98 Battery/Alternator Issue?

First, I'd like to mention that I've read some very good info on this site and I send out a big thanks to all who participate and help.

Second, I've spent the last 2 hours sifting through information trying to see if my particular issue is covered. I've found some helpful info, but still not exactly sure of the problem. It may already be covered here, so I apologize if I simply just didn't spend enough time searching. Now onto my problem...

A couple of days ago, my mother had been driving around town without any problems what-so-ever. Very hot day here in Texas. After several trips and stops, everything seems to still be fine. Vehicle sits for about 30 minutes, when she gets in, starts it up without any problem and heads for home. Everything going well for about 5-10 minutes. Then she says the engine began losing power -- couldn't get above 10 mph and was chugging. She also said she noticed that certain electrical components quit working -- power locks, windows, dash gauges, but the A/C continued working. She parked the vehicle and fortunately got a ride for herself and my kids. Immediately, I suspected alternator.

I get to the van about 2 hours later. It starts just fine and appears to be running perfectly. Power locks, windows, radio, gauges, AC all working. Engine revs fine and tach appears normal. I decide to go ahead and move the van from the side of the road to a safer location to have a closer look. Everything appears normal for about 100 yards. Then I notice the problem with the engine starting to chug and loss of power/acceleration. And slowly, electrical components start dropping one by one. I get the van to a safe location and leave it running. Idles fine, but by now, I've lost all the gauges and lights on the dash. Then the radio goes. Shortly thereafter, the engine chugs then stalls and dies completely. I'm convinced at this point that it's the alternator.

I remove the alternator, which fortunately is easy to do on this model, and head to the nearest Auto Zone. They place it on their machine and test it for me. To my surprise, all the tests pass. Being so sure that it was the alternator, I didn't even think to bring the battery with me, so back to the van I go to get the battery. Take it back to Auto Zone. Tests so that it is a little low, but not really too bad. They go ahead and put it on their charger/tester, which does report after about 5 minutes that the battery won't take a charge and should be replaced. Perplexed by the idea that the battery had enough juice to start the engine, but a susposedly good alternator doesn't keep things running once started, I decide to go ahead and replace the battery anyway. It was almost 4 years old. I take it back, put it in the the van starts right up. All electrical components working great. All dash gauages and lights working fine. Engine idling and revving fine. Test drive and engine power is fine and problem appears to be solved (although I'm still perplexed given the supposedly good alternator, which is slightly over a year old.

I leave the vehicle running for several minutes before picking up my mom and rest of the family for the trip back home. Trip takes roughly 45 minutes. Just as I'm pulling up to the house, I notice that I'm starting to lose electrical components, such as the power windows, locks. Notice the lights are starting to get dimmer. Then dash gauges quit functioning. Then radio shuts off. Engine never lost power or any symptoms I saw earlier. Of course, I'm thinking alternator once again. But I did notice, when I shut off the engine, lights got brighter, radio came back on and power windows started working. I attempt to restart the van, but it won't turn over, as if there just isn't enough juice in the battery to do so. By now, it's late in the evening and I decide to leave it until the next day for futher diagnosis.

I let the van sit for quite some time. I attempt to start it and it fires right up (never even charged the battery). All electrical components are working and engine appears to run fine. While running, I remove the positive cable from the battery to see if the vehicle continues running on just the alternator. It does and all electrical components still operate just fine.

And that's where I am currently. Alternator appears to be okay, just as the test reported. But I'm wondering if it could be going bad and fluctuating between putting out enough juice to not quite putting out enough. Guy at Auto Zone suggested the Ignition Control Module. My experience with them in the past, however, has always been when they go out, everything quits working at once. Not intermittent problems. They either work or they don't. And if they don't, the engine won't even start. With that said, however, is my thinking wrong here? Could it be something with the ICM? What about the CCRM? Is that something that could relegate which components get power if it determines their isn't enough volts to go around or is my speculation misguided?

I apologize for such a long detailed post. Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.


Rick

Check fuse "T" in the engine compartment fuse box.
This is the alternator fuse.
I had an alternator failure (a motorcraft rebuild that MELTED within 30 days) that took out this fuse.
I bought a NEW alternator.....thought I had the problem solved......had the same situation you did......replaced the battery.......had the same situation.......and then remembered reading about that fuse. I replaced it....and everything was fine.

wiswind,

Thank you for the response. It is greatly appreciated.

Looking through the 98 Owner's Manual, it states that fuse 'T' is not used. And sure enough, there wasn't a fuse there when I checked. Should I look to another designation in that underhood compartment? Other research I've done mentions that the design does use a fuse between the battery and alternator to prevent a short on the battery reaching the alternator.

Also, do you by change know if the voltage regulator on these models is built into the alternator or separate? I haven't been able to find anything that concretely confirms.

Thanks again!!

Rick

Voltage regulator is part of the alternator assembly.
From what you are saying, they changed the designation of the fuse for the alternator. I'll be it is still one in the engine compartment fuse / relay box.
On my '96, it is one of the mini fuses.....just like the ones in the fuse box inside the car.

Doing a compare of both the 96 fuse-box diagram and the 98 fuse-box diagram, I can't locate anything on the 98 that looks like it would be the same as the T fuse on the 96. In the 96 manual, the T fuse is listed as:

ALT/REG 15 Amps Internal Alternator Regulator

Your story is atypical...I'd next check battery voltage with engine off and then with engine running...I'd try to check it for 1/2 hour or more...it may show 14v, then dip to 6v for awhile. I just replaced a Duralast alt (autozone) on my windstar...it only lasted 3 years...but it showed a more typical response - 12.2v with engine running, then dropping to 11v, etc. With LLT warranty, they are good about just handing you another one.

This is out of left field, but did you check your negative battery cable and its connections? It should be bolted to the Firewall at some point with a smaller wire and the cable itself should be connected to your engine block. Check that these connections are clean as well as tight. Also examine the cable itself ( I once had one that corroded from the inside out.) This can cause the type of electrical issues you mention, although I have never seen an engine lose power from this. I have only had this problem with GM cars, but I am new to Ford. Anyway I hope this helps.

I have the same problem with my 98 Windstar. I was driving along heard electrical noise on the radio. Then the radio went out - came back on a couple of times, van lost power. I was able to get off the road. I let it sit a few minutes than is acted like the battery was dead. I jumped it and got it started. I let it idle and, but it died after a 2 minutes of running.

So I hooked up the jumper cables and let the other car charge the battery for 5 minutes. The van started - radio works and I drove it home.

Battery is only a couple of years old, altinator has never been changed.

Help!

Darryl

Darryl, welcome to the forum.

Check your battery with a multimeter...

It should be ~ 12.5v just sitting. If not, slow charge (2 or 6 amp) overnite.
It should be ~ 13.5 - 14.5v with engine running. If not, your alternator or voltage regulator has failed.

OR you can take the vehicle to autozone, advance or o'reillys (check by phone first - not sure of the last 2) and they can check both alt and batt.

I checked the voltage earlier - with the engine off I had 12.5 - 13 volts. With the engine running about 14 volts. I decided to clean the battery terminals there was a little corrosion - but not bad.

I restarted the van and backed it out of the garage. The warning alarm stated to go off and the charging light came on. I inched it back in the garage and quickly checked the voltage - only 8 volts.

So looks like the alternator is bad. I am charging the battery and going to see if it will hold a charge.

The alternator must have failed - started working again and now seems to be out completely.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Darryl

When you buy an alternator, check for Lifetime Warranty. I know autozone has them...maybe advance and o'reilly...maybe pepboys but they are generally higher priced. I've had good luck with autozone with returns..they just hand you another one. You can check for your part on their website. Oreilly is good for getting obscure (and regular) parts in 12 -24 hours.

You can get real cheap DMMs at places like Harbour Freight. I would always monitor vehicle voltage to check for changes when the problems start.

I wonder if anyone has introduced water into the engine bay? On today's cars with their extensive electrical connections under the hood, water does strange things to continuity over time. Sounds like a bad ground or continuity on a plug.
Marc/Atlanta

You can get real cheap DMMs at places like Harbour Freight. I would always monitor vehicle voltage to check for changes when the problems start.

I wonder if anyone has introduced water into the engine bay? On today's cars with their extensive electrical connections under the hood, water does strange things to continuity over time. Sounds like a bad ground or continuity on a plug.
Marc/Atlanta

That's very interesting that you mention that. After some more analysis on the van, I discovered that the oil-change tech who checked the fluids before my mom's trip, grossly over-filled the power steering reservoir. More examination revealed that the power steering fluid has been coming out of the reservoir and getting onto other places on the engine. Even the insulation inside the hood was soaked. I suspect fluid has also gotten into the alternator, given that they are side-by-side. It would be impossible for fluid to get to places where I've noticed it and not get into that alternator.

Rick

If you have the power steering fluid all over the place.....I would change the serpentine belt, as it will be softened up by the fluid......happended to my belt that was less than a year old......and it fell apart.

I would also wonder if they used the correct fluid for your power steering.
It will NOT be generic power steering fluid.....it will be either a Mercon ATF (newer windstars), or a "Type F" ATF for older windstars (like my '96).

rickbray66 I have the same exact problem with my 2000 windstar. Did you ever solve your problem? What did you do?

I have just gone through this. It turned out to be the alternator.