96 Bravada injection problems, NEED HELP

Hi there, the car is 92[not 96 sorry] with the 4.3 vortec has 172k miles on it. Since the day I bought -2k miles ago approximately- it would take a while to start. If you turn the car off and than start it again when its warm it would just fire it up!

it died on my gf, had to get it towed to my place -alot of money :disappoin - She said it suddenly stopped running. Changed the spark plugs, it started went 100ft then died on me again like it did on her. Then changed the electronic starter module or something like that which is attached to distrubutor -I had to remove the intake manifold for that- and it started running again. Then I added fuel booster, some fuel injection cleaner and stuff. Today while i was driving, gas was just coming on and off like it was hesitating. and then small explosion sounds coming from the engine not the exhaust. Its like something stuck in engine, can't breathe... So i let it idle in front of the house almost about 2 hours, finally it choked and died... I donno how to restart it but I am guessing its the stuff I added to the tank caused it, and it never blew out a black smoke.

Thanks in Advance

Hi there, the car is 96 with the 4.3 vortec has 172k miles on it. Since the day I bought -2k miles ago approximately- it would take a while to start. If you turn the car off and than start it again when its warm it would just fire it up!

it died on my gf, had to get it towed to my place -alot of money :disappoin - She said it suddenly stopped running. Changed the spark plugs, it started went 100ft then died on me again like it did on her. Then changed the electronic starter module or something like that which is attached to distrubutor -I had to remove the intake manifold for that- and it started running again. Then I added fuel booster, some fuel injection cleaner and stuff. Today while i was driving, gas was just coming on and off like it was hesitating. and then small explosion sounds coming from the engine not the exhaust. Its like something stuck in engine, can't breathe... So i let it idle in front of the house almost about 2 hours, finally it choked and died... I donno how to restart it but I am guessing its the stuff I added to the tank caused it, and it never blew out a black smoke.

Thanks in Advance
First check for good hot spark to all plugs then.
A fuel pressure check would be in order and watch gauge for a fast leak down.
Here is fuel pressure check guide lines
do as much as you can and post back result.

Hard to start cold.
Check cold start fuel pressure.
Check engine running fuel pressure.
Check engine running on the road fuel pressure.
Then shut it off and watch for fast leak down.
Pinch off at rubber part or block off return line and check full pressure.
Later V6 and V8 gm engines should have 60-66 fuel pressure.
Cold start should be 64-65 lbs of pressure.
If you do not have full fuel pressure on a cold start the injectors will not squirt fuel.
Do not leave home without it.
Engine running should be 60-66 lbs pressure depending on engine load.
Full pressure with return pinched off should be 75-85 or more.
And if it has a fast leak down after shut off you have a leak.
Post back fuel pressure readings.

small explosion sounds coming from the engine not the exhaust. Its like something stuck in engine, can't breathe...

I meant backfiring, but in that plastic air tube which goes to throttle body. So yeah I saw that plastic tube jumping!! and also smells funny, like somethings burning

Thank you for your repost! I will go on and try to read fuel pressures, but the car wouldn't start again after it died last night. What can I do to restart again? Last time i changed the spark plugs and/or changed the controller module it started, but it would start the same way it did before: hold my hand in the ignition for about 6 sec. and then fire it up

also O2 sensors has been changed when I bought them, so thats out of possibilities also

Change the distributor cap. My blazer shut down on me and when trying to start it, the engine would backfire and sometimes compression lock. After replacing the timing chain and not fixing it, I figured out that the distributor cap was shorting the center post (coil wire) and #4 plug since the two run so close together. Yours sounds as though it has more of an intermittant short.

Change the distributor cap. My blazer shut down on me and when trying to start it, the engine would backfire and sometimes compression lock. After replacing the timing chain and not fixing it, I figured out that the distributor cap was shorting the center post (coil wire) and #4 plug since the two run so close together. Yours sounds as though it has more of an intermittant short.

Oh thank you for the heads up, thats a good guess

ok so i went to schucks and bought this tool for 60$ :uhoh: But at least its a tool that I can use all the time... Never used this again so it took me a while to figure out where to snap it in, finally did figure out and here are the numbers

these are while the car is running

0*F 52psi
110*F 53psi
150*F 54-55psi
190*F 54-55psi

------------------------------

and these are the values first i started the car then turned it off and after that when i switched the car to the ON position

190*F 61psi
120*F 61psi
0*F 60psi

like i said this was my first time, so probly this is not even the right way to read these values :disappoin So i will wait till u guys hit me up with some more knowledge

BTW car started itself 2 days later when I tried, like usual it cranked for about 6 seconds then started. I am assuming the material i added causing all these extra problems but somehow connected to each other, lately I put 1 bottle STP fuel injection cleaner and another bottle of oil cleaner, a bottle of lucas injection and system cleaner (which is 3 times bigger than the other bottles), a bottle of fuel booster, and a bottle of heet and then I filled up the tank. The next day car started doing this, acting like not getting gas, its choked or something u know. [PS car was fine except for the late cold start till I added lucas]

Now when I give a little gas car starts vibrating, this really started worrying me! and before I was able to start the car this morning, there was water on the engine, its like it sweated thats why i added some heet this morning :( I know I am a dumbass LOL. So I might just empty the gas tank

If the gauge is right your fuel pressure is to low.
You need 65 lbs. of fuel pressure to start the engine cold.
Leave the gauge on there and see what the running pressure is.
As outlined in the fuel pressure check I posted.
Check that fuel filter and if you can check the direct fuel pressure at the line going into the fuel filter.
A good fuel pump will have 75-85 lbs or more of direct fuel pressure there.

If the gauge is right your fuel pressure is to low.
You need 65 lbs. of fuel pressure to start the engine cold.
Leave the gauge on there and see what the running pressure is.
As outlined in the fuel pressure check I posted.
Check that fuel filter and if you can check the direct fuel pressure at the line going into the fuel filter.
A good fuel pump will have 75-85 lbs or more of direct fuel pressure there.

yeah I left it on and its 54-55psi while its idling at 190*F. I will find the fuel filter now [if I can :)] and check it out if the filter is bad by looking at the fuel pumps pressure. Fuel pump is attached to tank right?
when the car is OFF but the pump is ON it read 61psi

Btw what do you think about the additional material i added? Should I flush it all out?

Fuel pump is inside the tank.
I never had any faith with the cleaner stuff.
More or less a band aid.
You need more fuel pressure 62-64 running and 65 -66 lbs on start or engine off.

ok so here are the things I did
I changed the Fuel Filter
Found out the car was 92 not 96 LMFAO

saw this gap by the IAC valve (im not sure if its what it is, which is on the side of TB)
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/75/image00001jm4.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image00001jm4.jpg)
I have been following the sticky thread on How to section: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=620747
I cleaned some stuff with break cleaner didn't help much

I can't get car to start, now i am replacing the rotor and the cap on the distrubitor and I think I am about to buy a whole new distrubitor! if not that probably will replace the plug wires also... Still not, i think I will find a hammer :)

I am convinced that I added way too many injection cleaner and other shit to the tank, thats why it was hesitating like that. I gotto get it running to flush the gas out and fill it up with normal gas tho :( So I am where I was started, sparking issue, electrical issue, whatever u name it.

I will also try to clean up the injectors with some gas and perhaps the regulator
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5349/image00002cg5.th.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image00002cg5.jpg)
PS that new rotor i bought is wrong bc cap wouldn't fit in, its bigger than the original one :(

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4625/c7327b377aa44c2990dde5ayi1.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c7327b377aa44c2990dde5ayi1.jpg)

What is that piece called and what does it do, anyone know?

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4625/c7327b377aa44c2990dde5ayi1.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c7327b377aa44c2990dde5ayi1.jpg)

What is that piece called and what does it do, anyone know?


Thanks for letting us know how it went.
We are glad it is doing better.
That big black plastic/fiberglass is your Air condition evaporator core housing.
After you got everything back together did you set the base time on the ign. system?
If not the base time should be checked or set.
Good Luck
MT

After you got everything back together did you set the base time on the ign. system?
If not the base time should be checked or set.
Good Luck
MT

Oh no, i didn't do that and probably thats why it is acting weird, is there a link telling how to set it so I can read the steps?

Im too careless God Damn it! I didn't pay attention to anything! i don't know the original distrubitors position and I donno how to set the timing because I threw all the manual to the trash :(

You might look around in the how to section on dist replace or intake replace how to or just set timing.
But the basic procedure is to find the dist bypass mode wire a single brown and black wire and unplug it and set bas timing and then hook it back up after engine off.
Some times behind glove box or under heater housing on near the fuel pump relay or dist.
What engine and engine code and what year for sure is it?

You might look around in the how to section on dist replace or intake replace how to or just set timing.
But the basic procedure is to find the dist bypass mode wire a single brown and black wire and unplug it and set bas timing and then hook it back up after engine off.
Some times behind glove box or under heater housing on near the fuel pump relay or dist.
What engine and engine code and what year for sure is it?

its a 92 bravada 4.3, i think its called 4.3 CPI because that looks like my engine :)

Do I need to find TDC (Top Dead Center) and put the dist. in after that? God damn, I couldn't find any information in How-to section and it wouldn't lemme post in there cos im a newbie in this site...

I guess I will go to schucks and ask for another manual or something

Do I need to find TDC (Top Dead Center) and put the dist. in after that? God damn, I couldn't find any information in How-to section and it wouldn't lemme post in there cos im a newbie in this site...

I guess I will go to schucks and ask for another manual or something


I got to far ahead on the base timing thing.
You do that after you get it started and running.

To set the dist you have to find no 1 cylinder TDC.
But also you have to find the compression stroke.
TDC compression.
To find the compression stroke feel remove no 1 spark plug and feel for compression. When compression starts on it roll it on up to TDC.
You can hold a finger over but not in the plug hole to feel for compression or use a compression gauge.
When you find TDC compression stroke set the dist in and point the rotor to no 1 cylinder plug wire on cap.
It might help to dig that repair manual out of the trash or get a new one.
Good Luck
MT

I got to far ahead on the base timing thing.
You do that after you get it started and running.

To set the dist you have to find no 1 cylinder TDC.
But also you have to find the compression stroke.
TDC compression.
To find the compression stroke feel remove no 1 spark plug and feel for compression. When compression starts on it roll it on up to TDC.
You can hold a finger over but not in the plug hole to feel for compression or use a compression gauge.
When you find TDC compression stroke set the dist in and point the rotor to no 1 cylinder plug wire on cap.
It might help to dig that repair manual out of the trash or get a new one.
Good Luck
MT

Thank you very much for all the help, I really appreciate it!!! I also have a 99 camaro z28 and go to ls1tech.com whenever i need something, since LS1 is a newer engine and more common there are a lot of pictures and discussions about each part :) That's why i never got that manual habit, RTFM [read the f***ing manual] right :)

I forgot the new distributors manual at schucks the other night and they threw it away already when I looked for it today :(

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7770/s1xa43f6zk2.th.gif (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s1xa43f6zk2.gif)

it seems like this is my cylinder order, will just stick a push rod inside number1 :evillol: and will see. Thanks again for all your help! After I place the dist. in correctly I will come back and read what u wrote about setting the timing

if you did not pull the distributor there is really no need to check base time unless you think it is off. what all have you done and did you ever get it to run well?

if you did not pull the distributor there is really no need to check base time unless you think it is off. what all have you done and did you ever get it to run well?

I pulled the distributor clueless, went to schucks and replaced it. They gave me 50 off for the old one and they said they needed the new box too :) So I left the box with the manual in it... I came back just sticked it in and tried to start the car. Thats the kinda TARD i am :)

See now I can't reach to the crank bolt to find the TDC so I will use the starter, brilliant eh ;) I hope the rod wouldn't break in :)

I am about to hammer the shit out of this car anyways, bought it for 1500$ and really annoyed because I have to work on a POS

Thank you very much for all the help, I really appreciate it!!! I also have a 99 camaro z28 and go to ls1tech.com whenever i need something, since LS1 is a newer engine and more common there are a lot of pictures and discussions about each part :) That's why i never got that manual habit, RTFM [read the f***ing manual] right :)

I forgot the new distributors manual at schucks the other night and they threw it away already when I looked for it today :(

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7770/s1xa43f6zk2.th.gif (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s1xa43f6zk2.gif)

it seems like this is my cylinder order, will just stick a push rod inside number1 :evillol: and will see. Thanks again for all your help! After I place the dist. in correctly I will come back and read what u wrote about setting the timing


Do not stick anything inside the cylinder.
Use the timing mark pointer on timing cover and crank pulley to find TDC.
Also there is a exhaust and a compression stroke.
You need it on TDC compression stroke.
Hold finger over the outside of plug hole or use a compression gauge to find compression stroke.

After you find TDC and set the dist to no.1, I'd get as much fuel out of the tank as you can and refill it because of all the stuff you put in it in post #6. I'd also remove and clean the plugs as well as the injectors because you probably did add too much stuff at one time and fouled the plugs. The part circled in post #11 is not the A/C core housing. The end of the arrow is on the housing but I think the circle is around the coil. If you are unable to determine whether or not you are on the compression stroke and you have the timing marks lined up, you have a 50/50 chance of being right. Worse case, you're 180 degrees out and it wont run.

After you find TDC and set the dist to no.1, I'd get as much fuel out of the tank as you can and refill it because of all the stuff you put in it in post #6. I'd also remove and clean the plugs as well as the injectors because you probably did add too much stuff at one time and fouled the plugs. The part circled in post #11 is not the A/C core housing. The end of the arrow is on the housing but I think the circle is around the coil. If you are unable to determine whether or not you are on the compression stroke and you have the timing marks lined up, you have a 50/50 chance of being right. Worse case, you're 180 degrees out and it wont run.

I was pplanning to take fuel out once i start the car from fuel pressure line with a fuel pressure gauge, i got 3/4 of gas in the tank still if i can take out 1/4 or 2/5 i can go to gas station -less than half miles away- and fill it up again and decrease the percentage of the stuff in my tank i guess

I can't reach to the crank bolt, the propeller -literally it looks like one :)- and i am not sure if i can/should remove it. I was gonna try to find TDC with starter, oh I f...ed up big time really :)

Thank you for your replis guys, ill get back at you with the results

Get someone to help bump starter a bump at a time.
With the spark plug out.
Hold your finger over no 1 spark plug hole.
When you feel compression you are close to TDC compression.
Bump starter a hair more untill the timing mark is TDC.
The set dist with rotor pointing to no 1 spark wire on cap.

The set dist with rotor pointing to no 1 spark wire on cap.

This is a great information, thanks a lot! Will get to work immideately

So i think i got it right but the battery died, also i broke the rotors metal thing by accident and used the old one. So it cranked cranked but didn't start. It was a steady crank unlike the way it was before. Tomorrow I will buy another rotor and try it again. If not i guess i will take out the dist. and put it 180* reverse, or should i change the spark plug wires instead to try first?

Work on getting the dist set right first.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.

after i try to start the car, cranking the car, when i let my hand go off the ignition i can still hear the pistons a couple of times goin up and down...I set it up just like u guys told me; TDC on no.1, rotor facing no.1... Everything seems to be just perfect, but somethings off! now I clamped the fuel pressure and everytime I try to start the car pump starts for couple of seconds and I take gas out of the tank that way. It is hella slow and annoying, I guess i will just go ahead and give 12V to pump to take all the gas out

It will just start without any problems when I place the distributor correctly? or should I expect things like this... God damn it, sorry guys im so noob! Is there anyone around seattle? I could use some help and actually pay really

I take it you have never siphoned. It's always easier with a clear hose, but if you've never done it, you should ask someone who has to help. That will empty the tank much faster. The "propeller" is the fan. For access to turn the crank, go from under the front with a 1/2" drive ratchet and a short extension. I forget which socket you need but that's easy enough for you to figure out. Turn the crank clockwise only. If the battery is dead, you'll need to charge it or get a jump. If the distributor is one tooth off it will try to start or run very rough or spit / backfire while running or trying to start. At least then you'll know your close and you can advance it or retard it one tooth at a time.

after i try to start the car, cranking the car, when i let my hand go off the ignition i can still hear the pistons a couple of times goin up and down...I set it up just like u guys told me; TDC on no.1, rotor facing no.1... Everything seems to be just perfect, but somethings off! now I clamped the fuel pressure and everytime I try to start the car pump starts for couple of seconds and I take gas out of the tank that way. It is hella slow and annoying, I guess i will just go ahead and give 12V to pump to take all the gas out

It will just start without any problems when I place the distributor correctly? or should I expect things like this... God damn it, sorry guys im so noob! Is there anyone around seattle? I could use some help and actually pay really

Did you find TDC compression or TDC exhaust.
You have to hold your finger over no 1 plug hole to find TDC compression.
You have to find TDC on the compression stroke to get it to run.

It will take a week to pump the fuel out cranking the engine.
Jumper the fuel pump or drain or siphon tank out to get all gas out of it.

Did you find TDC compression or TDC exhaust.
You have to hold your finger over no 1 plug hole to find TDC compression.
You have to find TDC on the compression stroke to get it to run.

It will take a week to pump the fuel out cranking the engine.
Jumper the fuel pump or drain or siphon tank out to get all gas out of it.

Ok so, I got sick pretty bad for about 10 days and then finals hit me... Just got back to it this week. I hired a guy to fix it. So this guy comes and sets the timing for me correctly. But the car still wouldn't start. He sees the fuel on spark plugs and he guesses its the spider injection system. Good part is he has a 92 Jimmy :) and we just swapped the injectors.

His injectors didn't change anything in my car (still the same) and when we tried my injectors in his car it would start without a problem.

Neither he or I can guess what else could be the problem, except for the 3/4 full tank with bunch of cleaners inside but he claims that it shouldn't make a difference and still be able to run

Ok so, I got sick pretty bad for about 10 days and then finals hit me... Just got back to it this week. I hired a guy to fix it. So this guy comes and sets the timing for me correctly. But the car still wouldn't start. He sees the fuel on spark plugs and he guesses its the spider injection system. Good part is he has a 92 Jimmy :) and we just swapped the injectors.

His injectors didn't change anything in my car (still the same) and when we tried my injectors in his car it would start without a problem.

Neither he or I can guess what else could be the problem, except for the 3/4 full tank with bunch of cleaners inside but he claims that it shouldn't make a difference and still be able to run


Go back to square one.
Is the timing set right?
Firing on no 0ne at tdc compression?
Have you got good hot blue spark to all plugs?
If the plugs are fowled out or flooded out wet on the end pitch them in the trash can and blow out the cylinders and install new plugs.

MT is right. You need to go back to square one. First, fire the guy you hired. If he saw fuel on the plugs and thought your spider was bad and took all the time to swap spider injectors BEFORE checking for spark, then he is not much of a mechanic and should be paying you to get the experience. Going over this thread, you've changed plugs, distributor, fuel filter and had good pressure from the fuel pump. Honestly, your fuel pressures were better than the ones on my '96 Blazer, and it ran. Get a timing light. Clamp the inductance pickup around the number 1 plug wire and have someone crank the truck while you aim the light at the timing marks. If you can't see the timing marks well, brighten them up with white-out. While firing, if you see the timing marks together, your timing should be set correctly since the rotor button was at 1 while TDC marks lined up. If the timing light doesn't fire at all, you should replace the coil. Also, I don't know about the '92, but the '96 has two marks on the harmonic balancer. The first mark to line up when going clockwise was the mark to use. Make sure you are not lining up the second mark. We'll do this step by step instead of too much information at a time.
Good luck, and post your results. I'd swing by Seattle to give you a hand but it's a little out of my way since I live on the east coast.

MT is right. You need to go back to square one. First, fire the guy you hired. If he saw fuel on the plugs and thought your spider was bad and took all the time to swap spider injectors BEFORE checking for spark, then he is not much of a mechanic and should be paying you to get the experience. Going over this thread, you've changed plugs, distributor, fuel filter and had good pressure from the fuel pump. Honestly, your fuel pressures were better than the ones on my '96 Blazer, and it ran. Get a timing light. Clamp the inductance pickup around the number 1 plug wire and have someone crank the truck while you aim the light at the timing marks. If you can't see the timing marks well, brighten them up with white-out. While firing, if you see the timing marks together, your timing should be set correctly since the rotor button was at 1 while TDC marks lined up. If the timing light doesn't fire at all, you should replace the coil. Also, I don't know about the '92, but the '96 has two marks on the harmonic balancer. The first mark to line up when going clockwise was the mark to use. Make sure you are not lining up the second mark. We'll do this step by step instead of too much information at a time.
Good luck, and post your results. I'd swing by Seattle to give you a hand but it's a little out of my way since I live on the east coast.

Wow amazing reply! First thank you! :)

I couldn't siphon any gas out of tank and I decided to just pull it out. Tank had 3/4 of gasoline, so I give away the gas to friends gallon by gallon (They are really happy :)) Today, I put all back together (which was a big pain in the butt) and now changing wheels,brakes, panhard bar on my Camaro because I've got a track day tomorrow and because Bravada started running just fine. I used the timing light like you said (a friend let me borrow it). I might need to make a little adjustment later but for now its all good.

Thank you all for helping me out for 3 pages long!!:licka: and i guess the distributor was the problem.

Good Day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1h1zp9m0zE

The timing I thought was fine but as u can see from the video the line isn't staying at the same spot :( After reading the manual it seems like the middle one out of 3 pointers shows the TDC instead of the one in the end to the right, which is called After TDC (ATDC). I believe the guy I hired set the TDC at the ATDC thinking it is the TDC and that's why I guess the line isn't at the same place all the time and the car still starts after cranking for 4-6 seconds when its called.

So when I hold the light the line needs to be in the middle pointer constantly I believe?

To set the base timing you first need to disconnect the ESR bypass single tan/black wire with a black plastic connector.
Sometimes it is near the lower part of in cab heater housing or right under carpet there and sometimes near dist.
With the base timing EST wire disconnected start engine and let it idle.
The set base time by turning dist housing to 0 degrees TDC. at the timing pointer.
After it is set turn on engine and hook EST wire back up and you are set to go.
If the check engine light comes on you will need to disconnect neg. battery to clear the code.

After wire is connected back up and code is cleared and start engine and watch timing marks for good advance on timing when engine rpm are raised up.
You should see from 25-50 degrees of timing advance then.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
MT

To set the base timing you first need to disconnect the ESR bypass single tan/black wire with a black plastic connector.
Sometimes it is near the lower part of in cab heater housing or right under carpet there and sometimes near dist.
With the base timing EST wire disconnected start engine and let it idle.
The set base time by turning dist housing to 0 degrees TDC. at the timing pointer.
After it is set turn on engine and hook EST wire back up and you are set to go.
If the check engine light comes on you will need to disconnect neg. battery to clear the code.

After wire is connected back up and code is cleared and start engine and watch timing marks for good advance on timing when engine rpm are raised up.
You should see from 25-50 degrees of timing advance then.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
MT

I don't know if that video i posted help you see if the timing is right or not, but my friend came the other day and said it looks fine and he added, there are no backfirings in the intake. Oh the reason why he came to help was because car stopped running again.

So his assumption is the additives i added fucked up the spark plugs and he wants me to renew them, and the spark plug wires just to be safe.

Neither he or I can understand why spark plugs would be fuely. I am in need of money so I need to sell the truck as soon as I can

I don't know if that video i posted help you see if the timing is right or not, but my friend came the other day and said it looks fine and he added, there are no backfirings in the intake. Oh the reason why he came to help was because car stopped running again.

So his assumption is the additives i added fucked up the spark plugs and he wants me to renew them, and the spark plug wires just to be safe.

Neither he or I can understand why spark plugs would be fuely. I am in need of money so I need to sell the truck as soon as I can

I hired another mechanic today, he said there should be fuel pump running when you turn the ignition to on position and my car isn't doing it. Then we attached the fuel pressure thing to see if there is any pressure and when I tried to start the car there was 0psi on the measurer. Now I will change the fuel pump :( The worst part is I took out the gas tank before and it was hard and I could have just changed it then :(

I hired another mechanic today, he said there should be fuel pump running when you turn the ignition to on position and my car isn't doing it. Then we attached the fuel pressure thing to see if there is any pressure and when I tried to start the car there was 0psi on the measurer. Now I will change the fuel pump :( The worst part is I took out the gas tank before and it was hard and I could have just changed it then :(

Proper testing first before you throw a fuel pump in it.
Fuel pump should run for only a 30 second prime when ke is turned on.
But many thing will cause it not to run.
Fuse power to relay and relay and bad wiring.
Check things out first.
MT

Not to slight your mechanical abilities since any mechanic that has never made a mistake is lying or isn't a mechanic, but are you sure you hooked the pump back up securely? If it ran for a while and then stopped, it could be as simple as a bad connection. Check before buying a new one. It sounds like you are about as frustrated as I was two months ago with my '96 before I traded it in.

Good Luck!

Not to slight your mechanical abilities since any mechanic that has never made a mistake is lying or isn't a mechanic, but are you sure you hooked the pump back up securely? If it ran for a while and then stopped, it could be as simple as a bad connection. Check before buying a new one. It sounds like you are about as frustrated as I was two months ago with my '96 before I traded it in.

Good Luck!

He checked out the fuses too yesterday, and I took out the gas tank myself and put it back in. It was a bitch, but it was working the same way before and now it is working the same way. After I try to start the car and can't i hear its running for about 2 more seconds like i always heard. Either the fuel line is clogged or its not giving any fuel. Because when i try to start the car there is no fuel going to the engine.

I mean i can hear it is running, it has errors i believe

I will change the damn thing today and let you guys now whatsup. I will be just so pissed tho, if it is as simple as a fuel pump and at the same time I hope it is a fuel pump so the nightmare would be over.

Proper testing and testing first thing before throwing more pumps at it.
Is the fuel pump getting power threw the fuel pump relay.
The gray wire from relay feeds the fuel pump 12 volts to run fuel pump.
Make sure it has and is getting 12 volts there first thing.
Good luck MT.

Proper testing and testing first thing before throwing more pumps at it.
Is the fuel pump getting power threw the fuel pump relay.
The gray wire from relay feeds the fuel pump 12 volts to run fuel pump.
Make sure it has and is getting 12 volts there first thing.
Good luck MT.
You are right MT I am looking at relay switch at the moment, so the gray cable has to have 12V and when I turn the key to the on position -not start ing it- it gotto send 12V right?

Ok I either screw at testing or there ain't no power at the cable

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I found out that the 2nd relay to the right is fuel pumps relay
turned the key on and checked the voltage = 0
then tried to start the car and checked the voltage = 0

This voltage measurer is my roommates' and a bit complicated so i tried every possible combinations yet couldn't get a result no different than 0
I actually tried it on black/white cable also, thinking that it looked kinda greyish but same result :(

I am not sure about the spot you are testing at.
Everything has to be pluged up to test.
There should be a single gray fuel pump test wire or hook onto the gray wire out of fuel pump relay.
But when key is first turned on you will have fuel pump power for only a 30 second prime up.
Then no power to fuel pump or fuel pump run wntill the engine is cranking or started.

Bes way to test is to tap 12 volt gray fuel pump wir and check fo power for 30 seconds after key is first turned on.
And listen for fuel pump to run 30 second on prime up.
Then whe engine is cranking or running the gray wire shold have 12 volts all the time.
If not check relay and 12 volt orange fused feed wire to it.
Also check for good hot blue spark to all plugs.

I am not sure about the spot you are testing at.
Everything has to be pluged up to test.
There should be a single gray fuel pump test wire or hook onto the gray wire out of fuel pump relay.
But when key is first turned on you will have fuel pump power for only a 30 second prime up.
Then no power to fuel pump or fuel pump run wntill the engine is cranking or started.

Bes way to test is to tap 12 volt gray fuel pump wir and check fo power for 30 seconds after key is first turned on.
And listen for fuel pump to run 30 second on prime up.
Then whe engine is cranking or running the gray wire shold have 12 volts all the time.
If not check relay and 12 volt orange fused feed wire to it.
Also check for good hot blue spark to all plugs.

I took out the gas tank and fuel pump. When I went to Napa I bought a new relay and pump. Guys told me if I use relay, I can't return. So I just plugged in the new pump and as soon as I turn the key to the on Position I hear WZZZ that pump sound and I say YES!! so it was pump, I am just putting back it together and I am pretty sure it will start now. Funny how much money and time I spent, where it was only $63 close to me.

Sounds like you may have it fixed.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
MT

Sounds like you may have it fixed.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
MT

Yes MT, I will never speak too early again. I put the tank back in turned the car on, pump makes noise -it works- but there is no pressure in the fuel line. Then I try to start the car, and the same no pressure, no fuel. After that replaced the relay that I was gonna return back to Napa, didn't make any change still the same result. Why wouldn't I have fuel pressure? I mean i hear fuel pump working

If you can hear the pump run that is a plus.
If the pump is running and no fuel pressure.
First thing add 5 gallon of fuel to tank to make sure it has enough gas in it for the fuel pump to suck gas.
Then block return line or hook a fuel gauge direct onto the fuel line t fuel filter and see if pump is putting out pressure.
At that point Are you getting any pressure at all?
If no pressure at all the fuel pump is not sucking gas or not working right or leaking off pressure some place.
Have you checkd the fuel filter real good.
A stopped up fuel filter will stop fuel and pressure from going threw it.
Also checked for pinched or blocked fuel lines.

If all of that check out you may have to drop the tank and recheck the fuel pump. Check the rubber hose connections [and hoses clamps] on it from output of fuel pump to gas line going out of the tank.
Also some of the have a pulsator that connects the pump to the output line,
It is a little metal tank with a rubber damper in it that can be bad and letting off pressure.
Does your pump have a pulsator or just a rubber hose connection on it?
MT

If you can hear the pump run that is a plus.
If the pump is running and no fuel pressure.
First thing add 5 gallon of fuel to tank to make sure it has enough gas in it for the fuel pump to suck gas.
Then block return line or hook a fuel gauge direct onto the fuel line t fuel filter and see if pump is putting out pressure.
At that point Are you getting any pressure at all?
If no pressure at all the fuel pump is not sucking gas or not working right or leaking off pressure some place.
Have you checkd the fuel filter real good.
A stopped up fuel filter will stop fuel and pressure from going threw it.
Also checked for pinched or blocked fuel lines.

If all of that check out you may have to drop the tank and recheck the fuel pump. Check the rubber hose connections [and hoses clamps] on it from output of fuel pump to gas line going out of the tank.
Also some of the have a pulsator that connects the pump to the output line,
It is a little metal tank with a rubber damper in it that can be bad and letting off pressure.
Does your pump have a pulsator or just a rubber hose connection on it?
MT

Thank god I haven't put the tank all the way back up. Ummm today tho this whole thing kinda weirded me out because I recently replaced fuel filter also. So I take the gauge which I bought from Schucks and tried it on my 99 Camaro. There is no pressure there either when the car is running. And I had pay something close to $60 for that thing, I am pissed!!! Its been more than a month and i got no reciept I don't think there is a credibility of returning this POS. Now I am looking to borrow a gauge if I can find or else will buy another one but not from effin Schucks.

Will keep you updated, but probably we don't have a problem there anymore. Trying to think what else could be the problem.

If the gauge is bad take it back anyway.
They may make it good.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
MT

If the gauge is bad take it back anyway.
They may make it good.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
MT
Have a good question;

I detached the fuel line which goes to the motor. and turned the key to the ON position fuel flew like butter, got wet :) but when I take the injectors out (i only took 3 out of them) and I turn the key to ON position, fuel pump makes noise i know fuel coming but nothings coming out of injectors. Thats my question am I supposed to see fuel coming out of the injectors? If so I think the injectors are fine but whatever is giving them power is ruined.

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The injector will not squirt fuel on just the key on position.
Key on just runs the fuel pump for a 30 second fuel pressure prime up.

From the picture you posted you only have one injector.
The 6 plastic tubes that run to each cylinder are poppet valves that are hooked to the injector.
When the injector squirts fuel it feeds it threw the 6 lines and poppet valves that squirt fuel to each cylinder.

But a word of caution when checking for injector squirting with the upper intake off as in the picture.
Disable the dist and ignition.
Do not hit the starter or crank engine with the intake off with dist firing the plugs or the engine may wind up and blow up.

For the injector to squirt fuel the engine has to be cranking or running.
Also the injector has to have 12 volt power to it one one wire with key on and be getting a injector pulse from the computer on the other wire.
No 12 volts key on or no injector pulse from pcm and it will not squirt.
If you are going to check for injector squirting with intake off be careful.
Always disable the dist from sparking the spark plugs.
Pull the coil wire or make sure the dist is unhooked.

Carefully pull a poppet valve out of the hole where it goes into a cylinder.
Remember they are old plastic lines and will break if not moved easy.
Crank the engine with dist spark disabled and you should see fuel squirt from the end of poppet valves that go into each cylinder.

I always check with key on for 12 volt power to one side of the injector body where the two wires feed onto it.
And also the 2 wire wiring where it goes into intake and plugs onto the injector.

Let us know where you are at now.
Intake off or intake on and ready to start it?
MT

The injector will not squirt fuel on just the key on position.
Key on just runs the fuel pump for a 30 second fuel pressure prime up.

From the picture you posted you only have one injector.
The 6 plastic tubes that run to each cylinder are poppet valves that are hooked to the injector.
When the injector squirts fuel it feeds it threw the 6 lines and poppet valves that squirt fuel to each cylinder.

But a word of caution when checking for injector squirting with the upper intake off as in the picture.
Disable the dist and ignition.
Do not hit the starter or crank engine with the intake off with dist firing the plugs or the engine may wind up and blow up.

For the injector to squirt fuel the engine has to be cranking or running.
Also the injector has to have 12 volt power to it one one wire with key on and be getting a injector pulse from the computer on the other wire.
No 12 volts key on or no injector pulse from pcm and it will not squirt.
If you are going to check for injector squirting with intake off be careful.
Always disable the dist from sparking the spark plugs.
Pull the coil wire or make sure the dist is unhooked.

Carefully pull a poppet valve out of the hole where it goes into a cylinder.
Remember they are old plastic lines and will break if not moved easy.
Crank the engine with dist spark disabled and you should see fuel squirt from the end of poppet valves that go into each cylinder.

I always check with key on for 12 volt power to one side of the injector body where the two wires feed onto it.
And also the 2 wire wiring where it goes into intake and plugs onto the injector.

Let us know where you are at now.
Intake off or intake on and ready to start it?
MT

This is great info MT, I can't thank you enough. I will check the voltages first which I am sure is the problem -since I am still using that other mechanics spider, which was running ok in his car- Then probably will check the injectors like the way you said coil is unplugged. Will let you know whatsup

So like you said I unplugged the coil and tried start it without the intake on and injectors would squirt good! See now I have this theory, it was an inter midden problem of the pump from the beginning but then I messed up the timing on the dist. and now its a sparking issue.

Let me repeat what do I and you tell me if I am correct or wrong. Finger is in number 1 spark plug, i feel its coming up. I line up the first line coming on the pulley to the middle pointer, and it is TDC? Then rotors end needs to be pointing towards number 1 on the cap!

So like you said I unplugged the coil and tried start it without the intake on and injectors would squirt good! See now I have this theory, it was an inter midden problem of the pump from the beginning but then I messed up the timing on the dist. and now its a sparking issue.

Let me repeat what do I and you tell me if I am correct or wrong. Finger is in number 1 spark plug, i feel its coming up. I line up the first line coming on the pulley to the middle pointer, and it is TDC? Then rotors end needs to be pointing towards number 1 on the cap!

That should get the dist set.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.

That should get the dist set.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
I cranked the pulley 6 full times by a breaker bar and each time the line (the first line) has lined up on TDC, I would stick a rod in and check if the piston is up. Unfortunately it was never up of all 6 times.

Then I remember, one of the stupid mechanics that I hired cranked the counter clock wise even tho i told him not to do and the bolt came loose. Now I think I think he fucked up the pulley position! Now I have TDC somewhere in the middle between 2 lines and I am SO F***ing PISSED.

Time and money consuming, hiring another guy, giving another $40 to someone for no reason made me realize that they aren't better than me yet worse. I have never given up on anything in my life, but I am so close to give up for the first time. If it was a honda or some other POS like that I would have just part it out, sell it part by part!

If I were to plug a pressure gauge in number 1, can I find the TDC? and would it show pressure if I cranked it with a breaker bar? And what would be the number for pressure that I will stop cranking? Thank you

Are you using drivers side for no 1 piston?
Hang in there. You are close to getting it.
Sometimes it helps to walk away from it and let it rest for a while then when you go back to things go better.
Good luck.
MT

Are you using drivers side for no 1 piston?
Hang in there. You are close to getting it.
Sometimes it helps to walk away from it and let it rest for a while then when you go back to things go better.
Good luck.
MT

Yes drivers side, I have double checked everything many times!

Get it on compression stroke and feel the piston for being on top dead center.
Then take a marker and put a mark on the crank pulley at top dead center.
Then drop in your dist and get the rotor as close to no one plug wire as you can.
It should be ready to start and run.
If it starts and runs you can fine tune the timing after it starts and runs.

You could also have two sets of timing markers.
Look straight down behind of water pump for a timing marker on engine timing chain cover and on drivers side of timing cover for a timing marker on timing chain housing.
Some times the engine gets replaces and timing markers gets changed around or left off and also the wrong crankshaft damper will throw you off on the mark.