codes P0171, P0174 Lincoln LS V6"

How old is your battery? The electrical systems in these cars are pretty picky. Even if the battery load tests fine and starts the car fine, if it's around 5 years old I'd suggest you replace it and see if that fixes your issue.

-Rod

hmmmm its worth a try ill try it with another car battery

rod, took ur advice and bought a new diehard gold battery, and problem is gone... u really know ur ls's, i thought a failing battery would mean the car would not start sometimes which never happen since i bought the battery 3 yrs ago, im never again buying a cheap autocraft battery. thanks for ur help

Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully that will be a long-term fix for you.

Thank the forum, I learned about the battery trick from others on this forum.

-Rod

ok car work with no problems for 24 hrs, next day started doing same thing again, cutting off at stop light or when idle for more than 3 min, 2 days later, starting it and extremely rough idling, unplug coils one by one on right side and seems that entire right side, 3 coils, are not igniting, used a spark tester which shows that they are sparking, remover air intake again to check to c if fuel nozzle is clogged, not clogged, dont know wat else to do, fuel is good, sparking, could it be egr, please help!!!

looks like coils on right side are bad, replacing all coils from ebay, lets c if that works

just wanted to update, it was the coils, replaces all the coils for 20$ each from ebay, and now engine runs perfect, feels like when i bought it brand new, also i replaced the valve cover seal with an aftermarket seal because the coils go when oil leaks into the spark plug wells. so it seems i had 2 problems at the same time, the pcv valve and misfiring due to bad coils. i wish the damn ecu would have picked that up and give me a check engine trouble code or something. its seems the ecu detected the misfire on the right side coils and then cutoff the fuel to the right 3 cylinders, but gave no check engine light,

hope this helps someone!

My 00 80,000 mile, V6 LS is exhibiting the symptoms and EC's 171/174. I'm preparing to complete the replacement of the elbow which is likely to be the cause; and I'm looking for some related input/advice.

#1. Has anyone paid for this repair to be completed; and what did it cost?

#2. When performing this repair; what other 'maintenance' actions should be performed while the engine is exposed?

#3. Beside having a new part for the elbow, and intake gaskets; what other parts am I likely to need to have on hand at the time of the repair.

#4. One step in the process is to drain the coolant; what is the best way to do this? Is there a drain tap on the bottom of the radiator? If the objective of this step is to remove the coolant from the top half of the engine; do I need to ensure that the thermostat is open so the engine will drain too?


Thanks everyone.

I don't know what you could expect to pay for the dealer to change the PCV elbow. I'm guessing probably somewhere around $300 based on the 2 hours or less labor and the $25 part marked up by 40% or so. The intake manifold gaskets are reusable if I remember correctly.

Other items you should consider while in there would be spark plugs and, if the plugs/coils show evidence of oil leaks, valve cover gasket sets and coils. The bank 1 spark plugs are very easy to get to once you get the upper intake manifold off.

-Rod

Same problem on my car (LS 2001) with P0171 and P0174 - replaced the plenum gasket as that was leaking but still no help with the codes and Check Engine LIght. Rod - could you please get me info on this hose/elbow you are talking about so I can forward onto my mechanic.


Thanks

I completed this repair with some DIY lessons learned that may be worth passing on. This really was not a hard or difficult repair to complete. You get to know your car much better. Also; I would not have been adventurous enough to embark on this repair if I did not have the backing of this Forum and the contributions from Rod; thanks Rod, I felt like you were right there with me at times :)

Be sure to use a pre-lube to help with any corrosion on bolts. This was especially the case for the 7 bolts on the crossbar at the cowl. Take every precaution to prevent ANY bolts from breaking as you remove them. Resolving broken bolts is not a pleasant use of time.

Use caution when working around plastic parts; these are easily susceptable to breaking and can be avoided with proper care. If they break, you may be able to repair/mend them using a super glue for plastic.

VERY, VERY IMPORTANT - BE SURE TO PREVENT ANYTHING FROM ENTERING THE OPEN EXPOSED INTAKE PORTS!

It is not necessary to completely remove/disconnect the fuel line or the electrical connection for the injectors. If you're careful, once you remove the support bracket bolt for the fuel line, you can remove and place the lower intake aside with the fuel line and injector wiring still connected. This will save you time and still provide adequate room and access to reach the elbow to make the repair.

Lightly lubricate the inside of each end of the new elbow to make pushing it onto the mating tube and EGR Valve connection much easier.

When reassembling; make as many of the connections to the rear of the intake manifolds as possible before you place them in their installed position.

Reconnect the two vaccuum hoses to the EGR component that bolts on at the rear of the upper intake manifold, before placing the manifold in position. Once the manifold is in place, it is then easier to bolt the EGR component on and not have to try and work in cramped quarters and tight places to reconnect these hoses.

Take this opportunity to inspect everything and complete normal routine maintenance of parts while they are within easy access.

Thanks for the reply - base dont he info from Rod, I took this back to my mechanic who did find the elbow hose was cracked and the source of the vaccum leak and check engine light. Getting this info off the forum probably saved me several hundred dollars in diagnsotic time and fixes from the dealer.

Thanks all !

After I completed this repair (replaced the elbow connector) the car runs great and no engine light :)

After a couple days of driving I noticed a slight smell of engine coolant, so I found the problem to be needing to replace a hose clamp. After I fixed this, I used a garden hose and spray nozzle to gently rinse the residual coolant from the engine.

Now, the engine will not start. The engine turns over and there is gas being sent to the cylinders, but there is no attemp to start at all. I don't thinik there is any spark at any of the plugs at all.

What would likely have happened?

Anyone have a thought on this?

After the vehicle sat unused for a day, the engine started easily. I didn't notice anything unusual, however, I didn't test drive it either.

The next time I used the vehicle was to drive to work on a Monday morning, about 20 minute drive. On the express way, I noticed the engine beginning to run rough, however, I was able to travel at 80 MPH and the car seemed to be driving ok, not perfect, but ok.

When I exited the E-way, I noticed a rough performance, but the car was still running okay.

I had to stop at a convenience store, and when I started the car the engine cranked for a while before it started and then the car wanted to keep stalling out.

I managed to keep the car running by using neutral when stopped and then placing the car into Drive to go, however, the engine performance was deteriorating fast.

I decided to turn around and head for home. While driving home the engine light came on. I stopped at an Auto Advance store to have the code read and the code indicated the front o2 sensor. I had the codes cleared, bought two O2 sensors and made it home. Replaced the sensors and the engine is running better, but still has a seeming firing issue. It just feels like the engine is not firing right.

When I took it for a test drive, it feels like the engine is not firing right and does not want to reach high speeds. There is no engine light at all.

It just seems like what ever has happened seemed to be associated to rinsing off the engine. Maybe not, but the timing is uncanny. Before that, right after I finished the elbow replacement, the engine was running great, smooth, and powerful.

Any insight is really appreciated.

I'm going to pull he car in the garage and remove the upper intake and go from there.

Is there a way to validate the health of the coils?

Any ideas?

Thanks everyone.

You may have gotten water into the spark plug wells. There have been reports of others having misfire issues after rain storms. The rain runs off the windshield cowl and into the plug wells. You might pull the coils and spray out any water that you find.

-Rod

I wanted to come back to the forum to provide the answer to my question; just in case this will ever be valuable to anyone else.

I traded email with Rod and he gave me some things to consider; then I went to work.

I found that although there are rubber boots on the coil packs, they do ot seat real well onto the surface of the valve cover. So, it is very possible for this bad seal to be comprimised and for water to find a way past and into the spark plug well. When this happens to many of the cylinders, the engine experiences severe misfire and does not start. A very hard lesson learned for me is to NEVER use water on this engine.

The good news is; once I took the time to access each spark plug well and vaccumm out any moisture and completely and thoroghly dry out every coil pack and reassemble the engine; this car runs like brand new. Smooth. Fast. Wonderful.

So in short, here is what corrected my P0171, P0174; engine light on issues:

1. Replaced a bad rubber connector 'elbow' at the EGR.
2. Replaced all spark plugs.
3. Replaced the coil paks on the left side of the engine.
4. Replaced the valve cover gaskets on the left side of the engine.
5. Replaced the front O2 senors in the exhaust system.

Yes, this was a lot of work. I did this all on my own and I'm good with following instructions but I'm not a mechanic. None of this work was too hard for me to perform. I did buy a OEM Shop Manual and would recommend this to anyone who is going to perform their own repairs.

My car now runs beautifully; I really like my LS.

Two things to be aware of.... and really watch out for...

1. All plastic parts. Use extreme caution as not to break any.
2. Prelube the bolts to be removed on the crossbar; 2 on each side and 3 in the center. 4 of the 7 of these broke when I attempted to remove them.

FINNALLY:

Listen to Rod, he provides valuable insight :)

Thank you for the feedback and letting us know what it took to fix the issue.

There are a lot of folks on this forum that know their stuff, which is where I learned much of what I know about these cars. I probably just spend too much time on here and address questions where I can before the others have a chance to.

-Rod

Hey Guys,

OK Guys, I'm far from mechanically gifted -- but my local mechanic isn't familiar with this car, so I'm hoping I can at least figure out what's going on so I can tell him exactly what I need done.

After replacing the fuel pump and filter (at the mechanic's suggestion) I'm still having all the issues this thread mention as PCV elbow issues. (Stalls at idle, RPM's drop randomly when I'm stopped at a light, stutters and RPM drop when I'm pulling a hill at freeway speeds)

I know when I first took it to the shop it had a misfire code (he didn't give me the code number, unfortunately, but said it was a lean code). This code was cleared when they replaced the fuel pump and filter and now the car is showing nothing on the code reader -- but it's still running terribly.

It also has a smell of gasoline when I start it on cold mornings -- which doesn't seem to fit the PCV elbow symptoms... at least from what I've read on this thead

I'm up for any ideas you may have. Also, specific instructions on how to diagnose the PCV Elbow - or anything else you think it might be- would be great (I'm sure they're posted here somewhere... but I can't seem to find them).

Thanks!

If you have a gen I LS, then a bad IAC would explain most (but not quite all) of your symptoms.

Per your PM I sent you an e-mail. For future others that find this thread during searches I'll give a short synnopsis of other areas to consider.

The electrical systems are very sensitive. If the battery is old, even if it doesn't have symptoms of being weak, change it out and see if that changes the symptoms.

Since you had prior misfire codes, pull at least the three coils that you can easily access and check them for signs of oil, white powder, or rusty colored powder. Leaking spark plug well seals are fairly common up to through the 2002 model year, and there are reports of leaking windshield cowl seals allowing water to puddle on the coils and in plug wells, both of which could cause misfires and coils to fail.

From the LS forum main page, in the upper right, there is a "Search this forum" tool which allows searches for keywords.

-Rod

So after the fuel pump and filter were replaced, and we ran a fuel additive through one tank, I'm happy to report that it no longer stutters when going uphill.

However, it still stalled on my yesterday when I first started it up. (Put the car in reverse and was holding the brake waiting to back out ... all of a sudden it was dead).

I went down to the auto parts store and used their OBDII scanner. No codes initially -- then I did the "advanced test" or whatever that option is and it showed a p0316 in memory (misfire in first 1000 rpms on startup... or something along those lines).

It also (seemingly randomly) drops RPMs when stopped at a light. (from 800 down to about 400).

Does this still sound like PCV to you guys? or IAC, as joegr said.

I searched the forum for IAC diagnostics and I'm going to go figure that out right now... more later!

THANKS AGAIN!

So I just checked the IAC valve using these directions that Shorod put up elsewhere in the forum:

As for a test for the IAC, try turning on the A/C with the engine at idle, assuming your compressor engages. If, when the compressor clutch engages, the engine speed does not drop noticeably, the IAC is probably doing its job. You could also turn the steering all the way to one of the locks for a second or two. If when you reach lock, the engine speed doesn't drop noticeably, that's test 2 indicating the IAC is doing its job.

Both of these made a significant change to my RPMs.

So now my question is -- how hard is this IAC to swap out? Could I do it myself with normal tools and limited know-how, or should I take it back to the shop?

...So now my question is -- how hard is this IAC to swap out? Could I do it myself with normal tools and limited know-how, or should I take it back to the shop?

It's very easy to change. Two bolts, one hose, and one electrical connector.

One hose? There's no hose to the IAC. The trickiest part is probably making sure the metal gasket doesn't fall when you remove the two 10mm bolts. Also getting the gasket to stay in place when reinstalling.

The IAC is mounted to the throttle body. It's probably the easiest part to replace under the hood.

-Rod

One hose? There's no hose to the IAC. The trickiest part is probably making sure the metal gasket doesn't fall when you remove the two 10mm bolts. Also getting the gasket to stay in place when reinstalling.

The IAC is mounted to the throttle body. It's probably the easiest part to replace under the hood.

-Rod

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Lincoln/LS/Motorcraft/Idle_Control_Valve/2002/Base/8_Cyl_3-dot-9L/MICX1731.html?tlc=Engine+%26+Drivetrain
Isn't this the valve? The hose is the air supply into the valve. I don't have a gen I LS, but I had several cars with the 4.6L and it used a very similar IAC assembly. One side bolts to the manifold, and a hose hooks to the other side to supply air to the valve. Looking at the picture of the valve, it sure looks like a hose connection on one side to me.

Geesh, I've never seen one like that. Everyone I've seen has the inlet and outlet cast as part of the mounting base. The Gen 1 V6 LS has the cast housing, no hoses.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Lincoln/LS/Motorcraft/Idle_Control_Valve/2002/Base/6_Cyl_3-dot-0L/MICX1766.html?tlc=Engine+%26+Drivetrain (http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Lincoln/LS/Motorcraft/Idle_Control_Valve/2002/Base/6_Cyl_3-dot-0L/MICX1766.html?tlc=Engine+%26+Drivetrain)

-Rod

Geesh, I've never seen one like that. Everyone I've seen has the inlet and outlet cast as part of the mounting base. The Gen 1 V6 LS has the cast housing, no hoses.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Lincoln/LS/Motorcraft/Idle_Control_Valve/2002/Base/6_Cyl_3-dot-0L/MICX1766.html?tlc=Engine+%26+Drivetrain (http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Lincoln/LS/Motorcraft/Idle_Control_Valve/2002/Base/6_Cyl_3-dot-0L/MICX1766.html?tlc=Engine+%26+Drivetrain)

-Rod
Sorry, I've only dealt with V8s.

We both learned something, I've never seen an IAC with hose connections.

-Rod

so i pulled off the IAC and MAF and cleaned them (didn't replace them). RPMs are dropping much less when I run my AC Compressor at idle. However, it still stutters (feels like a misfire) when I'm stopped at a light.

No check engine and it's not throwing any new codes ... PO316 (misfire in first 1000 RPMs) was stored in memory when I checked it a few days ago, but nothing new.

Any other ideas?

The factory service manual suggests the following possible causes for the code P0316:



Damaged CKP sensor
Ignition system
Fuel Injectors
Running out of fuel
Fuel Quality
Base Engine
Damaged PCM

-Rod

Well the car finally decided to tell us what was wrong. Sunday afternoon the CEL came on... P0304 - Misfire Cylinder #4.

One new coil later -- and she runs like a dream again!

Thanks to all of you for your help and suggestions.

Hi Rod,

I am new to the forum. I have been reading your many posts and understand your are very knowledgeable on the lovely Lincoln LS :p. I am having ideling issues with codes 171 and 174 showing up. Could you please provide the PDF instructions for changing the PCV rubber elbow? I will take on this challenge in a few days. Thanks!

Hi Rod,

I am new to the forum. I have been reading your many posts and understand your are very knowledgeable on the lovely Lincoln LS :p. I am having ideling issues with codes 171 and 174 showing up. Could you please provide the PDF instructions for changing the PCV rubber elbow? I will take on this challenge in a few days. Thanks!

The files should be in your inbox.

-Rod

I also had a P0171, P0174 codes. PID data showed LTFT and STFT at 25% indicating a lean condition. I too, found my PCV hose damaged. The picture shows the bottom side of the elbow with some cracking, thus allowing in unmetered air. My local dealers did not have the $30 hose (p/n 6767) in stock, so I stopped at my local NAPA store and purchased a $7.50 heater hose that had a 90 degree bend in it, then cut it down to the proper size. The NAPA hose that worked for me is p/n 7398. To help with the installation of the new hose, I found that removing the metal PCV tube (p/n 6K666) at the rear of the engine made it easier.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4456589421_93ec4379e1_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2692/4456636517_8cebb44cb0_o.jpg

Welcome to the forum! That's great information and not typical of a first time poster. Thank you for that!

I will caution against using heater hose as a long term fix in this application. Heater hose is not designed for an oily environment (internally oily anyway). Also, heater hose is meant to withstand pressure but not necessarily vacuum. Under certain conditions it might be possible for this heater hose to collapse and cause driveabilty issues. Just something to think about if a year or so from now you start having similar issues, at which time you shouldn't rule out this hose just because you recently replaced it.

-Rod

Hey Rod.., I'm new to this forum due to the infamous problems with my ls. I am planning on attempting the Pcv valve fix tomorrow and was hoping you could send me a copy of your PDF instrctions. My adress is [email protected] ([email protected])... thnx in advance, it will help me out a lot since I'm not a seasoned mechanic.

The files should be in your inbox.

-Rod

Hi Rod,

You do a great service for us all, Thank you! I am ready to tackle the pcv elbow replacement on my 01 ls v6. Could you please send me your pdf instructions for this job? My email is xxxxx.

The files should be in your inbox.

-Rod

Rod,

Can you send me the pdf files. I pm you my email.

Welcome to the forum!

Yes, the files should be in your inbox as well.

-Rod

I'm going to need that file as well. i think i'm going to replace gaskets as well since i'm removing that much

Please send me the instructions for replacing the pcv elbow. My 174 code shows that it is bank2 only. Since I am running fine, no sputtering or acceleration issues, I am thinking this sounds like a intake gasket vs pcv issue? Anyway, I think I might just replace it all, so please send instructions. Later.....:wink:

Hi Rod, I'm a new member and am having the same problem with my 2002 Lincoln LS V6. I just pulled the upper manifold and changed the plugs. but still hav e fault code P0174. I would really appreciate it if you could send me the PDF's for the breather elbow replacement, also I read you may have some pictures of the job documented. Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Great forum: I would like to thank all of the people that have posted here.

Reference the post by Magooo and wh_474 with a great pic and pn's.

I solved my issue of the P0171 -#1 bank lean. yes it was the pcv elbow. I did change the elbow (mine was dry rotted beyond belief) without taking off the lower intake manifold and it is a bitch. My car runs great and has generated no fault codes in 20 miles of driving and letting it idle numerous times for about 10 minutes.
Would like to point out, the fitting on the lower intake manifold that the pcv elbow goes to (this is the elbow everyone is complaining about) is a calibrated orifice of a very small diameter. You could get stock pcv tubing from the auto parts store and route it to the forward intake manifold and save yourself a lot of trouble putting things back together.

My right hand is all sorts of cut up and scratched as is my forearm from digging deep behind the engine and playing all around the black plastic wire harness insulation box. The most difficult task is removing the bracket that attaches to the pcv elbow, which for reasons unknown has a 10 MM nut on it. My car also had a bonding strap attached to this stud which broke I remounted it elsewhere.

Follow the diagram and instructions posted by Magooo and wh_474 and good luck.

Total time spent screwing around with this P0171 code is about 10-15 hours. (I have a pool and I had to jump in and drink some beers I did the project over a weekend) Figure anytime you take your car to the shop for engine work your looking at 750 bucks so I saved about 675 bucks.

As a side note if you do get platinum plugs do not regap them, I adjusted the gap on some new plugs and the car would not fire. After banging my head against the wall I decided to stick to mechanic 101 (whatever I did must have caused the problem). I bought some 12 dollar plugs at Stuff mart and did not regap them, the car started right up.( that was to fix the #4 misfire code) then it was on to the lean bank code this article is about.

You guys are great appreciate all of your posts.

Could you add me to the list of those needing the pdf instructions. email is mspruellatmi-connection.com.
Thanks Much!

Could you add me to the list of those needing the pdf instructions. email is mspruellatmi-connection.com.
Thanks Much!

The files should be in your inbox. Good luck!

-Rod

Hi Rod,
I need the pdf instructions. email is [email protected]. My mechanic removed part of the elbow but part is still there - is it indeed an elbow? There was definitely a vacuum leak there. Thanks!
Chris

Hi Rod,
I need the pdf instructions. email is [email protected]. My mechanic removed part of the elbow but part is still there - is it indeed an elbow? There was definitely a vacuum leak there. Thanks!
Chris

The files should be in your inbox. I'm not sure how the shop could have removed part of the elbow without either replacing it or putting it back together with a huge vacuum leak.

-Rod

Hello All,

Wow, what a wonderful forum. I am no mechanic and this is my first ever post so i hope I'm following proper etiquette and sharing the right info.

I own an 04 Lincolns LS V6. I have tons of issues with the car. I learned on some other threads that I could take it to an auto parts store and get free diagnostics done.

I got 5 codes back....discouraging

p0305 - Cylinder misfire detected cylinder 5
p0174 - This is the one that led me to you great people
p0430- Catalyst efficiency low bank 2
p0316 - Crank sensor condition
p0353- Ignition Coil

Again I have not researched the forum yet on each of these just the 174 which led me here. I will try and request info on the other codes in the right threads.

Rod could you please send me the pdf instructions as well.

[email protected]

Thanks kindly,
Bag out

Welcome to the forum!

Files should be in your inbox.

-Rod

Mine was the rubber elbow. It was sucked in on the bottom side with a hole. It also was soft and brittle.

If you take the guidance Rod has with a little mechanical skill and take your time this is striaght foward and easy.

Thanks Rod

Welcome to the forum!

Files should be in your inbox.

-Rod

I am also ready to tackle the pcv elbow replacement on my 01 ls v6. Ive been going nutz for 2 years with this. Car has been parked for 3mnths now. I cannot pass inspection. Could you please send me your pdf instructions for this job? My email is [email protected].

thank you.

P....

The files should be in your inbox.

-Rod

The files should be in your inbox.

-Rod

I will try this ASAP. I will update this as soon. Thank you for the files.....

Rod- Having the same issue on my '02 v6, could you please send me the files. [email protected]

Thanks!

I have a 2000 LS and have the codes P0171 and P0174 system too lean please send me pictures on how to repair this code thanks [email protected]

Rod, looks like you are the go to guy on these instructions. I know how much easlier they will make attempting this job. When you get a minute, can you email me the pdfs as well. I sure would appreciate it.
Thanks
Matt

Rod, looks like you are the go to guy on these instructions. I know how much easlier they will make attempting this job. When you get a minute, can you email me the pdfs as well. I sure would appreciate it.
Thanks
Matt

I'll let you read back through the posts and tell me what information you left out.

-Rod

These codes are on my 2002 Lincoln LS along with p0153, p1131 and p1151. It started with the check engine light on and ideling rough, so I read the codes. I found this site while researching the cause of these codes and found it very informative. It is now missing while driving so a friend has offered to help me change the pcv valve.

I would like to get the pdf instructions if I could. :smile:

The car is also doing other wierd things, which may be caused by the fuse box. Yesterday when I turned it off, the parking lights and tail lights would not go off, and today the blower motor stayed on after the car was off and the key was out.