'93 Lumina APV Stalling Problems
ArePee23
05-06-2007, 03:29 PM
I have a ‘93 Chevy Lumina APV with a lot of miles, automatic. I drive it for about 30 miles (till it warms up, but does not overheat) and it will then stall when I come to a stop sign. It will restart, but when I drop it into drive, it just dies. I let it sit for about 5 minutes and then I can restart and drive. However, after another 10-15 miles it dies again when I come to a stop. It restarts and dies once again when I drop it into drive. Driving on short trips in town are never a problem.
Took it to several mechanics who could find nothing wrong. Also, no error codes.
Read a few different places that it could be the torque converter clutch or the TCC solenoid.
Do these two options sound about right? Anything else anyone can think of?
Took it to several mechanics who could find nothing wrong. Also, no error codes.
Read a few different places that it could be the torque converter clutch or the TCC solenoid.
Do these two options sound about right? Anything else anyone can think of?
LMP
05-06-2007, 03:45 PM
Which engine is it?
This behaviour is typical of crank position sensor failure; cannot be absolutely sure, but this is a high probability as it is a common problem, and although there is a code for that, very often it does not show, possibly because the failure is intermittent . IN fact, do you have the Check Engine Light ON? You can read the codes using this:
www.avigex.ca/readingcodes.jpg
(to make it short: connect A an B on diagnostic plug, turn key ON, read CEL blips: 12 (that is one blip, then 2) three times , then the probem codes, like 34 is three blips then four, always repeated three times.
This component (CPS) is impaired by heat and with time it fails and for a '93, it is...almost overdue. Changing it on the 3.8 is not too easy...but come back with more info first....
and....well the sticky TCC solenoid problem indeed is documented, but that means the engine will behave like you have a manual transmission and you try to stop without using the clutch...is that what you describe as your problem???..some parts of your description do not paint that problem as such..so I think this iis not the issue here.
This behaviour is typical of crank position sensor failure; cannot be absolutely sure, but this is a high probability as it is a common problem, and although there is a code for that, very often it does not show, possibly because the failure is intermittent . IN fact, do you have the Check Engine Light ON? You can read the codes using this:
www.avigex.ca/readingcodes.jpg
(to make it short: connect A an B on diagnostic plug, turn key ON, read CEL blips: 12 (that is one blip, then 2) three times , then the probem codes, like 34 is three blips then four, always repeated three times.
This component (CPS) is impaired by heat and with time it fails and for a '93, it is...almost overdue. Changing it on the 3.8 is not too easy...but come back with more info first....
and....well the sticky TCC solenoid problem indeed is documented, but that means the engine will behave like you have a manual transmission and you try to stop without using the clutch...is that what you describe as your problem???..some parts of your description do not paint that problem as such..so I think this iis not the issue here.
ArePee23
05-07-2007, 07:59 AM
Which engine is it? ... 3.1L
IN fact, do you have the Check Engine Light ON? You can read the codes using this: www.avigex.ca/readingcodes.jpg (http://www.avigex.ca/readingcodes.jpg) ....couldn't get this to load. wasn't sure what you meant, either.
This component (CPS) is impaired by heat and with time it fails and for a '93, it is...almost overdue. Changing it on the 3.8 is not too easy... what about on a 3.1L
The problem, in a little more detail, is this. Driving short trips, not a problem. Driving 25-30 miles or more is where things get tricky. After cruising along, vehicle starts to buck a little like it wants to stall when you start to slow down or apply the brake. When you stop, it stalls, sometimes stalling even before you reach a complete stop. You can restart the vehicle immediately, but when you try to shift into drive, it stalls again...and again...and again. If you let it sit for 5, 10 minutes, you're good to go.
Hope this helps. And thanks for your help!
IN fact, do you have the Check Engine Light ON? You can read the codes using this: www.avigex.ca/readingcodes.jpg (http://www.avigex.ca/readingcodes.jpg) ....couldn't get this to load. wasn't sure what you meant, either.
This component (CPS) is impaired by heat and with time it fails and for a '93, it is...almost overdue. Changing it on the 3.8 is not too easy... what about on a 3.1L
The problem, in a little more detail, is this. Driving short trips, not a problem. Driving 25-30 miles or more is where things get tricky. After cruising along, vehicle starts to buck a little like it wants to stall when you start to slow down or apply the brake. When you stop, it stalls, sometimes stalling even before you reach a complete stop. You can restart the vehicle immediately, but when you try to shift into drive, it stalls again...and again...and again. If you let it sit for 5, 10 minutes, you're good to go.
Hope this helps. And thanks for your help!
LMP
05-07-2007, 08:31 AM
my mistake: www.avigex.ca/xport/readingcodes.jpg
ArePee23
05-07-2007, 08:38 AM
I will see if I can find the tool to do that. Thank you. With my more detailed explanantion, is this still what it sounds like?
LMP
05-07-2007, 08:54 AM
my mistake: www.avigex.ca/xport/readingcodes.jpg
BUt then, is the CEL on?
..vehicle starts to buck a little ...when you start to slow down or apply the brake.
I just want to be sure these are not misfires. This could apply to spark failure as well as TCC lock-on. State the speed at whick "bucking" starts to show.
.. When you stop, it stalls, sometimes stalling even before you reach a complete stop.
DO you feel like the brake is stopping the engine . How do you compare that with a manual transmission where you would try to stop the car in gear without depressing the clutch? If, as you start to slow down, you shift to Neutral, would it "stall" ? ANd then, if you avoid the stalling by shiftiing to Neutral, then probably it would stall again when returning to Drive...
.You can restart the vehicle immediately, but when you try to shift into drive, it stalls again...and again...and again. If you let it sit for 5, 10 minutes, you're good to go.
This is what lets me think your first suspicion about the TCC solenoid is right. TCC solenoid has gone "sticky" and only after a few minutes it returns to "RELEASE" status. IN which case, the problem would not arise if you drive around without going over 45 mph...because TCC never applies below that speed.
There are several reports of this behaviour on this forum and on the 3.1 the solenoid can be changed with a little pain, but without major work.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=551757
ANd read the links within this thread: I think you will see if the description of the initial problem looks like yours: to me, it does.
BUt then, is the CEL on?
..vehicle starts to buck a little ...when you start to slow down or apply the brake.
I just want to be sure these are not misfires. This could apply to spark failure as well as TCC lock-on. State the speed at whick "bucking" starts to show.
.. When you stop, it stalls, sometimes stalling even before you reach a complete stop.
DO you feel like the brake is stopping the engine . How do you compare that with a manual transmission where you would try to stop the car in gear without depressing the clutch? If, as you start to slow down, you shift to Neutral, would it "stall" ? ANd then, if you avoid the stalling by shiftiing to Neutral, then probably it would stall again when returning to Drive...
.You can restart the vehicle immediately, but when you try to shift into drive, it stalls again...and again...and again. If you let it sit for 5, 10 minutes, you're good to go.
This is what lets me think your first suspicion about the TCC solenoid is right. TCC solenoid has gone "sticky" and only after a few minutes it returns to "RELEASE" status. IN which case, the problem would not arise if you drive around without going over 45 mph...because TCC never applies below that speed.
There are several reports of this behaviour on this forum and on the 3.1 the solenoid can be changed with a little pain, but without major work.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=551757
ANd read the links within this thread: I think you will see if the description of the initial problem looks like yours: to me, it does.
LMP
05-07-2007, 09:15 AM
ANd as stated in the related threads mentioned above, you can pinpoint the diagnostic once and for all...and in fact, run the car without problem (until you want to make the repair) if you disconnect the TCC plug . Engine will run faster on highway but in city driving, there will ne no significant changes as TCC applies only at higher speeds.
http://www.avigex.ca/xport/3T40tccplug.jpg
ANd if that does not clear the problem, then we are back to the ignition issue.
(in fact, I should have told you this right from the beginning....sorry to have made things more complicated than they had to be.. )
http://www.avigex.ca/xport/3T40tccplug.jpg
ANd if that does not clear the problem, then we are back to the ignition issue.
(in fact, I should have told you this right from the beginning....sorry to have made things more complicated than they had to be.. )
ArePee23
05-07-2007, 09:51 AM
Checking with my wife re: CEL. She drives it 99% of the time. Plugs and wires were changed recently, so I'm hoping it's not them. Speed is hard to gauge, as it's only when the car is warmed up good and we come to a stop. My guess is yes, over 45mph. Very rarely does it to do when just driving along, just when you slow down.
DO you feel like the brake is stopping the engine . ...not real sure how to answer that. It very well could be
DO you feel like the brake is stopping the engine . ...not real sure how to answer that. It very well could be
ArePee23
05-07-2007, 10:05 AM
Checked with my wife. She did not notice the CEL coming on.
LMP
05-07-2007, 10:32 AM
JUst disconnect the TCC plug and report what happens next: a 0$ 0 risk test. I'm most convinced it will "make the day".
ontariodave
08-27-2007, 12:15 AM
i have a 1995 lumina van and it stall at a stop lights .what is the problems.
LMP
08-27-2007, 03:55 PM
More details needed. SOme stall because TCC clutch stays locked...some for other reasons. Specify engine type.
LMP
08-31-2007, 02:58 PM
OK a 3.8....what is exact nature of stalling? Is the engine brought to a halt when you stop (stuck TCC...see adjacent thread..but with the 3.8, it is more complicated....). Will it stop if you shift to Neutral before stopping?
Jeffi
09-03-2007, 09:29 AM
How about an update ArePee? I'm betting LMP was bang on and that it is (was) the TCC, but we may never know!?!?
davebarny57
10-08-2007, 06:13 AM
How about an update ArePee? I'm betting LMP was bang on and that it is (was) the TCC, but we may never know!?!?I have the same problem on my 3.1 1990 have just unpluged and will report back if it works fingers crossed
davebarny57
10-08-2007, 06:20 AM
How about an update ArePee? I'm betting LMP was bang on and that it is (was) the TCC, but we may never know!?!?if it is the clutch solanoid where is it located and do you know what part no it is
Bkpie1
10-11-2007, 05:24 PM
I have a 93 Lumina APV which did the same thing. It would stall and I would have to wait about 5 to 10 minutes for the engine to cool before it would restart again. Finally the part went completely, it was the Ignition Control Module. When it got real hot, it would shut down, hence the stalling. I would try replacing that first, we have 202,000 miles on our van and we had to replace that part twice.
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