What is the plan?

The law of averages says somebody will want to take a crack at the following question;

Where do you see human kind in 10,000 years?

If one were to site history as an example and use the "history repeats itself" theorum, I wouldnt be satisfied...

we will probobly have our conciousness up-loaded into machines where we will roam freely throughout time and space. there will probably also be some kind of collective conciousness, like the internet, where minds car meet in a virtual world taking whatever form we please to socialize and what not.

either that or we will be destroyed.

10000 years is too far away for anyone to come up with any realistic predictions. Anything could happen in that long of a time span - maybe dinosaurs will come back...or maybe earth will be populated by extraterrestrials? To try to predict that far into the future invites wild conjecture from math professors and trekkies alike.

we will be destroyed.

Sadly that's the only prediction that doesn't require a fantastic imagination to conceive.

in 10,000 years we will have destroyed this planet and moved on to ruin another. I also predict fully intelligent cybernetic organisms (yes, cyborgs) outnumbering us.

So my vision of the future is somewhere between Total Recall and the beginning scene from Terminator 2

that's a realy vague question. do you mean where will humankind be moraly, physicaly, or technologicaly?

that's a realy vague question. do you mean where will humankind be moraly, physicaly, or technologicaly?
Blakscorpion21 really covered all three. You can choose which ever you might concieve easiest.

Gohan Ryu... as you read the question I asked, did you not imagine one possible scenerio? 10,000 years is hardly a long time. Dinosaurs roamed around the earth for millions of years. You should be able to come up with at least one idea.

Primarily, I'm looking for that one answer which is formed around a vast array of variables, like Blakscorpion21s'. His theory involves technology intertwined with our instinctive need for exploration, interaction, and continuance.

This is a topic that has been asked everyday since humankind could ask it, because a new ten thousand years starts everyday. If it still seems like to long, study ancient Eygpt. Theres a more than a few thousand years ago right there.

This will be pretty vague, but my thoughts are as follows...
Since everything in our known universe acts in a similar manner, we might be able to predict what we will do by looking at the very nature of things around us.
No matter what, our primary goal is to consume energy. In what form we do it is dependant on our environment. We will definately evolve physically, and most likely it will be by intentional and unintentional means. By unintentional I mean by the foods we eat, and the chemical environment we create. By intentional, I refer to the manipulation of the human genome.
However difficult to imagine, I believe it will be possible to look back in time, and travel through time as well. I think that human beings in ten thousand years can potentially still remain in similar to present form, except for those genetically altered beings which we create for specific purposes.
Will there not always be a certain nostalgia associated with our present form? Much like the collector of outdated automotive technology, I think there will be a place for our particular genetic code because collecting is in our psychological bag of tricks.
I think we will be aware of our contacts with those beyond our own solar system, as certainly our galaxy is large enough to contain the same variables neccesary for our conception.
I believe all of these things because of mathematics. You can start at number 1, and keep counting, and never stop. Ever. That alone means that there are infinite physical possibilities as well, since everything is similar.

One idea; seeing back in time. Look at my text here. It is on the screen, but it is light reflected to your eye. Follow me now, because this gets good.
Look in a telescope and if you look far enough, your seeing images of things as they were tens of thousands of light years ago. By the time the light reaches us, an entirely new history has taken place. we are viewing re-runs... essentially.
So, light bends around strong gravity. It is therfore possible that given the right refraction variables, we might one day view the reflection of our own history. How do you like those fucking apples. Also entirely possible because it wouldnt be difficult to plot the course of light and predict its behaviour around known stimuli of directional change. Of course, a little more sppace is being mapped out everyday.
I'm sorry about this long post, but lets be realistic... this is the philosophy forum. I promise to read anyone though, and provide feedback.

yea, i think that genetically modified humans are far nearer in our future than 10,000 years. this technology is upon us now. after you create the perfect biological human, the only way to go is to mechanical form. the first steps will probably be human machine hybrids or cyborgs if you will. first we will have chips put in our brains to increase our cognitive abilities, then maybe other mechanical objects to maintain our vital functions so we can live longer, although this could be done genetically as well. technically there is no reason why we cant live indefinitley. the main factor is the shortening of the telomeres(end of the dna strand) after every replication. there is a small section that is used to attach the primer and this primer falls off which leaves naked dna which is removed. there is a molecule called telomerase which can repair this but is only found in embryos and cancer cells. any ways, after biology has taken the body as far as it can go we will have to look to technology to advance any farther.

as far as time travel. i think this will be one of our last advances. technically time is like a 4th dimension. we can travel freely through the 1st 3 dimensions but not the 4th. eventually we will figure it out. it seems unfathomable now, but 10,000 years ago the computer would have been unfathomable as well.

as far as time travel. i think this will be one of our last advances. technically time is like a 4th dimension. we can travel freely through the 1st 3 dimensions but not the 4th. eventually we will figure it out. it seems unfathomable now, but 10,000 years ago the computer would have been unfathomable as well.

I can see how it would be possible to look back in time... but as far as being able to advance in time, or go back in time to interact with a physical world... thats a concept that begs me to dismiss it as impossible. I can't though. The number one rule of science in to always leave that 1% open to ideas.
Honestly though, I have heard of things about how space bends, and that if a distance between two points is 10,000 light years, the gap could be bridged by finding the "wormhole", which is refering to the bending of space-time to bridge that gap.
If persons left earth on a continuous trip, and genrations later they're ansestors reached the destination, and you left and entered a wormhole for the same destination, you would be meeting with the ansestors of those travelers. In space, shit is so far away that your likely to have children and grandchildren before you get to where your going.
Now if you go back to earth... yeah... im lost already. Time travel would be something else, thats for sure.

yea, i dont quite have enough knowledge of physics to wrap my head around this stuff.

One idea; seeing back in time. Look at my text here. It is on the screen, but it is light reflected to your eye. Follow me now, because this gets good.
Look in a telescope and if you look far enough, your seeing images of things as they were tens of thousands of light years ago. By the time the light reaches us, an entirely new history has taken place. we are viewing re-runs... essentially.
So, light bends around strong gravity. It is therfore possible that given the right refraction variables, we might one day view the reflection of our own history. How do you like those fucking apples. Also entirely possible because it wouldnt be difficult to plot the course of light and predict its behaviour around known stimuli of directional change. Of course, a little more sppace is being mapped out everyday.
I'm sorry about this long post, but lets be realistic... this is the philosophy forum. I promise to read anyone though, and provide feedback.

What have you been smoking..

But seriously, i understand you. But my prediction is that we will self destruct before we hit the 10000 year mark. Just look at the history of civilised man, the duration of our existence is a small fraction compared to the (assumed to be true) estimated age of this planet, but the destruction left in our wake has left the planet's condition so much shittier. Really, when i look at the big picture, i dont see man thriving anytime around the 10000 year mark.

....What have you been smoking..

....i dont see man thriving anytime around the 10000 year mark.

Your not really that far off in your assumtion. Really the problem is that while we do have so much potential to survive and evolve, we are essentially fucked in the head... this describes a vast majority anyways, including myself. I'd be just fine if they'd give me a brain chip and a bionic dick though.

...I'd be just fine if they'd give me a brain chip and a bionic dick though.
some of us have already been fitted with the latter :sunglasse

70% of the respondents to this AF poll said humans won't make it to 10,000 years. If you pay even casual attention to the news it's easy to agree.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=419561

How do we break this down? I mean 10,000 years is a long, long time.

Culture and Society

Lets start simple, where were we 10,000 years ago? Our very first cultures were coming around. The human society was in its earliest of infant stages.

What cultures have come and gone?

Egyptians
Greeks
Romans
Pursians
Babylons
Aztecs

Those are just to name a few. Several of those still have an impact on our modern day society. Now in a way those people are still around, but the culture and society is dead and in some instances, lost.

What cultures will be able to survive for 10,000 years? The Chinease have survived for 5,000 and are the oldest culture. Will they go on for 15,000 years?

How will students learn about us in 10,000 years? Will the culture of "Americans" still be around? Or will they read about us and how our political correctness and politics brought an end to us? I guess we ultimately decide that.

Technology

Well 10,000 years ago we were still in the Stone Age. We evolved though into the Bronze Age, Iron Age, and now we're in a very high technological age.

I know for sure that if we're still around, we'll definatly have colonies on other planets. Mars could the next Earth with the Moon being our jump base. Our ships dock there and then jump to where they want to go in the galaxy.

Also, yes, I think we'll solve the problem of light speed travel.

Now somebody said we'll learn how to time travel. Sorry, it can't happen. Our time goes and goes and goes. Our lives are like a movie that go and go. Who holds the remote that freezes all of the atoms into place and reverses the paths they took for thousands of years?
We can travel forwards in time some but that's about it. Besides that theory ties in with light speed travel and it's still just a theory. We have no way at all to test it.

I think a technology we'll have by then is atom arranging. We'll be able to take dead material like a rock and if the elements are there turn it into water, food, fuel, ect.

Lets not forget computers and robotics. Nano technology will probably help us look at and find cures for fight cancer, AIDS, and other deadly diseases.

Finally I think we'll figure out fusion and won't rely on natural resources much and will be able to colonize places faster and reduce pollution and have a nice clean energy.

War and Difference

This is probably the only thing that is holding us back. If we could, which I don't think we can, eliminate this then we could move forward together with all of our technological might and resources.

It was shown in World War 2 that one atomic bomb could cause as many casualties for one side as the other side got the entire war.

As technology gets better, so do our ways to kill ourselves. I mean if, more like when, we are able to get fusion reaction, what's to stop the making of fusion bombs? I mean if you plan it right, a person could make a fusion reaction get out of control and engulf the entire world.

Also, our differences, that lead to war. We still have the same problems they had 10,000 years ago, everybody wants power. Whether it's land, economic strength, military strength, religion, or whatever, we fight.

I mean hell if we can travel freely across the galaxy, if several Earth factions exist, we'll still probably fight over something. Space has no end that we can tell and we'd still probably find a way to blow up an entire planet and its population just so somebody else can't have it.

Conclusion

In 10,000 years man will still be around.

My theory is a country, or countries, will find a way to break loose and colonize on Mars, the Moon, and possibly Venus. I know the acid but with a force field to keep a base safe and filters to turn the gases into oxygen and stuff it could be done but it'd take a while.

With these bases on a couple of worlds we can move around the solar system gathering minerals and other things needed to take the next step: breaking loose of our solar system and moving outwards.

Anyway, these factions will leave Earth and will start the very early stages of human civilization in space. In 10,000 years we will have evolved to become a small galactic civilization. Not many worlds but we'll have some to have a nice spot of our own.

Any major wars or viruses we encounter will be unable to affect all of us and even though the masses may die, the race will still live on and survive.

Until that time though, even an atomic war or outbreak of another bubonic plague won't kill us all. Even though we like to kill each other and destroy ourselves, we also have this "human spirit" which we can't deny. We have a will to survive and move on and this has shown itself in history. It is this will ultimatly show that at least one human survives 10,000 years from now.

Even though we like to kill each other and destroy ourselves, we also have this "human spirit" which we can't deny.

That was a great responce. The part about us gathering minerals and other thigns we need reminds me of movies in which we are invaded by aliens looking to gather minerals for what they need.

On time travel...or something like that...If atom arranging is possible, then certainly atom arranging can be applied to reproducing what was, although in the sence you mean, the future of that manifestation would not effect your present. It would be interesting to see though if all the lifeforms would react the exact same way they did. I imagine that in the case of human beings, since you would be reproducing everything down to the same nueral networks, whatever disposition people had would be the exact same, meaning they would make the same chocies. It would actuallybe kind of boring/holodeck type stuff. Thanks for mentioning that though, I never concidered that as a technology of the future.

On your point about human nature, I can't agree more. Unfortunately, if we were to zap out this part of ourselves, we might zap out the very thing that has gotten us to where we are... the very thing that makes us human. Is the ego needed? Thats another thread on its own.
It sounds as if you have given these things conciderable thought over the course of your lifetime so far. Was very interesting. I bash my knuckles everyday on cars, scratch my nuts, and enjoy farting as loud as I can... but I feel good to knowing that I can collaborate on a more intelectual level; regardles of me speeling abilitys and social standing. Perhaps it's the "human spirit" that requires me to seek answers.

Well after seeing the "Inconvenient Truth (http://www.climatecrisis.net/)" I'd say we may not be around in 1000 years , let alone 10k years.

How do we break this down? I mean 10,000 years is a long, long time.

Culture and Society

Lets start simple, where were we 10,000 years ago? Our very first cultures were coming around. The human society was in its earliest of infant stages.

What cultures have come and gone?

Egyptians
Greeks
Romans
Pursians
Babylons
Aztecs

Those are just to name a few. Several of those still have an impact on our modern day society. Now in a way those people are still around, but the culture and society is dead and in some instances, lost.

What cultures will be able to survive for 10,000 years? The Chinease have survived for 5,000 and are the oldest culture. Will they go on for 15,000 years?

How will students learn about us in 10,000 years? Will the culture of "Americans" still be around? Or will they read about us and how our political correctness and politics brought an end to us? I guess we ultimately decide that.


alot of those civilizations are gone but their culture lives on through us. look at many u.s. capital buildings, greek temple style. look at our government, roman representative style. look at our attractions, roman colossium and theater style. almost everything we have now either origionated in Greece or rome.

will the u.s. be around in 10k years? of course not, but the impact of our soceity will be. i think some time in the next hundred to 200 years there will be basically a global government, origionating from the likes of the european union and such.

Technology

Well 10,000 years ago we were still in the Stone Age. We evolved though into the Bronze Age, Iron Age, and now we're in a very high technological age.

I know for sure that if we're still around, we'll definatly have colonies on other planets. Mars could the next Earth with the Moon being our jump base. Our ships dock there and then jump to where they want to go in the galaxy.

Also, yes, I think we'll solve the problem of light speed travel.

Now somebody said we'll learn how to time travel. Sorry, it can't happen. Our time goes and goes and goes. Our lives are like a movie that go and go. Who holds the remote that freezes all of the atoms into place and reverses the paths they took for thousands of years?
We can travel forwards in time some but that's about it. Besides that theory ties in with light speed travel and it's still just a theory. We have no way at all to test it.

I think a technology we'll have by then is atom arranging. We'll be able to take dead material like a rock and if the elements are there turn it into water, food, fuel, ect.

Lets not forget computers and robotics. Nano technology will probably help us look at and find cures for fight cancer, AIDS, and other deadly diseases.

Finally I think we'll figure out fusion and won't rely on natural resources much and will be able to colonize places faster and reduce pollution and have a nice clean energy.



its hard to say anything about time travel with such a limited knowledge as ours. but time is the 4th dimension. all we have to do is learn to navigate it. esentially it would be no harder to do than travel at beyond light speed. with all modern theories we have now, beyond light speed travel is impossible. einstein said that esentially to travel at light speed you need infinite energy.

human disease will be far far behind us at this point through genetic manipulation.

and as far as fusion, fusion isnt too far out of grasp as it is. the real future is in anti-matter/matter reactions, or perhaps an unknown sorce of energy we have no idea even exists. by this time we will be tapping power from stars and black holes, and possible quasars.




War and Difference

This is probably the only thing that is holding us back. If we could, which I don't think we can, eliminate this then we could move forward together with all of our technological might and resources.

It was shown in World War 2 that one atomic bomb could cause as many casualties for one side as the other side got the entire war.

As technology gets better, so do our ways to kill ourselves. I mean if, more like when, we are able to get fusion reaction, what's to stop the making of fusion bombs? I mean if you plan it right, a person could make a fusion reaction get out of control and engulf the entire world.

Also, our differences, that lead to war. We still have the same problems they had 10,000 years ago, everybody wants power. Whether it's land, economic strength, military strength, religion, or whatever, we fight.

I mean hell if we can travel freely across the galaxy, if several Earth factions exist, we'll still probably fight over something. Space has no end that we can tell and we'd still probably find a way to blow up an entire planet and its population just so somebody else can't have it.


i have no doubt that war will remain to some extent, or rather some sort of hostility. it is in our nature to out compete each other for resources. it cant be totally reversed no matter how advanced we become. but with new technology and no money as well as essential resources being easy to obtain, this hostility will be greatly reduced.

Conclusion

In 10,000 years man will still be around.

My theory is a country, or countries, will find a way to break loose and colonize on Mars, the Moon, and possibly Venus. I know the acid but with a force field to keep a base safe and filters to turn the gases into oxygen and stuff it could be done but it'd take a while.

With these bases on a couple of worlds we can move around the solar system gathering minerals and other things needed to take the next step: breaking loose of our solar system and moving outwards.

Anyway, these factions will leave Earth and will start the very early stages of human civilization in space. In 10,000 years we will have evolved to become a small galactic civilization. Not many worlds but we'll have some to have a nice spot of our own.

Any major wars or viruses we encounter will be unable to affect all of us and even though the masses may die, the race will still live on and survive.

Until that time though, even an atomic war or outbreak of another bubonic plague won't kill us all. Even though we like to kill each other and destroy ourselves, we also have this "human spirit" which we can't deny. We have a will to survive and move on and this has shown itself in history. It is this will ultimatly show that at least one human survives 10,000 years from now.


i agree with your ideas but i think the future you speak of is in 1000 and not 10000 years.

alot of those civilizations are gone but their culture lives on through us. look at many u.s. capital buildings, greek temple style. look at our government, roman representative style. look at our attractions, roman colossium and theater style. almost everything we have now either origionated in Greece or rome.

True but they are dead. I mean will still incorporate some of their stuff into our own but they are dead. There is nothing there to advance their ideas. All we can do is take what they taught and try to guess how they would feel.

will the u.s. be around in 10k years? of course not, but the impact of our soceity will be. i think some time in the next hundred to 200 years there will be basically a global government, origionating from the likes of the european union and such.

I have to disagree. I don't think a global government could happen for some time. Maybe 300 years at the earliest but I don't see a unified government for probably 500 years. Something like that would have to gain a foothold and slowly spread across the planet. As it is, I don't see the U.S. joining the European Union for some time.

its hard to say anything about time travel with such a limited knowledge as ours. but time is the 4th dimension. all we have to do is learn to navigate it. esentially it would be no harder to do than travel at beyond light speed. with all modern theories we have now, beyond light speed travel is impossible. einstein said that esentially to travel at light speed you need infinite energy.

Light travels at 670,616,629.384 miles per hour. When it's looked at it this way it seems simpler. I mean if you're traveling 670,616,628 mph, you're still hauling ass. But for some reason though you can't add a little bit to it? I don't buy it.

The challenge I see is creating the energy needed to get there.

human disease will be far far behind us at this point through genetic manipulation.

That could be a huge debate. Some company may claim it can pick your child's hair and eye color through genetic manipulation. Is that right? Who knows. We probably won't be around then.

and as far as fusion, fusion isnt too far out of grasp as it is. the real future is in anti-matter/matter reactions, or perhaps an unknown sorce of energy we have no idea even exists. by this time we will be tapping power from stars and black holes, and possible quasars.

I saw this on Discovery channel about there being three classes of space civilizations.

Class 1
Pretty much what we see in Star Treck. Ships can transport people and things from place to place but that's about it. Still rely on the resources of the planet to survive there.

Class 2
Between classes one and three. Being able to tap some into some of the natural energies we find in the universe. When it comes to traveling though it still must obey some of the basic laws of light and gravity.

Class 3
Nothing is out of reach. Whatever we can think of that's possible this civilization could create it. The power of the sun and stars is at their control. They're able to transform the elements on how best to suit them. The laws of gravity and light can be bent or broken by them. A type of instant teleportation from point to point in the universe could be done for travel. It was also suggested that time travel could be real at this point.

As we are right now, we haven't even entered a Class 1 civilization.

i have no doubt that war will remain to some extent, or rather some sort of hostility. it is in our nature to out compete each other for resources. it cant be totally reversed no matter how advanced we become. but with new technology and no money as well as essential resources being easy to obtain, this hostility will be greatly reduced.

I don't think that is so. Reduced but not greatly reduced. There will always be a fight over land or in this case planets with who has the right to do whatever to it. Also their is religions and ideas. I also believe money can't go away. We could reduce it or help make a system but it can't go away. People who work hard want to be rewarded. This whold Star Treck "we work to better ourselves" is bullshit. Go out and ask people that, they won't tell you they work for the better of mankind.

i agree with your ideas but i think the future you speak of is in 1000 and not 10000 years.

I think it'll take us close to 1000 years to freely roam the solar system. As I said, first we'll set up a base on the Moon and use it to jump to Mars. Once we have two established bases we must look on. We have two big ass gas giants outside of the asteroid belt. We could set up huge hovering disk that do nothing more than magnetically suck up the gas, break it down, and bottle it for ships to carry it to wherever to be processed. We could have huge ships that are nothing more than processing stations. They go out in the asteroid belt or just float around picking up bits of rock. They could use small worker ships to bring it in to the main ship to break it down and package it to be sent where it needs to go. I also think we'll try to build at least a base on every planet that we can. If we're able to build a base on Mercury that withstands the extreme hot and cold temperatures then we can feel confident to explore space and set up colonies almost anywhere.

Anyway, to have bases and colonies throughout the solar system with the ability to gain the resources we need from anywhere in it will take close to 1000 years in itself I think. To freely roam our section of the galaxy will take some time.

It sounds as if you have given these things conciderable thought over the course of your lifetime so far.

Eh, I saw the thread a couple of days ago and started to think of an answer. Although I will admit I have sat and thought about us in several thousand years. How the future will be totally different than what anybody will probably expect.

Was very interesting.

Thanks.

Well after seeing the "Inconvenient Truth" I'd say we may not be around in 1000 years , let alone 10k years.

Oh please, changes in the weather are not going to kill us...

Hi I'm actor Troy Mcclure! You may remember me from such educational films as "Lead Paint: Delicious But Deadly" and "Firecrackers: The Silent Killer". Today we'll be talking about...

Man vs. Nature: The Road to Victory

Oh please, changes in the weather are not going to kill us...

Hi I'm actor Troy Mcclure! You may remember me from such educational films as "Lead Paint: Delicious But Deadly" and "Firecrackers: The Silent Killer". Today we'll be talking about...

Man vs. Nature: The Road to Victory


Oh I beg to differ!
Man may have lived through the last Ice age,
but I highly doubt very many will on the next one.
It will happen before we know it, almost overnight.

Thiers 1000X more CO2 in the atmosphere then ever before in the planets recorded history.

These are all FACTs founded from real evidence from Glacier samples from 100,000 years ago(or more), rock samples from the same.
They even checked back over 600,000 years and our planets CO2 level is out of control.

I dare you all to rent Al Gores Documentary "Inconvenient Truth" :thumbsup:

IMO First we'll get cooked from gloablwarming,
then the deap freeze for the next Millennium or two.

The End is near :grinyes:

Oh I beg to differ!
Man may have lived through the last Ice age,
but I highly doubt very many will on the next one.
It will happen before we know it, almost overnight.

Thiers 1000X more CO2 in the atmosphere then ever before in the planets recorded history.

These are all FACTs founded from real evidence from Glacier samples from 100,000 years ago(or more), rock samples from the same.
They even checked back over 600,000 years and our planets CO2 level is out of control.

I dare you all to rent Al Gores Documentary "Inconvenient Truth" :thumbsup:

IMO First we'll get cooked from gloablwarming,
then the deap freeze for the next Millennium or two.

The End is near :grinyes:

Thank God somebody else saw it... now you see why I mentioned it in the first place in my other thread. Assuming this scientific fact were true, we are definately fucked. All that needs to happen is simply this:

A large pool forms on Greenland... dam effect occurs... dam breaks, cool dence fresh water floods north eastern pacific... ocean conveyor stops... things get real cold.

Physically, we will be gone. Thus, there is no moral or technological argument to follow. As a race, we will die off. And, yes, historically proven!!!!!! It is supercilious to believe that homo sapiens are so far up the chain that this specie will maintain itself that long.

Although, bugs have maintained themselves for thousands of years.

So will roaches dominate the earth in the end? They'll have plenty of twinkies to feed on :biggrin:

Fossiles.

Seriously though, Global warming is drasticaly overhyped. While some research says that we are causing global warming, other research says that global warming occurs naturally in a cycle. It may also be a good thing as we are actually "overdue" for an ice age, and another phenomena called global dimming (also caused by pollution) is actually decreasing the amount of sunlight reaching earth's surface. The average temperature of the earth went up 1.8 degrees (about the same affect global warming has every 100 years) during the three days after 9/11 when the US air fleet was grounded and not creating the partical pollution needed for global dimming. Plus we are adaptable. The climate changes are slow enough for us to develop technologies to help us adapt or we genetically adapt as a species.