While smoke at morning

Hi, New to here.

I have a Ford Windstar 99 model. When I start my car in the morning, there is some white smoke coming from the tail pipe. After about 1 sec, it dies away. It does not seem to have any smoke while I was driving. However, I do notice that the engine oil is decreasing.

Any suggestion for this problem. Is this problem serious?

Thanks for suggestion.

thsu :grinyes:

I suspect a coolant leak into the combustion intake, most likely leaking lower intake gaskets.

As a test, try removing the pressurized coolant reservoir cap as you shut down the engine for the day. This should lessened the coolant driven pass the leaky gasket by the hot high pressure coolant overnight. You should see less or no smoke the following morning if this theory is correct.

Coolant making its way into the combustion area (or the engine short block) is not good news.

The coolant is not decreasing. I have been worried about this and kept monitoring the level of coolant. It does not seem to affect the coolant level.
Also, the engine cap does not have any sign of "chocolate milk shake".

However, I am still not sure this is not a sign of blown head gasket.

thanks for the reply

thsu :grinyes:

If the coolant is going directly into the combustion inlet, there would not necessarily be any mixing of oil into the coolant.

It would only take a sip of coolant to cause smoke. I still suggest the test.

Thanks 12Ounce:

I will do the test tonight to see how it goes.

I gave a phone call to my mechanics through the phone. He said this may be due to the piston ring leaking in the eninge. Any idea?

thsu :)

Possibly. If it is oil, could also be caused by a leaky valve seal.

Thsu

White smoke is antifreeze. Oil is blue. Extra gas is black. Do the test that 12Ounce suggested. Then put the cap back on and after having the cooling system under pressure. Have someone start the van while you are at the tail pipe you should smell antifreeze at startup. The 95's were the ones that were bad on headgasket. I believe the other years had intake gasket problems.

Regards

Dan

OK.

It does not seem to reduce the smoke. Also, the "white" smoke may be a little "white blue" smoke.

It only puff a second when the engine is cold.

Any suggesion?

thanks

thsu :smooch:

That pretty much eliminates coolant being the problem.

How many miles are on this van? Have there ever been any significant "events" (such as loss of coolant -- overheating) in its history? How much oil is it consuming? Are there any CEL/MIL lights?

The van is currently at about 81K miles.

No, it does not have overheating before. Not sure the rate of oil comsumption. Just got my attention and I am working on it.

A month ago, the engine light is on. I sent it in to my mechanics and he replaces the intake manifold. Since then, the smoke comes out. I am not sure whether the smoke eruption and replacment of intake manifold has any relation at all.

I have given a few calls to the local mechanics for possible reason. They all seem to suggest the piston ring may be the cause of the problem.

If this is a true estimation, should I be worried about it?

Thanks

thsu :)

How often do you drive the van?

Well. My wife is the one who is driving it. She drives it to the work everyday.

thsu :)

The reason I ask, is that I used to own an Aerostar that had gotten some oil in the exhaust pipes. I replaced the pipes and the smoking issue was over.

Similar symptom? A weried thing is that I found some black debri in the tailpipe.

Not sure what is that?

thsu :)

Is the debris brittle or gooey?

Not brittle. It is somewhat gooey. Yet, it is not very oily.

thsu :)

What was the code? Is the light off now?

Fixing the vacuum leak should not ordinarily have lead to any piston ring failure. Hopefully nothing was mistakenly dropped into a combustion chamber.

thsu

Keep an eye on the fluids and drive it.

Dan

It seems that at the moment the smoke may comes from engine oil.

Hopefully, there is no significant damage of the engine.

Will an engine additive be helpful?

To 12Ounce:

Yes, the light is off after the repair.

Thanks for the help.

Black in the end of the tail pipe is normal.
If the coolant level is not dropping, then you do not have a coolant leak.
In cold weather, it is normal for steam to come out of the tail pipe.
Also, in cold weather, it is normal for water drops to come out of the tail pipe.

There is an additive, available over the internet, called Auto RX.
It is NOT a solvent based cleaner, but is more of a detergent.
You need to follow the directions on the bottle.
You add it to your oil, drive for about 1500 miles, change the oil and filter using a non-synthetic oil, and drive for about another 1500 miles.
http://www.auto-rx.com/index.html

Thanks guys.

I think that I will keep an eye on the oil and drive it for the time being.

You guys are very helpful.

thsu :grinyes:

OK, after almost about 2 months driving. I am sure that the coolant is not leaking. Still, the white smoke comes out in the morning or when the engine is cold.

It seems like that the piston ring is the cause of the white smoke at cold start. I have asked for a quote for the fix, which is about $1000.

My 99 windstar has 81k miles on it. Is it worthy of fixing it?

thanks

thsu :smooch:

While I am driving this van without problem, my wife is getting annoyed by the white smoke coming out of cold start. Just have a quote for the fix, it will cost me $1500 to fix the piston rings.

What is your thought or suggestion?

One of my mechanics (close to my home), told me that I should not waste the money on this part because you can drive it safely as long as you keep an eye on the fluid. Another mechanics (far away from my home) told me that I should fix it as soon as possible and give a quote of $1500 to fix it.

Thanks for the help.

thsu :grinyes: :grinyes: :grinyes:

OK, you did the test and it made no difference ... right?
and you cannot detect any coolant loss ... right?

But the smoking began after a lower intake manifold gasket replacement ... right???

Is it possible the PCV valve is not working ... maybe not even in place?

######################
OK, you did the test and it made no difference ... right?
and you cannot detect any coolant loss ... right?

But the smoking began after a lower intake manifold gasket replacement ... right???
######################

Yes to all your request. :grinyes:

The symptom began about 3~4 months ago. I can not see any coolant lost.

#####################
Is it possible the PCV valve is not working ... maybe not even in place?
#####################

How do I check this suggestion?

Thanks

thsu :)

I don't think you've ever told us what size engine you have ...

But if it is a 3.8, the PCV valve plugs into the valve cover very close to the oil pour-hole. An insulated hose goes from the valve up the the throttle body. Check the hose for cracks ... make sure its clear inside. Make sure the grommet in the valve cover is in good shape. Check the fitting at the trottle body ... make sure its not plugged up.

Some folks believe a little WD40 into the PCV valve, shake it around, blow it out ... and all is OK if the insides of the valve will then shake around! Well that's true if you're lucky ... but it doesn't cover the possibility of a cracked/shortened spring. A PCV valve works in three different modes: closed, open and partially-open ...

I like to replace with a Ford supplied part.

If the "smoke" is a serious problem....I have to believe that you are loosing some fluid....oil or coolant.
If not.....then it would seem to not be a problem.

I do not believe that I have seen any posts about piston ring issues on the windstar, not that it couldn't happen, but I would not suspect that at this point.

I would want some serious analysis that there is really a problem that is going to be solved before spending major money......some mechanics like to throw parts, and your money at a problem......and some will really look into the issue before commiting your hard earned cash.
I would not want to see you spend $1500 for a defective PCV valve, etc.....

I am not trying to disqualify a diagnosis by a mechanic, just want to be sure that a diagnosis is done before spending the money.....it cannot be done over the phone, or in a message forum, it has to be done on the vehicle.

The Auto RX that I mentioned earlier claims to clean around the rings....particularly the oil rings.....so, it might be well worth the try.......$30 versus $1500, worth the gamble in my book.
I have used it on my '96, but did not have any noticeable problem......did seem to clean some discoloration (like varnish) where I could see under the valve cover....but I had no other dirt visible to judge by.
Follow the instructions on the bottle,....also listed on the website.
I do trust this product to not damage anything.....in fact....I have a healthy dose of it in the transmission right now......and as most minivan owners.....I'm pretty nervous about the tranny.......having replaced it at about 100K miles.....and now have over 180K miles on the vehicle now.
Stay away from other crankcase (and transmission) cleaners though......

Sorry, my bad.

My van is Ford Windstar 3.8L.

Yes, the coolant is fine. However, I am losing the oil. I have to pour in about half quart of oil every week (~300 miles) to keep the oil full.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions.

thsu :grinyes:

THAT is a problem.....
Any puddle under the vehicle? (how much oil out of engine versus into the cylinder)
You could look at each spark plug to try to track down which one is sooty as compared to the others....which would get you to the problem cylinder(s).

Valve seal(s) can also cause such a problem.....again more diagnostic needed to get to the source of the leakage.

Actually, there is no puddle or sign of oil leaking on the ground. I checked it almost every day.

thsu :smooch:

Then you know that it is going into the engine.
There are tests, which I am not up on, that can be done to determine what is the cause of the leakage.
You will want to know which cylinder, or if it is more than one cylinder, the specific cause of the leak at that point(s).
Point being, you want to do these tests before tearing apart the motor.

Thsu
A problem on high mileage engines is valve guide seals. If you are using oil and the smoke is generally a blueish grey your burning oil. White smoke is almost always indicative of coolant. Does the exhaust smell like antifreeze? Valve guide seals or even rings are not necessarily anything to wory about other than the smoke unless the van starts to run bad. You must watch the oil level. I would suggest as Wiswin has many of times to send a sample of oil in to Blackstone Labrotories and find if there is any antifreeze or excessive wear. Send it by Fedex or Ups and it will get there faster and you can get your results in a few days. They will tell you what kind of wear the van has recieved. If your bad about changing the oil or you bought it used and you dont know how it was taken care of that can be a cause of the rings sticking. Varnish builds in the engine and makes them stick. There are 3 rings on a normal piston. Top ring and center are generally considered compression rings while the bottom is considered the oil ring. It is different shape thicker with a cage around it. The oil ring is the one that generally sticks. You can generally discover a bad ring buy compression test. It wont always tell if the other rings are working properly. My advice oil sample first and then let us know after. Another thought as Wiswin said sparkplugs will tell the story also. A light brown whitish plug will tell you its burning clean. A black carbon substance is burning rich. An oil fouled plug is sort of like a rich burning plug only not as sooty and may have a blue cast to it. If antifreeze is leaking into the combustion chamber you might get a light greenish tinge. Post back with any findings and we will advise.

I recently had the same problem on my 99 with blue smoke. If was caused by a defective pcv valve.

Replaced it and the smoke went away.

I had a 96 winnie with a small head gasket type leak issue that appeared around 90k. Smoked white until it warmed up. They wanted 1300 to fix it. I found that I could get a remanuf engine for twice that, so I decided to ride it out. The thing very slowly used coolant, but I only had to add every 3-4 months. Ended up doing nothing and sold the thing with 144K or so. I am so glad I did not fix it. They probably would have done more harm than good to try to fix it.

I say if the oil is not getting corrupted by coolant, and if you do not have to add very much, ride it out.

huskerdoo,
I appreciate that info on your PCV valve problem. I had suggested the PCV as a possible problem ... but I was going on theory alone, no experience.

It stands to reason though, that if the PCV valve stuck open or the internal spring was defective, the engine intake would be flooded with excess crankcase oil during low speed (high vacuum) operation.

Thanks for the reply.

Seems like that to replace the PCV valve is a good bet. I will do it this weekend and see how it goes. I was almost to drive to the mechanics for the fix ($1500 :banghead: )

Is there any picture that I can have for a reference? Is there anything that I should be aware of?

Thanks for the suggesion.

thsu :grinyes:

OK, here is an update.

Went to a Ford dealer and get a PCV valve for ~$12 dollars. Unplug the PCV valve and replace the new one. It reduces the smoke significantly. The old one is very tight and seems the spring is stuck. Instead, the new one has some freedom to move. This may be the cause of the strong vacuum at the cold start and thus cause unnecessary oil flooding as 12Ounce suggested.

I will see how it goes this week. If it can hold on for a week, I may have solved the problem.

Thank 12Ounce and huskerdooo for the sharp suggestion and the others' help.


thsu :grinyes: :grinyes: :grinyes: