Confederate Flag

i am writing a paper on the significance and conflicting meanings of symbols, specifically this one, and the swastika (which can signify hate, or if your a hindu such as myself, happiness), and i just thought i would get some opinions.


what does this represent to you?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a3/Confederate_Battle_Flag.svg/275px-Confederate_Battle_Flag.svg.png

a few black friends of mine stated that when they see anyone with that flag(like on the back of a pick-up truck or something), they automatically assume racist.
they do not think full on, burn crosses, klan racist, but more along the lines of subtly, cross the street, and privately supremacist.



my white friends however think it represents "the southern lifestyle", or "being a redneck" or something.
that it represents the simple things.


what do you think?


also, what is "dixie"?

I thnk it represents kick ass music, great BBQ, and bass fishin, man makes you think how anyone could hate it lol

JK

I think it just means that people are proud to be from there, people are way to judgemental about southern people

i see it from both sides. i lived in PA for 7 years, and i always thought of the flag as divisionism, racism not so much, as we all know slavery did play a role in the civil war, however, it wasnt as big as most think, if you have done your research, you already know this(but everyone still remembers slavery). i remember when one of the states (i think it was georgia... or one of the others) refused to drop its confederate flag, and i thought they were pompous bastards. then i moved to kentucky, im talkin appilachia lifestyle (if you dont know what that is, its something you cant really comprehend unless you experience it). but now i see the flag as a simple man's lifestyle, a life style where you have family values, and do your work and at the end of the day hold your head high. at no point in my life did i ever see people so happy and content with how they were, and proud of themselves at that. and when you can be happy with the simple things in life.... there is nothing sweeter. and when i look at the american flag, i see everything america stands for. and it is complicated... down south there was no political correctness, i have southern black friends that would just raz on me over being a yankee, white, you name it, and they didnt care that they were the butt of jokes too, because the see these as words for enjoyment without spite. but when you get away from that lifestyle and people start saying things like words hurt, they degrade others.

when i think of the american flag, i have pride, but i also have that creeping in the back of my mind, i must be correct, politically, emotionally... southern pride you dont have to worry about that, you can hold your head high, no words can bring you down, you can talk to your fellow man (even a stranger) without fear, or self reguarding. and that to me is the confederate flag, it is the lifestyle of happy, pridefull simplicity, the union and the confeds stopped fighting at the end of the civil war. now it is merely a way of life.

I understand that some people today like to romanticize the confederate flag and say it stands for "southern lifestyle" or any number of great things. The fact is it only represents one thing and that is the secession of a group of states from the union. This was not a good thing so I can't understand why anyone would still fly this flag some 120 years later.

To me it's not much different than if Germans were to still fly a Nazi flag today.

To me it's not much different than if Germans were to still fly a Nazi flag today.

i agree, the "southern lifestyle" sounds great and all, but this isn't really about that. the confederate flag was the southern state's symbol of their secession and desire to not be part of the United States. Just like how the Swastika was a symbol of Hitler's Nazi regime, his idea of a "perfect arian race", his hatred toward everyone that didn't fit the profile, and the holocaust, but you don't see them still flying it, saying that it symbolizes the "german lifestyle". in fact, they've gone far enough that wars games, like the medal of honor series that are shipped to germany have all nazi symbols censored out of them. if i'm not mistaken i think there are laws against flying a nazis flag in german. why shouldn't america do the same thing?

To me the Confed flag stands for rebellion or being a rebel..

To me the Confed flag stands for rebellion or being a rebel..

I agree. When i see one i dont automatically assume that person is a racist. To me thats just ignorant.

Southern pride.

Southern pride.
Well, white southern pride, anyways.

I do not think anyone who considers themselves to be 'black' take pride in that flag.

I think it's meaningless. It's been well over 100 years since that flag meant anything. If you wanted to know what it might mean, you should probably ask somebody who owns one. I doubt anybody buys one because they seriously think it represents white pride, or racial supremacy or some other sort of bullshit.
So far as I'm concerned though, it means as much in the context of present time as a spice girls poster.

Honestly, I think "Redneck" if i see that flag. no offense to anyone.

i agree with 2stroke, its been about 100 years since it ment "succession", you could also think of the heritage of the flag, it works as a reminder that the people is what made this nation, and we will fight for what we feel is right. the south was feeling oppressed,(i know not all of us remember all the reasons of the civil war... not like we memorized it, it was in a small section in our hist books) and basically the topic of slavery broke the horses back, thats why we remember it, think at the time we didnt have the machinery we have today. but going back, that was 100 years ago. all of our wounds as americans have healed and those that bore the scars are long turned to dust. so when you say symbol.... what does it represent? nothing, the reason for its being is done. thus its meaning is lost, until now where people are seeing it as a heritage and way of life

i have one in my room on my wall and to me it represents a time of freedom

a time when if someone fucked with you............you could fuck them up and not worry about going to jail or being sued

and for the record i have alot of black friends and none of them really care and a few of the have rebel flag shirts becuase it means the same thing to them


also people in the north are just pissed off that their flag doesnt look as bad ass as ours

i have one in my room on my wall and to me it represents a time of freedom

a time when if someone fucked with you............you could fuck them up and not worry about going to jail or being sued

sounds more like anarchy then freedom to me

also people in the north are just pissed off that their flag doesnt look as bad ass as ours

um...i assume you mean the american flag?

referring to the american flag as 'their flag' shows that you don't claim it yourself and that just supports what others have said about the confederate flag representing rebellion and secession from the United States.
still having the confederate flag fly just continues to harbor feelings of division between the north and south...there is no 'north' and 'south' anymore! the civil war is over! why can't people in the south realize this...we are all part of the United States of America and the Confederat flag goes against everything that stands for.

on a side note, i hope you realize that, if the south had succeeded in their secession, they would have deterieorated into a third world country if they even lasted long enough for that to happen. cotton and tobacco exports alone are not enough to sustain and develop a country. the north would have been fine because it was an industrialized and advanced country and had a vast shipping, ship building and fishing network, but the south would have soon fallen apart.

Clearly it means whatever the bearer wants it to. Much like most other "pop culture" symbols, the interpretation is up to the individual -- any actual significance it might have had to the culture at large died out a long time ago, although there are still significant differences between the north and the south to this day.

Clearly the south would have eventually crumbled without some sort of massive overhaul of its infrastructure, and let's face it: that wasn't about to come at the hands of a society whose wealthy (and hence investor) class generally justified (and prospered from) the "legal", bound servitude of one person to another. Not that the situation in the north was exactly "fair" for labor either (consider the factory situation by the turn of the century) but at least the industrial base was timely and relevant to the era.

the confederate flag was the southern state's symbol of their secession and desire to not be part of the United States. Just like how the Swastika was a symbol of Hitler's Nazi regime, his idea of a "perfect arian race", his hatred toward everyone that didn't fit the profile, and the holocaust, but you don't see them still flying it,

I think that is a pretty ridiculous comparison. Breaking from the union over the issue of state vs. federal rights is hardly the same as a tyrannical dictator who slaughtered innocent people based on their race. I mean how ignorant can you possibly be? I'm not contending that what the confederacy did was necessarily right, nor that the intentions of everyone involved were pure, but the general idea came from this:

"...that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles..."

Declaration of Independence, for those who don't remember. Anyhow, that war was over much more than slavery, and the federal government caused just as many problems as the confederacy did. For instance, Abe Lincoln issuing a decree that all slaves in the confederacy were free. 1. He had no actual authority in the confederacy 2. Why didn't he free the slaves in the north then as well?

Anyhow, I don't feel like giving a history lesson but let's just say there's always more to the story than you (or I) know. To answer the OP's question, it doesn't mean much to me, but it generally makes me think redneck. I live in south Alabama btw, on the gulf coast.

okay, so the comparison to nazi germany was a little extreme, but the basic idea is the same. the civil war era isnt exactly america's proudest moment, and that fact that the flag that, to me, symbolizes that whole ordeal has always seemed wrong to me.
germany moved on from it's horrific past and abolished the symbol of that time, and i think america should do the same thing...that's all i'm trying to say.
how are we supposed to build unity in america when so many people still hold tight to things that go back to an time of division?

"...that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles..."

Declaration of Independence, for those who don't remember.

i think the south's rationalization of their secession using the declaration of independence falls short.

a little farther down, it also gives conditions under which it is acceptable to overthrow government...

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

i realize that some actions of the union didn't help the situation, but i also don't think their actions can be described as "a long train of abuses and usurpations" that would more readily describe a tyrant rule, nor do i think that the south was pushed to "absolute despotism"


Anyhow, that war was over much more than slavery

i never said anything about slavery

hold on now deadbolt... there is a north and south and west. we still have those stereotypes today. i mean you cant tell me you have never heard a a southern hick joke... and southerners have their jokes of northerners. to specify there is no more suceded north and south. we may be together but there are still huge regional differences... i mean ive lived damn near everwhere in the contiguous US and for a time i lived in pitt, then i moved to KY, and you would be amazed the views they have... in pittsburgh the guy walking down the street didnt know jack about farming, and the southern farmer never understood the concept of the gangs in big cities. and neither of them knew what it was like living near denver CO.

but if you ask me these differences arent what split us apart, they are what hold us together. this diversity should be hailed as a good thing... even though we dont always agree. but i am really glad to see that noone here has totally gone off in an attempt to piss others off , or to overly defend themselves. cudos on that everyone.

but if you ask me these differences arent what split us apart, they are what hold us together. this diversity should be hailed as a good thing... even though we dont always agree.

i completely agree with that. when i talk about harboring feelings of division, i'm not talking about our cultural differences. america's great diversity is one it's strongest attributes. it's not like if the south let go of the confederate flag, they would lose their culture and identity. we can be united as american's and still hold to our regional and cultural differences.

when i see a confederate flag, it's not about cultural diversity, it's about political division, and that's what's not okay with me.

i know it's not like any of the southern states still have a desire to secede. why then, do they still embrace a flag that symbolizes a time when they did?

i understand what you are getting at, and while the confederate flag had its political ties, it no longer holds it's political... (im trying to think of the word) meaning, but it still has its cultural ties, and i think thats why it stays.

not to go off subject but texas too, it was its own nation (for a short time) before it became a state, its ex-national flag, is its state flag, but that is not seen as vulgar, cuz what is one of the first things that goes through your mind when you look at the texas flag... the alamo. americans fighting a foreign oppression.

i suppose you could also think of this as one of those "those that fail to recognise and learn from the past is doomed to repeat it" things. the flag acts as a constant reminder of what has happened, and what we had to do to become such a nation as we are today. and you could also say thay by banning this flag, it wuld be like banning a religion, or way of thinking, because it isnt with the flow of things... which is why the government cant get rid of the flag. our rights prevent it... otherwise im pretty sure they would limit the confederate flags use.

i understand what you are getting at, and while the confederate flag had its political ties, it no longer holds it's political... (im trying to think of the word) meaning, but it still has its cultural ties, and i think thats why it stays.

i suppose you could also think of this as one of those "those that fail to recognise and learn from the past is doomed to repeat it" things. the flag acts as a constant reminder of what has happened, and what we had to do to become such a nation as we are today. and you could also say thay by banning this flag, it wuld be like banning a religion, or way of thinking, because it isnt with the flow of things... which is why the government cant get rid of the flag. our rights prevent it... otherwise im pretty sure they would limit the confederate flags use.

toucher

not to go off subject but texas too, it was its own nation (for a short time) before it became a state, its ex-national flag, is its state flag, but that is not seen as vulgar, cuz what is one of the first things that goes through your mind when you look at the texas flag... the alamo. americans fighting a foreign oppression.

yeah, don't even get me started on texas, haha. people from texas that's i've met at school drive me crazy. theirs heads have been stuffed with superiority of all things texas crap. They're always quoting some guy who once said, "Texas could survive without the United States, but the United States couldn't survive without Texas." I've had to listen to some random person i've met from texas quote that to me more times than anyone should have to hear it, not to mention that they pledge allegiance to the texan flag in school, like how the rest of us pledge allegiance to the american flag...
sorry, i'll get off my soapbox now, i just had to get that off my chest

It's a flag that rednecks like to hang in their trucks. They act like they're racists, then they're driving by you playing Snoop Dogg.

true many i guys ive met from texas are big headed (amazingly the girls aint so bad) but whenever i i get a texan in my face saying crap like that i cant help but laugh... this could be cuz im thinking of the movie full metal jacket, where the drill seargant is busting on this texan i think the quote goes " only 2 things come from texas, steers and queers, and boy you aint got horns."

no offence to anyone here, ive just had my share of that too, and thats how i diffuse any anger i might get.

sounds more like anarchy then freedom to me



um...i assume you mean the american flag?

referring to the american flag as 'their flag' shows that you don't claim it yourself and that just supports what others have said about the confederate flag representing rebellion and secession from the United States.
still having the confederate flag fly just continues to harbor feelings of division between the north and south...there is no 'north' and 'south' anymore! the civil war is over! why can't people in the south realize this...we are all part of the United States of America and the Confederat flag goes against everything that stands for.

on a side note, i hope you realize that, if the south had succeeded in their secession, they would have deterieorated into a third world country if they even lasted long enough for that to happen. cotton and tobacco exports alone are not enough to sustain and develop a country. the north would have been fine because it was an industrialized and advanced country and had a vast shipping, ship building and fishing network, but the south would have soon fallen apart.



well on that note why dont you tell everyone in chicago (were my aunt is from) that there is'nt any north or south.


becuase ive been three times and every time i went i was laughed at becuase of the way i talked and was told by many many people to go back to the (south)



and i have an (american flag) on my other wall and my door

only 2 things come from texas, steers and queers, and boy you aint got horns.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I think you people are putting way too much thought into this. It's just a way to say, "yeah, I'm from the South and I got the flag to show it." I wish it had more meaning than that but it doesn't. Yeah there are a few that take it way, way out there.
The majority of people though that show it I've seen here are high school kids or adults in their 20's. Why do they do it? They think it's cool and are like, "yeah! I'm from the South boy! I'm a real rebel!" Whatever floats their boat. I'll admit I was like that when I was around 13 but I got out of it.

believe me vwracer i have had been told the exact same thing from northerners and southerners. the funny thing is that east and west hold their own little grudges too.

believe me vwracer i have had been told the exact same thing from northerners and southerners. the funny thing is that east and west hold their own little grudges too.

this is true, but it's nice to see all of the regions come together in peace and harmony when it comes to dumping their nuclear waste in Nevada...oh, except for Nevada, but nobody actually lives there, so it's okay.

this is true, but it's nice to see all of the regions come together in peace and harmony when it comes to dumping their nuclear waste in Nevada...oh, except for Nevada, but nobody actually lives there, so it's okay.



i thought thats were we dumped those damn indians to:icon16:

i thought thats were we dumped those damn indians to

:lol2: yeah, those too

effing indians, live off my tax dollars, hiding out on their reservations. they all get monthly checks from the government, they don't have to pay taxes, they get first dibs on things like hunting tags. i knew a couple when i was in high school, they'd get money from the government for getting good grades or for playing sports. very few actually graduate from high school. i mean, why would you when the government is giving you everything you need? it's ridiculous...

Southern Pride. Heritage, not hate. That flag stood for a side of the most deadly(To Americans) war in our history as a country. Some people do see it as a hate sign(Like black folks at my church), si took mine of of my Civic. It was in the shape of a "Thumbs Up". I saw a couple of lesbian gals running around with one that said "You lost, get over it." They miss the point. That flag, and that war for that matter was about a lot more than hating blacks or keeping slaves. Politeness, generosity, and a general way of living life as good as we can, without being obsessed with money and status. Like when someone brings you a container of your favorite dish, just because they thought of you when they were making it. And further to the point, returning it, not clean, but full of one of their favorites. Brotherhood. The way things ought to be.

I doubt anybody buys one because they seriously think it represents white pride, or racial supremacy or some other sort of bullshit.

There are a few who do buy them and keep them for that reason. Not many just like .5% or so. Especially in a town in Texas its called Vider or something to that extent. Not one non white family was in that town 7yrs back cuz it was all white arian brothers. rather filthy town. Some hang it though just because it is a part of the southern heritage but those are only white people,majority rednecks. Not one black friend or latino would ever buy one cuz to them it does mean that your rascist. Rather sad actually it's just a flag and all the bs happened for ever ago

Matter of fact when I was growing up there was a confederate flag with dead soldiers coming out of the middle that read the south will rise again. still see one here and there

Southern Pride. Heritage, not hate. That flag stood for a side of the most deadly(To Americans) war in our history as a country. Some people do see it as a hate sign(Like black folks at my church), si took mine of of my Civic. It was in the shape of a "Thumbs Up". I saw a couple of lesbian gals running around with one that said "You lost, get over it." They miss the point. That flag, and that war for that matter was about a lot more than hating blacks or keeping slaves. Politeness, generosity, and a general way of living life as good as we can, without being obsessed with money and status. Like when someone brings you a container of your favorite dish, just because they thought of you when they were making it. And further to the point, returning it, not clean, but full of one of their favorites. Brotherhood. The way things ought to be.

finnally, someone else who gets it.

Southern Pride. Heritage, not hate. That flag stood for a side of the most deadly(To Americans) war in our history as a country. Some people do see it as a hate sign(Like black folks at my church), si took mine of of my Civic. It was in the shape of a "Thumbs Up". I saw a couple of lesbian gals running around with one that said "You lost, get over it." They miss the point. That flag, and that war for that matter was about a lot more than hating blacks or keeping slaves. Politeness, generosity, and a general way of living life as good as we can, without being obsessed with money and status. Like when someone brings you a container of your favorite dish, just because they thought of you when they were making it. And further to the point, returning it, not clean, but full of one of their favorites. Brotherhood. The way things ought to be.

yeah i think so too but as much as you explain most people are gonna think racism when it comes to the flag, in history class last year when we started on the civil war we had about 2 racial fights just because of the flag (this chick had a shirt with the rebel flag on it.) i'm a black guy who has southern pride and i don't really give a fuck about the flag, maybe 'm weird or i'm just tryin to piss other black people off. nobody knows

That flag is always going to be a 2edged sword. People are always going to have mixed thoughts about. Being a southern boy myself I could care less.

The confederate flag represents different things to different people. The civil war wasn't about slavery at all, it was about state's rights. The states of the south resented the federal government's attempt to force them to compromise their way of life to support what the politicians in Washington wanted and they resented it and rose up against the government. Thus the Civil War!!

Today the confederate flag has come to represent racism as defined by a by-gone era. To me that flag simply represents the past, nothing more, although a lot of southerners still refuse to believe that the War Between the States is over. That is why they cling to the confederate flag as a symbol of their ancestry. Also there are still organizations in the south such as the Daughters of the Confederacy who still celebrate that heritage daily.

What does the confederate flag mean to me NOTHING at all!!

a few black friends of mine stated that when they see anyone with that flag(like on the back of a pick-up truck or something), they automatically assume racist.
they do not think full on, burn crosses, klan racist, but more along the lines of subtly, cross the street, and privately supremacist.


people like that are racist

:werd:

heres a concept to ponder on... it struck me funny when it hit me. if a white person has a confederate flag, and a black person considers it offencive and condems the white guy for it... is that also racism? or something else? i thought deeper into it... and how would the reasoning change if it were a black guy with the flag... and another black person is condeming him.

heres a concept to ponder on... it struck me funny when it hit me. if a white person has a confederate flag, and a black person considers it offencive and condems the white guy for it... is that also racism? or something else? i thought deeper into it... and how would the reasoning change if it were a black guy with the flag... and another black person is condeming him.

:smokin: That is a very interesting segue of the discussion. Go one step further and consider displaying an American [U.S.] Stars and Stripes against the Conf. flag. That could also fit into your concept.

i have 5 of them in my room, deal with it you fucking yankees, haha

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/milton666/cfhchrome.jpg
that's me and my big flag

watch it we aint all yanks around here.

Not all of us are necks either we still from the dirty south though! And in case ya hadn't notice we werent talking trash bout your flag we were talking bout how some people perceive it.

Now since you seem to be pridefull of it what does it mean to you? That is another thing we were talking bout.

careful about using the term "your" when you refer to the american flag... that last guy caught hell for it... and i dont want to see another fight on this thread over something as petty as that.


but the american flag to me is a symbol of pride. but its a different style, the confed flag represents (to me) the hands dirty, job done at the end of the day, pride. the american flag is a symbol of strength and power (but in a clean way). personally i dont like "the clean way" which is often used and abused in ways like "double talk". like how many politicians are portrayed.

careful about using the term "your" when you refer to the american flag... that last guy caught hell for it... and i dont want to see another fight on this thread over something as petty as that.
.
Dude I wasn't talking bout the American Flag i was talking bout the confed. flag. And I used the term your for the confed flag cuz it is his flag, he is representing that flag. Kind of like me asking you how is your fav team doing. Not disrespectfull. I'm from Va. and lived all over the south. What that flag reps to me is just some of our heritage and our past and thats bout it for me.

ohhh sorry. i thought you were goin to be like that last guy. i hate it when people get all pissed at each other over stuff like that.

Its' alright no worries
Nah everyone has their own beliefs and I have mine. I don't knock on anyone for it unless it's in good fun. I respect almost everyones beliefs.

careful about using the term "your" when you refer to the american flag... that last guy caught hell for it... and i dont want to see another fight on this thread over something as petty as that.


but the american flag to me is a symbol of pride. but its a different style, the confed flag represents (to me) the hands dirty, job done at the end of the day, pride. the american flag is a symbol of strength and power (but in a clean way). personally i dont like "the clean way" which is often used and abused in ways like "double talk". like how many politicians are portrayed.

that's deep, i just thought it looked cool

what's on my shirt in that picture is basically what it means to me "fuck yall" (anyone who doesn't like it) "im from texas" (im proud of my heritage and like to show it) the confederate "rebel" flag to me just screams four-wheelin in the mud, drinkin beers, and havin good dirty fun... the shit i grew up doing down here (the south) basically it's just an easy way to let people know who you are... not necesarilly a racist thing allthough it's very understandable to see how it can be perceived like that by people who aren't exactly "southern"

here's the biggest thing to end all this stupid petty controversy. The Confederate flag is no different from a Star of David.

*hands go up* "The Confederate flag though is actaually offensive to some people unlike the Star of David which is just a representation of someone's belief."

Thank you, I know; as is the confederate flag. Although it may have some BS meaning behind it that isn't its true meaning, it's still just another person's belief symbol.

"What about..."

The swastika is another symbol that has no meaning unless put into action. Oh hot dog, i got it. Stupid site is down. Here's the best way to put it. Everything can be offeisive depending on how you use it. Other than that, it's just a symbol of someone's beliefs. Even a cross held a horrible meaning at some point. The KKK used to burn it on people's lawns! JUst because a flag is there, doesn'tmake someone a bad person. It just shows a small part of who they are or may be. thank you.

JUst because a flag is there, doesn'tmake someone a bad person. It just shows a small part of who they are or may be.

yea basically what i was at least trying to say

a couple of friends and i were actually talking about this early today. and one of them had a decent opinion. he said he thought it had a small "no nation meaning" of course after hearing that we had him illaborate. now has anyone read "man without a country"?

if you havent here's a brief overview. end of civil war. trials are taking place over some soldiers, and one gives this great speech about when the confederacy died so did he. in turn he was sentenced to never set foot on american soil ever again. he lived on a naval boat for the rest of his life.

the connection to what he was saying is that some people (especially those that rarely have contact with others... you know... the "sneeze and miss the whole town" town. and the big decisions that the government makes rarely effects what they do. so because they dont feel they are apart of the us as a whole... they see themselves as "southerners" in a regional aspect.

this is not my belief but i wanted to hear what you all though of it.

That flag reminds me of a certain 1969 Charger.

The "Dixie" is the rectangular naval version of the Confederate battle flag called the Navy Jack. Dixie is still used to refer to the easy living of the South

Politeness, generosity, and a general way of living life as good as we can, without being obsessed with money and status.

"Republicans argued that a clique of wealthy planters, the Slave Power, dominated the South, and the nation as a whole. (Indeed Southerners played a predominant role in the federal government, supplying most of the nation's Presidents, Speakers of the House of Representatives, and Chief Justices of the Supreme Court.) Though historians have recently emphasized that the South was much more democratic than Northerners believed, the Slave Power image gripped the Northern imagination. White Southerners, by contrast, seeing a threat to their society by fanatical and conspiratorial abolitionists, the underground railroad, and, most ominously, the violent activities of John Brown, felt a sense that they were under siege."

To me the flag represents unity, like what was displayed during the Civil War (so I hear) and the "what's mine is yours" mentality of friendly southern neighbors. For some it represents racism and slavery, but a better flag would be the thirteen stars and stripes more or less, since all colonies practiced slavery shamelessly.


"Americans typically grow up believing that slavery was confined to the cotton fields of the South and that the North was always made up of free states. The fact that slavery was practiced all over the early United States often comes as a shock to people in places like New York (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/15/opinion/15thu3.html?ex=1292302800&en=3139bb702358ce54&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss), where the myth of the free North has been surprisingly durable."

where did you get those quotes from? im just curious.

:disappoin Wow!Some of you folks need to learn more about history.
The Confederate flag originated during the Civil war(duh),
but the Klan did not start using it untill the 1950's.

The flag WAS about heritage-NOT hate.:nono:

Another history lesson-The Nazi party was just that-A political party.Not all Germans were Nazis.To compare a Swaztika to the Confederate Flag is beyond ignorance.:screwy:

zx2guy (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=429827) - first quote from this thread, second from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War) and last from here (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/15/opinion/15thu3.html?ex=1292302800&en=3139bb702358ce54&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

Ztrain (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=399998) - When I see a swastika the first thing my mind associates with is the Nazi flag, and then what images I subconsciously see, which are negative. If the KKK used the Confederate flag as recently as the 50's, its easy to see why many would feel uneasy seeing it anywhere, I assume especially black people.

I see the confederate flag as people claiming something they are not a part of. The world in the 1800s was not comparable to our world now. The people who created the flag went through a time that none of us were there for. But generally it was meant to separate their region from the rest of the states who wanted to abolish slavery. There was really no good reason for this flag's existence in the first place. The meaning of it now is skewed, but I don't understand why anybody would choose that particular symbol to describe their way of life. I don't believe the civil war was started because the North didn't agree with their lifestyle of "work hard, play hard, and raise my chin at the end of the day". Thats rather silly. And I think its just as silly to take a symbol from over a century ago which has no real meaning today and place so much pride in it that you would put a full banner across the back of your pickup. It's like if people adopted the gay flag and began to claim it with new meanings. It still is a symbol of gayness, and you would be better off creating your own new flag, just like the people did in the times of the civil war.

I think they would more than likely be disgraced to see all the different ways southerners are abusing it now.

well, to me it's a flag, it represents nothing. im not american so i tag no "national pride" to it. it's a symbol people used to show they shared certain views, it's no different to wearing a t-shirt for a certain band, that shows you like that band. flying or owning flag means (or at least should mean) you are one of the people that follows or shares beliefs of others, who use that flag to show people they're part of a group with certain beliefs.

sorry if that made no sense, its 7:40am and i didn't sleep.