T28 w/ tub. manifold vs. hahn super 16G

Well if you have been reading my other threads you know I'm thinking of getting into drag racing so I want to get rid of the stock turbo, but I dont need something thats huge and unreliable. I'm looking for a quick spooling turbo b/c the strip's only 1/8mi. My goal is about 300hp. with the least amount of mods possible and I dont plan on booting past 20psi..
Hahn Super 16G ($700)
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/hahn/parts/s16g.htm

Garrett T28
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Garrett-T28-Turbo-Charger-Eclipse-Talon-N-R_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ015QQitemZ2 50047521281QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Manifold that I would get for the T28
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-99-Mitsubishi-Eclipse-Talon-TURBO-Exhaust-Header_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33631QQihZ013QQi temZ230048343535QQrdZ1

Tubular manifolds are wasted money at 300 hp. The t28 would be nice because its a direct bolt on, but they cost so much that I would just get a 16g and install kit. Get yourself a Big 16g, solid 300 hp turbo IMO and much cheaper than either of those. Note the Hahn turbo is a t3 flange.

^Oh, I forgot the hahn also comes with a manifold at no extra cost.
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/hahn/parts/High%20Flow%20Manifold.htm

Evo III FTW

You have pretty much the same mods i do right now. I came here with the intentions of a t28, but was sold on the evo3 16G even quicker. I have a t25 at the moment and of course we all find out thats too slow. From what ive read for a few hundred dollars less and a few hours more you can convert this garrett setup to a mitsu setup with the potential for upward towards 400hp. You're going to have to do the same upgrades (550 injectors, 190lb fuel pump, AFC etc.) as you would with a evo3, so why not go bigger. Any Hp you accomplish you will get tired of it eventually. At least with the EVO3 you will have the potential to make a little more power until deciding ona bigger turbo. Anyway thats the conclusion ive come to after a months research on both products. I would just rather buy the EVO rather than the t28 and getting bored with it and switching to evo anyway.

with the evo III you'll need at least 680cc's and link

Not to be giving out false info or knockin people with more experience but i thought 550 were good to 400 hp and the SAFC was sufficient for this. It wouldnt be the first time i was wrong, but i was under the impression 190 fuel pump 550 injectors, data logger and SAFC were the minimum requirements for the EVO 3. If not maybe i should be looking into a smaller turbo myself seeing as i already purchased these items.

Scott's right for the most part, you'll need bigger than 550s (680s are good) but you don't *need* link. While you're upgrading, you might as well get the 255 vs. the 190, it's not that much more expensive and if you ever want to upgrade, it's one less thing to worry about. You'll be able to get the car running decently with the safc, but you won't be able to full tune, it's more of a general tune with the safc. And I also say go with the E316g

So with the 550s 190 fuel pump and SAFC Neo, and datal logger what turbo would yall suggest? Ive already ordered them so i guess theres no turning back. Unfortunately i was under the impression that those would work but i guess its better to know now than when im ready to install and tune everything. Maybe a big 16G or a big t28? I was also planning on 300-350hp.

You'll be able to run a e316g with those mods, but you run the chance of maxing out the injectors and pump, something that I would rather not run into. If you keep the boost down, you'll be just fine as long as you don't run the piss out of it.

17-20 psi is all i would be running, is that too much? I plan on keepin the IDC in the safe 90 zone give or take.

The reason I said link is because the cost of the afc neo and a logger is not much different than an eprom ecu and link. If you can I would try and return what you have and get bigger. Its not a matter of making the most hp you can, but more a matter of not having your fuel system maxed out during daily driving and giving yourself some room to work with

That does make sense, i guess just cause you can doesnt mean you should. Would 18-20 psi daily be a conservative amount, or would it be pushing it with that setup, i definately dont want to run into fuel cut? If that sounds too risky maybe i should look into a big 16G or smaller with a little less flow than the evo3. But returning all of that stuff would cost a restocking fee and some of it was bought over a month ago, so im probably just going to stick with this stuff.
Not to try to take over the original posters thread, but im learning as i go along too, so no offence.

I think I'm going with the T28 so then I don't need to really do fuel mods because I'll probably just keep the boost at 14psi (stock) because I'm just trying to build something that is a little faster than a stock or slightly moded Evo

Wont be able to do that on a t28 and 14 psi. The Evo IX turbo flows a bit better than an Evo III 16g and IIRC they are set at 16 stock.

Even with a front mount a turbo back exhaust and a tubeular manifold??

Yes, even with those mods. The only mods that are really meaning anything is the exhaust. At 14 psi on a t28, the turbo isn't really flowing enough air to need a front mount so you'd be fine with the smic, and IMO, the tubular manifold only really counts power wise when you're pushing some pretty serious numbers and you need ALL the flow you can get. :2cents:

I doubt it. More turbo on higher boost. If my calculations are right, 14b's flow ~25lbs/min maxed out and small 16g's flow ~31lbs/min maxed out. You are somewhere between those on a t28 and I just read like yesterday the new Evo IX turbos max out at like 42 lbs/min. Theres a significant airflow difference there. A stock evo is rated at what 286 hp? You'd have quite a bit to do to get that far with a T28.

What about the hahn super 16G kit? I think it comes with an adjusable internal wastegate (15-17psi), What fuel mods would I need to do because that's reason I choose the T28 in the first place. I dont want to get all those mods done then screw up my engine because I hit a wrong button on the afc. Could I just buy a new fuel pump and injectors??

New fuel pump, injectors, FPR, and a tuning device. You can't just throw a pump and injectors on without having no way of controlling them.

Speed costs money man. If you want to mess up an Evo, I think the cheapest way would be to get an Evo III 16g, a Walbro 255, aftermarket FPR, 650's, and an AFC/logger, then up the boost quite a bit. However, AFC/logger combos are far inferior to DSMlink, I would suggest that over a AFC any day.

How about this w/ the Hahn super 16G @ 17psi + FMIC:
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16346&cat=269&page=1&veh=2G%20DSM

and:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ARTQ%3AUS%3A1&viewitem=&item=140048479873

The total setup should cost somewhere around $2300 which is good because I dont really want to go over $2500

You could go on forever deciding on which combination to get. You need to decide what your plans are for the car and either you're going to fork out some cash or you're not going to and in return have a shitty setup.

i thought that afc wont work with 680cc or something like that.

I think they'll work with 650s but that's the highest you can go.

What are the differences between an maf translator and a safcII?? Wich would be easier to use?

an afc allows you to control the air/fuel ratio after you get into upgraded turbos, fuel, etc. a maf translator is used with a gm maf. you install a gm maf into the uicp(after the turbo and intercooler) and it reads the incoming air better than stock. plus you have the option to vent your bov to atmosphere. usually something like this would require dsmlink, but the translator just allows a gm part(maf) to be recognized by the mitsubishi. if the upgrades are not too major, such as a bazillion-trim turbo, you could tune the afc with these new air levels with your fuel. when you have a bigger turbo, a lot more upgrades, whatever, the afc can only control so much. thats when its time to switch to dsmlink.

The afc will work with 650cc injectors(I am running this setup) but, I would not suggest going with any bigger injectors on the afc. I have heard many times that 650cc injectors are the max for the afc.

I think I'm going to stick with the safc because it would actually be more expensive to get the maf and plus I could care less it my bov was vented to the atmosphere.

who said anything about a maft? DSMlink FTW

you still need a maf translator for dsmlink to read.

pretty much the only two reasons to get a gm maf are 1:vent bov and 2:the stock maf can only read so much air coming in, and sometimes cant handle very high boost, so it fuel cuts. some people take the honeycombs out of the maf, but sometimes get a shitty idle and other problems. they get the gm maf because it handles the higher boost, and reads air more accurately, after its gone through the turbo, through the intercooler, and right before it enters the intake. super-high boost + maft + dsmlink FTW.

Umm the stock mas can read up to around 50lbs/min which is more than most people ever run espically on a daily driver so really there is no reason to get a maft untill you are running some high numbers.

Umm the stock mas can read up to around 50lbs/min which is more than most people ever run espically on a daily driver so really there is no reason to get a maft untill you are running some high numbers.

wowzers i didnt think it could read that high. i figured like 25 psi or so. if its 50 then my bad...

not 50psi, 50lbs/min aka air flow. Figure that to be around 500hp

geez im all screwed up tonight

pr when are you gonna post pics of your car?

It'll be monday. I'm in Chi town right now so I have to drive back to MN tomorrow

So would I really need all that stuff just to make around 300hp?? Keep in mind my price range too. I don't really plan on making any more power when I buy all those parts because next would be suspension upgrades.

Personally, I think you need to do a little more reading. It sounds like you just wanna throw on some parts and go fast without knowing what they're actually for and how they work.

whaddup son ya boi grape finna tell u how dem parts werk bro... get u some nos... turn dat injekter timing a notch n u b runnin 9s yo... or get dat vtaaaak cuz den u b flyin boi w00t! ....u keep up wit dem vettez n dem STIs n a cuple lambos dawg


lol...

with the mods you have you could be close to that 300hp range. buscherracing.com has a step-by-step guide to modding your car, stage 1, 2, etc. check out that page. also check out vfaq.com for everything you need to know plus a crapload of dead links. first things you want to do though is make sure everything on your car is running well. check for boost leaks, make sure all your fluids are in good condition, timing belt, pulleys, radiator fans. when you start making power in the future, these simple maintenance fixes will save you hundreds in the future. oh and start running 93 octane. just make sure you know what your doing, ask questions, search the forums, go to all the dsm forums and read read read read read.

Tech guide in www.dsmtuners.com has a GREAT upgrade path. I suggest you take a look at that also.

upgrade path thats what i was looking for

On the buscher site it said it was only necessary to upgrade the fuel pump, but all of you have been telling me to get bigger injectors and some type of afc.

No you need to upgrade the pump too, you could *probably* get by with a 190 at low boost, but shit, why not spend the extra little bit and get the 255, it's like an insurance policy for your motor.

No...I'm asking if I NEED an afc or larger injectors because every "stage guide" said I dont need them. And yes, I would get the 225 anyway...I mean it's only like an extra $5. I dont really plan on doing any of the stage 2 mods except for a new intercooler (probably a big smic). I also still do not plan on exceding 17psi.

Yes, you will need bigger injectors and a tuning device. 16g turbo, 650 injectors, and an safc2.

Ok...but why wasnt it listed on any of the sites??

Those are some pretty general upgrade paths. You need bigger injectors if you want to flow enough for 300hp, and you need some way of controlling those injectors so they don't dump everything they can into the cylinder. You do this by way of an afc, safc, or safc2. This is why I feel you need to do a little more reading though so you can understand what these things do and exactly why you need them before you just toss them on your car.

Ok...I understand what your saying, but the only reason I dont want to do all the fuel upgrades is because I dont want to mess with all that stuff and fear of tuning it wrong or is it like the complete opposite of what I just said and if I dont do fuel upgrades then that would screw up my engine.

You are right, but only half right. You gotta see it from both sides. If you don't upgrade fuel and just throw on a turbo and crank up the boost, you'll be maxing out those injectors really quickly because you will be packing more air into the cylinder, but not have the fuel to compensate, therefore running way way way to lean and probably blowing a hole through the piston(s) (not to mention ALL the other shit you'll break in the mean time). On the other hand, if you just throw on some big injectors, a pump, and FPR, then you'll be dumping wayy to much fuel into the cylinder and you'll be running wayyy to rich (to the point where it probably wouldn't run) and you could ruin the rings and alot of other stuff. That's why you get the tuning device, so you can tune where you want the injectors set so you achieve the AFR (air/fuel ration) that you want which will make your car run at it's top game. There, a lesson in Very Novice Tuning 101. As long as you ask about anything you feel you don't know entirely about, you won't have any problems. There are some very good tuning articles on dsmtuners.com, I suggest reading those and start understanding how to tune your car for how you want it.

ok...I'll be shure check it out. If I were to get an SAFCII would you know of any sites/articles that talks about tuning with them? I'm basicaly set on everything I want exepet for the turbo because of all the tuning and afc adjustments that go along with them.

e316g FTW!

I don't know any off-hand, but there are some good tech articles on tuners and there's ALOT of info in the forums there.

EDIT: This might be a little over your head, but someday you shall understand it. ;)
http://posracing.net/AFCtuning.html

You know you need an afpr with that 255 right

What's afpr stand for...I probly know what it is but I just cant remember.

fuel pressure regulator...and to be perfectly honest I have no idea why I need one.

One other question..I was doing some reasearch and how much of a power gain/benefit will you see from a new o2 housing??

fuel pressure regulator.

if i were you i would hurry up and meet someone or go to a professional shop with someone who knows how to tune with afc. if you get into serious modding and you dont know what you're doing as far as tuning, you could really mess your car up.

You need a FPR because the 255 will pump wayy more than the ecu can handle, to put it in simple terms.

He'll be fine tuning with the afc, as long as he gets help for questions and doesn't make anything but small changes, he'll be fine.

Yeah im with him in the sense that i have my injectors only 550s and a 190 fuel pump, my data logger and the safc neo, just not exactly sure what turbo to get with the setup. Ive seen a few people runnin the e316Gs with that setup but not sure about the boost, prolly around 18-20 but dont wanna be maxin anything out. im thinkin maybe a big t28 or big 16G. I have looked everywhere for tuning with the Neo and cant find anything. The instructions that came with it are way over my head but i found the ones on vfaq for the safc2, should they be about the same?

These are the only one's I've ever found:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafc.htm

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafcsetting.htm