po401 dpfe repalcement AGAIN!!!

Got a CEL the other day and the van started running rough. Had it checked out and it turned out to be 401 insufficient EGR. This will be the 4th DPFE sensor I have put on this van in 2 years. The last one was in April right after the iso-bolt fix. I am using the plastic sensor from Autozone.
I am looking for a reason for this. Am I assuming that sensors just don't hold up and need to be repalced? I do not want to replace this unit every 6 mos. I went to the dealer to ask about a fix, but they said they just replace them. Could I still be sucking too much oil into the intake which leads to the clogging EGR? Anyone having similar issues?
Also, does anyone have the Ford part number for the sensor? I would like to try and purchase from Team Ford, but I cannot find it. The local dealer wants $106. Autozone's is $50 but I would like to see if the Ford will hold up better. Thanks.

Are you positive it's the DPFE sensor? If you didn't ream out the individual EGR jets in the intake manifold during the isolator bolt fix, the low EGR flow could be real.

Joel

"Rodeo02" makes good points.

Also make sure the EGR sensing hoses are clear inside and not cracked or broken. The metal tube between the exhaust manifold and the EGR valve may need to be cleaned also.

But Ford did have some problems with the first design of this sensor. The later (black) sensors were supposed to have better drainage, so that owners who live in cold climates did not have condensation freeze and break the sensor body inside.

I put a new metal one from Advance Auto on mine a few years ago.
They were saying that the metal one was more prone to failure since then....but the original turned out to not be causing the intermiiten miss, and the replacement has been just fine.

Clogged EGR ports is a common issue, and if they have not been cleared, then I would do that.
The crud is just at the end of the port.....everything will be clear from there, through the EGR valve.

Another thing to check....is the vaccum line from the top of the EGR valve.....back to the EGR vaccum control solenoid....and from there...back to the source......the PCV line.....if I remember correctly.
You want to verify that there is not a leak in the line or a pinched spot on it.....so that you know that the EGR valve gets the correct vaccum needed to open.

The EGR valve is not know for being a high failure item.

I put a Greddy catch can in the PCV line....pictures are posted in my pictures.....the idea is to catch moisture and oil vapor from the line.
In hot weather....hardly anything seems to end up in my catch can.
In cold weather....I get a nasty tan...milky stuff.
This is normal.
The hope is that it will keep things in the intake, including the EGR ports, much cleaner.
Of course, one must check....and empty the catch can when needed.
I empty the catch can into my old oil going for recycling.

The idea is to NOT reduce the PCV flow...as it is needed to remove nasty stuff from the crankcase.......so it is normal for some oil to be drawn into the intake.

If this link works, it may help:
.
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getLocator&siteid=214072&chapter=DP2027&appSectionid=2&groupid=20050&subgroupid=61358&make=10&model=Windstar&year=2000&catalogid=1

I cleaned the egr ports during the iso fix. I did not clean the pipes. Upon initial lookover, the vac lines look ok. I still am concerned that I am pulling too much crud from the pcv. In the past, every time that I have replaced the sensor, the codes and problem goes away. If the ports or anything else were clogged, wouldn't that give me a constant cel? I found the sensor online from Ford, so I may try it one more time. I was hoping to find the root cause for the sensor failure, but perhaps it is condensation and freezing. Whatever it is, it is a poor setup and rather annoying.

As it turns out, my local Autozone had the metal DPFE in stock, so that's what I used when the sensor failed on my 2000 LX. Knowing about the redesign, I was a little annoyed - but needed to fix the problem right away, so I went with the metal style. No problems after 1 year.

Yes, pitteach, I'm suspicious something else is going on.

FWIW, I had done the isolator bolt fix just a month or so before the DPFE failed. I replaced the valve cover at the same time, so PCV oil content should be down on mine. Does your van have the updated valve cover design?

Regarding the part number and teamfordparts: Contact them using their e-mail. Bill Jenkins runs their parts department; I have found him to be *very* responsive to e-mail questions.

I did replace the valve cover at the time of the iso-bolt fix. I am suspicious of the aftermarket kit that I used that included the valve cover and pcv valve. The fuel reg vacuum line and the pcv line are failing to the point where they are practically cracked through. I am still trying to get the Dorman company to reimburse me for the new parts. Before I replace the DPFE, I am going to update the pvc valve and vacuum lines to see where that takes me.
I found the sensor at TeamFord for half the cost from the local dealer. What are there shipping rates like? I found a couple on EBay also.
Does anyone know if a different part number DPFE would work on the Windstar? I have noticed that the sensors from other Fordvehicles are considerably cheaper (sometimes 50%) than the one for the Windstar!

While I don't have the paperwork in front of me, I recall the shipping on TeamFordParts orders I've done to be reasonable. I think you can create an order and go right up to the final checkout step, and see the shipping charges they'll fill in before confirming the order.

I can't answer the DPFE part number question. However, it wouldn't surprise me if there are several Ford DPFE part numbers that will work in a single model year Windstar. In a large manufacturing organization, there are many reasons why part numbers can change over time. That said, I'd find some way to verify a part number before trying it, instead of guessing...

I replaced the DPFE the other day with the black plastic Ford part. I picked a new one up off ebay for 45 shipped. I thought about stocking up and buying a couple of them at that price as this will be my 4th one in less than 2 years. The cel went away and the van runs great so I'm assuming that was the issue??? I cracked open the one I replaced from Autozone. I could not see any damage but it was very wet inside. Hopefully the Ford replacement will last. I am also replacing the pcv valve and and vacuum lines to see if it makes a difference. If this does not work, I will be installing the inline oil separator ala Wiswind.

I cannot imagine how oil through the PCV valve would cause the DPFE to fail...without causing other serious problems.
To get to the DPFE, the oil would have to pass through the cylinders....and to foul the DPFE without fouling the spark plugs, carbon buildup in the cylinders, etc?

I would wonder, figuring the hoses and EGR pipe are in good shape, if there is excessive back pressure from clogged cat's. or if there is somehow excessive vibration of that particular part.......without you feeling the vibration inside the vehicle....possible issue with the bracket that holds the DPFE.

It is hard to imagine getting 4 defective parts.

I cannot imagine how oil through the PCV valve would cause the DPFE to fail...without causing other serious problems..

I second that thought wiswind. I could see where severe oil carry-over would lead to oil in the combustion chamber and maybe speed up the process of coking/clogging of the EGR jets in the head, but that's a long shot. Like you say, you'd typically get other symptoms first, like misfires from clogged EGR jets forcing too much EGR through the unclogged ones.

Joel

Good thoughts. Thank you.
I hear what you are saying about the possible clogged cats but wouldn't that throw a cel code of its own? Could it be possible that I damaged the cats by driving with the leaking iso bolts for a long time before fixing?
In looking at the inside of the sensor, I'm leaning towards excessive moisture as the culprit. The internals are very clean except for the moisture which may have frozen in the cold weather and damged the electronics. So if this be the case, how do you avoid moisture in the exhaust?

What I had thought with the excessive oil was that perhaps I was burning some of the oil fumes in the chamber which was reaching the sensor after combustion. But your right, why am I not having any other related issues? I may have to pull some plugs to take a look. I am tempted once again to take off the clamshell to take a peek at the EGR ports. I would have to think that they will be gummed up again by the way this thing sucks oil through the PCV. So it looks like I've solved the iso bolt leak, but will continue to fight with the EGR ports. It will be interesting to see if any of the iso bolt repairers will be dealing with this problem. I thought that the redesigned valve cover would take care of the problem. Just a thought.

As far as excessive vibration, it would have to be due to engine vibration because the sensor mounts solid.
Thanks.

Water is a major component of the combustion process.
Cooler weather results in a lot of condensation within the exhaust system.
This is why you see water dripping out of the tail pipe for a while after the engine is started.
Short trip driving will be the worst as the system does not get fully warmed up.
Once the system is warmed up, the water is STILL there.
However, it does not condense out.
Warming the system up gives the chance for it to dry out, boiling off the water that has built up while it warms up.

Short trip driving, leaves moisture in the exhaust system, it may be warm enough to evaporate the water that is in there.....but it is still trapped in there.....even rising (as steam does) to the higher points......like the DPFE.