02 Windstar Not starting
angleton
04-13-2006, 04:39 PM
Just changed the AC Compressor for a locked up clutch that drug so hard the motor wouldn't start. When I replaced everything and tried to start the motor, nothing happened. I didn't hear the fuel pump when I turned the key to the on position (all the dash lights indicated as normal) and nothing happened when the key turned to start (by that I mean the normal dash lights went off as normal but the motor did not turn). I tried jump starting in case the battery didn't have enough juice (I didn't think this was the problem since all the interior lights were bright) to no avail. I removed the stater and took it to Autozone to be bench checked and it works fine.
Question: Is there a fuse I could have blown trying to turn over the draging A/C that just controls the starter engagement and fuel pump? I looked in the mechanic manual and didn't see one.
Any help will be greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
Owen
Question: Is there a fuse I could have blown trying to turn over the draging A/C that just controls the starter engagement and fuel pump? I looked in the mechanic manual and didn't see one.
Any help will be greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
Owen
12Ounce
04-13-2006, 09:04 PM
Look in the owner's glove box manual and find the "starter interrupt relay". Try replacing/swapping it.
BTW, you can test all fuses in place with a voltmeter. When the key is "on", you should find 12 volts on each end of the fuses in those little test holes.
BTW, you can test all fuses in place with a voltmeter. When the key is "on", you should find 12 volts on each end of the fuses in those little test holes.
angleton
04-16-2006, 07:04 PM
I pulled all the fuses and checked with an ohm meter - all good. Checked battery - bad cell. Replaced battery - still won't start. Checked relays - no voltage at fuel pump relay with key in on position; voltage at PCM relay with key in on position. Swapped the starter cutoff (security relay) with the low speed fan relay (same type) - no change. With key in on position jumped the starter solonoid - engine spins but not start (Fuel pump not running).
So what I don't know is: why isn't the fuel pump relay getting any juice? Any ideas?
Owen
So what I don't know is: why isn't the fuel pump relay getting any juice? Any ideas?
Owen
12Ounce
04-16-2006, 09:15 PM
It's good to check the fuses for continuity, but you need to check fuse #5 in-place. Does it have 12v at both ends?
If "yes", move to the relay #207. The 12v (above) should enter terminal #3 and leave on terminal #5 ... that is if the contacts are closing and making continuity. Just for a trial, you might try a jumper between these two terminals.
The 12v leaving the #207 relay goes to the inertia fuel shut-off switch and on to the fuel pump/sender.
If "yes", move to the relay #207. The 12v (above) should enter terminal #3 and leave on terminal #5 ... that is if the contacts are closing and making continuity. Just for a trial, you might try a jumper between these two terminals.
The 12v leaving the #207 relay goes to the inertia fuel shut-off switch and on to the fuel pump/sender.
angleton
04-16-2006, 09:26 PM
It definitely cranks the fuel pump when I jumper it. I tried that after the post. I swapped it with another relay of the same type - no change. I checked the inputs for the relay coil and discovered I do have 12V at the hot side with the key on. The problem is I am getting 10.9V on the low side out of the PCM when it should be ground. I swapped the security relay too with no change.
I checked the 12V output from the PCM relay at the mass air sensor and the PCM relay is definitely closing (12V with the switch on).
On the starter side of things, I checked at the transmission position switch and got 12V there when the switch is turned on. I don't have 12V at the solenoid though. I am looking at possible wire problems now.
Could I have a fried computer on the fuel pump problem?
Owen
I checked the 12V output from the PCM relay at the mass air sensor and the PCM relay is definitely closing (12V with the switch on).
On the starter side of things, I checked at the transmission position switch and got 12V there when the switch is turned on. I don't have 12V at the solenoid though. I am looking at possible wire problems now.
Could I have a fried computer on the fuel pump problem?
Owen
12Ounce
04-16-2006, 09:49 PM
Just for info, I have replaced the PCM and fuel pump relays several times ... I carry extras all the time. I would like you to try a new PCM relay just to put it behind us ... swapping relays about is OK if you have no other options on hand.
As I remember the start-up scenario; the fuel pump relay is supposed to get a start-up (ground) pulse of a second, or so, at initial try. It may take a lift, and reconnect, of a battery terminal to get this pulse again.
After the engine cranks, the PCM must see a signal from the crankshaft (or is it the camshaft?) sensor to keep the ground in-place.
As I remember the start-up scenario; the fuel pump relay is supposed to get a start-up (ground) pulse of a second, or so, at initial try. It may take a lift, and reconnect, of a battery terminal to get this pulse again.
After the engine cranks, the PCM must see a signal from the crankshaft (or is it the camshaft?) sensor to keep the ground in-place.
12Ounce
04-16-2006, 10:10 PM
The starter interrupt (#302) relay's coil gets 12v positive from the tranny switch in P or N. The coil ground comes from the instrument cluster.
Fuse #105 sends 12v to the relay contact.. then on to the starter solenoid.
(BTW, I keep an in-place jumper from the starter solenoid to the battery area for "trying days".)
Fuse #105 sends 12v to the relay contact.. then on to the starter solenoid.
(BTW, I keep an in-place jumper from the starter solenoid to the battery area for "trying days".)
stv840
04-16-2006, 10:32 PM
If it cranks and the fuel pump runs but there is no fuel pressure ck for spark if there is no spark or fuel pressure ck ASD relay
garync1
04-17-2006, 09:43 AM
I would pull the belt off and try to see if it cranks up but only run for a a few seconds if it does crank then you can rule out any electrics right quick.. I only put this here because of the ealier problem with the AC clutch.Water pump power steering pump could be locked up.
12Ounce
04-17-2006, 10:27 AM
Garync1 makes a good point ... return to the ac work to see if anything was disturbed.
The crankshaft and the camshaft sensors could have been disconnected or damaged.
The crankshaft and the camshaft sensors could have been disconnected or damaged.
angleton
04-20-2006, 10:59 PM
Ok, I was using diagram 1D10T as my reference. When I removed the accumulator/drier on the A/C system there was a ground wire on the mount bolt. Since I had not reinstalled the A/C components (except the compressor and I hadn't plugged it in) I neglected to reconnect that bonding ground.
Lesson learned, check all the grounds no matter where they are. That ground prevented the fuel pump from operating and the starter from engaging (and probably the spark from getting through too but since I couldn't get it to turn I never got to a point where I could check that!)
Owen
P. S. Thanks for all the suggestions! They really helped. Now if I can just figure out where Ford hid the Orifice Tube, I'll be in business. But I think I'll make that a different post in the near future as I will be on a business trip and won't have a chance to work on it for two weeks.
Lesson learned, check all the grounds no matter where they are. That ground prevented the fuel pump from operating and the starter from engaging (and probably the spark from getting through too but since I couldn't get it to turn I never got to a point where I could check that!)
Owen
P. S. Thanks for all the suggestions! They really helped. Now if I can just figure out where Ford hid the Orifice Tube, I'll be in business. But I think I'll make that a different post in the near future as I will be on a business trip and won't have a chance to work on it for two weeks.
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