Is this a real issue????

Hello,

I have a 2000 ford windstar...last month the engine light came on and I took the van in...they said it was the control linkage...got it fixed...(ouch)...
Well last week the light came on again...
took it in...was told it was the o2 sensors and main air...front o2s running lean...that they needed replaced...had it done today was so blown out of the water with the whole situation I didnt even think about second guessing it till now...:eek:

BUT then I started to think about it this evening and wondered if we just paid out a chunk of change :2cents: for something that they arent certain about (he said it came up the same codes as last time-if that was the case then how come they didnt fix it last time?)
Started doing a little research tonight and from what i am gathering this is probably not the case? probably a vacumm leak??? So now Im frustrated (and a little panicked we didnt have the money in the first place...now what are we going to do if the light comes back on again), and leaving this post to ask...if this is really legit? or did we get taken for a LOT of money:banghead: ...and what now???
I think i have gathered that I need to ask
1) for the codes,
2)ask about vacumm
3) and about them saying it was the same codes why didnt they fix it last time
4)what deal they are going to give me if the light comes back on....
is there anything else???

There are almost 60,000 miles on it, had them do the tune up while it was there in the shop. we are always prompt on oil changes ect...
any advice out there...
or encouragement???

-justamom

First off, who did the work? If it was a Ford dealer, then you definitely got hosed. It sounds like you have the typical PO 171/174 lean codes that are extremely common with your vehicle. Do a search on this forum and check it out. A common mistake uninformed mechanics make is to blame the O2 sensors and change them when they are NOT the cause. THe O2 sensors rarely go bad and are indicating a different problem in the intake manifold.

So what do you do? It seems as though your light will eventually come back on if in fact you have the previously mentioned problem. When it does, take it to an autoparts store like Autozone or Advance Auto and ask them to read your codes. They will do it for free and it only takes a minute. When they read the codes, make them tell you the exact numbers and write them down, if you don't, they will not tell you and then they will try to sell you O2 sensors. When you get the codes, reply back to this forum and someone will help you immediately. My guess is that they will be PO 171/174 which could be as simple as a leaking vacuum hose or the more involved manifold repair.

If the dealer did your previous work, I would think you would be entitled to your money back because this is a problem that has been recognized by Ford and communicated to the dealers through a technical service bulliten (TSB). If a private garage did the work, then they didn't do their homework and are searching in the dark for your root cause and at your expense. I would drop them and go to someone else while using this forum as a guide to common problems with your Windstar. The problems with the Windstar seem to be shared amongst all owners, and this forum provides a place to learn from other people's experiences. Good Luck!

If the engine light comes on again.Take it to Auto Zone they will pull them for free and post the number code or codes on here. They may tell you it is a O2 sensor. Ask them to give you the code. Also I hear some Advanced Autos are pulling codes now. The main issue on the Windstar is the 171-174 code which is a vacuum leak from the upper intake area and a 150.00 bucks parts fix some are cheaper depends on were you live. If the dealer does the work it can cost 600.00 to 1,000 bucks mine dealer wanted about 600.00 I did it all with parts myself plus a new upper intake plenum for around 200.00 or so have to fine my receipts. The 2 main items were the isolator bolts and port seals. Around 80.00 for a package of 8 and 20.00 for the port seals. There are a number of post on here about the issue and my price I paid for the work I did my self. Hope this helps and post the back if your codes come back. Do your homework here and if you need too take to the shop to fix the true problem. Buy the parts you need at the dealer and tell the machanic to replce them ask for the old parts back to make sure they did the job.If this were the case your new isolater bolts will be green the old ones will be black..

Expert Tire is who did the work on the windstar. I have the codes, and what he wrote down...
" po171 system too lean (bank 1)
po174 system too lean (bank 2)
-----
Both front O2 sensors byns lean
maf sensor glitching showwing intermintant load at idle
-----
rec: replacement of both front O2 sensors & mass air flow sensor

I talked to the guy about it a bit before I left asking about the vacumm and he said that it wasnt anything to do with vacumm they are very thourough in there diagnosic...I explained that I didnt want to see that check engine light on again...grrrr
So from what you are saying...it probably wasnt the stuff that just got done?!...that is royally a bummer cause we have no money left to fix anything else we are completely tapped...that is that last thing we need right now...
I should have asked to see the parts too...huh...spaced that one.
I guess it is a waiting game till the light comes on again? Maybe it wont?
Will try to read what I can on the forum posts...I dont have a lot of time (three young kiddos) that is why i posted, was for a direct answer.
Thank you for taking the time to reply...
I honestly am sitting here unsure what to do next...

My guess is that the light will come back again. The O2 sensors are just that "sensors" they do not cause a lean condition. And it is highly unlikely that both sensors would go bad at the same time. I am convinced that you have the infamous isolator bolt defect which stems from a poorly designed valve cover and rubber seals. I would get a hold of the TSB from Ford and take it back to Expert Tire when your light come back on and you get the same codes. In fact, I would be proactive and take the TSB in before the light comes on and try and make them commit to giving you a refund. I believe the TSB actually says that the O2 Sensors or the MAF sensor should not be changed as they are frequently misdiagnosed.

Go to this site: http://www.leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html. This is a detailed explanation of the fix and if you scroll down the webpage the TSB is printed here as well.

No. They just dont know about the TSB

Thank you for all your replies, the light has not come back on yet however i havent been driving much of late!
My daughter has been really sick and I am sorry it took so long to reply.
Thank you for the link, you are right excellant link, and it doesnt look too difficult!
I appreciate you help..
and will update here soon.
J.

Unbelievable. Another case of replacing a bunch of ($$$) sensors, while these sensors are doing nothing more than their job of alerting you of an issue. Justamom, like the other owners say, this is the classic leaky isolator bolt(s) problem. Like pitteach suggested, If you or a family member cannot do the work, take this to a trusted independant auto tech: http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html That 'control linkage' thing that tire shop replaced for you was probably the a jambed bushing on the intake manifold runner control (IMRC). That's fairly common. It's a shame as replacing the MAF and O2 sensors was a complete waste of good parts and your money! Always refer to this fine forum before you pursue any winny issues!

Joel