Go to http://www.cnn.com

This morning, they said at the pentagon 800 are dead. That wing would normally have 4000 people in it, so it is 'lucky' (How can I say that:( ??)

At the WTC, lots are dead, I guess 25000 people.

Heres another rumour, I dont know if its true: Right now (12 noon), there are 3 jets off Vancouver, BC (north of Seattle) that have vered off their flight path and are not responding.
I sincerely hope this is untrue, as that would just be horrible.

I also heard this morning that they raided a house of two of the passengers on one of the planes, and he had been a pilot once and had a flight manual at his home.
Also, a man on the plane that crashed in Pensylvania called his wife, saying they were hijacked, but 3 of them were going to do something about it.


Whoever is responsible will pay, but lets not jump to conclusions until we know. Most stuff is still speculation.

Reports of three suspicious aircraft over Canada were checked out by Canadian authorities and found to be untrue, according to U.S. officials. Concern about the matter was prompted by a Canadian pilot who reported -- erroneously as it turned out -- that he was being followed by three other aircraft.

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS ASSOCIATIONS
203 N. Wabash Ave., Suite 2010, Chicago, Illinois 60601; www.ncsea.com (http://www.ncsea.com)

Structural Engineers Offer Insight On World Trade Center Collapse

September 11, 2001

According to one of the designers of the World Trade Center (WTC), the towers were originally designed to take the impact of a Boeing 707; and the impact of the aircraft this morning did not take the buildings down. In fact, WTC One stood for 1 hour and WTC Two stood for 1 3/4 hours after impact. Engineers familiar with the chain of events suspect that heat from the massive and extraordinary fires weakened the structures and initiated the progressive collapses.

John Hooper, a structural engineer from Skilling, Ward, Magnusson, Barkshire, the structural engineering firm that evolved from Skilling, Helle, Christianson, Robertson, which was the structural engineering firm of record for the WTC, provided the following facts to NCSEA: WTC One was 1368’ tall, and WTC Two was 1362’ tall. Each 110-story tower had a floor plate that was 208’ by 208’. The central core of each was 86’ square. Around the perimeter of the buildings, columns were spaced at 3’-3” on center, with 48”- deep plate girders at each floor. At the third level, the columns transitioned in an arch-like formation to a 10’-0” spacing for the lower story. Floors were supported by steel trusses spanning 60’, from the core to the perimeter wall, on each side of the building. The buildings are also thought to have been the first buildings to use non-asbestos fireproofing. The fibers of the spray-on fireproofing product were reportedly ceramic rather than asbestos.

NCSEA has contacted FEMA and will coordinate and make available structural engineers in the New York and Washington D.C. areas. NCSEA will also coordinate and provide the services of Member Structural Engineering Associations throughout the U.S., as needed.

The National Council of Structural Engineers Associations is extremely saddened with the day’s news, including the collapse of the World Trade Center in New York City. Our hearts and prayers go out to all the victims and their families.

TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the mericans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Stand proud, America!

does anybody know where i can find a big picture of new york (mainly the WTC twin towers) that i can put on my background?? i wanna remember these buildings, and i'm really depressed that i'll never see them again

I don't know about ever again.:D

Originally posted by Mrcoilover
I don't know about ever again.:D

what?!?!

Maybe he means that they will get rebuilt or something. Any word on that Death count or what Bush is Doing?

No official numbers yet. But luckily today, 3-5 more survivors were brought out of the rubble.

Originally posted by gang$tarr
does anybody know where i can find a big picture of new york (mainly the WTC twin towers) that i can put on my background?? i wanna remember these buildings, and i'm really depressed that i'll never see them again

Look at the pics above. There is a pic up there of the Towers.

What can You see from where you are DVS?

Originally posted by gang$tarr


what?!?!

yeay, the'll get rebuilt sooner or later. So I guess the exact ones you
won't be seeing again, but some new Twins will be up.:D

Originally posted by Porsche

What can You see from where you are DVS?

I'm not near there anymore. I was told to leave the area. I was there when the second building collapsed. It was not a very good sight. I'm still overwhelmed and in shock. I don't even want to talk about it. But needless to say, it was very chaotic in the area. My father is fine. My future sister-in-law and the baby are fine also. Thanks.

the sad thing is is that this might just be tha beginning of something worse. I've been hearing that things might be quiet right now but, we
are vulnerable and they might pull some more shit soon. I don't know.
Why would they do that to us and be finished.:confused:

Just in another building just fell over. From yesterday's stupid crap.

There's lots of Buildings, which one would this be?

Don't know which one but they just said it was damaged yesterday and it has fallen sometime ago.

Originally posted by DVSNCYNIKL


I'm not near there anymore. I was told to leave the area. I was there when the second building collapsed. It was not a very good sight.

Wow! I probobly saw you somewhere on the News Footage. (you were the fat oaf running naked though the street? )
I kinda want to say something comferting, but its impossible for me to have any idea of what it must have been like to even be on Manhatten island, let alone close to the towers. The best I can think of is: Go be with your family, be strong, dont ever forget, but dont ever let it haunt you.

Originally posted by DVSNCYNIKL


Look at the pics above. There is a pic up there of the Towers.

yeah i like that picture, but i want a bigger one for my background

i'd like the exact same picture just bigger... or something similar

Originally posted by Porsche
There's lots of Buildings, which one would this be?

Building 5 and 2 others
Millennium plaza is one of them i think

Originally posted by primera man


Building 5 and 2 others
Millennium plaza is one of them i think

Damn, because building 7 collapsed yesterday as well. (NZ Time)
that makes at least 5 buildings felled. But at least there saying that latest buildings to fall were expected, and had been evacuated, and the area around them cleared.

I think they are still standing but there have got everyone out as they fear it will fall.
They have reported seeing the building twist and glass breaking

nobody's in the area... today south manhattan is off limits, everywhere near.. there's pretty much nobody in manhattan right now, except rescue teams, firefighters, police, reporters, etc.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20010912/capt.1000327493attacks_space_image_wx122.jpg

Imagine seeing this from the Space Shuttle.

I don't know what name history will give Sept. 11, 2001, but in my head it will always be "What the Fuck? Day." That phrase was in my head all day yesterday. :(

the shot from the space station is incredible does anyone know of any web sites that have video of the planes

Try www.cnn.com.

is that all the smoke coming from new york?

Originally posted by gang$tarr
is that all the smoke coming from new york?

Yes

that's crazy... people in rhode island wouldn't be able to see the smoke right?

Breaking news there is a report of a bomb in the Empire state building. :(

god damn mutherfuckin terrorists... i hate them all

bomb afganhistan now bush, at this first sign of it being them!! it'll make a point, don't fuck with the U.S. of A!!!

A music group was going to put out a CD this week. In the background
on the front cover is the world trade center in flames. check it out.
www.wired.com :mad:

The album and cover was made 6 months ago.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover
A music group was going to put out a CD this week. In the background
on the front cover is the world trade center in flames. check it out.
www.wired.com :mad:

The album and cover was made 6 months ago.

even looks like the same places the airplanes hit on the building

Originally posted by gang$tarr
god damn mutherfuckin terrorists... i hate them all

bomb afganhistan now bush, at this first sign of it being them!! it'll make a point, don't fuck with the U.S. of A!!!

I dont think that would help as much as i would like to see that happen these people arent scared of dying if they kill 20 of us and will kill 50 of them they think its far the cocksuckers are crazy

pretty scary. I also heard that Nastradamas predicted this.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover
pretty scary. I also heard that Nastradamas predicted this.

I don't believe in none of this prediction crap! Secondly, no man, woman or child can predict or see their demise. Could we please stick with the subject and not stray from it. Thank you.

Originally posted by DVSNCYNIKL


I don't believe in none of this prediction crap! Secondly, no man, woman or child can predict or see their demise. Could we please stick with the subject and not stray from it. Thank you.

Well just so you know. He said like in 1650 or something that " In york, twin brothers would be torn apart by chaos. Said it would be very black
in America." Sounds pretty close to me. Just bringing info. Dont hate
on me.

Originally posted by Mrcoilover


Well just so you know. He said like in 1650 or something that " In york, twin brothers would be torn apart by chaos. Said it would be very black
in America." Sounds pretty close to me. Just bringing info. Dont hate
on me.

First off, I don't hate!!! Get that out of your mind now. I simply stated not to stray from the topic.

Second, this is the actual quatrain:


In the year 1999 and seven months
The Great King of Terror will come from the sky,
He will bring back to life the great king of the Mongols (Ghengis Khan?)
Before and after the God of war reigns happily.

The regions subjected to Muslim armies
Shall cause mountains trembling with great war
Prisoners of both sexes and throughout Turkey
One shall cry at dawn from land to land.


Now, again, I want this to stay with the topic. This is not a prediction thread, not a religious thread. Stick to the topic. If it has something to do with the disaster, post on. If not, either create a new thread or post in another one. Thank you!

Actually that wasn't the line I heard. Don't think you know everthing. I wasn't straying away from the topic. Playahater:smoka:

Talking about Nostradamus is straying from the topic. And the reason that you never heard that Quatrain is because that is the actual one. The one that is on the internet, is not accurate.

You want to go on and on about the "QUATRAIN". Are we staying on topic here. I guess I need to moderate and let you know
that we are talking about "America Under Attack". Lets stick to that please. thank you:)