VTEC vs. SR20DE

um, a b16 bottom end will hold together pretty well over 200hp.

even if you turbo, which is way more stress than na, you can get close to 300whp out of it stock bottom...

a friend of mine had one that he put a nice turbo on that made 280 at the wheels...

as well as a vortech s/c b16 that made 275 at the wheels. stock bottom.

why can't they handle more?

and nz is full of hot cars... they can get skylines and all sortsa jdm stuff there. all the time compared to us here in the states.

but hey... whatever floats your boat.

the problem is that the honda market has taken over the industry, and even though there are amazing nissans and everything else under the sun, no one knows about anything else, and it is a fairly black art to play with something other than a big H.
and i'll admit that i have learned alot in this thread...
i think it's all about comfort level... i wouldn't be comfy with a motor where all of the info about it is in japanese... but if it is badass, it's still badass.

But whats interesting is that GT2 claims the VZ-R N1 used an SR20ve with 200hp and the VZR used the SR16ve with 175hp. hmmmmmmmm

uinfortunately, GT2 provided the wrong info. the VZ-R N1 comes with the 200hp SR16VE(N1 spec).The VZ-R comes with the SR16VE 175hp.
the SR20VE comes from the PRIMERA. if you want info on these sr engines, visit SR20DEforum.com. and your questions and doubts about the SR engies will be answered. :silly2: :silly2: :silly2: :silly2: :silly2:

man i went to towers tonight... there were 2 halfs of the show the side with a bunch of really nice vettes. and the side with 10 thousand of the EXACT SAME looking civics with altezzas and white rims... but guess what i didn't see?!?! not one dam NISSAN! the only one ther ewas my mom's infiniti I30 that we drove. i have no clue what the world is coming to and i hope you will all take a moment of silence for all the mislead people at the show, i feel for them badly and hope that one day they will realize. By the way we hit it against a turbocharged Si Manual in my uncles STOCK 98 sentra GXE auto and whooped his ass. he allmost cried :silly2: but anyway, i love you all that love your nissans, and if my first car aint a nissan, i'll ride the bus PEACE!

SOMEbody's been token the reefer...

not any more

We raced a Vz-R, and the 1st/08 .....and i must say the car runs really good....we got a JDM prelude type S.:devil:

Now we won the race, but although i don't know how far apart the cars were at the finish line, i must say the Vz-R gave the Type S a nice run.

It made me wonder whether it's a N1 model or not.....lol....oh and the type S was stock, while the Vz-r, almost stock with a performance filter...but i guess although the type S has more power than the Luciano (pulsar) Vz-R , one must take into consideration that the Vz-R is much much lighter.............but yes it is a good car.

And i don't think one could actually compare the internals of a Honda with that of a nissan.......damn!!......a skyline GTR can handle up to 600 HP with just the stock internals, while still quite new.

But also consider the fact that Honda doesn't make turbo charged car ( anymore...i think there was one like in the 80's or so) , and yet still the NSX Zero Type S .........damn.......280HP stock, and the car is made with the Japanese HP limitation of 280HP from a production car in mind....so BOTH companies are great.

For small yet effiecient and powerful, I would go with the honda........For sky's the limit, hey give Nissan their props.....GTR all the way.

We raced a Vz-R, and the 1st/08 .....and i must say the car runs really good....we got a JDM prelude type S.:devil:

Now we won the race, but although i don't know how far apart the cars were at the finish line, i must say the Vz-R gave the Type S a nice run.

It made me wonder whether it's a N1 model or not.....lol....oh and the type S was stock, while the Vz-r, almost stock with a performance filter...but i guess although the type S has more power than the Luciano (pulsar) Vz-R , one must take into consideration that the Vz-R is much much lighter.............but yes it is a good car.

And i don't think one could actually compare the internals of a Honda with that of a nissan.......damn!!......a skyline GTR can handle up to 600 HP with just the stock internals, while still quite new.

But also consider the fact that Honda doesn't make turbo charged car ( anymore...i think there was one like in the 80's or so) , and yet still the NSX Zero Type S .........damn.......280HP stock, and the car is made with the Japanese HP limitation of 280HP from a production car in mind....so BOTH companies are great.

For small yet effiecient and powerful, I would go with the honda........For sky's the limit, hey give Nissan their props.....GTR all the way.

OK first i found this board while looking for info on older cars, there is a lot of peeps here who can help me, its cool like that.

I started reading this thread half an hour ago, and now i can't even recall what it was about, but i know it wasn't " let's see who can talk the most smack about other car companies"

So far i've heard talk of honda motors (b16's, b18's, f20's,cl V-6's NSX V-6's and i think a d-series somewhere) and nissan motors (ca18e, ca18de, ca18det, sr20de, sr20det,sr20dett, sr20ve sr216ve, Altty 3.5's and Maxy 3.5's even rb26dett's) You all have talked about HP, BHP, CrankHP, WheelHP, Torque prodution motors, race motors, custom motors, :confused: ?MOTORCYCLE motors?, NZ drivers, NZ cars mods teams... ARE YOU GETTING THE PICTURE??? :apoke: THE forem finihed on the first page when Morpheus XIII said in the second replay, "Actually, the B16 would win either stock or with equal simple bolt-on modifications." Which is correct, the B16 will beat a sr20de hands down, the only chance other wise is driver error. After that it just became a shouting fest with only one person talking from actual DRIVING experiance.


SO HEres an Idea, stick to personal experiances and stop BAG'N ON others ideas.

I rode in a friend's acura integra with a B-16A j-spec motor in it. Nothing special, low 15's at best, and he had DC headers, CAI, exhaust, LSD, type R cams and tranny. So I would have to go with the SR-20 on this one, way more torque down low, and that's what dragging comes down to, torque.

B16 vs SR20....hmmm... from experience I've beaten many a B16 powered civic with a SR20 B13 Sentra , on and off the track. The Honda makes up good ground halfway down the strip but the SR20 pulls like mad straight off and continues to put down power right through...no ifs, ands or buts. Interestingly.. my GA16 powered Sentra SS with 5 fwd and intake and exhaust mods pulls even with an Sir Civic.
This motor has Nissan's NVC system which really wakes up at 4500 rpm and pulls strongly to redline. Most people have trouble believing this is a stock non-VVL motor. Just some food for thought.

I love Honda and I love my car. I'm going to soon have a B16a in my hatch. But as soon as I get the cash, i'm getting a '97 240 and dropping an SR20 in that hoe! I want to keep my civic though, we'll see how that turns out.

This is not even a fair comparison. It's got to be a joke right? the sr20de is no match for the 2nd best 1.6 in the entire world.

b16a = extremely high-quality engine that will rev to 9000 STOCK
sr20de = cost cutting exercise for nissan because ca18 was too expensive to build, will never rev over 7500 without HEAVY valvetrain mods. comparatively low quality.

without a turbo the sr20 licks the sweat off a dead mans balls. and even with a turbo the fj20 or ca18 are better engines. they don't use rocker arms and can rev FAR more freely.

Trust me, a b16a can make well over 200hp with no turbo.

there are all ready a few sr20des macking more than 200whp and 170+lbs torque over 6000 rpm and it will be much more cheeper to build this motor than the b16 series .........all this sr20s pass emitions.

To clear up a few things,
I think that a B16A would beat a SR20DE
but...
However it wouldnt beat Nissans flagship 1600cc which is the SR16VE.
A Nissan Pulsar VZ-R N1 with the NEO VVL SR16-VE Engine is faster throughout the rev range than Hondas flagship B16B Civic Type-R.
This is not just my opinion but that of Japans 'Best Motoring' Team which conducted a test proving so.
This is to be expected when it produces 15 BHP and a massive 18 ft/lb (for the size of the engine) of Torque.
A piece of by the way information is that if you fit the head off the VZ-R N1 to the SR20VE engine block, its output increases from 190 Ps to 235 Ps.
For those who want to know more than just the VZ-R figures. I have both a VZ-R and a VZ-R N1 and the engine works in three stages where intake valves and exhaust valve open at various stages but the final stage occurs at 6,800 RPM, this is when you really begin to feel the power, where the exhaust valves open into fast mode with the already fast mode opened intake valves. The effect of this is a complete change in the exhaust note if you have an aftermarket system, its amazing, you'd really have to hear it.
The VZ-R N1 is very highly tuned and idles at 1,500 RPM, it is very torquey at low rpm, very high BHP at high rpm but it feels as though it is lacking slightly in the mid-range. I proberly wouldnt notice this only for the fact that the low and high end are so extreme.

Originally posted by MIVEC

The VZ-R N1 is very highly tuned and idles at 1,500 RPM, it is very torquey at low rpm, very high BHP at high rpm but it feels as though it is lacking slightly in the mid-range. I proberly wouldnt notice this only for the fact that the low and high end are so extreme.


THANK YOU!!!!!
That is exactly what I have been saying!
The N1 might make more hp than a B16b, but then it is tuned to a much higher degree, and is built with one purpose in mind.
Track racing. With an idle of 1,500rpm it is clearly not intended as a street engine, the car is made to compete in the N1 class in Japan.
Its clearly a great engine.

Unforunatly it dosnt mean its a better engine than either the B16a or the B16b.
Infact it shows its not nearly as good an engine.
A B16a or b can easily be tuned to 200hp, (give me NZ$5g and Ill do it in an afternoon) and it will still idle comfterbly at 700rpm, and it will not miss any mid range or low end power.


MIVEC as one of the more rational and educated contributors to this thread you may find this one quite interesting: http://pub143.ezboard.com/fnzprimeracarclubfrm2.showMessage?topicID=64.topic you will have to sign up and log in, but thats no big deal, and it well worth it.

And from your username I take it you used to own or still own an FTO??
I would be very interested in how you think the MIVEC compares with VTEC and VVL. From my experiance on the road its not nearly as good as either.




and for those who think getting 200hp from an SR20de is easy read this:
http://www.sr20deforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30813

My whole car cost less than the parts list for 200hp at the wheels. And I could have bought a Type R civic for the total cost of the engine with the NOS ready bits in it. And then most ppl would still have to pay for labour to get it assembled, and the extensive head work done.

Originally posted by Moppie





And from your username I take it you used to own or still own an FTO??
I would be very interested in how you think the MIVEC compares with VTEC and VVL. From my experiance on the road its not nearly as good as either.



Ummmmm......If you look by his name he has owned a Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg- that is no doubt his Mivec powered car :cool:

Originally posted by Jimmy_11_cars
If you look by his name he has owned a Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg- that is no doubt his Mivec powered car :cool:

I saw that after I made the post, since hes from Ireland I assumed he had one of the UK spec FTO's, but he clearly had a Cyborg instead.
Altough there a funny car, there were Turbo and MIVEC models made along side each other. (and of course there are non MIVEC or Turbo models as well)

I'd like to post a few pics of both of them but they are too big to attach, i know you can resize them but it blurrs them beyond recognition when i try, will try and sort out solution soon.

The N1 is still very drivable on roads though, it warms up extremly quickly so as you can enter the high cam mode unlike V-TEC and especially MIVEC. You can drive the guts out of the engine and know your not harming it and the gearbox is sweet enough for downchanging at high speed.

Thanks for that link, i've give it a read, i've lost count of the number of forums im a member of, i only realised i was a member of this one already when i tried to join it, lol.

I didnt have a FTO, i had a Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg RS, i dont know if you know of this car but its another one of the 4 great 1600 cc engines. It produces 175 BHP and 123 ft/lb Torque, its system is MIVEC.

I kind of prefer MIVEC than V-TEC but thats because of a more sentimental reason, because it was my first vvtl car, it has more torque down low and has a much throatier induction growl, its also rarer than V-TEC in my country so i like the oddball cars which i think is evident by now.
Im not sure if its any faster than V-TEC, i have beaten various B16A's with it along with every other hot hatch but i had a lightweight model so that would have helped me.
All those 1600cc variable valve timing are much in the muchness anyway.
In about a week, i will have a Toyota Levin BZ-R which is a 1.6 20 valve 165 BHP engine. Its a very smooth engine with a 6 speed gearbox and im pretty sure its faster than B16A coz i've seen 1/4 mile videos of it racing against Civic B16A but i will post about it again soon when i drive it and judge for myself.

The thing that lets the FTO down i think is its gear ratios, especially that of the change from 1st to 2nd when dragging.

Anyway, if anything those 2 newly mentioned cars should add something interesting to the mix.

Here is the power graph for the Nissan Pulsar VZ-R N1's SR16VE Engine

Thanks for the coments.
If you have trouble with the pics email them to me [email protected] Im pretty good at doing good things with them.

There are a few Cyborg RS's here in NZ, but like the VZ-R they are not common.
I think Iv taken one on the road and left it behind, but I have no idea if it was an RS, or one of the lesser Cyborg models.
I certianly walk all over FTOs and V6 MIVEC Gallants.


Im not surprised the N1 engine warms up quickly, its clearly very high strung, and like all race engines will warm up quickly.
But you cant seriously say you would rather be able to get off the clutch at 1,500rpm than 1,000? and my car will pull smoothly and easily in any gear from as low as 600rpm.



And I hate to disapoint you about the 20valve 4age, it has 160 Toyota hp, which equals about 145-150 real hp.
There are plenty of dyno plots on the net to prove it, and I know someone who owns one being prepared as a race engine who dosnt think it even has 150hp (it will have more whens he done with it of course).
On the road I leave them behind with very little effort, and I feel you will be very disapointed when compared to your Pulsars.
I know someone who owns a VZR Caldina, which is the Wagon version of the Corrola with the 20V and a 6sp in it. He only bought it because it has 6 gears, but is very disapointed with the performance.
Of course being a 4age there is plenty of room for performance improvements, but the variable cam timeing then becomes a pain to work around, and since you own the N1 why bother?



oh and its VTEC not V-TEC ;)

I've mailed you the pics. The silver one is the VZ-R and the VZ-R N1 is the white one. Cheers

The RS model i had wasnt just like other RS's, this one was well kitted out with a roll cage and lightened bodyshell and lots of other stuff but thats besides the point, It had a little performance work too though.

I dont even touch the accelerator when letting off the clutch in the N1, i dont need to, its like a diesel in that regard.
I've got a B16A also and is what im driving at the moment, its pulls from low alright, im always in fifth to save on petrol.

The latest (1997 on) 20 valve has 165 Ps. The one on its way to me has full Bomex kit, Jasma header, TRD exhaust, Induction & other stuff i dont know about yet, i might have it dynoed, i hoping 175-180 at flywheel.

I actually sold the N1 not very long ago but theres another on the way.
The V-TEC thing is like smoking, its a habit and i know its wrong !

Originally posted by MIVEC


The latest (1997 on) 20 valve has 165 Ps.

No they dont. According to Toyota they do, but its an exagerated number.
They are very common cars here in NZ (you get swarms of them buzzing around the city on weekends, Im undecied if thier worse than the misqiteos or not) and its pretty common knowledge that they have less than the quoted power figure.
about 150hp seems to be the commonly accepted number at the moment.
The last of the Super charged cars had about 160hp, and are almost as quick as my car.

and Ill get to work on those pics right away.
They make a nice addition to my collection. :)

What is the retail on a Levin 20v in Ireland??? Oh and might I suggesta 156 ;) :finger: j/p

A 1999 Levin BZ-R in excellent condition and a few mods in Ireland is worth over 16,000 Euros from a private seller or whatever the buyer is willing to pay and a couple more grand from a garage most likely. This car is expensive from Japan to begin with anyway.

My mother has a Alfa Romeo 156 with bodykit already so inkow whats its like, nice car.


P.S: There is some very informative threads on the SR20DE forums about the SR VE Engines, how to tune them, swap & interchange them etc. Some serious power can be got from these engines.
I've been reading threads from around the world for over 5 hours now about Hondas VTEC Engines and Nissans NEO VVL and Turbo Engines.

Well share some of the links on the NEO VVL engines will ya!!!!!

And that is a very expensive Levin, I won't tell you what even the newer ones sell for down here. But they are not that expensive to get out of Japan. (unless Ireland has large import dutys)


anyway I got the pics done, here ya go:



Pics of MIVECs Pulsars:

The VZ-R

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/345202VZR.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/529889VZR2.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/290989VZ-Rint.jpg


The now sold VZ-R N1

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/298904N1-1.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/306264N1engine.jpg

Hello, have you guys heard of ENGINE SWAPS!!! One of my friends has a 93 civic hatch cx with a b20Z fully built and a whopping turbo that is unstoppable in my area... he's beat supras with twin turbo... Point is, a civic is light as hell... put a turbo in a 240sx and put a turbo in a civic... what do you get... in a 240 you get a turboed car that has more power, but is heavy as hell... In a civic you get a turboed car that has more power but is light as hell... Who's gonna win? I think we can figure that one out with little to no problems... Matter of fact everyone on here is talking about ooooo the b16a with no torpue... why hasn't anyonw said SR20de against the B18C... they're in the same category... My Best friend has a four door GSR that is stock and it whooped on a 91 nissan sentra SE-R... Got the tape to prove it... None of you Meeches can explain why the gsr engine has so much pull with only 170 horses and 127 pounds of torque... If that mystery could be solved by anyone other than honda, then Ford Focuses would be whooping on GSR's... I don't care what anybody says about an SR20de motor... It's whack without the "T" in front of it... If it's not an SR20DeT then I don't even wanna see it typed, because too many of those de's are getting whooped on around these parts... But mention the SR20DET, and I start smiling... :)

So, point is, the B16A is out of style, because it is torqueless and everybody knows that... I shouldn't hear see the letters F20C from the S2000 and SR20DE in the same sentence... If you don't understand go buy some scrubs from your local hospital wear shop and go test drive an S2000 (they'll think you're a doctor, but don't go talkin' all ghetto, cuz they'll start asking too many questions :) )The SR20DE should be placed in the category with the B18C1 GSR motor, and the SR20DE does NOT out perform it... If you don't believe me and you've never seen it with your own eyes in your home town, get hispeed internet and download a couple of videos from Kazaa or something and eat some popcorn and download a couple of resumes and pretend that you have a future!!! However a smile will be placed on any of our faces everytime we see a sweet SR20DET motor... Because whether you're a honda fan or a Nissan fan, you gotta love Nissans, or you're considered a Meech in my book... I'm sure at least 60 percent of you will agree with me on this one... Especially if you've driven all these cars, cuz if you haven't, you shouldn't even be typing responses to these threads... Peace Out!

Really Folks what is the deal. I recognize that the honda B series engine is an awesome engine, but why dog on the nissan engine. You say that it does not rev. Mine revs to just under 8000rpm with no problem. Granted the power drops off drastically at 7k. That just means that my power comes on quicker which aids in acceleration. You say that it costs a ton of money to make the DE fast. I have a 100 shot and can run easy 13.5s on the stock tires. I love the honda motors. But to say that a sr20de will never beat a gsr in NA trim, well that is down right stupid. I read this entire post and got the impression that 14 year olds should not have the internet at their disposal. I regularly beat GSR's with my "classic" without usinng my Nitrous. I even beat The RSX type S. I also whup on mildly modofied WRX's. I am not saying my car is invincible, because i have lost my fare share of races too(in my nissan, never in my mustang) I have friends with modofied GSR's and SI's that admit that my car is damn fast. It just seems to me that you guys are unedducated in anything but what Super street feeds you.

In all honesty the GSR has way mor technology, but it does not have the torque. My car will beat a Vorteched b16 dynoing 245whp through 2nd gear without the nitrous, and will whup it through all gear with the nitrous. Lets not get started on the immature babbling that mkes many honda owners seem uneducated.

All the engines are great engines. The sr20ve can produce copious amounts of power and can rev to over 9000 rpm with a cam and spring swap. So can a gsr. but the B18 does not have the tourque, and its power curve is very peaky. Nissan build engines with torque, and flat power curves. If you dont believe me, you have never driven a nissan or seen first hand dyno testing.

My 2 cents. Please e-mail me if you have any real questions.

If I've done this right this is a rolling road print out of my totally standard Pulsar Gtir (sr20det) with absolutely no mods, not even an air filter. AND slightly less boost than it should. It's a 92 jap import in the uk.


http://community.webshots.com/sym/image5/0/17/5/69601705DATfdg_ph.jpg



http://community.webshots.com/sym/image5/0/17/5/69601705DATfdg_ph.jpg

Well, 3 VZ-R N1's on and i still think its better, otherwise why would i keep buying them ?
Heres a post that ought to get things going again.
For anybody who doubts it
here is a link to a VCD video of the Nissan Pulsar VZ-R N1 kicking the Civic Type-R's ass, im not joking, the guy is toying with him !!!
It then goes up against a 280 BHP SPOON Civic Type-R and leads the entire race.
On the webpage listed below, it is the very last video.

http://www.pulsar.org.au/multimedia/videos.php

Also, for it to work you will need to download this codec software
located at www.divx.com and install it.
dont bother downloading the divx Pro, the standard divx will do.

Look foward to the feedback

L8r, enjoy..

both motors, SR20DE and B16A are very good.

I believe the B16A is a better motor stock though.

I think Honda also make more power with less boost if turboed aswell.

Ive seen and read in a respected high performance magazine an S15 SR20ET with quite a few mods and running 16psi make 215KW @ the wheels and a B18C (ITR) with stock internals and blowing only 6psi making 220KW @ the wheels. All dyno proven.

thats a big difference when psi is concerned.

all in all im biased towards Honda as they engineer cars more to my liking (free revving NA street legal circuit racers, well Type R models anyway and thats what i'm talking about) but i dont discredit Nissan.

When every 2nd cars a Skyline or Silvia and every third cars a WRX its nice to see an clean NA Honda keeping it up with the best of them.

Honda is for the purist, Nissan for the turbo power hungry masses.

Originally posted by CHRIS200T


Honda has a technology edge?? uhhhh I think not. Why does the SR16VEN1 engine found in the N1 make more HP per Leter then any honda motor. 1595 CC 200HP 125.39 HP Per Leter
S2000 makes 120 HP Per leter.
Hondas VTEC is a 2 stage system
Nissans VVL is 3 Stage = 3 profiles Intake and Exhaust can turn on at different times Honduh can't

Nother intresting thing I found the New 2.0L VTEC found in the Acura RSX. Funny how thay copyed the dynamics of the SR20 Block. Same size piston bore and stroke. the engine is exactly the same displacement down to the CC as the SR20. Can't honda be origanal! :flipa:

Hate to tell you this bro but the K20C in the S2000 is the ABSOLUTE MOST EFFECIENT ENGINE ON THE PLANET! No engine in the world makes more power per liter than it does. PERIOD!

Did anybody download the video ?
Any comments ?

Originally posted by SuperGreen95EX


Hate to tell you this bro but the K20C in the S2000 is the ABSOLUTE MOST EFFECIENT ENGINE ON THE PLANET! No engine in the world makes more power per liter than it does. PERIOD!

please add "horse" before power......people might think you are thinking torque too....:biggrin:

Does anyone know where i can get a sr20vet from?
if so let me know thanks

hahaha this thread has spanned from 2001 - 2003 !!!
Im gonna make it '01-'04 !!!

my 5cents. Around a track, i'd take the b16a. Driving around town, sr20de. All this talk of SR16DVE or SR20DVE. The engines never came in Nissan Australia's line-up to this date. The B16A got here in the 3rd Gen CRX/DelSol. Comparing the engines though, i guess is a little like comparing a 5.7l HSV GTS Chevy GenIII V8 (402hp|376lbs/ft) vs 5.0l BMW M5 V8 (394hp|369lbs/ft). It's comparable, but it isn't. Or is it....or isnt it......

hahaha this thread has spanned from 2001 - 2003 !!!
Im gonna make it '01-'04 !!!

my 5cents. Around a track, i'd take the b16a. Driving around town, sr20de. All this talk of SR16DVE or SR20DVE. The engines never came in Nissan Australia's line-up to this date. The B16A got here in the 3rd Gen CRX/DelSol. Comparing the engines though, i guess is a little like comparing a 5.7l HSV GTS Chevy GenIII V8 (402hp|376lbs/ft) vs 5.0l BMW M5 V8 (394hp|369lbs/ft). It's comparable, but it isn't. Or is it....or isnt it......
LMAO. What is a SR16DVE??SR20DVE?? I know you mean SR16VE, but you dont even know what your talkin about and you wanna argue. Well i would like to go back to the start where people said "honda makes better NA engines that nissan.." Im not sure, but can somebody name honda's most powerful NA engine? I know nissan would have to be the VRH50A, but i wanna hear about honda...(i only read a few pages,this is too long)

Im not sure, but can somebody name honda's most powerful NA engine?


Ever heard of F1 :rolleyes

Ever heard of F1 :rolleyes
funny........what about a street car?

Im a crazy sr20de fan, a real strong engine can take a lot... like the 2jz, nissan makes some great engines, but the b16 is one of the best of NA, it has a lot of power to unleash, I have a 91 integra with an LS block and b16 vtec head, i got some jdm b16 pistons, type-r cams, i shot peened the origanal rods so the b16 head would fit, and i just built up the head like that, goin all NA im runnin mid-high 13s not bad i dont think... but the sr20de is still great, i built up my friends nx2000 just with the turbo kit we got it down to mid-high 13s i mean they r both great engines,

ouch! thats a bit on the steep side!
but yeah from what I can tell its gone as well. But then im not surprised, it'll probobly show up on queen street in a week or two with a full kit and 18inch wheels.
But whats interesting is that GT2 claims the VZ-R N1 used an SR20ve with 200hp and the VZR used the SR16ve with 175hp. hmmmmmmmm

There are two versions of the VZ-R. They both have 200hp and 134 lbs/ft if I'm correct. There might be a small descrepency in the hp numbers since they're converted from Jap specs but they are both 1.6 liter engines. As for the SR20VE, one has 187 hp and one has 204 (20V) Then of course there is the original SR16VE that puts out 175 hp. As far as VTEC vs. SR20DE, the VTEC would win in most cases but Nissan's VVL will out perform VTEC. Why? TORQUE CURVE.

There are two versions of the VZ-R. They both have 200hp and 134 lbs/ft if I'm correct.


Well from what Iv found, and this inculdes testimony from people that have owned them the standard VZ-R only has 175ps (about 170hp) while the VZ-R N1, has close to 200ps, or about 190hp, and thats assuming Nissan is quoting correct numbers.
You have to remember the car was made during a small engine high hp pissing contest between Toyota (the GT corrola/levin/trueno) Honda (Civic and Integra) and Nissan (Pulsar/Sentra). Toyota have been well proven to have over stated thier peak numbers by as much as 20hp on some versions of the 4age, Honda have been well proven to have been pretty honest. There are however not enough VZ-Rs and SR20ve powered primeras running around NZ or Ausie to have thier true hp confirmed, although from what Iv found the SR20ve does indeed make close to its claimed hp, although the CVT Primeras fitted with it are not all that fast.


As for your claim about torque curves Ill have to see a dyno plot of an SR16ve, or get to drive a VZ-R pulsar before I blieve it.
My old Civic (r.i.p.) had the flatest longest torque curve of any car Iv driven, and that includes a variety of cars from Lotus Esprits to a 540i BMW. While the B16a, like most Honda engines lacks a very high peak torque number, the torque it does have is spread out accross almost the entire rev range. It is the only engine I have ever driven that would pull from below idle in 5th gear with out any hesitation at all. It was just one long smooth pull.

Well from what Iv found, and this inculdes testimony from people that have owned them the standard VZ-R only has 175ps (about 170hp) while the VZ-R N1, has close to 200ps, or about 190hp, and thats assuming Nissan is quoting correct numbers.

My mistake. You're correct in that the VZ-R itself has 175 and the two VZ-R N1s (Version 1 & 2) have 200. However, I've also talked to a few people owning SR16VEs and 20s and they said the numbers were pretty close to real crank hp after the dyno. As said many times before, the Honda/Nissan argument could go on forever. Still, I tend to favor Nissan because my first car was a Nissan Maxima SE and I think they look better than Hondas. I don't think Toyota even falls into the league of Honda and Nissan.

I don't think Toyota even falls into the league of Honda and Nissan.

I have to agree with you there, to many acountants, and not enough enginers running the company. As for Honda vs Nissan, well I guess it all comes down to differing philosophys on car design and manufactor, and what you personaly prefer. I love the approach Nissan took during the 70s, unforunatly it was not sustainable and they failed to change and adjust to suit changing times, hence the companys complete financial collapse, and IMO a serious down grading of thier cars quality and enginering, but an up grade in thier marketing ablities. After all they managed to convince people that a live axle at the back was better than IRS in the Primera, after pioneering the use of IRS in both FWD and RWD. :cool:

And for the record my first car was a Nissan, or rather a Datsun 100a cherry, and it was one of the most fun cars Iv ever been luckey to drive.

I have a 1992 Nissan NX2000-SR20DE w/140,000+ miles, first race in it was against a '94-'99 integra GS-R V-Tec, i was probably bout 5-7 car lengths ahead of it off the line, but when i did hit fourth gear he started to catch up and got closer, but closer was all he could pull, i had no mods and it just looked like his shit was lowered with no performance bolt-ons, when it comes down to it V-Tec can't pull out a win because hondas in general just lack to much low-end and the torque of an SR20DE comes lower and pulls harder-what i am tryin to say is that i think that the SR20DE was built more with performance in mind and is just a more complete engine(except S2000-insane engine)

I have a 1992 Nissan NX2000-SR20DE w/140,000+ miles, first race in it was against a '94-'99 integra GS-R V-Tec, i was probably bout 5-7 car lengths ahead of it off the line, but when i did hit fourth gear he started to catch up and got closer, but closer was all he could pull, i had no mods and it just looked like his shit was lowered with no performance bolt-ons, when it comes down to it V-Tec can't pull out a win because hondas in general just lack to much low-end and the torque of an SR20DE comes lower and pulls harder-what i am tryin to say is that i think that the SR20DE was built more with performance in mind and is just a more complete engine(except S2000-insane engine)

Thats funny..really it is...you sure he was racing?
I run my brothers s2000 all the time with my 00 GSr and i am right on his rear bumper with a cold air and header/exhaust..that means your gonna take an s2000 lol but nooo thats a insane monster LOL..
u smell like bull shit go and buy some cologn..
I dont think any of these posts I have heard are actually people who race.

I also want to know (to everyone who ever said that hondas cant pull below 4500 rpms) why it would matter since I am never below 5500 when I race.. oh wait drop from 5000 ok make that 5000rpms? not like anyone races at low rpms LOL.

SR20DE (Remember, this is coming from a honda owner - I hope you take my statement as a strong one)

SR20DE all the way man.

My 2 cents on the sr20de vs b16a debate. I am very fortunate to have owned both engined cars, the N14 Nissan Pulsar sr20de (heavier than Nissan SE-R USDM) 3 years ago and now a EK4 Honda Civic b16a.

My Nissan Pulsar sr20de had the following set-up:
(1) advanced timing by 2 degrees (I forget the exact setting)
(2) K&N cone style intake
(3) lengthened secondary pipes going into the cat
(4) 2-inch mandrel bent cat-back straight-thru exhaust system
(5) Redline at 7,500 rpm (cut-off at 7,800 rpm)

My Honda Civic b16a is stock standard. Vtec kicks in at 5,500 rpm. Redline at 8,000 rpm.

Comparing the 2 cars, the most obvious difference is the fact that the sr20de starts to choke after 6,500 rpm (you feel a slight drop-off in acceleration) whereas the b16a pulls hard all the way to at least 7,700 rpm. Up to 6,500 rpm the sr20de pulls harder than the b16a, after that the b16a pulls harder (in fact, a lot harder).

3 scenarios, sr20de vs b16a based on my opinion:
(1) off a standing start: sr20de wins, unless you rev the b16a to 6,000 rpm and drop the clutch. B16a might catch up after 150 kmh.
(2) rolling start below 30kmh: sr20de wins by a greater margin than scenario (1) above. Again b16a might catch up at much higher speeds.
(3) rolling start above 70kmh (especially freeway speeds): b16a wins because of much better top end acceleration. B16a must be in the right gear to ensure the engine is singing in the vtec power band, otherwise .....

Please note that if you are caught in the wrong gear in a b16a when racing against a sr20de, the sr20de will just stomp you like no tomorrow. Up until 6,500 rpm the sr20de has the upper hand.

From my experiance on the road its almost what you said.

To get an SiR off the line faster than an SSS/SE-R you need to really ring its nuts off and give the driveline some very serious abuse.
However, once rolling the SiR is the faster car.
The EK4 is a poor comparison, as its a lot heavier than the orgianl EF9 and uses a gearbox with some very lazy ratios to make it more friendly to drive. A better comparison would be the EK9, (type R) which replaced the EF9 and EG6 (SiR, and SiRII) in the model line up in terms of performance.
But that would be somewhat unfair to the SSS or SE-R, as neither are ment to compete in the limited market the EK9 is.

And an SR20, with its lower redline and so smaller power curver is just as vunerable to getting caught in the wrong gear as the B16a is.


The SR20 has a nice bottom end, ruined by a poor breathing cylinder head. Its the nice girl with an ugly face you eventualy marry.

The B16a is just nice all over its well balanced, use able torque down low, and mind boggling performance up high. But its a little to high strung and demanding for most people.
Its the tight bodied 20 year old arts student you have a fling with before you get married.

This is my 1st time log in n so happen 2 come across your subjet VTECH vs SR20 but i would like 2 ask how many of your have driven the NISSAN VE engine with a twin v-tech which has LSD gearbox.

I have a very old NISSAN SENTRA 1st generation hatchback or here we call N13 due 2 the car which is so old i have 2 change 2 a recon engine n which is the SR16 VE that i find it OK until i up grade a few item then it was great. I can say the normal B16A was taking up smoke from my behind unless the B16C SPEC98 then it can beat my old junk.

I have try drag with RX7 before n we were on par. So 2 the inprove on the power is try changing the ECU chip 2 superchip n fit something 2 the fual injection 2 incrise the air flow u might be surprise with what you are getting for me 260km/h is fast n i think this is not the engine limit then i saw the new SR20 VET in X-trail GT which has a 280ps.

People lets stop reviving this thread. It dates back to 2001.