P0171/174

I have these codes on my '01 Windstar. How urgent is the fix? I have seen the posted procedure for the fix and am confident that I can do it. I just don't know how quickly I can get to it. Am I skating on thin ice?

If your codes are due to the shrinkage of the seals on the isolators bolts, I would think that you are probably okay. My 2000 would set those codes only at idle. There wasn't enough air leakaging into the manifold to significantly affect the mixture at higher throttle settings. That's my story and I sticking to it.

Good luck.

Jim

I waited about 3 or 4 months before I repaired mine with no known ill effects. If you are only talking a couple of weeks then I doubt you should worry.

I drove my 2000 Windslug for 2 years with these codes before I was sure what the problem was. It turned out to be the notorious isolator bolts. I made the fix about a month ago and the van runs much nicer and mileage has improved. I would not wait as long as I did however, because when I pulled the intake plenum off, I had a gunked up mess. The EGR ports were practically plugged and it took a while to get it cleaned up. Not a big deal, but tedious. That PCV hose is pulling a lot of oil from the valve cover and the longer you wait, the bigger the mess. I am considering installing an inline filter to help limit the oil as I have seen in this forum. Your best resource for this issue is this forum, this is an extremely common issue and people here are very helpful. Good luck.

Oh good. I was hoping it wasn't something that was urgent. I have to go out of town for a couple of weeks (not in the WS) and I can get to it after that, so this is all good news. You are also right about the information on the forum. I have searched and read all of it and I have the procedure all printed out. Thanks for the help!

Depending on your mileage, I highly recommend replacing plugs and wires while you have the cowl and top end off. It's a piece of cake reaching the back of the motor. I would hate to have to do this from the bottom of the vehicle.

One item to keep in mind: The isolator bolt problem can result in pinging (well, it did for me), which can be very bad for the engine. However, if you've got pinging before the isolator bolts can be replaced, high-octane gas or a bottle of octane booster will get you through.

Those codes for my '01 were for intake gasket and bolts. I let it go for a couple of months and it got worse. Milage went thru the floor. Got it fixed and no problems since.

I had the intake gasket repalced under warranty on my 2000 Windstar two years ago. Is it possible that they are bad again?? I am going to check my IAC as soon as I can because my car's idle has progressively gotten worse. Any help is appreciated.

I'm going to repeat myself (I often do!) ... please do not consider putting a filter or other restriction in the PCV path. The PCV eliminates vapours (from piston blow-by, etc) from the crankcase. This helps keep the oil and crankcase clean.

Yes, unfortunately, it also means oil droplets get sucked up from the crankcase into the intake ... and this oil will seep down into the lower intake clinging to the surfaces and making gunk ... the hot PCV gas "cooks", but does not fully burn, this oozing oil.

Ford should have provided a another set of o-ring seals between the plastic upper and plastic spacer to prevent this seapage. I have RTV'd these six horn-like connections ... and have had success. Oil pools on my upper intake and a little gets carried by the air stream into the combustion chamber ... this doesn't make gunk as it is fully burned.

If you are foolhearty enough to also try this ... you're on your own! I would warn you the six joints have to be liberally RTV'd for any chance of total sealing and any success. ... and of course the RTV has to be sensor-safe. I recommend the Permatex Grey ... it seems to cure a bit slower.

larissa
You won't be the first ... if your dealer did NOT replace the isolator bolts as he should have! Do have the codes again?

I have had the codes on periodically since the replacement, but I had moved from CA where the repair was done to LA and the dealer here said not to worry about it. Well the codes came on again sometime after Katrina struck and I had them pulled (S.S.D.D.), so I have given up. If I had a machine myself I might look to see if they are different, but why bother at this point. I am guessing that the isolator bolts weren't replace b/c why would they want to spend their money doing that. I cannot afford to have the repair done again this time on my dime and I am a single parent (only one car), can't be out of it for however long it will take the butts.

I have had the codes on periodically since the replacement, but I had moved from CA where the repair was done to LA and the dealer here said not to worry about it. Well the codes came on again sometime after Katrina struck and I had them pulled (S.S.D.D.), so I have given up. If I had a machine myself I might look to see if they are different, but why bother at this point. I am guessing that the isolator bolts weren't replace b/c why would they want to spend their money doing that. I cannot afford to have the repair done again this time on my dime and I am a single parent (only one car), can't be out of it for however long it will take the butts.

It is possible that they did the repair using the old style parts (either purging their inventory or perhaps the new parts weren't out at the time).

When a dealer does warranty work they charge Ford for the repair so they do make money performing warranty work.

I bought some replacement black seal bolts in early 2000, but by 2004 the improved green seals were well known (I think!). Of course, there are other leak possibilities.

larissa, do you not have an AutoZone in the area?

I bought a '98 WS (3.8L) on 6/10/06. It has the P0171/174 set, and it has a rough idle occasionally accompanied by surging (from the engine CPU trying to compensate for the air leak with extra fuel?). Of course the guy at the FLAPS said to replace the HO2 sensors (thanks, buddy).

I see all these threads about this condition, but the TSB is for model years '99 and up. I know the upper intake manifold changed in the '99 model year to account for the different shaped hood, but is the TSB still applicable? Or should I just be looking for a simple vacuum leak?

I know that the TSB says not to use carb or brake cleaner to find the leak because of possible damage to the IMRC bearings, but is it possible to use propane?

Thanks

I bought a '98 WS (3.8L) on 6/10/06. It has the P0171/174 set, and it has a rough idle occasionally accompanied by surging (from the engine CPU trying to compensate for the air leak with extra fuel?). Of course the guy at the FLAPS said to replace the HO2 sensors (thanks, buddy).

I see all these threads about this condition, but the TSB is for model years '99 and up. I know the upper intake manifold changed in the '99 model year to account for the different shaped hood, but is the TSB still applicable? Or should I just be looking for a simple vacuum leak?

I know that the TSB says not to use carb or brake cleaner to find the leak because of possible damage to the IMRC bearings, but is it possible to use propane?

Thanks

For a 98 I would look for a vacuum leak. You might also want to consider fuel pressure and the MAF sensor. If you have an air leak it will be somewhere common to both banks since you have both codes.

Yes I have an Auto Zone. I have discovered (thank to the posts) that my IAC unit is bad which is why I got on here in the first place the other day. I will be getting a new one today and putting it on. Funny thing with that is it turns out FORD dealer is cheaper than anybody else for the part. I am still concerned about the Intake problem though b/c the code lights still on.

It will take a certain number of drive cycles to clear the code and CEL after the problem is solved.

I bought a '98 WS (3.8L) on 6/10/06. It has the P0171/174 set,

Risky move buying a vehicle with the check engine light on. But, I'd guess your wife probably has already told you that! ;)

I see all these threads about this condition, but the TSB is for model years '99 and up. I know the upper intake manifold changed in the '99 model year to account for the different shaped hood, but is the TSB still applicable? Or should I just be looking for a simple vacuum leak?

From what I know (that is, only stuff I've read on this forum), the TSB does NOT apply in any way to the '98 or older. My '98 had a P0174 and it was just a matter of finding out where the unmetered air was entering the engine. (For me, it was a loose vacuum line at the back of the engine). Because you have BOTH the 171 and 174, you want to look farther upstream. Your O2 sensors (resulting in the 171 and 174) are telling you that both sides of the engine are experiencing the problem. Therefore, the problem is most likely in parts of the engine that are not "side specific." Take a really good look at everything between the air cleaner and the intake manifold. Just shooting in the dark, here.

I had a similar problem with my '98' Windstar last week. I own an OBDII code reader and had the same two codes. I replaced oxygen sensors mass air flow sensor and it turned out that it was a couple of rubber Tees in the vacumn line were dry rotted. This vacumn line runs from the PCV valve (front valve cover to the Brake booster mounted on the drivers side firewall. In retrospect I was losing a bit of brake boost when applying brakes butI found the vacumn leaks by listenening to a hissing sound and following the line with my hand. The dry rotted rubber hoses connected steel vacumn lines at different angles towards the back of the engine.

Good Luck!