Ovals versus Road Courses

Does anyone know why North America favors Oval speedways yet in European countries, road courses are more popular? If I could try to explain it myself, and this is all guessing because I haven't been to Europe, but here in the early 20th century, racing was started around running moonshine across counties, and was developed by Junior Johnson, I think that's right and at some point we started building oval dirt tracks and drove our gutted out cars on them for a cash prize and to show we were the best.

In England, Germany, Italy and several more countries, they have hilly landscapes so that was how they developed their tracks but more specifically how did racing start over there? I could be really wrong but didn't they make illegal moonshine also? Someone help me out because it's good to know the facts.

We'll leave drag racing out of this for now. It's Ovals versus Road Courses.

I prefer a road course over oval any day. I'd get sick of turning the same way - kinda like running in track. Plus a road course would test your skills more too.

Because American cars can't handle the turns ;)

http://news.caradisiac.com/IMG/jpg/Nurburgring-lap-track.jpg

I would love to see a Nascar race at the n'ring, they'd think it was the end of the world as they know it.

Yeah I'm not sure my Iroc would do so well there, it's got a seriously impaired steering lock. Btw I didn't catch it but recently NASCAR went to Mexico City and I know that track has turns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtE17FkBksA
Look it's JPM!!
But anyway this isn't about why you don't want to race here or there...or in the case of this thread 'we hate ovals'....I want to know why the ovals are more important here and the N'ring is more important there.

probably because America has lots of long smooth straight roads.

europe has lots of twists and turns, we have a lot of narrow roads full of bends. it's probably also party to do with cars built for the markets. our cars have to have good cornering and handling abilities to deal with our roads, the us doesn't have roads anything like ours, so car makers don't build cars that handle like our, and so people can't race like us because their cars aren't built for it.

live axles aren't so good for bends.

Plus a road course would test your skills more too.

oh how i love that quote. ignorance is bliss my friend. oh by the way, can anyone tell me how montoya did at bristol? oh thats what i thought. oh and i like montoya too, so im not bashing him.

the best thing to do is not be ignorant about either one. they both take skill to drive well, key word, well.

Junior Johnson did not invent oval racing, or moon shining. he was just very very good at it. thats the roots of nascar, not necessarily oval racing in general. americans do oval racing because its more feasible as a hobby. you havent ever gone to the local races have you? check em out sometime, you may just like it. the local short track is something a guy can work on his car in the week and take it and drive it there for a hobby on the weekend. its also fun. its just tradition here. you wanna see something even more entertaining, go see a oval flat track dirt race. thats just awesome. those boys have some real skill. just imagine D1, except they are actually racing. you pose the question to why americans prefer oval racing as if they have downs syndrome or something... get real.

road racing is very cool too. i believe the grand prix tradition was started in france just as a competition in the early 1900's. F1 is rooted in that tradition if im not mistaken. and im sure the better nascar drivers could hand the ring just fine, given some practice. obviously no one is going to blaze the track till they run it a few times cause its rediculous. the cars wouldnt be near as fast as an open wheeler there, but thats a given. and i dont think it has anything to do with car build as to why we race ovals, we are talking about race cars. how everyday cars are built is irrelevant.

bottom line is this thread probably wont make it very long because too many people are ignorant as hell and bash one form and praise the other and it gets people ticked off.

i love how the n'ring looks like a pigs head... anyone else notice that?

i love how the n'ring looks like a pigs head... anyone else notice that?

Now that you pointed it out, I'm starting to see some real close resemblance to mushman. :icon16:
Kinda.

I love it when people say Europe has all the turns and America has long straight smooth roads. Apparently, those people have never seen the mountainous regions of America. There are hill climb trials and other such races sponsored by the SCCA that do require turning in a race car. There are even SCCA Rally events.

Personally, I enjoy watching racing in any form. I enjoy the high speed long oval track races like Talladega and Atlanta and I also enjoy watching the road track races where there are not just turns in each direction but slight changes in elevation as well...

Lol Stang, I like how you drew the eye yourself to help us visualize. :bigthumb: Oh, you forgot to point out where the nose is at. :iceslolan

oh how i love that quote. ignorance is bliss my friend. oh by the way, can anyone tell me how montoya did at bristol? oh thats what i thought. oh and i like montoya too, so im not bashing him.

the best thing to do is not be ignorant about either one. they both take skill to drive well, key word, well.

Junior Johnson did not invent oval racing, or moon shining. he was just very very good at it. thats the roots of nascar, not necessarily oval racing in general. americans do oval racing because its more feasible as a hobby. you havent ever gone to the local races have you? check em out sometime, you may just like it. the local short track is something a guy can work on his car in the week and take it and drive it there for a hobby on the weekend. its also fun. its just tradition here. you wanna see something even more entertaining, go see a oval flat track dirt race. thats just awesome. those boys have some real skill. just imagine D1, except they are actually racing. you pose the question to why americans prefer oval racing as if they have downs syndrome or something... get real.

road racing is very cool too. i believe the grand prix tradition was started in france just as a competition in the early 1900's. F1 is rooted in that tradition if im not mistaken. and im sure the better nascar drivers could hand the ring just fine, given some practice. obviously no one is going to blaze the track till they run it a few times cause its rediculous. the cars wouldnt be near as fast as an open wheeler there, but thats a given. and i dont think it has anything to do with car build as to why we race ovals, we are talking about race cars. how everyday cars are built is irrelevant.

bottom line is this thread probably wont make it very long because too many people are ignorant as hell and bash one form and praise the other and it gets people ticked off.Yeah they both take skill, its just that a road corse yakes more cuz of the sharper turns over an oval. So its also gonna test your setup more too. I don't mind an oval, I would just rather race a road course. I'm not being ignorant about it.

Lol Stang, I like how you drew the eye yourself to help us visualize. :bigthumb: Oh, you forgot to point out where the nose is at. :iceslolan

lol well i didnt think id need to point the nose out :dunno:

Yeah they both take skill, its just that a road corse yakes more cuz of the sharper turns over an oval. So its also gonna test your setup more too. I don't mind an oval, I would just rather race a road course. I'm not being ignorant about it.

you are too being ignorant about it. im not using that term as an insult. but you obviously have no idea about what it takes to win an oval race. your bashing something you dont know anything about. sure an oval is easy to get around, but its not easy to get around fast. thats the whole point. and it tests your set up just as much, the set up is just very very different. and how sharp a corner is does not directly relate to how difficult it is. it can, but it doesnt always. the toughest corner on the mexico city road course was the high speed chicane they had. it comes right down to this, both road courses and ovals involve the same thing, braking and turning. but its still not that simple as you have to set the corner up just right in order to get through it fastest. like i said, if a road course takes so much more skill, then how come montoya finished 32nd, 7 laps down sunday?

I know your not being insultive. I'm not even sure who Montoya is. When I watch a race, I don't follow a certain racer or pay attention to who each racer is, and I havent been watching races lately tho either, havent had time. Being my senior year and close to graduation, job, and a few other personal things haven't really allowed me to lately.

I know your not being insultive. I'm not even sure who Montoya is. When I watch a race, I don't follow a certain racer or pay attention to who each racer is, and I havent been watching races lately tho either, havent had time. Being my senior year and close to graduation, job, and a few other personal things haven't really allowed me to lately.


so basically, you don't know what you're talking about?

anyway.
F1 and Nascar are different enough to almost require different skillsets, just like WRC also takes a nother set of skills. That's why you don't often see much overlap between drivers of those three types of racing.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Nascar because I find it boring to watch and the commentary really annoys me. On the other hand, I find modern F1 is also a bit boring too; me being a bigger fan of '80s and early '90s F1 more than '00s F1. Going further back, I'd love to have been around when the cars were "purer" and when Nuvolari first drifted around Monaco or when the RA272 first screamed its way to a race win or when Lotus' first round effects car started making drivers pass out...

I have to say, it is a bit interesting why the US hasn't taken to "road" courses (don't kid yourself that an F1 track is anything like a real road just because it has corners...) considering that the Panamerica was just as big as the Mille Miglia way back when.
As it has been said, this is probabaly down to accessibilty of the sport.
As some of us should know by now, even going into amatuer racing isn't the easiest or the cheapest thing to do properly.

Im talking about Juan Pablo Montoya, former F1 driver. Won Monaco which is supposed to be one of the most difficult tracks in the world... and had six other F1 wins.

I love it when people say Europe has all the turns and America has long straight smooth roads. Apparently, those people have never seen the mountainous regions of America. There are hill climb trials and other such races sponsored by the SCCA that do require turning in a race car. There are even SCCA Rally events.

and come to Europe and you'll see that other than motorways, there are very few straight roads. so comparaitively, Europe does have more bends and narrow roads. and yes, i have been the the mountainous regions of the US. (Vail, Colorado)

the mountainous areas of new york are great, not only very curvy, but many of the roads are still dirt. its pretty cool i think. shows how pathetic that state is though. they have all these taxes on damn near everything, yet they cant afford to pave their roads. all the peoples tax money in that area goes straight to NYC.

the mountainous areas of new york are great, not only very curvy, but many of the roads are still dirt. its pretty cool i think. shows how pathetic that state is though. they have all these taxes on damn near everything, yet they cant afford to pave their roads. all the peoples tax money in that area goes straight to NYC.


I didnt know there was a New York outside of NYC...For real though, Its got to take constant repaving in a city the size of NYC.

I didnt know there was a New York outside of NYC...For real though, Its got to take constant repaving in a city the size of NYC.
Huh?


New York City, New York.


NYC is in New York...

You know... the joke... New York is so great they named it twice...

C'mon man!... New York, New York!


sigh... :frown: you're killin me smalls!

Huh?


New York City, New York.


NYC is in New York...

You know... the joke... New York is so great they named it twice...

C'mon man!... New York, New York!


sigh... :frown: you're killin me smalls!

Ugh... :uhoh: Am I the only one that's confused? :icon16:

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/278655Nurburgring-lap-track.jpg

lol man you're wrecked but yeah I do see it.

New York has unpaved roads? where? I know it gets really hick in the country but I'm originally from long island. Actually there's a road in upstate new york that SHOULD be a race track, the only road you can take to get to Hunter Mountain(ski resort), although it's more thrilling when you take the sharp turns and you find an 18 wheeler scraping through the guardrail, headed in your direction. It's fun.

Sure America does have a fair share of both road courses and rally circuits, no way excluding Pikes Peak!!!

As for different skillsets to drive road courses, ovals and rallies- on road courses, I imagine to be better then other racers, you have to have 2 basic things, a better setup for the car, and to push yourself around turns faster then the other guy. On an oval, it's not that easy to compare them, it's a whole constant high speed chase and more side by side racing. So how do you push there?

The Oval thing is a missconception about American racing culture.
We have other forms of racing here like Indy and Grand Am series and such.
Nascar is just the best sponsored one so its the one that we see advertized everywhere.

some day Top Gear is gonna pit a Nascar Champ against a F1 champ against a Rally champ and then we'll see whats what!

so basically, you don't know what you're talking about?

anyway.
F1 and Nascar are different enough to almost require different skillsets, just like WRC also takes a nother set of skills. That's why you don't often see much overlap between drivers of those three types of racing.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Nascar because I find it boring to watch and the commentary really annoys me. On the other hand, I find modern F1 is also a bit boring too; me being a bigger fan of '80s and early '90s F1 more than '00s F1. Going further back, I'd love to have been around when the cars were "purer" and when Nuvolari first drifted around Monaco or when the RA272 first screamed its way to a race win or when Lotus' first round effects car started making drivers pass out...

I have to say, it is a bit interesting why the US hasn't taken to "road" courses (don't kid yourself that an F1 track is anything like a real road just because it has corners...) considering that the Panamerica was just as big as the Mille Miglia way back when.
As it has been said, this is probabaly down to accessibilty of the sport.
As some of us should know by now, even going into amatuer racing isn't the easiest or the cheapest thing to do properly.I know what I'm talkin abut, I just dont care to follow who the drivers are. I just don't care. I don't know why, but I just dont.

New York has unpaved roads? where? I know it gets really hick in the country but I'm originally from long island. Actually there's a road in upstate new york that SHOULD be a race track, the only road you can take to get to Hunter Mountain(ski resort), although it's more thrilling when you take the sharp turns and you find an 18 wheeler scraping through the guardrail, headed in your direction. It's fun.

Sure America does have a fair share of both road courses and rally circuits, no way excluding Pikes Peak!!!

As for different skillsets to drive road courses, ovals and rallies- on road courses, I imagine to be better then other racers, you have to have 2 basic things, a better setup for the car, and to push yourself around turns faster then the other guy. On an oval, it's not that easy to compare them, it's a whole constant high speed chase and more side by side racing. So how do you push there?

ever been around owego? up in the mountains in that area you can find dirt roads. lounsberry in particular.

a big thing on road courses is following the right line and often times you need to be very smooth, although not always. some drivers have different styles. rusty wallace used to win nascar road races and he wrestled the damn thing. on an oval, setup is just as important definatly. but you seem to think its just hammering the gas and driving in a circle when thats not even the half of it. it is still important to follow a good line, however sometimes there can be more than one good line depending on car set up and driver style. for instance if you were to watch mark martin race, usually he will stick to the bottom in the corners. dale earnhart jr often times likes to ride around the top of the track. theres more to it than people realize. you have to set your car up with braking while entering the corner, but not braking like you see in a road race. then you still have to be able to push your car the hardest possible coming out of the corner without spinning it. if you look at a still shot of a car on the bottom you will notice how the back end is slightly farther from the bottom. those guys are in a slight drift. you wanna see skill on a oval, watch martinsville on sunday. i cant promise itll be exciting, and i know it wont be fast. and they are using the retarded COT so it wont be as good cause of that. but i love watching the good drivers, like gordon, earnhart, JJ, stewart, kenseth, and some of the others to see exactly how they pass people and how they get around the track. they really are good. last year (i think it was last year) dale jr. had one of my favorite runs ever at martinsville when he got stuffed in the wall but they just tore off his fenders and he went out there and got a top 5 finish with no sheet metal. he couldnt bump guys to pass cause his tire was exposed, it was a pretty good display of driving.

Actually there's a nice dirt track 25 miles from here. It's called Albany-Saratoga Speedway. If my auto club plays our cards right, we're going to go EVERY friday night at 5 from the campus. We'll see how well that works out, just need cars to hop in and go. I've driven there before but I don't have my car right now, and I have seen the dirt powersliding, and it is GOOD.

When a Nascar gets loose, or sliding on a track, but a countered drift, they've got more speed so that's why NASCAR guys say 'loose is fast'. As far as I have seen, It's not that much the same in Formula...with mid positioned engines you can swing around a lot. Kovalainen(sp?) just did it at australia, did a smooth 360. Maybe they can slide, I just haven't seen it yet.

You just reminded me. Where I just moved to I'm now about 10 minutes from the local short round dirt track. I'll have to go check that out for sure.

As for dirt roads here in SC... it's a no-brainer. I probably drive better on the mountain dirt roads than the paved ones... haha

Ya know, I used to maintain an ignorance towards NASCAR but then I learned a lot about the dynamics of it and how much it takes for a team to race, much less finish a race. Those guys have serious skills just like the teams of other forms of racing have serious skills. But I still think WRC Rally drivers have god-like driving abilities and their co-pilots are crazy. As for the WRC fans, some get a little too close IMO. There is an annual scca rally in Cheraw, SC every year in which I've had the chance to volunteer but it's 2 hours from me and I haven't had the time. I think it would be quite an experience to be a part of that. Needless to say, it's a little more involved than your average SCCA parking lot cone battles.

all i have to say about this is: watch a nascar road race. then proceed to point and laugh at all the retarted lack of driving skills displayed when turning BOTH ways comes into play. shit most top name nascar guys wont even race road races...ever see dale jr on a road course? no. well actually the last time he did his car exploded in qualifying. and he wasnt even close to the front of the pack. in a c5r. it makes me wonder if their brains are all permanently wedged in teh side of their brains from going around and around the same direction all the time.

Lotus' first round effects car started making drivers pass out...

That's not all, it's rumoured that when driving one of the cars designed by Gordeon Murray, the g-forces were so strong during conrnering, Nelson Piquet often found himself giving into the call of nature.

ahhh....
that's the real reason for the banning of ground effects.
have you noticed how many things that Lotus brought to F1 eventually get's banned?

all i have to say about this is: watch a nascar road race. then proceed to point and laugh at all the retarted lack of driving skills displayed when turning BOTH ways comes into play. shit most top name nascar guys wont even race road races...ever see dale jr on a road course? no. well actually the last time he did his car exploded in qualifying. and he wasnt even close to the front of the pack. in a c5r. it makes me wonder if their brains are all permanently wedged in teh side of their brains from going around and around the same direction all the time.

you are right in some respects. some of the guys blow. but the guys up front really can drive road courses. jeff gordon grew up racing on road courses in karts. tony stewart... well hes tony stewart. some others are just good. denny hamlin is an oval guy but hes showed some skill on road courses too. when you say most top name nascar guys, dale jr. is only one. a lot of top name guys race in the rolex 24 at dayotna all the time. by the end of a nascar road race you usually will see some good driving because by that point all the retards wrecked already. besides, a road course specialist has never won a road race i dont think, atleast not in a long long time. so it shows the guys that win know what theyre doing. im looking forward to seeing how montoya and allmendinger compete with the top guys. one of them might win, i wouldnt rule that out. but i think itll be a heck of a lot closer than that busch race was at mexico city.

i wanna see someone from nascar try and compete in scca speed world challenge. then we'll put this to rest.

put what to rest? theres nothing to put to rest.

but anyway, now that you mention scca. jimmie johnson is racing in the charlotte race in scca in a cadillac. hes not one of the more established road racers in nascar. but i dont think hes to bad. he was third fastest in testing.

Nascars are not designed for Road Courses, I tried on rFactor, it really didn't work. Same thing happened to me in Dirt 2 Daytona at Infineon. These cars don't like to turn, unlike a Formula car, which does not like to go in a straight line.

Nascars are not designed for Road Courses, I tried on rFactor, it really didn't work. Same thing happened to me in Dirt 2 Daytona at Infineon. These cars don't like to turn, unlike a Formula car, which does not like to go in a straight line.

Stop comparing games to real life. A Nextel cup car can be tuned for turning, they have very advanced suspensions, although they're primarily designed for going around ovals....ugh that's besides the point... stop refering to games.

It's like if I were to keep talking about various First person shooter games like Call of Duty and try and say it's similar to real combat. It's not. It's just entertainment and it'll never be the real deal. (After countless hours playing Doom2 and Quake, I'd never assume I've gotten enough 'training' to be ready for real combat.)

At the end of the day if you screw up you can turn the game off. The real deal if you screw up you get hurt or die, or somebody else gets hurt or dies.


Thank you.

I'm not going to explain right now why rFactor shouldn't be taken lightly so just humor me.

I drove a stock car from a mod based on the COT concepts, designed to give people a chance to drive the cars on a mainstream before the COTs are really implemented in NASCAR. That being said, I took it out on a small track called Mills Metropark, a track that comes installed with the game, built by professionals, and on defaults, tuned for ovals it was terrible. I can see that tuning will help but how much will it really change the handling characteristics? I still do not believe it's designed for road courses. ATM I'm interested in getting a road setup for it, to really see how well it handles.

EDIT- I've continued to try and get better lap times in the COT NASCAR, and on a new track, Toban Raceway Park. It takes a lot getting around the track once, mostly because you have to have to brake really hard, no wait, that's the HARDEST I've ever had to brake in this game. The tires are much hotter then what i've driven, I watched them start around 100 and jump to 220...well there goes my grip. I'm still learning on setups but I think I see a pattern developing here why it won't turn. Time to get a real NASCAR road course, and I know Mexico City's racing line.

... You did it again!

... You did it again!

and you don't know how to compare games to real life, there is a way :2cents:

these things are really good at braking in a straight line, aka on an oval, but any handling/oversteer is dialed out of the tuning completely. I'm still workking on it...

It's like if I were to keep talking about various First person shooter games like Call of Duty and try and say it's similar to real combat. It's not. It's just entertainment and it'll never be the real deal. (After countless hours playing Doom2 and Quake, I'd never assume I've gotten enough 'training' to be ready for real combat.)

At the end of the day if you screw up you can turn the game off. The real deal if you screw up you get hurt or die, or somebody else gets hurt or dies.


Dude, everyone knows FPSs are just like real life. Seriously. Just with better graphics. The only thing that sucks is if you get massive lag, its a guarenteed death. But I dunno, I heard real life doesn't have respawn points?

Dude, everyone knows FPSs are just like real life. Seriously. Just with better graphics. The only thing that sucks is if you get massive lag, its a guarenteed death. But I dunno, I heard real life doesn't have respawn points?

FPS Doug FTW!!!!1111 BOOM HEADSHOT!!!!

Ugh.


Get enough money for just one lap of an actual track. Just one. Then go back to the games and compare

and you don't know how to compare games to real life, there is a way :2cents:

you have got to be joking.

you say how much can tuning change the handling characteristics of an oval tuned car? well... a frickin crap load thats how much. it would be completely night and day. oval cars dont go straight, and thats a fact. they go left. guess what happens if you let go of the steering wheel on an oval car. it goes left. everything is changed for a road course. and i mean everything, for the setup. stig was right in what he said earlier about the suspensions. if your comparing them turning to a F1 car, then no they dont turn. because those pull over 4 g's through corners.

you have got to be joking.

you say how much can tuning change the handling characteristics of an oval tuned car? well... a frickin crap load thats how much. it would be completely night and day. oval cars dont go straight, and thats a fact. they go left. guess what happens if you let go of the steering wheel on an oval car. it goes left. everything is changed for a road course. and i mean everything, for the setup. stig was right in what he said earlier about the suspensions. if your comparing them turning to a F1 car, then no they dont turn. because those pull over 4 g's through corners.

OK so let's get to tuning! There should be enough here to change that will give the car a lot more grip in the corners.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/DynographK/setup_setups.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/DynographK/setup_gen.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/DynographK/setup_suspension.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/DynographK/setup_adv.jpg

EDIT- It's possible for a lap on default settings actually, but it takes a lot of early and hard braking before turns, and no more then 1st gear in the esses at Mexico City. I got a 2:15, spun out of the last turn...which is supposed to be a high speed turn...i'm not trying again until I get a better setup.

is that your set up for the road course? looks like an oval set up to me. lower the air pressures some. the nascar race right now in martinsville, they are only running about 8-10lbs in the left side tires.

that is pretty in depth. but it still cant have everything. basically everything on there will be different though. its a different type of racing.

is that your set up for the road course? looks like an oval set up to me. lower the air pressures some. the nascar race right now in martinsville, they are only running about 8-10lbs in the left side tires.

that is pretty in depth. but it still cant have everything. basically everything on there will be different though. its a different type of racing.

You're right that's the default setup for ovals. If anyone here knows a thing about tuning I implore you to help us on changing the car to road worthy. You're right that a game can't have everything but for virtual purposes there's enough here to give us an idea how much we as race engineers or techs would have to change the car in a real road race.

You're right that a game can't have everything but for virtual purposes there's enough here to give us an idea how much we as race engineers or techs would have to change the car in a real road race.

so you're a race engineer/technician as well as being a racing driver?

anyway.
what do you want to know?
how to get that car to behave normally?

if that's the case then first thing is fix it so that both sides match....

and you don't know how to compare games to real life, there is a way :2cents:

these things are really good at braking in a straight line, aka on an oval, but any handling/oversteer is dialed out of the tuning completely. I'm still workking on it...


annndddd....... you've just lost all credibility to me. :disappoin

annndddd....... you've just lost all credibility to me. :disappoin


that would only be a problem if he had any to begin with.
playing and enjoying racing games is fine, just don't think that they're anything like real life.

that would only be a problem if he had any to begin with.
playing and enjoying racing games is fine, just don't think that they're anything like real life.


So true...

denial is not just a river in egypt

denial is not just a river in egypt

That's a river?
:rolleyes:

Quite a large one in fact

What is credibility really? All I would have to do is convince a real race driver that plays rFactor to come here and he'll tell you the differences between real life and the game. I don't know any personally, but they sure as hell kick our asses in my league.

I bet many famous people lost credibility...before they were famous.

You're comedy.

What is credibility really? All I would have to do is convince a real race driver that plays rFactor to come here and he'll tell you the differences between real life and the game. I don't know any personally, but they sure as hell kick our asses in my league.

Yeah, I bet on their free time Tony Stewart and Micheal Schumacher and John Force all get together and sit around eating pizza and drinking beer, and play a racing video game. This would be like me saying, "Well, all I need to do is get a real Navy SEAL to come say that Ghost Recon is realistic, and then I'll be able to join the Special Force for real."

C'mon man, that game offers the same damned tunability as the cars in Forza or Grand Tourismo 4, does that mean if I play those games I can go out and race those cars like a bad ass around a track?

Have you ever seen a car tuned for the oval? Like, not on TV, but up close. The every little bit of that car is set up to specifically go in a left bank turn as fast as it God damned can. The car even sits lower on the inside durring a stop. Then the real race technicians, not a some stereotyping teenage asshole with a damned video game, get into it, and change everything. I mean everything. Just because your idiot ass can't hack it in some video game program doesn't mean they cant.

So, in conclusion:
1. If you think a video game simulates real life 100%, you are proof God exists, cause Darwinism should have taken you out a LONG ASS time ago.
2. Race car engineers spend their lives learning how to set these cars up, so I'm pretty sure they can set up a car to do damned near anything.
3. On an equal track, with equal conditions and equal drivers, an F1 car will most likely smoke a road tuned stock car around a track. But hey, given the same conditions, a Lotus Exige would do the same to a Civic. An F1 car and a Cup Car are two different worlds, so don't compare them.
4. A NASCAR Car can handle if set up to do so.
5. This thread makes my head hurt.

Whose next?

Yeah, I bet on their free time Tony Stewart and Micheal Schumacher and John Force all get together and sit around eating pizza and drinking beer, and play a racing video game. This would be like me saying, "Well, all I need to do is get a real Navy SEAL to come say that Ghost Recon is realistic, and then I'll be able to join the Special Force for real."

C'mon man, that game offers the same damned tunability as the cars in Forza or Grand Tourismo 4, does that mean if I play those games I can go out and race those cars like a bad ass around a track?

Have you ever seen a car tuned for the oval? Like, not on TV, but up close. The every little bit of that car is set up to specifically go in a left bank turn as fast as it God damned can. The car even sits lower on the inside durring a stop. Then the real race technicians, not a some stereotyping teenage asshole with a damned video game, get into it, and change everything. I mean everything. Just because your idiot ass can't hack it in some video game program doesn't mean they cant.

So, in conclusion:
1. If you think a video game simulates real life 100%, you are proof God exists, cause Darwinism should have taken you out a LONG ASS time ago.
2. Race car engineers spend their lives learning how to set these cars up, so I'm pretty sure they can set up a car to do damned near anything.
3. On an equal track, with equal conditions and equal drivers, an F1 car will most likely smoke a road tuned stock car around a track. But hey, given the same conditions, a Lotus Exige would do the same to a Civic. An F1 car and a Cup Car are two different worlds, so don't compare them.
4. A NASCAR Car can handle if set up to do so.
5. This thread makes my head hurt.

Whose next?

Boo YEAH!
Cass is on a roll! Get the fawck out of THE way. :grinyes:

With all honestly, reading all these posts made my head hurt, so number 5 Cass, is right on the money...

I don't feel like reading that whole thing, but you need to know a few things, GT4 and Forza SUCK compared to sim racing. The reason is that they're video games made for people to have fun with. rFactor is a simulator, it''s not for everyone, meaning it's harder.

Anyone who plays sim racing will definitely learn a thing or too about tuning.

Last year, in my league which is the official sim racing league for Champ Car, AJ Allmendinger which is a previous champion played in SimCar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgBnBn1EqJ4

In one of my races, a professional racer named Tom Milner from the ALMS raced with us and dominated the race. How did I know he was a pro? Simple, because everyone in my league couldn't keep their mouths shut about it, because it was friggin awesome!!! He was once in FBMW, the race series I drive. He would be able to make a GOOD comparison.

Of course, as I'm learning, none of the pros play all the time. Funny you said Tony Stewart, he races online in Papyrus's NR2003 with other drivers.

EDIT- oh it's a good thing I didn't read all of that before my post because I would have seen all those nice words you called me.