windstar-battery

Hello: I need help;I removed battery cables from battery post.I found out that I should only removed negative.The problem was serpantine belt replacement;I didn"t want to touch alternator and cause short.I replaced Belt reconnected postive and negative cables.The road test everything works ;except Air Compresser will not engage.The Ford people and chilton book said I need to drive 10 miles so the {Brain} could reset itself.Well I drove 15 miles no cooling-Compressor will not engage.Has anyone had this occur;It is a first for me.:screwy: I left out this is a 96 windstar 3.8 Eng

Welcome Commanche,

1. Yes you are right. Disconnecting Negative Post only will do.
2. You have little to fear concerning short circuits when replacing the serpentine belt.
3. Don't get discouraged. Many of us hear spend days, weeks chasing down problems.

I am assuming that this is your first serpentine belt replacement? And you double checked how that belt goes around all the pulleys as per the sticker on the underside of the hood? If you did, and the belt is properly wound around the AC compressor then look to see if the clutch is engaging on it when you switch on the AC in the car.

Post Back more detailed information.

Karl

Thanks coach: Yes I did double check routing of belt: It is properly installed.
I am going over this in my head;I don"t get the part about running Eng to let everything {reset}I do know I had gret air cond. prior to chamging belt/All because I removed positive cable/Makes me wonder what would happen if I had to replace Battery.Your suggestion is appreciated/comanche64

[quote=comanche64]Thanks coach: Yes I did double check routing of belt: It is properly installed.
I am going over this in my head;I don"t get the part about running Eng to let everything {reset}I do know I had gret air cond. prior to chamging belt/All because I removed positive cable/Makes me wonder what would happen if I had to change battery.The compresser is not engaging/Your suggestions are good ones/comanche64:screwy:

Did the elect connector to the ac clutch/compressor get disconnected or damaged in any way during the belt replacement?

And just to sum up - the disconecting of both the positive and negative had nothing to do with your new found problem - unless there was some huge Murphy's law thing happening

Did the elect connector to the ac clutch/compressor getd
disconnected or damaged in any way during the belt replacement?





12Ounce: I did go back checked plug in just back of pulley-good-.. wiring good also.Thanks/ I also pulled wire plug at drier jumped it/I have done this on other vehicles had juice there/this will usally engage compresser clutch.didn"t workComanche64:screwy:

And just to sum up - the disconecting of both the positive and negative had nothing to do with your new found problem - unless there was some huge Murphy's law thing happening



Hello DRW 1000:Yes I agree;Wife came in said Mechanic replace Belt for
100 Dollar estimate-I said I"ll change it for 25 Dollars/Belt removed and replaced 45 min.Wife drove it about 1 mile to store came back;said noise
gone/But no air-cond.I worked B-1-B bomber last 10 yrs.We had at times
what we called a Glitch/Pilots don"t like to hear what He saw as a glitch/and
no one would sign fix as a glitch/had to have referance by book/I think I'll
let Air Cond tech look at it.comanche64:uhoh:

You get into trouble with that + battery terminal if you remove it first, and accidently ground it. (sparks fly, you jump, thing get melted etc.) I killed a battery once with a 1/4" ratchet handle, while twisting off the - terminal, I accidently let the handle fall onto the + terminal. OOOh what a show! I did that to my girlfriends (now wife's) car . . golly . . . the humiliation I . . to this day . . feel!

Yeah, if you got a friend who has an AC gauge let him have a look. But. If you still want a crack at fixing this As I recall, I had a "sudden" no AC situation and fixed it as follows.

1. With the car off.
2. Connect a solid 16 or 14 gauge wire to the + terminal on the compressor.
3. Have a buddy turn the car on, turn the AC on.
3. With the other end of the wire momentarily touch the + battery terminal.
4. If the AC clutch clicks on, GOOD, read on. If not, your comressor is bad.
5. Hold that makeshift + wire on the battery for about 30 seconds.
6. If the cold "tube" doesn't get cold, you need a freon charge.
7. If the "cold" tube doesn't gets cold, GOOD, read on. If not, you need a freon charge.
8. Your buddy gives you a thumbs up! AC is on! then replace that "drier" switch you were talking about. After this, I am unsure what to do.

9. My problem was that dryer switch. And for 5 years it's worked fine.

Karl

Take one last look around the whole area that you were working in, just be be sure that you did not bump some electrical connector loose.

If you have a manual, check to see if the fuses involved are still good.
From my documentation for the '96, Fuse 21 in the passenger compartment fuse box ( I/P ), above and to the left of the driver's left foot, controls the A/C, and a few other things.

The PCM controls the A/C and will prevent the compressor from working under hard accelleration (wide open throttle sensed from throttle position sensor), while starting engine, high engine speeds, engine coolant temperature above a certain level, and low idle speed of 200 rpm below specified idle speed.

The A/C cycling switch, mounted to the side of the A/C accumulator/drier normally closed contacts enable current to flow to Compressor clutch.
The contacts close when the pressue inside the accumulator is about 40psi and above, they open when the pressure reaches about 28psi.
This switch prevents A/C operation under too cold of conditions, and prevents the cooling fins (that cool the passenger compartment) from icing over.

The A/C pressure cut-off switch is located in the high pressure line between the compressor and the condenser, and cuts the compressor OFF when the pressure reaches a certain level.
The A/C pressure cut-off switch also has a set of contacts that turn the radiator fans ON at high speed when the pressure is at a certain level and above, to cool the condensor coils in front of the radiator.

Try several settings to see if the A/C pulls in.
It should engage in Both A/C positions and in the Defrost setting.
My '96 A/C works in all the Heat settings as well.

The A/C compressor clutch relay is inside the Constant Control Relay Module ( CCRM ) which is located next to the battery. The connector comes up from the underside.
I have pictures of the CCRM in my pictures that the link in my signature will connect you to.
I do NOT think that the CCRM is the problem from anything you did, as there are several other relays in there also......including the fuel pump relay.

Coach: I had exp a while back/chev pu.in A hurry shorted pos.It took several hrs to find lg red wire that runs across firewall had shorted on back side/I only found it by rotating wire then I saw it.I found three areas for every situation,. ( Diagnosis} {fix} (test} The last two easy;
The first box is where wars are won- Money is spent-lives are saved or lost.
Be it a DR.-Minister or Mechanic
I have checked every fuse;plug-in wire belt-only thing needed was the wire
directly to + on clutch comp.to pos at battery-A mechanic told me same thing you did without me telling him it had been suggested.Thanks Comanche

Wait, I don't understand,

Your philosophy is great but . . .

What did you do to fix the problem? This is very important! What was wrong with your AC? And how did the battery and belt replacement cause the problem?

Karl

[quote=CoachKarl]Wait, I don't understand,

Your philosophy is great but . . .

What did you do to fix the problem? This is very important! What was wrong with your AC? And how did the battery and belt replacement cause the problem?

Karl[/quote

Coach: I am still in first box;can"t move to second until I am sure of what to do.This one thing I know;before I replaced worn out belt.I had A great Air-Cond Compressor never a problem.I removed neg.from battery;I said to myself;why not removed the Postive also in case I might drop a tool.
Then replaced Belt easy.Reconected postive and the negative-I never had
arc;everything good.Started Eng;Wife drove to store;I said any problems
The car performance good--one thing No Air-Cond-Compressor clutch will not
engage;All fuses-all electrical connections-Routeing of Belt all good.
The C.D. Ford-Chilton had a paragraph stating If power is removed from P>C>M>drive ten miles to allow P.C.M to reset memory.I didn"t know A car
could have Alsheimers.I am sure of one other thing I will never remove postive cable again;one exception Battery replacement.Thanks Comanche.This would apply to Ford Winstar 3.6 year 96 only:frown:

[quote=CoachKarl]Wait, I don't understand,

Your philosophy is great but . . .

What did you do to fix the problem? This is very important! What was wrong with your AC? And how did the battery and belt replacement cause the problem?

Karl[/quote

Coach: I am still in first box;can"t move to second until I am sure of what to do.This one thing I know;before I replaced worn out belt.I had A great Air-Cond Compressor never a problem.I removed neg.from battery;I said to myself;why not removed the Postive also in case I might drop a tool.
Then replaced Belt easy.Reconected postive and the negative-I never had
arc;everything good.Started Eng;Wife drove to store;I said any problems
The car performance good--one thing No Air-Cond-Compressor clutch will not
engage;All fuses-all electrical connections-Routeing of Belt all good.
The C.D. Ford-Chilton had a paragraph stating If power is removed from P>C>M>drive ten miles to allow P.C.M to reset memory.I didn"t know A car
could have Alsheimers.I am sure of one other thing I will never remove postive cable again;one exception Battery replacement.Thanks Comanche.This would apply to Ford Winstar 3.6 year 96 only:frown:

Hello

Does your Heater/Air have an automatic temp control or manual?

I think what the book is refering to when it says that the car needs to be driven about 10 miles for the computer to "relearn" is for the computer to get the shift points back, and engine management data. I don't think the onboard computer tells the clutch on the compressor when to turn on. For that matter, it wouldn't be something that would be changing and the computer would have to compasate for it. (ie. engine wears....compression goes down a bit.....computer changes ....timing....EGR....stuff like that)

Lets check this thing out a bit backwards. Take an OHM meter and check for resistance on the two conections on the clutch. If there is resistance on the clutch...(the coil is good) do you have power to the plug? (of course this is with the engine running and air on)... If no power to the plug...do you have power to the psi switch on the high side? Also, take your OHM meter to the psi switch and check for resistance. (it shouldn't be open with psi in the system).

Something to think about and to check out.

Regards

Dan

LeSabre: Hello got your msg had to paint trim on son"s house;I am back and I am focused.I believe you are absolutely right about the restution process;Let
car Idle;Then and only then;go for cruise;If a driving problem shows up;limp
home if you can;and be sure before next move;Its a computer control world;Nice when it is working;but more fickle than a mustang horse.

I was going to do the Ohm check at comp. clutch--But I don"t think my hands are steady enough.I did check the wire plug;disconnect no juice
while assistant brought eng to 1500 R.P.M.I think I will stop /after all tomorrow is another day.Comanche:uhoh:

Coach: I believe the wire from Pos battery to pos prong on Comp clutch to be a good test.but diffuclt for me without accidently touching something else/there isn"t power to clutch.I did check that out/at 1500R.P.M/unless
a light bulb comes on;Wife will take to Bubba"s shop;and that is a real place/Although I believe He should change it to High Tech.Bubbas place in 1955 was a Elm tree with Hoist chained to a Limb.Comanche

WsWind: I did go to web site ;clear picture.I changed the 4 relays in power
Box.I should have said I swapped 4 identical relays in Power Distrabution Box
Then went to the pictures you have;I now see the location;below Battery
and this is the CCRM Module/I believe the clock is running on me/Wife said
She is taking it to Bubba"s tomorrow.I think it may cost more than 75 dollars
I saved.Comanche

same chorus 2nd verse.Wife said taking me too long to restore air-cond
after belt relcement;She took car to certified mechanic;now not only air-cond not working;neither is blower working and driver srs caution light on
Her latest update "mechanic doesn"t know what the 3 problems are caused from. I didn"t have power at clutch plug.This Hornets nest is epensive comanche

Stop. Wait. This isn't so bad Commanche,

If Bubba's is "good" then Bubba's probably right.
He diagnosed a bad compressor in 1 minute with the car off.
He simply ran a wire directly from your battery to the compressor power terminal. A good compressor clutch will "SNAP!" loudly as the wire is touched to the battery and pulled away. He didn't here that snap, and properly diagnosed a bad compressor.

Now, a brand new compressor is very very expensive. This is why God gave us Junkyards. If Bubba is worth his salt he will explore there first. Especially for a rig a year newer than mine. If you still want to DIYourself, Post back, and start looking for a small 12 Volt battery you can drag to a Junkyard.

Karl.

P.S. Bubba is a perfectly respectable name in these parts. As is Moogie. (They just roll off the tongue right after the word "Yo!")

Coach:There is hope;I don"t need to sign up for tech school;I was a little suspect of Bubba when wife asked if I could loan him {Chilton CD or my Tech.Manual .We had a saying in B1B;they all fly and all go home.
The Windstar will run again with Air-Cond.Thanks Comanche:)

96 Windstar 3.8: here is the fix;3 days Bubba changed the Constant Control
Relay Module.CCRM.The Air-Cond wors great.WSwind had hit on this earlier.
The Mechanic said new one 600 dollars;He put used one in.He told Wife location was Haynes Manuel pg12-4.I guess this is behind dash.200 dollars to repair.This info for anyone who can use it/Comanche

Air-Cond works great.Mechanic replace CCRM;He said new one 600 Dollars.
He put used one in 200 Dollars.This might be of help to someone.Haynes manuel pg 12-4/Comanche:smooch:

WSwind where is the location of the CCRM/ThanksComanche:smooch:

CCRM is in my pictures.....it is in FRONT of the Battery, mounted on the battery side of the plate that goes from the radiator to the fender.
You can just see if from the top. I have pictures showing it from the TOP and the BOTTOM.
If you lay under the car.....you can see a wire harness going to it......

It was easy to replace, and it was not as expensive as you say, or I would surely remember the price.

There is a TSB for an improved CCRM (I have the part number for the new one in my pictures).
The problem with the older units was that the relays in there were not sealed as well as they are in the new one.
The failure mode was....in below freezing weather, you would drive for a while and get things all warmed up, then turn off the car for say only 15 minutes or so.....then go to start the car, and it would turn over, and not start. They called it no start after "heat soak" in below freezing weather.
The problem was caused by moisture inside the relay that controls the fuel pump. So the fuel pump would not run.
The fuel flow is NOT monitored by the OBDII system on our vehicle, so there is no CEL and no code.
For those that have a fuel economy monitor, that is calculated by the airflow as sensed by the MAF, then using the air / fuel ratio that the PCM maintains, the fuel consumption is determined.

wiswind: In reference to post #24:Yes you are right on target;I bought Haynes Repair Manual pg. 12-4 location is exactly where you said/This Book covers Windstars yrs 95 thru 03.
The Chilton manuel covered vans buses and trucks;not specific enough;
I appreciate the Info.The cause I can"t say for sure/The Mechanic said
I probaley shorted power? I didn"t but did take Neg and Pos cables loose.I didn"t check Air-Cond setting before I removed power.He spent 3 days on the loss of Power to Air-Cond clutch.I had spent 2 days;I can see where
someone might change Air-Comp and clutch;But the check that Coach gave;with wire from pos Battery to Cutch Pin pos without eng running would show if clutch clicks in/This C.C.R.M. will have my full attention from now on/Comanche:smooch:

wiswind: In reference to post #24:Yes you are right on target;I bought Haynes Repair Manual pg. 12-4 location is exactly where you said/This Book covers Windstars yrs 95 thru 03.
The Chilton manuel covered vans buses and trucks;not specific enough;
I appreciate the Info.The cause I can"t say for sure/The Mechanic said
I probaley shorted power? I didn"t but did take Neg and Pos cables loose.I didn"t check Air-Cond setting before I removed power.He spent 3 days on the loss of Power to Air-Cond clutch.I had spent 2 days;I can see where
someone might change Air-Comp and clutch;But the check that Coach gave;with wire from pos Battery to Cutch Pin pos without eng running would show if clutch clicks in/This C.C.R.M. will have my full attention from now on/Comanche:smooch: