Ovals versus Road Courses

Know why that guy is so good playing your PC based CarSim?

It's because he's a real race driver. He knows all the crap already, it's easy for him to play a game and do good. What people at home can't do is play the game, then step into a race car and expect to do good... there's a thing called fear and experiance that keep you from knowing what to do.

It's like Fighter pilots. They train for countless hours in simulators, that are far superior to anything we've got at home. But before they're handed the 'keys' to a multi-billion dollar aircraft, they're put in a training plane with a veteran instructor and they start all over again.

They just don't hope in a sim, learn to get the plane off the ground and then go hop in the real thing and take on the world.

No. It takes months of training and schooling before they're allowed to do anything.

Same as race car driving. Except, your simulator is a steering wheel clamped to a desk with a cup holder. Hardly sophisticated.

Unless you get one of these. http://www.virtualgt.com/

I know the guy who designed it, and helped test out some of the 'beta' versions before it went into production. It's pretty damn sophisticated as far as sound equiptment goes and feeling of the wheel and pedals. But, it's still lacking the moving physics to really bring you into the world of racing.

But if you want to play your sim games, this is the machine to do it on. Best of the best right there.

Wow that thing looks sweet. But in the end, is investing that much money into something like that really worth it?
Not to me it's not.

It's for rich folks... I believe Michael Jordan has I believe 4 of them.. maybe 6.. which the owner of virtualGT personally went to install them.

I mean, who wouldn't want to go to Jordans house? haha...

He'll also be at the Long Beach GP this coming week with I believe 8 machines hooked together for demos. I stopped by his house friday and he was testing out a new PA system that ties into the simulators sound systems so he can talk to all or individual machines.

Dudes a genious when it comes to electronics. Literally.

So wait, you know the guy personally?
That's insane...

And of course I would want to go down to Jordans house, I loved the guy ever since he started playing for the Bulls, and I still admire his basketball greatness. Oh, and by the way. Bulls FTW!

:grinno:

Not really a huge basketball fan, so I'd go to a Jordan party, but dunno if I'd just go to chill, not sure either of us would have anything to talk about. Of course, he does have a bike racing team. So maybe we would be able to talk.

How can you argue against me when you've never played the game? You do not know how real this game gets. It's a generalization that a game is not anything like real life, I'm talking about simulators, which are tested over and over until the general public (hardcore race fans, real racers) are satisfied with the realisticness of the product. Next year it gets better, with either updates or a new game entirely.

It's not about crashing in the game and not dying/getting surgery in real life (because that would happen). It's about learning what your car is capable of at it's limits, and learning what those around you are capable of, so this translates to courteous driving, which means if any of these people do really race (a lot do) that they are POSSIBLY AND WITHIN REASON safer on the track, and are careful around others. Wouldn't they be careful around others because they don't want to get hurt or get penalized for reckless driving? of course, but sim games will prepare you for the worst, because if it's a sim, it hasn't really happened, but you see the best result that the programmers, engineers can bring you.

I don't see why you guys are getting so defensive, do you race? do you sim? if not, why do you care? Stop acting like know-it-alls about something you don't know about.

How can you argue against me when you've never played the game? You do not know how real this game gets. It's a generalization that a game is not anything like real life, I'm talking about simulators, which are tested over and over until the general public (hardcore race fans, real racers) are satisfied with the realisticness of the product. Next year it gets better, with either updates or a new game entirely.

So this makes you...

A)A game designer/beta tester for this game
B)A real racer
C)A race car engineer
D)A hardcore race fan

But wait...

If you are a game designer, your designing a game that is saying that a NASCAR car can't hack turns. But real life shows if properly set up, they can. So option A is out. If you are a real racer or engineer, you would know that a NASCAR car can be set up very well to take turns. So B and C are out. So, it would leave you at D, a hardcore race fan. But wait. Again, as a hardcore fan, you would have seen that every now and then, NASCAR cars race on road tracks, maybe not the Ring, but still twisty tracks, and that they can do fairly well there. So, D is ruled out.

I'm gonna go with option E: Some one whose played to damned many car racing video games and now thinks they know more about motorsports than any human being alive. Yeah, that seems to be about right.

And don't even get me started on simulators v. entertainment video games. I basically grew up in Pensacola on the Naval Air Station, and one of the many excellent memories I was able to expierence there was getting an hour of seat time in a military simulator for the F/A-18. Trust me, I know first hand the difference between a simulator and a video game. Straping a logitech wheel to your computer desk and fooling around with some numbers in a chat room is not a simulator. What -TheStig- posted up is a simulator.

I'm outy. Peace.

imaginary scenario to test the "reality" of racing games.

i) take KidA and give him 50 hours of solid track time.
ii) take KidB and give him 50 solid hours on a PC game.

stick both on a real track (not the one KidA learned on to make it more fair)
give KidB a 15 second head start (to make it more fair)

Who will win?

imaginary scenario to test the "reality" of racing games.

i) take KidA and give him 50 hours of solid track time.
ii) take KidB and give him 50 solid hours on a PC game.

stick both on a real track (not the one KidA learned on to make it more fair)
give KidB a 15 second head start (to make it more fair)

Who will win?

Kid A, that's a stupid question. and for the record I would rather be kid A, so what, that means I'm not allowed to play sim racers and think what I think?

Cassiesman, you just brought a whole new thing into the conversation, I can be a hardcore race fan and not know how to tune a NASCAR, because...well that's reality in NASCAR, but I could learn it. Hell that's what I was trying to do right now but you just kept undermining me.

I am not a pro racer, I am not an engineer, I am not a game designer, I said very important professionals were involved with making this game. I'll add that this doesn't happen in a game like GT4 or Forza, let alone a NFS game or Ridge Racer. This does happen on a regular basis with racing simulations. But what you said is that I have to know ALL OF THE INFORMATION IN THOUSAND'S OF THESE GUY'S BRAINS or posting here doesn't mean anything. Kinda defeats the purpose of LEARNING doesn't it???

So Cassiesman, you basically said, I have to know all that stuff or I shouldn't talk. That's a good idea, why not? why not learn all the realistic and non realistic intricacies of gaming, why not learn all the developers that helped make this game I play and all the racers that had a part in it. I have a better idea, let's start with these:

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=284594

sorry If I'm taking you behind enemy lines here. UPDATE, Michael Schumacher has played online sim racing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piH0jVgYbqQ
there's other videos online but they say it's him. Here's a comparison between the game and racing, the sim driver is not alonso, but you could figure that out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTVHefPWPqo

Games have come a long way from pong ok?

How can you argue against me when you've never played the game? You do not know how real this game gets.

I don't see why you guys are getting so defensive, do you race? do you sim? if not, why do you care? Stop acting like know-it-alls about something you don't know about.
Actually, I have played all the major SimRace games on that VirtualGT machine. Remember, I beta tested it before it went into production, the guy would put me in a game, let me do some laps... then he'd stop and start another SimGame.

Which pissed me off really, I never got a lot of seat time on any one program to get comfortable with it. I'd spend the first 3-5 laps spinning out and just learning the feel of the controls and start to do good, then he'd pause, quit the program via a remote keyboard... start a new program and ask me to try it.

I never got good at it due to lack of seat time, but the earliest versions of the VirtualGT used a PS2 for playing GT3 which was the original concept, but later he modified it to run PC based SimGames due to the higher graphics capability. When he was still doing the GT3 stuff, really used my inputs then. Infact, I brought a Memory card from my house with some Drifting replays I had done with a few various cars and he liked them so much he had me copy them to his card so he could use them as Demo videos. Not sure if he ever used them cause shortly after he went PC based.

He also was amazed how somebody could live and race with the dual-shock controllers that come with the PS2. Infact, I was so used to the dual-shock I had a hard time using the GT wheel and pedals, my lap times were considerably slower. Meh, it all takes time to master. This guy has all the time in the world to play with his toys haha.

... so the point I'm making is... I've played your SimGames, not to the extent that you probably have no doubt... but I've played them and have been impressed by their realism. But they pale in comparisson to when I'd go Kart racing. The games don't give you the feeling of the ass end sliding out from under you, all you get in the game is the screen rotating opposite of where you're trying to go.

It's the sense of knowing that if you slam the brakes, the rear will get light and swing around on you. Or learning to left-foot brake through a turn to keep steady... knowledge you get only from being out there doing it.

It's no different from peope who magazine race, people who spout out numbers about car-A beating car-B. It means nothing till you get out there and see for yourself.

That's all we're saying... plus E-Racing isn't sexy and doesn't get you girls.

"Hey baby... did you know I'm a race car driver?:naughty:"
"Oh!? really? wow...!:eek:"
"Yeah, I win all the hottest games... you should come by sometime, I'll show you how it's done. :wink:"
":rolleyes:"

Also watch this-
http://superspeedway.net/jla/images/stories/videos/ESPN_sim-video.wmv

I like this video a lot, now I don't feel so stupid, like you guys made me feel...btw thanks for that. You don't think my friends have used that get girls with gaming joke on me tons of times? You know what? I don't care. But what I do care about is people not being ignorant.

"games have gone beyond something to pick up for fun"

Kid A, that's a stupid question. and for the record I would rather be kid A, so what, that means I'm not allowed to play sim racers and think what I think?


why is it a stupid question?
you keep saying that the games are comparable to reality.
if they are comparable, that infers that there is no difference.
Unless of course, you are now saying that they aren't comparable after all.

Oh... and in the game, when you get pushed into a wall the screen just shakes or the controller vibrates.

When you go kart racing, like I did a while back with a buncha buddies... my friend and I came out of the straight away neck and neck, he had the inside line through a right hander, as we went towards the outside closing in on the outside wall I made the mental decission that I wasn't going to let off... neither did he... and he pinned me up against the wall which stopped my 25mph turn to 0mph in an instant. I almost came out of my seat and over the wheel in the kart. Didn't get hurt... I actually laughed about it because I could of avoided it by letting off, but hell if I was going to let him pass me without earning it.

Rubbin's racin'.

why is it a stupid question?
you keep saying that the games are comparable to reality.
if they are comparable, that infers that there is no difference.
Unless of course, you are now saying that they aren't comparable after all.

since when did a comparison turn into no differences at all? Drunken, for the first time ever, you have totally confused me.

I know there's a lot of flaming here but I'm glad this thread is going in the right direction now.

Do you think maybe they could make a chair with four or five motors, so you feel when the car is sliding and in what direction? That might help realism. Believe it or not, I FULL WELL know when my simcar breaks traction and how to control it, or...crash it without damaging it. Sound of the car skidding helps, the screen moves at the same time. I also downshift and upshift by the sounds.

I want to start karting this summer, either in rotax, 4 stroke...I don't even know anymore, all I have to do is sell my car...sounds easy enough.

since when did a comparison turn into no differences at all? Drunken, for the first time ever, you have totally confused me.

oh, right, so when you're talking about them being comparable, you mean is the sense that a dog turd can be compared to an apple pie.
both have a slighty mushy and sticky consistancy and you can "eat" both of them.
therefore, dog turd is like apple pie?

to be fair, you never qualified yourself as to how comparable they are but you keep saying that you learn a lot about racing from your games. That infers that they are similar. Everyone is telling you they are not.

I know there's a lot of flaming here but I'm glad this thread is going in the right direction now.

Pointing out the obvious to someone who doesn't want to accept it is not flaming.

Do you think maybe they could make a chair with four or five motors, so you feel when the car is sliding and in what direction? That might help realism. Believe it or not, I FULL WELL know when my simcar breaks traction and how to control it, or...crash it without damaging it. Sound of the car skidding helps, the screen moves at the same time. I also downshift and upshift by the sounds.

I want to start karting this summer, either in rotax, 4 stroke...I don't even know anymore, all I have to do is sell my car...sounds easy enough.


and I willing bet that if that happens to you on a real track, what you think you should do goes out of the window.
and you don't need a lot of money to just turn up at a regular go-kart session. in the Uk, I can join in a day pay and race for less than £80

and in one of the videos you linked to, did you notice how the guy was steering with his fingertips?
yes, that's how realistic it is as a racing driving experience.

and in one of the videos you linked to, did you notice how the guy was steering with his fingertips?
yes, that's how realistic it is as a racing driving experience.


Gosh, try driving by your finger tips in a Kart while sliding around... man you're done for.

I tried drifting in the kart with one hand like you see the guys do in D1... nope... doesn't work. Plus the turns are so sharp and quick you really don't have time to do it one handed... but you really do need two hands to turn the wheel and keep control.

Not to mention, after 20 minutes of racing, you get fatigued and you're ready for a break. My forearms get tired, and my abs and sides get tired from leaning and bracing myself into the seat.

G-forces FTW!

ahhhh but he was a pro pracer see, he already has forearms of steel.
plus, he plays a lot of pc racing games; that's why he's so good at real racing.

oh, right, so when you're talking about them being comparable, you mean is the sense that a dog turd can be compared to an apple pie.
both have a slighty mushy and sticky consistancy and you can "eat" both of them.
therefore, dog turd is like apple pie?

to be fair, you never qualified yourself as to how comparable they are but you keep saying that you learn a lot about racing from your games. That infers that they are similar. Everyone is telling you they are not.



Pointing out the obvious to someone who doesn't want to accept it is not flaming.

and I willing bet that if that happens to you on a real track, what you think you should do goes out of the window.
and you don't need a lot of money to just turn up at a regular go-kart session. in the Uk, I can join in a day pay and race for less than £80

and in one of the videos you linked to, did you notice how the guy was steering with his fingertips?
yes, that's how realistic it is as a racing driving experience.

Yeah...his wheel wasn't that expensive...not bragging or anything but you can't do that with my wheel. Try and crash and burn. The force feedback is very configurable, which means you can set it from 0 to 100, actually even more settings then that. Saying that you are stating the obvious is your opinion.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/rofldunno.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

how about for some real racing news?

I've sent off for my MSA Go Racing pack so I can get to know the various bits of trackside rules+regulations and prepare for the basic exam.
I'll be buying my bits and pieces as I get the money until I have the essentials
(helmet, gloves, boots, racing suit) then it's off to silverstone (more likely brands hatch cos it's closer... and cheaper) then it'll be off to one race session every year (at least that's my plan) as a little treat.

Racing suit that I want to get is $1300 + $500 helmet + new gloves which are $100 at least + shoes which are $140.

That's just the external stuff, you still need the nomex underwear if you really want to be legit. That's another couple hundred dollars... racing isn't cheap.


.... then you need a car to race! :lol:

I know how much it all costs.....
it's a good thing that there's a non-race b license that I can get to enter the clubman and some of the regular B license events so that'll save me some money in terms of training sessions.
Not all require a car either; there are "some" turn up and race but that depends on the associated school you sign up to.

i'll know more about what else they require for each stage when i get the pack through the post.

As for now, I'll stick to my fairly inexpensive karting racing. I haven't been in ages though, I need to get back and shake off some cobwebs.

And now since I put new tires on the truck, and the wet season (which never came) has passed, I can't go out and slide around aimlessly... so my cheap entertainment is gone.

Believe it or not, I FULL WELL know when my simcar breaks traction and how to control it, or...crash it without damaging it. Sound of the car skidding helps, the screen moves at the same time. I also downshift and upshift by the sounds.

I used to play a damn near obscene amount of airsoft. I belonged to a team that reinacted the US Army Special Forces in the mid ninties. I had about $1000-$1500 worth of gear, and we practiced twice a week after school, and played in tournaments. We did all the drills that special forces types do, fire and fall back, ambushes, shit like that.

So using your logic...

I could go ahead and pick up a CIRAS vest, an M4, grab a flight out to Afghanistan, and play with the big boys because I can do it damn well with some plastic BBs every other saturday?

Pointing out the obvious to someone who doesn't want to accept it is not flaming.

Burn...


And reading all this cost comparisons of legit racing just further reinforces blasting through the back road twisties...Sure, I'm like, 200% less safe, but its cheap, and I tend to be like that. Damn college. Damn it to hell.

Better yet, hop in your buddies Ferrari and go for a jaunt through the back roads. His car, his gas... you just sit along for the ride. Plus you get lunch at Neptunes Net where they filmed the Ferrari race/beach scenes in "Fast and Furious".

Plus going 130mph+ with the top down, down the coast blasting past beach goers blaring the Ferrari "Fuck you horn". Classic.

My neighbor that had a Ferrari sold it...now he has Porsche. Kinda a step down, but he really likes turbos.

go-karting is the shit! i love it. i have a dirt road course in my backyard, its badass. one day i will take the layout and make a real course out of it. its quite fun when you get the fast corners just right with the oversteer. and you, racing with fingertips, not gonna happen. especially when you run over tree roots.... i made a drawing of it on paint, but its terrible. ill put it up here.

here it is, once i made this i realized that it really doesnt look right at all. its much more complex that this picture makes it look. like the stretch across the top isnt just a straight, because its on the side of a hill. everything above the red line is going up the side of a hill (its a levy, back the 1800's there was a canal there). all the green dots are trees, its pretty interesting. there is only really 1 straight part that is worth a damn and thats the left side.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/278655go_kart_track-med.JPG

Dyno, it takes a certain level of skill to do well in a game, but it's very different in real life. different skills are needed, reactions, reflexes etc..

it's not comparable on the driving level.

Dyno, it takes a certain level of skill to do well in a game, but it's very different in real life. different skills are needed, reactions, reflexes etc..

it's not comparable on the driving level.

Reactions and Reflexes are needed in computer racing, that's why I play with the lowest shader setting(DX7) to get 90 Frames per second.

SS you mention a certain level of skill, as I said before rFactor, GTR2, NR2003 are not for everyone. Since I started playing, which was since December, I've gone up levels and levels above what my friends can do, but when you get into the online leagues, almost everyone trounces me. So I feel so close to being fast (virtually) yet so far away, to which an epiphany came to me, there is no limit to how good you can get. None and the veteran players are a testament to that.

Probably the worst part about just computer gaming and trying to jump into the real thing would be...you don't even know how to turn the car on, but I'm going to learn that through other means. That's one of the reasons Kid B is screwed, but I still believe Simracing helps prepare you for the real deal.

go-karting is the shit! i love it. i have a dirt road course in my backyard, its badass. one day i will take the layout and make a real course out of it. its quite fun when you get the fast corners just right with the oversteer. and you, racing with fingertips, not gonna happen. especially when you run over tree roots.... i made a drawing of it on paint, but its terrible. ill put it up here.

here it is, once i made this i realized that it really doesnt look right at all. its much more complex that this picture makes it look. like the stretch across the top isnt just a straight, because its on the side of a hill. everything above the red line is going up the side of a hill (its a levy, back the 1800's there was a canal there). all the green dots are trees, its pretty interesting. there is only really 1 straight part that is worth a damn and thats the left side.



That is badass, just...badass. I wanna race it...I wanna race everything. I wanna race those treeroots lol.

...might as well, I raced this tonight:

http://www.barbermotorsports.com/
In these, virtually:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUw2VA3zDZM

I qualified 13th, my highest ever, out of 18 guys. 28 lap race, I got up to 7th place, but got in accidents. I didn't want a DNF so I finished above the DNFs in 15th.
I blame my lack of preparation but I qualified my best and had a lot of fun in the early stages.

i've driven enough hours of GT4 that i had to see a doctor about my square eyes. and yes, there is a lot of realism there.

i have friends who work in tuning cars and building cars for racing, and i've driven quite a few.

i can promise you that being good at games doesn't translate into good track skills. i say that in total honesty. in GT4 i drove a 913bhp R34 like it was powered by crack. i drove a 750bhp R34 on private raods (admittedly, i didn't drive quite like i would in the game) and it was totally different, you feel every bump, feel the limits of grip, steering feedback etc.. it's TOTALLY different to driving in a game.

you can protest all you want, but i can promise you that if you drive a race car to the same spec as one on a game, on the same track you won't get results anything like what you get in the game. i guarantee it.

the only thing i learned in a game that was (roughly) translated for use in real driving was steering into a skid. and believe me, when you skid it's incredibly hard to get the car back on course. my mate tried everything he could to teach me how to enter a corner sideways, and hold it all the way through. i either had the tail back in halfway through the turn, or i spun.

you can't take gaming skills, jump into a real car and use those skills for "hard" driving, it doesn't work. i've tried it. my friend is a freakin demon on the track, he learns a new car quickly and drives it like it's on rails, but when it comes to gaming he's always tailing behind. the skill thing goes both ways, pro race drivers are always that good on games.

you can be at the top opf every online racing game league, it doesn't make you a race driver.

you want the truth? (brace yourself)







stop kidding yourself. if you honestly believe you're "destined" to race then go do an advance driving course, go to Skip Barber's school and learn. telling a bunch of people that you run rings around other games won't get you into racing. you need to take some initiative and accept that your gaming skill IS NOT on par with racing skill. it's totally different, you can't relate game driving to race driving. god knows i've tried, and it got me nowhere. in fact, best thing i did when my mate was teaching me was i forgot about the games, felt the real boundaries and listened to someone who knows what they're talking about.

you want to race? get off you ass, go to a driving school and LISTEN to the instructor. if he says do 30 through a corner, do 30. not 35, not 40, not even 31. you DON'T know your limits, and just because you can do 75 through a turn in a game doesn't mean you can in real life.

i'm sorry, the truth hurts. one day you'll realise that games and reality are a world apart.

none of us are trying to piss on your parade, you jsut need to accept that being good on a game doesn't make you good on a track.

you can argue until hell freezes over, but it won't do YOU any good.

I know SS, I know. But a day doesn't go by when I'm told I need to get racing to learn...30 times a day, leading up to the day I finally hop onto a race track, and it's making me sick. So...do you all want me to shut up about my games? Is that what you want? *scratches head*

EDIT- to me it's harder than you think to jump onto a race track, so, I guess sim racing is the convenient thing, very convenient, and it fills my need for speed, but so many people get on my ass about it...........my family, my friends, you people

I know SS, I know. But a day doesn't go by when I'm told I need to get racing to learn...30 times a day, leading up to the day I finally hop onto a race track, and it's making me sick. So...do you all want me to shut up about my games? Is that what you want? *scratches head*

EDIT- to me it's harder than you think to jump onto a race track, so, I guess sim racing is the convenient thing, very convenient, and it fills my need for speed, but so many people get on my ass about it...........my family, my friends, you people

I have no problem with that. And neither do others... Or at least I don't think they do.
It's just the fact that you relate video game racing to real life racing a little too much, that everyone is getting annoyed about.

...I have no problem with it. Believe what you want, since it doesn't effect me in any way, I can care less really...

:dunno:

actually, i can say this suprisingly enough, playing racing games has helped me in my driving kinda sorta.

in the rain, i know to use less throttle, and use the transmission with downshifting, instead of slamming on the brakes to slow down. giving part throttle throughout the turn will lean into less traction lost in my turn. maybe im just nuts? :dunno:

ive learned to turn outwards, and then into the turn to shift weight balance. this also decreases body roll for me. also this causes understeer for me when done at a speed too high. i know im crazy when i get into these Gran Turismo moods, but its usually done on empty roads, that have no curbs to hit, and open grass to run off onto if i do lose control of the car.

mind you im not claming myself as a F1 driver or anything, but in a sense they have helped me. feathering the throttle in the rain and snow, and such. it would be nice that i could get all the racing gear(suit, helmet, underware[stig was saying something about authentic racing underware], etc) and go out and race the sentra on a road race circuit or something of that sort. local scca is there, but its not quite the same, as actually being on a real track, that isnt made with cones.

but i think for christs sake, maybe the post of the NSX with jeremy clarkson, will give an idea of how video games and reality differs a bit. i know that gran turismo is realistic to a point, but it can get interesting if you turn all the driving aids off (sts, tcs, abs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L20IPTT_Wg4

Reactions and Reflexes are needed in computer racing, that's why I play with the lowest shader setting(DX7) to get 90 Frames per second.
I wish I could turn down the frame rate in real life. It would make those few times I get to see nice boobies even longer.

I know SS, I know. But a day doesn't go by when I'm told I need to get racing to learn...30 times a day, leading up to the day I finally hop onto a race track, and it's making me sick. So...do you all want me to shut up about my games? Is that what you want? *scratches head*

EDIT- to me it's harder than you think to jump onto a race track, so, I guess sim racing is the convenient thing, very convenient, and it fills my need for speed, but so many people get on my ass about it...........my family, my friends, you people

people get on you about it because you're so adamant about how it's so similar to real life. the simple truth is that it's not. it's convient, it's fun, it satisfies needs. yes, it does. but what it doesn't do is provide the skill to race.

none of us have anything against you for liking these games, playing them a lost, tweaking all the settings, but you're kidding yourself by thinking that it's going to make you a wonderful driver.

it's the same as people cheating in tests/exams. you cheat, you do well and you're pleased. but when it comes the time to put whatever knowledge into practice (and that's something you've cheated on) you can't do it. in life there are no crib sheets, no writing answers on your arm. people can either do something or they can't, there's no grey area.

i'm not at all doubting that maybe (and that's a big maybe) you have some natural talent for driving. but i can promise you that gaming skill does not in any way equate to driving skill. i'm sorry to burst your bubble, but it is the honest truth.

no-one's angry with you for wanting to race, no-one has anything against that. but we do want you to realise that there is an enormous different between games and real life.

by telling you to get out there, do a course and learn none of us (or your family) are doing it to piss you off, get on your nerves etc. look past the nagging and see that they just want you to learn properly. if you want that to stop, then you have to take it into your own hands. looking at the college i want to go to, friend nagged me daily, asking when i was going to get the info, find out what i need. and once i got that, found out what i needed to know, it stopped. believe it or not, we're encouraging you to learn.

Dan, you're a nice guy. and i know that no-one would doubt that, and i've yet to hear a bad word about you. but you're kidding yourself thinking that the skills equate. we're not trying to crush your dreams, piss on your parade or get you down by saying that. we just want you to know.

we're not telling you to shut up about the gaming, we're not saying you should stop playing the games. if you enjoy it, then by all means do it. if people tell you it's stupid, ignore them. but please, please, please listen to us.

there is nothing wrong with doing something you enjoy, nothing at all. you're not stupid for liking racing games, you're not stupid for palying them a lot. you're not stupid because you think the skills equate, you just haven't seen it first-hand yet.

actually, i can say this suprisingly enough, playing racing games has helped me in my driving kinda sorta.

in the rain, i know to use less throttle, and use the transmission with downshifting, instead of slamming on the brakes to slow down. giving part throttle throughout the turn will lean into less traction lost in my turn. maybe im just nuts? :dunno:

I was taught that stuff in drivers ed?

but it can get interesting if you turn all the driving aids off (sts, tcs, abs)


christ... you arent kidding. especially if you happen to be driving something like a 1000+hp Nissan R89 Le Mans car. i think the only way you could do it is if you had a REALLY good set of actual peddles and steering wheel.

but it can get interesting if you turn all the driving aids off (sts, tcs, abs)

when it snowed here i took the Golf out and drove down my road with the ESP off, it was a little scary. i'd floor the loud pedal, there was a lot of wheel spin and then it would catch grip and shoot forward with no steering until you hit the brakes. (in a straight line) sometimes it would catch grip, shudder and veer off to one side until you gave it half lock or something.

after 15 minutes i decided it was best not to wreck the Golf, and went home.

(truth be told, it was too scary driving like that.)

^I've done that with my BMW when it gets snowy and icey.

when it snowed here i took the Golf out and drove down my road with the ESP off, it was a little scary. i'd floor the loud pedal, there was a lot of wheel spin and then it would catch grip and shoot forward with no steering until you hit the brakes. (in a straight line) sometimes it would catch grip, shudder and veer off to one side until you gave it half lock or something.

after 15 minutes i decided it was best not to wreck the Golf, and went home.

(truth be told, it was too scary driving like that.)

he was talking about gran turismo 4. but yeah driving in the snow is fun. especially in the mustang. ive done it so much now that i enjoy it.

cassies, i was fortunate enough to jsut sleep through drivers ed. it was a waste imo. i mean i know the signs, i know the rules. not a big deal. i learned how to drive through experience, not by a book. i was taken into the local cemetary since i was 6 until i got my permit. its a easy way to learn to drive, at low speeds. hell, im still learning the limits of my sentra today. everything must be smooth when turning, or i'll get understeer, loss of traction, or both.

and stang, it gets really and i mean really interesting, just with a stock car, trying to post a quick lap with no assists. i mean like a stock mustang or something with torque. sure its hella slow, but its hard as hell to manage the brake with your left pointer finger on a trigger. its kinda hard to pump the brake with the finger as well, to emulate pumping the brake pedal with your foot. i can play decent with all the assists off, but im like x2 better with 'abs' on.

Nice...no...I got called Nice again, Why am I SO DAMN NICE ALL THE TIME???

Driving the R92CP with no aids (except clutch) in GT4 is a lot of fun, it's just so damn fast and everything moves by you (about to make a comparison here) just like an F1 car(BMW Sauber) in rFactor. The fastest I could drive one of those amazing machines was at Montreal Grand Prix, by myself, just practicing. It was INCREDIBLE how fast I went down the last straight onto the chicane onto the finish line. Seven gears are great.

cassies, i was fortunate enough to jsut sleep through drivers ed. it was a waste imo. i mean i know the signs, i know the rules. not a big deal. i learned how to drive through experience, not by a book. i was taken into the local cemetary since i was 6 until i got my permit. its a easy way to learn to drive, at low speeds. hell, im still learning the limits of my sentra today. everything must be smooth when turning, or i'll get understeer, loss of traction, or both.

and stang, it gets really and i mean really interesting, just with a stock car, trying to post a quick lap with no assists. i mean like a stock mustang or something with torque. sure its hella slow, but its hard as hell to manage the brake with your left pointer finger on a trigger. its kinda hard to pump the brake with the finger as well, to emulate pumping the brake pedal with your foot. i can play decent with all the assists off, but im like x2 better with 'abs' on.

dude...I learned in a parking lot.......

well, learn how you learn. it was just that if i crashed into something, as bad as it sounds, it would already be dead.

well, learn how you learn. it was just that if i crashed into something, as bad as it sounds, it would already be dead.

There, that's quote worthy

It was an abandoned lot, If I crashed into something, it would be bankrupt.

and stang, it gets really and i mean really interesting, just with a stock car, trying to post a quick lap with no assists. i mean like a stock mustang or something with torque. sure its hella slow, but its hard as hell to manage the brake with your left pointer finger on a trigger. its kinda hard to pump the brake with the finger as well, to emulate pumping the brake pedal with your foot. i can play decent with all the assists off, but im like x2 better with 'abs' on.

On Forza, the only aid I keep on is the ABS. Everything else goes off.

On Forza, the only aid I keep on is the ABS. Everything else goes off.

I apologize for making fun of Forza. Truth be told I haven't played it yet.

dude...I learned in a parking lot.......

my dad taught me to drive.

he went "want to drive?" on the way home on day, on my road. got behind the wheel, drove.

well by "learning how to drive," are we talking real cars or anything? cause ive been driving go-karts around my backyard and whatnot since i was a little kid. the only reason i never got into actual racing was because my parents went through a long divorce and things just got side tracked. but i didnt really drive a real car until i was 13 or 14.

well by "learning how to drive," are we talking real cars or anything? cause ive been driving go-karts around my backyard and whatnot since i was a little kid. the only reason i never got into actual racing was because my parents went through a long divorce and things just got side tracked. but i didnt really drive a real car until i was 13 or 14.

We were talking about getting our driver's permit/license but telling go kart stories is more than fine by me Stang.

well by "learning how to drive," are we talking real cars or anything? cause ive been driving go-karts around my backyard and whatnot since i was a little kid. the only reason i never got into actual racing was because my parents went through a long divorce and things just got side tracked. but i didnt really drive a real car until i was 13 or 14.

i'm talking real cars. Dad's Golf V5. i was 13 or 14 i think.

i'm talking real cars. Dad's Golf V5. i was 13 or 14 i think.

I think we were all 13 or 14. It's just that age where we're allowed to do more motor type stuff.

maybe the post of the NSX with jeremy clarkson, will give an idea of how video games and reality differs a bit. i know that gran turismo is realistic to a point, but it can get interesting if you turn all the driving aids off (sts, tcs, abs)

someone else did something similar.
they took a racing sim champion and stuck him in a Clio V6 and gave it to a btcc driver to race around a track.
the racing sim champ was sick before corner number 4.
when it was his turn to drive, he was, well, shit.

well i was wrong about this thread... i thought it wouldnt last long.

Gee, this thread is still going strong huh... Hehe, well not to get off topic
I first "drove" a car when I was around 11 years old.
My father did the pedals, and switched gears, I just tried to keep the car on the road. :grinno:
The first time I drove a car myself, with my father sitting in the passanger seat was when I was about 13 (I had to sit on a little pillow to get me just up enough to see the road clearly.
It was a menual, and that's what I learned on.

Well there goes a story of my life... Haha
:banghead:

I learned by driving an 850hp sprint car... true story.







ok not really, but i wish