1995 3.8L P0305 Cylinder 5 misfire
aslan.de
12-10-2006, 02:37 AM
We have a 1995 Windstar XL with a 3.8L engine. In the past year and a half, the vehicle has begun to have a number of problems, hence the reason I bought a scan code reader.
Here is the latest situation:
Two days ago, our vehicle was running fine. The only issue of note was that the brake and ABS light would come on occassionally (which had led us to do a lot of brake work, which made it disappear save intermittently).
Yesterday morning, my wife noticed that it was running rough and the check engine light came on. When she got home I plugged in the scanner and found the above scan code.
A friend and I pulled the spark plug and noted that it was fouled with fuel and appeared to have uneven burn marks.
This is the second time that the car has had this problem. About 8-10 months ago, cylinder 6 was misfiring. In attempting to fix the problem, I replaced the spark plugs and spark plug wires before taking it to a mechanic. The mechanic told me that it was "the computer" and that they had rewired the cylinder 6 firing control to the cylinder 2 firing control. When I asked why they didn't replace the computer, he said that in the past when cars have had this problem, both fixes had been just about as reliable with the other being quite a bit more expensive. I'm wondering if its not the same problem here and I should be rewiring cylinder 5 firing control to the cylinder 1 firing control (if I knew how).
Also, by looking at this forum, I see that someone else with the same code (plus another) was having issues and ended up doing some work with the fuel injectors. I'm guessing that that isn't the problem here mainly because the spark plug has been fouled by fuel, but I was hoping that someone with a bit more experience in these things might be able to provide some advice.
My friend suggested that it could be a computer issue and I'd be curious to figure out how much it would cost to replace the offending parts (one we determine exactly what those parts are and if they are involved.) He suggested this mainly because 1) the previous problem had been computer related and 2) the brake ABS problem might also be a distantly related symptom.
Thoughts?
Here is the latest situation:
Two days ago, our vehicle was running fine. The only issue of note was that the brake and ABS light would come on occassionally (which had led us to do a lot of brake work, which made it disappear save intermittently).
Yesterday morning, my wife noticed that it was running rough and the check engine light came on. When she got home I plugged in the scanner and found the above scan code.
A friend and I pulled the spark plug and noted that it was fouled with fuel and appeared to have uneven burn marks.
This is the second time that the car has had this problem. About 8-10 months ago, cylinder 6 was misfiring. In attempting to fix the problem, I replaced the spark plugs and spark plug wires before taking it to a mechanic. The mechanic told me that it was "the computer" and that they had rewired the cylinder 6 firing control to the cylinder 2 firing control. When I asked why they didn't replace the computer, he said that in the past when cars have had this problem, both fixes had been just about as reliable with the other being quite a bit more expensive. I'm wondering if its not the same problem here and I should be rewiring cylinder 5 firing control to the cylinder 1 firing control (if I knew how).
Also, by looking at this forum, I see that someone else with the same code (plus another) was having issues and ended up doing some work with the fuel injectors. I'm guessing that that isn't the problem here mainly because the spark plug has been fouled by fuel, but I was hoping that someone with a bit more experience in these things might be able to provide some advice.
My friend suggested that it could be a computer issue and I'd be curious to figure out how much it would cost to replace the offending parts (one we determine exactly what those parts are and if they are involved.) He suggested this mainly because 1) the previous problem had been computer related and 2) the brake ABS problem might also be a distantly related symptom.
Thoughts?
aslan.de
12-11-2006, 10:29 AM
We have a 1995 Windstar XL with a 3.8L engine. In the past year and a half, the vehicle has begun to have a number of problems, hence the reason I bought a scan code reader.
Here is the latest situation:
Two days ago, our vehicle was running fine. The only issue of note was that the brake and ABS light would come on occassionally (which had led us to do a lot of brake work, which made it disappear save intermittently).
Yesterday morning, my wife noticed that it was running rough and the check engine light came on. When she got home I plugged in the scanner and found the above scan code.
A friend and I pulled the spark plug and noted that it was fouled with fuel and appeared to have uneven burn marks.
This is the second time that the car has had this problem. About 8-10 months ago, cylinder 6 was misfiring. In attempting to fix the problem, I replaced the spark plugs and spark plug wires before taking it to a mechanic. The mechanic told me that it was "the computer" and that they had rewired the cylinder 6 firing control to the cylinder 2 firing control. When I asked why they didn't replace the computer, he said that in the past when cars have had this problem, both fixes had been just about as reliable with the other being quite a bit more expensive. I'm wondering if its not the same problem here and I should be rewiring cylinder 5 firing control to the cylinder 1 firing control (if I knew how).
Also, by looking at this forum, I see that someone else with the same code (plus another) was having issues and ended up doing some work with the fuel injectors. I'm guessing that that isn't the problem here mainly because the spark plug has been fouled by fuel, but I was hoping that someone with a bit more experience in these things might be able to provide some advice.
My friend suggested that it could be a computer issue and I'd be curious to figure out how much it would cost to replace the offending parts (one we determine exactly what those parts are and if they are involved.) He suggested this mainly because 1) the previous problem had been computer related and 2) the brake ABS problem might also be a distantly related symptom.
Thoughts?
Additional: Ran a few experiments over the weekend and tore into the machine and a Haynes manual to learn what I could about the situation. I'm sure many already know this, but I will write it here for completeness and so others can determine if I have errors in my logic.
I discovered that the ICM only has three outputs to the coils, one for each of the three in the coil pack. As a test, I switched the cable for cylinder 1 and cylinder 5 to see if there would be a change. There wasn't, nor did I really expect one. I now think that the problem is one of three issues:
1) The spark plug failed prematurely (it has VERY few miles on it). To test this, I plan to switch plug 5 with plug 4 and see if there is a difference. I expect that there will be because I really don't think the plug is to blame. However, if I see the error code move from cylinder 5 to cylinder 4, I have an indication that the plug was at least partially to blame. When I pull the plug, I also plan to photograph it, so maybe someone else can give me an idea of what could be wrong.
2) It isn't the ignition system at all, but the fuel system. Possibility 2 is that it is the fuel injector. I'm going to see if I can manage to pull it out, photograph it, clean it, and move it to cylinder 4 to see if it makes a difference. I do not look forward to this in the slightest.
3) Its not the ignition system al all, its the PCM. This is what the previous problem had to be, which lends weight to the theory that this is what I am experiencing now. Over the weekend, I pulled the PCM out of the car and took a look at it, so I KNOW that I can replace it and that doing so is actually quite straight forward. I'm half tempted to just order a new PCM and install it and a new spark plug when the thing arrives, but I would be really bummed if it didn't solve the problem and I was faced with buying a $80 fuel injector in addition to the $300 PCM. I'm not sure how to tell if its the PCM and would be grateful if someone could give me some pointers in diagnosing it.
Lastly, I have heard that it could also be the head gasket. I really hope it isn't. I've heard that is not only hard, but quite expensive to repair.
Here is the latest situation:
Two days ago, our vehicle was running fine. The only issue of note was that the brake and ABS light would come on occassionally (which had led us to do a lot of brake work, which made it disappear save intermittently).
Yesterday morning, my wife noticed that it was running rough and the check engine light came on. When she got home I plugged in the scanner and found the above scan code.
A friend and I pulled the spark plug and noted that it was fouled with fuel and appeared to have uneven burn marks.
This is the second time that the car has had this problem. About 8-10 months ago, cylinder 6 was misfiring. In attempting to fix the problem, I replaced the spark plugs and spark plug wires before taking it to a mechanic. The mechanic told me that it was "the computer" and that they had rewired the cylinder 6 firing control to the cylinder 2 firing control. When I asked why they didn't replace the computer, he said that in the past when cars have had this problem, both fixes had been just about as reliable with the other being quite a bit more expensive. I'm wondering if its not the same problem here and I should be rewiring cylinder 5 firing control to the cylinder 1 firing control (if I knew how).
Also, by looking at this forum, I see that someone else with the same code (plus another) was having issues and ended up doing some work with the fuel injectors. I'm guessing that that isn't the problem here mainly because the spark plug has been fouled by fuel, but I was hoping that someone with a bit more experience in these things might be able to provide some advice.
My friend suggested that it could be a computer issue and I'd be curious to figure out how much it would cost to replace the offending parts (one we determine exactly what those parts are and if they are involved.) He suggested this mainly because 1) the previous problem had been computer related and 2) the brake ABS problem might also be a distantly related symptom.
Thoughts?
Additional: Ran a few experiments over the weekend and tore into the machine and a Haynes manual to learn what I could about the situation. I'm sure many already know this, but I will write it here for completeness and so others can determine if I have errors in my logic.
I discovered that the ICM only has three outputs to the coils, one for each of the three in the coil pack. As a test, I switched the cable for cylinder 1 and cylinder 5 to see if there would be a change. There wasn't, nor did I really expect one. I now think that the problem is one of three issues:
1) The spark plug failed prematurely (it has VERY few miles on it). To test this, I plan to switch plug 5 with plug 4 and see if there is a difference. I expect that there will be because I really don't think the plug is to blame. However, if I see the error code move from cylinder 5 to cylinder 4, I have an indication that the plug was at least partially to blame. When I pull the plug, I also plan to photograph it, so maybe someone else can give me an idea of what could be wrong.
2) It isn't the ignition system at all, but the fuel system. Possibility 2 is that it is the fuel injector. I'm going to see if I can manage to pull it out, photograph it, clean it, and move it to cylinder 4 to see if it makes a difference. I do not look forward to this in the slightest.
3) Its not the ignition system al all, its the PCM. This is what the previous problem had to be, which lends weight to the theory that this is what I am experiencing now. Over the weekend, I pulled the PCM out of the car and took a look at it, so I KNOW that I can replace it and that doing so is actually quite straight forward. I'm half tempted to just order a new PCM and install it and a new spark plug when the thing arrives, but I would be really bummed if it didn't solve the problem and I was faced with buying a $80 fuel injector in addition to the $300 PCM. I'm not sure how to tell if its the PCM and would be grateful if someone could give me some pointers in diagnosing it.
Lastly, I have heard that it could also be the head gasket. I really hope it isn't. I've heard that is not only hard, but quite expensive to repair.
aslan.de
12-12-2006, 12:11 AM
Update 2: moved spark plugs around and the problem didn't move. This tells me that my spark plugs are still good and that it isn't the ignition system. Looking at the fuel system next. I'm not looking forward to this, since on the '95, pulling a fuel injector requires removing a good chunk of the engine! Then, of course, there are the other issues dealing with a system charged with gasoline and the more I remove, the more likely I am to have incidental damage.
aslan.de
12-13-2006, 01:53 PM
Update 3: We think we know what it is. Here is what has happened for other people's benefit.
1) did a compression check on cylinder #5, result: 160 psi. Good compression. This rules out a valve, piston ring or the head gasket.
2) ran a diagnostic using a really impressive computer and interpreted by a mechanic. The computer indicated that the fuel injectors were all functioning normally.
3) while the diagnostic was running, someone noted that there was water coming out the tailpipe, much more than regular condensation would account for.
4) Before running the van, we had noticed that the coolant levels were low, much lower than they had been a week or so.
Conclusion: The intake manifold gasket has ruptured and is spilling coolant into the #5 cylinder leading to misfire. The gasket needs to be replaced ($15 in parts, $250-$350 in labor since it is WELL above my skill level). Still, if I can get the parts this week, I might try to spend Saturday with a mechanic patching the thing up (since there are several part timers around here).
1) did a compression check on cylinder #5, result: 160 psi. Good compression. This rules out a valve, piston ring or the head gasket.
2) ran a diagnostic using a really impressive computer and interpreted by a mechanic. The computer indicated that the fuel injectors were all functioning normally.
3) while the diagnostic was running, someone noted that there was water coming out the tailpipe, much more than regular condensation would account for.
4) Before running the van, we had noticed that the coolant levels were low, much lower than they had been a week or so.
Conclusion: The intake manifold gasket has ruptured and is spilling coolant into the #5 cylinder leading to misfire. The gasket needs to be replaced ($15 in parts, $250-$350 in labor since it is WELL above my skill level). Still, if I can get the parts this week, I might try to spend Saturday with a mechanic patching the thing up (since there are several part timers around here).
Winny_the_Pooh
12-13-2006, 09:22 PM
My 96 3.8L had a misfire on #1 when I had the lower intake leak. Mine got so bad it was blowing white smoke out of the tailpipe. My coolant level was low also. One distinguishing characteristic was that it was worse after sitting all night. After it had been driven a while and warmed up, the symptoms would greatly reduce or almost disappear. This is due to coolant leaking into the cylinder overnight.
aslan.de
12-17-2006, 08:57 AM
Update 4: We pulled off the intake manifold. Definately not a fun situation. When we pulled the manifold off, the gaskets had only slight damage and appeared to be leaking only around cylinder #3. As a result, we decided to keep going down to the head. While looking under the car, my friend noted that there appeared to be a big rust stain running down from the aft head, indicating that there is at least a problem there.
We haven't gotten down to the head yet and won't restart work until Thursday. Even then, we are waiting for parts to be shipped from the states since we only got the manifold gaskets. Even so, none of the evidence points to cylinder #5 yet, which was definately having problems.
We haven't gotten down to the head yet and won't restart work until Thursday. Even then, we are waiting for parts to be shipped from the states since we only got the manifold gaskets. Even so, none of the evidence points to cylinder #5 yet, which was definately having problems.
aslan.de
12-17-2006, 08:58 AM
Update 4: We pulled off the intake manifold. Definately not a fun situation. When we pulled the manifold off, the gaskets had only slight damage and appeared to be leaking only around cylinder #3. As a result, we decided to keep going down to the head. While looking under the car, my friend noted that there appeared to be a big rust stain running down from the aft head, indicating that there is at least a problem there.
We haven't gotten down to the head yet and won't restart work until Thursday. Even then, we are waiting for parts to be shipped from the states since we only got the manifold gaskets. Even so, none of the evidence points to cylinder #5 yet, which was definately having problems.
We haven't gotten down to the head yet and won't restart work until Thursday. Even then, we are waiting for parts to be shipped from the states since we only got the manifold gaskets. Even so, none of the evidence points to cylinder #5 yet, which was definately having problems.
aslan.de
12-29-2006, 04:31 PM
Update 5: parts finally arrived from stateside. Took a little over a week. We got some shop time and pulled off the aft head - we were greeted by water in #2 and #3 cylinders. It seems that we found the source of our coolant leak!
We went to town cleaning off the block and the heads and have started to reassemble the engine. So far, only the aft head is in place and we are struggling a little to get the aft exhaust manifold reattached, but the feeling is that once everything is finished on the aft head, re-assembly should go fairly quickly. We are still not certain that the original problem will be fixed once the whole engine is re-assembled. Here is hoping.
We went to town cleaning off the block and the heads and have started to reassemble the engine. So far, only the aft head is in place and we are struggling a little to get the aft exhaust manifold reattached, but the feeling is that once everything is finished on the aft head, re-assembly should go fairly quickly. We are still not certain that the original problem will be fixed once the whole engine is re-assembled. Here is hoping.
wiswind
12-29-2006, 05:29 PM
I have a '96, which is somewhat different than your '95.
Take note that when you remove the lower intake manifold, and I would guess....the heads, that the coolant that is in there will run down into wherever is below....which could be some of the coolant that you have seen.
Regardless of how careful you are in draining the coolant out.....there is still quite a bit in there.....and some will still be up topside.
For this reason, changing the oil BEFORE starting the engine is a MUST....to avoid engine damage.
I do not know what coolants are available where you are.
Your profile says you are in Germany.
The '95 windstar shipped from the factory with "traditional green" if they used the same coolant as for the USA.
The G-05, low silicate coolant should be just fine for your vehicle.
In fact, I have it in my '96.
Mercedes has been using G-05 for many years, so I would expect that it is readily available.
It is relatively new to the USA market...but avoids the silicate settle out and sand blasting of the older high silicate coolants, while giving instant protection.
The Dexcool and other non silicate, non phosphate coolants do not provide instand protection....taking up to several thousand miles to build a protective coating.
Not sure about your water supply.....in the USA, they recommed using distilled water (steam distilled is best) to avoid mineral deposits from normal water.
I would buy the coolant in concentrate form, versus 50/50 "premixed". that way you can rinse out the system....with the final rinse being distilled water, drain, then add 1/2 of the total capacity of the system in concentrated coolant......then top off with distilled water.
This way you get the correct concentration of coolant.
Use great care in torquing the bolts down....including the lower intake manifold.
I used a "clicker" type of torque wrench for the lower intake manifold bolts.....and ended up breaking a bolt. I think that it was due to the sealant that I put on the bolts....a bit much.
In hind sight....I would have used a beam type torque wrench.
The gaskets from FORD should be the best, as they will have the updates that make them more reliable.
I would also put some Bar's brand of stop leak in the coolant.
From what I have read, the head gasket fails due to coolant "wicking" into the gasket material at a thin point......causing the gasket be become weak at that point...and failing.
Keeping stop leak in the coolant may keep it sealed up, preventing the failure.
They made changes to the casting to thicken the thin spot(s) starting in the '96 year.
The stop leak will NOT clog things up if used in the recommended amount.
The other gasket I am concerned about is the front cover gasket...also called timing cover gasket.
From what I have read, it is a tougher job than the head gaskets.....and can leak into as well as out of the engine.
I got the stop leak in when my front cover was a slight seapage....and it stopped that, and has kept it sealed for about 4 years now......and I have 178K miles on my '96.
I have pictures posted of several of my projects that may or may not be of help to you in repair projects.
I find that repair manuals are great....but never seem to have enough pictures.
Also, as per FORD, the head gasket and the lower intake manifold gaskets MUST be dry fitted. So resist the urge to add any sealants to them.
The addition of sealants to the head gasket may lead to failure as the block is iron and the head is alluminum.
Another note....use ONLY sensor safe sealants where called for....on the bolts, and on the corners of the "end seals" for the lower intake manifold gaskets.
When you start it up.....really keep an eye on the temperature gauge, as there will still be some air in there. It is possible for an air bubble to cause the coolant to not flow correctly when the thermostat opens up.....causing the temperature to go up.....
You can shut the engine down if the temp goes up too high (before damage), eventually, the air lock will come out.
Keep an eye on the coolant level and add as needed as the air works its way out.
Also, after running, you might (when the engine is cool) remove the radiator cap to make sure that there is not a big air bubble sitting on top of the radiator, keeping the overflow bottle out of the loop.
Really check to make sure that the cap is holding pressure.....mine needed replacement.
Also.....double check that the cap can seal.....a little dirt on the sealing surface can prevent it from holding pressure.
Take note that when you remove the lower intake manifold, and I would guess....the heads, that the coolant that is in there will run down into wherever is below....which could be some of the coolant that you have seen.
Regardless of how careful you are in draining the coolant out.....there is still quite a bit in there.....and some will still be up topside.
For this reason, changing the oil BEFORE starting the engine is a MUST....to avoid engine damage.
I do not know what coolants are available where you are.
Your profile says you are in Germany.
The '95 windstar shipped from the factory with "traditional green" if they used the same coolant as for the USA.
The G-05, low silicate coolant should be just fine for your vehicle.
In fact, I have it in my '96.
Mercedes has been using G-05 for many years, so I would expect that it is readily available.
It is relatively new to the USA market...but avoids the silicate settle out and sand blasting of the older high silicate coolants, while giving instant protection.
The Dexcool and other non silicate, non phosphate coolants do not provide instand protection....taking up to several thousand miles to build a protective coating.
Not sure about your water supply.....in the USA, they recommed using distilled water (steam distilled is best) to avoid mineral deposits from normal water.
I would buy the coolant in concentrate form, versus 50/50 "premixed". that way you can rinse out the system....with the final rinse being distilled water, drain, then add 1/2 of the total capacity of the system in concentrated coolant......then top off with distilled water.
This way you get the correct concentration of coolant.
Use great care in torquing the bolts down....including the lower intake manifold.
I used a "clicker" type of torque wrench for the lower intake manifold bolts.....and ended up breaking a bolt. I think that it was due to the sealant that I put on the bolts....a bit much.
In hind sight....I would have used a beam type torque wrench.
The gaskets from FORD should be the best, as they will have the updates that make them more reliable.
I would also put some Bar's brand of stop leak in the coolant.
From what I have read, the head gasket fails due to coolant "wicking" into the gasket material at a thin point......causing the gasket be become weak at that point...and failing.
Keeping stop leak in the coolant may keep it sealed up, preventing the failure.
They made changes to the casting to thicken the thin spot(s) starting in the '96 year.
The stop leak will NOT clog things up if used in the recommended amount.
The other gasket I am concerned about is the front cover gasket...also called timing cover gasket.
From what I have read, it is a tougher job than the head gaskets.....and can leak into as well as out of the engine.
I got the stop leak in when my front cover was a slight seapage....and it stopped that, and has kept it sealed for about 4 years now......and I have 178K miles on my '96.
I have pictures posted of several of my projects that may or may not be of help to you in repair projects.
I find that repair manuals are great....but never seem to have enough pictures.
Also, as per FORD, the head gasket and the lower intake manifold gaskets MUST be dry fitted. So resist the urge to add any sealants to them.
The addition of sealants to the head gasket may lead to failure as the block is iron and the head is alluminum.
Another note....use ONLY sensor safe sealants where called for....on the bolts, and on the corners of the "end seals" for the lower intake manifold gaskets.
When you start it up.....really keep an eye on the temperature gauge, as there will still be some air in there. It is possible for an air bubble to cause the coolant to not flow correctly when the thermostat opens up.....causing the temperature to go up.....
You can shut the engine down if the temp goes up too high (before damage), eventually, the air lock will come out.
Keep an eye on the coolant level and add as needed as the air works its way out.
Also, after running, you might (when the engine is cool) remove the radiator cap to make sure that there is not a big air bubble sitting on top of the radiator, keeping the overflow bottle out of the loop.
Really check to make sure that the cap is holding pressure.....mine needed replacement.
Also.....double check that the cap can seal.....a little dirt on the sealing surface can prevent it from holding pressure.
aslan.de
12-31-2006, 09:03 AM
We spend a good portion of the day yesterday working on re-assembling the engine. The gaskets are dry mounted as wiswind noted. They aren't FORD, they are Felpro, which came recommended.
We still have to put the alternator back, run the drive belt (NOT looking forward to that) reassemble the throttle/throttle body and connect a few other loose ends here and there. The shop we are working in won't open again until Wednesday, so I'll be taking at least part of the day off to work on it. I have oil and a new filter for an oil change and a gallon of prestone to get us started on the coolant. Power steering fluid could be a problem since we haven't located anything suitable yet. Good note on the coolant, wiswind, I hadn't thought about the hardness of the water. Around here, it is VERY hard water. So much so that most Americans spend the extra money on bottled water from Culligan, some of which has flouride (which the Germans don't add to their water). The water has been known to cause health problems to those who aren't used to it, mainly in the form of kidney stones if my memory serves me correctly. Thus, I might have to invest in some water for the engine and may have to look to see what else I can get besides Prestone.
It will be very scary when we finally get to a point where we restart the engine for the first time. I'm half expecting that we will find that the original problem noted by the computer will still be present. If it is, the only thing I think it could possibly be is a computer malfunction in the form of the signal being sent to the fuel injector. This happened before to this vehicle. At least the repairs were necessary (given what we found when we pulled the heads) and we found the previous repair from cylinder 6 and I think I can mimic it in cylinder 5. I'm a lot more comfortable when if comes to wiring than I am when it comes to the rest of this stuff!
BTW - wiswind, interested in some misc photos of a 1995 3.8L? I have a couple that others *might* find useful similar to yours of the fuel injectors (which I looked at when ours were off). I kick myself for not taking more photos of the engine when it was apart. I found I failed to get shots of some stuff like the intake manifold which is different than anything I've seen in the Hayes manuals for the car.
We still have to put the alternator back, run the drive belt (NOT looking forward to that) reassemble the throttle/throttle body and connect a few other loose ends here and there. The shop we are working in won't open again until Wednesday, so I'll be taking at least part of the day off to work on it. I have oil and a new filter for an oil change and a gallon of prestone to get us started on the coolant. Power steering fluid could be a problem since we haven't located anything suitable yet. Good note on the coolant, wiswind, I hadn't thought about the hardness of the water. Around here, it is VERY hard water. So much so that most Americans spend the extra money on bottled water from Culligan, some of which has flouride (which the Germans don't add to their water). The water has been known to cause health problems to those who aren't used to it, mainly in the form of kidney stones if my memory serves me correctly. Thus, I might have to invest in some water for the engine and may have to look to see what else I can get besides Prestone.
It will be very scary when we finally get to a point where we restart the engine for the first time. I'm half expecting that we will find that the original problem noted by the computer will still be present. If it is, the only thing I think it could possibly be is a computer malfunction in the form of the signal being sent to the fuel injector. This happened before to this vehicle. At least the repairs were necessary (given what we found when we pulled the heads) and we found the previous repair from cylinder 6 and I think I can mimic it in cylinder 5. I'm a lot more comfortable when if comes to wiring than I am when it comes to the rest of this stuff!
BTW - wiswind, interested in some misc photos of a 1995 3.8L? I have a couple that others *might* find useful similar to yours of the fuel injectors (which I looked at when ours were off). I kick myself for not taking more photos of the engine when it was apart. I found I failed to get shots of some stuff like the intake manifold which is different than anything I've seen in the Hayes manuals for the car.
wiswind
01-01-2007, 12:20 AM
For power steering fluid...you will need to use a Type "F" Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF).
That is what FORD specifies to use.....
If you cannot find that.....a Mercon rated fluid would come close....and is used in newer windstars.
Point is, use ATF....NOT power steering fluid.
Felpro is a major brand name in gaskets, so you should be fine with them.
My '96 has a 12 quart cooling system capacity.....which would need 6 quarts of concentrated coolant for a 50/50 mix.
Also, take care to avoid getting coolant or oil, or other fluid onto the serpentine belt (the one for the alternator, water pump, etc) as is can lead to failure of the belt.....I know from experience.
There should be a diagram on the underside of the hood showing how the belt is to be placed.
Another note for the belt.....smooth pulley gets the smooth side of the belt.
Grooved pulley gets the groved side of the belt.
A 15mm wrench will fit the bolt on the tensioner pulley.....to pull it forward to release tension....and permit you to slide the belt over that last pulley......
That is what FORD specifies to use.....
If you cannot find that.....a Mercon rated fluid would come close....and is used in newer windstars.
Point is, use ATF....NOT power steering fluid.
Felpro is a major brand name in gaskets, so you should be fine with them.
My '96 has a 12 quart cooling system capacity.....which would need 6 quarts of concentrated coolant for a 50/50 mix.
Also, take care to avoid getting coolant or oil, or other fluid onto the serpentine belt (the one for the alternator, water pump, etc) as is can lead to failure of the belt.....I know from experience.
There should be a diagram on the underside of the hood showing how the belt is to be placed.
Another note for the belt.....smooth pulley gets the smooth side of the belt.
Grooved pulley gets the groved side of the belt.
A 15mm wrench will fit the bolt on the tensioner pulley.....to pull it forward to release tension....and permit you to slide the belt over that last pulley......
aslan.de
01-03-2007, 12:05 PM
Last Update (on this anyways): The engine is reassembled. We changed out the fluids (oil, coolant, power steering fluid, yes we used ATF for power steering fluid) and started her up. No change. She still ran rough, although she was no longer spitting coolant out the exaust pipe. So, we started checking wires. We ended up wiring the firing of #5 fuel injector to #1 and she "runs" fine.
This means that the root cause of all our problems was the PCM as suspected originally. I've got some friends back in the states that are going to look in a few junk yards to see if they can find a compatible computer. Still, all that work was not wasted. #3 and #2 cylinder had coolant in them and the aft head was damaged. Changing out the head gaskets solved the water in the pipe issue. Now, if I can just get the ABS light to go off (comes on occassionally despite a brake job a couple of months ago...) However, one thing at a time.
Thanks for your help wiswind.
This means that the root cause of all our problems was the PCM as suspected originally. I've got some friends back in the states that are going to look in a few junk yards to see if they can find a compatible computer. Still, all that work was not wasted. #3 and #2 cylinder had coolant in them and the aft head was damaged. Changing out the head gaskets solved the water in the pipe issue. Now, if I can just get the ABS light to go off (comes on occassionally despite a brake job a couple of months ago...) However, one thing at a time.
Thanks for your help wiswind.
wiswind
01-03-2007, 07:57 PM
Try searching on ebay.....on the USA site.
I have noticed that some junk yards have ebay stores....and list items on ebay.
You will most likely find one on ebay....just a matter of finding a seller that ships to your location....which I would think you would be able to find one that does.
Make sure to get the correct unit......for a 1996 Windstar with the 3.8L engine.
I have had good luck with this FORD dealer in Seattle Washington, USA.....don't know if they ship overseas or not....but they discount their parts online, and have been great to deal with.....they give you the option to put your VIN in your order so that they are sure to set you up with the correct part.
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=214072
They call it ECM (Engine Control Module) under electrical, powertrain control.
List price 307.51
Their price 239.86
Core price 100.00
You could send them an email (they have a link on their site) and tell them where you are.....and your VIN....and they may be able to make sure that you get the correct one......just in case they used a different one for export to your country.
Each country has it's own unique requirements......so it pays to be sure that you get the correct one.
Very likely it will be the same as the USA......but even in the USA....you will see that there is a different ECM for the state of California.
ABS light.....first thing to check would be the brake fluid level in the master cylinder.....the low fluid level trip is super sensitive.....and will light the ABS light. Make sure that it is full.....to the TOP part of the full line.
That is the easiest thing to do....from there....would be wheel sensors.....sometimes the sensor can be bumped just a bit far from the teeth of the gears of the exciter ring.....particularly the rear wheels.
Also....make sure that all the brake dust and crud is flushed out of the gear like exciter ring.......use brake cleaner.
I have noticed that some junk yards have ebay stores....and list items on ebay.
You will most likely find one on ebay....just a matter of finding a seller that ships to your location....which I would think you would be able to find one that does.
Make sure to get the correct unit......for a 1996 Windstar with the 3.8L engine.
I have had good luck with this FORD dealer in Seattle Washington, USA.....don't know if they ship overseas or not....but they discount their parts online, and have been great to deal with.....they give you the option to put your VIN in your order so that they are sure to set you up with the correct part.
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=214072
They call it ECM (Engine Control Module) under electrical, powertrain control.
List price 307.51
Their price 239.86
Core price 100.00
You could send them an email (they have a link on their site) and tell them where you are.....and your VIN....and they may be able to make sure that you get the correct one......just in case they used a different one for export to your country.
Each country has it's own unique requirements......so it pays to be sure that you get the correct one.
Very likely it will be the same as the USA......but even in the USA....you will see that there is a different ECM for the state of California.
ABS light.....first thing to check would be the brake fluid level in the master cylinder.....the low fluid level trip is super sensitive.....and will light the ABS light. Make sure that it is full.....to the TOP part of the full line.
That is the easiest thing to do....from there....would be wheel sensors.....sometimes the sensor can be bumped just a bit far from the teeth of the gears of the exciter ring.....particularly the rear wheels.
Also....make sure that all the brake dust and crud is flushed out of the gear like exciter ring.......use brake cleaner.
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