eclipse vs. vette please explain

alright, just to get it straight i'm not trying to piss anyone off. So hear it goes. I just bought a 94 vette, i know a few kids with gst or gsx eclipses, all of them paid anywhere from 12 - 17 for they're car, i paid 14 for my vette, mint condition, 60k, 6 spd. Now why is it they are all talking sh*t about how they can almost beat me after they're mods, which they can't, but apparantly they think a 14.4 to a 13.9 quarter is almost beating me. Honestly your comparing oranges to apples, if i spent the same amount on my car that they did on theirs they woudn't even come close. SO for those of you that like to compare your modded cars to stock sports cars stop it because there is no comparison.

another domestic vs imports comparison:rolleyes:

no its not about domestic vs. import to me, its about people always comparing there modded cars to mine thinking that i can't go out and do the same thing and it gets old. Don't get me wrong i love fast cars and respect them, but i can't say the same for some of the owners.

Just look at it this way, yes they have a modded 4cyl and you have a stock 8 which I believe is a 350 correct? Look at it this way, vettes have double the room for producing power,8 cyl vs. 4 cyl, 5.8 litres vs. 2.0 and 6 speed versus 5. And all you have on them is a half a second? In my book they are close. And btw, wait for the Evo VII and you will see a 2.0 smoke you. Nothing personal but america doesnt know how to make a car fast. You want to keep up with the everchanging and drastically improving import scene? Do yourself a favor and contact John Lingenfelter. I think he might be able to help you keep up.

They are spending there money the wrong way then. I could spend about 1500 more and be around 5500 total on my car and run low 12s. I have other priorities right now though, like keeping my car in one piece. Both import and domestic need to realize that everyone is reaching for the same goal, to go fast, we just each have our weapon of choice. By the way, don't let those kids make you think DSMs are slow. John Shepperd ran a 9.70 in the 1/4 and Dejan Dan Cokic ran a 9.77, both of these are street cars driven to the track. Also realize, that atleast in my group of DSM friends, we hate the rice cars just as much as the V8 guys do.

ok what i'm saying is yeah i only have them buy half a second, but they spent a total of any where from 15 to 18k with the car, the guy at 14.4 spent about 18, which leaves me with 4k to spend. So what i'm saying is if i put 3k into my car i can guarantee at least low 12's, so thats back to 2 - 2.5 seconds again. All i am saying is modding an eclipse to be as fast as a vette buy that time you could have bought a vette and then some, now i'm not saying everyone should have a corvette, but those that buy other cars and modd them should compare them to other modded cars, because I haven't even started modding, i've spent less money and i'm still faster, but i can do everything else better too. After all you don't see me comparing myself to a viper. And even if i did i could get my car that fast and spend less then what it costs to buy one. If it costed more to mod my car i would just buy the viper and start from there.

I see your point if you only wanted to get the fastest car for the dollar. But I like my Talon more than almost all vettes except brand new ones. I got my car for $8k and after mods I will have spent probably around $13k, I will make it run low 12 second passes reliably off my stock internals 2.0 ltr motor. Amazing that a 4 cylinder could beat a vette? Yes can the vette be faster? Definetly. There is no replacement for displacement, sure turbos compansate but turbo a v8 and it will anihillate(sp?) any 4 cyl turbo you can throw at it(assuming both are at the same level of mods). I got my car so I can race modded v8's I'm tired of ricers.

PS The beauty of turbo is a large enough one on the freeway to top speed doesn't stop pulling till it runs out of tranny.

If you don't like them talkin trash invite them to the track and pound them all one 1/4 mile blast at a time. Just be sure when you go that you have what you think you have or be prepared to take more trash. And if they say well i was close then pull a f&f "dosent matter if you win by an inch or a mile"

I've spent around 5000 total on my car, including buying it, and it runs mid 13s my first time at the track. The examples you provide us with are not legitimate. If someone spent over 18k in mods for a 14.4 second eclipse, then they are dumb and do not stand for the rest of the DSM community. In case you haven't heard, a C5 corvette guy was talking trash to a turbo civic, and when they finally raced, the civic murdered him. And honestly, how much do you even know about eclipses?? Can you tell me the power potential on the stock internals?? Oh, and by the way, we killed a Viper in my friends modded C4 (452@ the wheels).

Originally posted by ECTurboGSX
I've spent around 5000 total on my car, including buying it, and it runs mid 13s my first time at the track. The examples you provide us with are not legitimate. If someone spent over 18k in mods for a 14.4 second eclipse, then they are dumb and do not stand for the rest of the DSM community. In case you haven't heard, a C5 corvette guy was talking trash to a turbo civic, and when they finally raced, the civic murdered him. And honestly, how much do you even know about eclipses?? Can you tell me the power potential on the stock internals?? Oh, and by the way, we killed a Viper in my friends modded C4 (452@ the wheels).

I saw that thread about the Civic vs Vette over on some place called Corvette Forums (something like that)... I don't remember the 'Vette guy having a lot of mods... I'm sure the Civic guy was moded to hell...

*shrugs* A Geo Metro could beat a Corvette if you threw enough money at it... its all about who wants to spend the most money on their car...

-Grendel

spent 18 including the car, newer eclipse. Like i said before i respect the cars just not some of the owners and these guys i mentioned i have no respect for. Its all status. Sure there is always someone that dollar for dollar is going to be faster.

Im not the biggest car expert in the world but this is the way i see it. Your Vette brand new was probably between 30 and 40 thousand bills. My turbo eclipse GSX was 16,500 brand new. Your car is double the car with a V8 and worth twice as much. Im thinking that your friends are driving the 3rd generation 95-99 modles witch were a lil bit more expencive. But hey, enough bullshit. What im trying to say is I would hope that ur car would destroy them. Its not in the same class as them. This is like comparing the star Varsity Football player to the Star Junior high football player. Just my opinion.

PS...That Jr. High football player could always grow up to kick the Varsity Football Players ass...go dsm.

(95-99 is second generation, the new ones are 3rd generation), but otherwise, I agree.

My bad...I know alot of people that consider the 92-94 modles 2g.

everyone is missing my point here, my point is the fact that even if they did beat me they are still asses and don't know shit, everyone here that has posted something i'm fine with, i'm just had to vent about these stupid shits, so if you know anyone like this tel them to shut up. The point i'm making is that more often than not people are comparing there cars to a vette, don't know why but thats the way it is. Now even if they are faster, there comparing a modded car to a stock car. They seem to forget that i could have bought a 4k car and did 12 of mods and been whuppin some serious ass, but they are the ones still insisting i can almost beat a vette and there is no point. Who gives a shit, is what i'm trying to say.

You evidently did and thats why you posted it. I cant wait for us to get some real fast stock (a la JDM STi and EVO) 4 bangers here To shut your whinning, yammering trap up.

...I think some of you are just completely forgetting the fact that its fun to mod a car to be fast. You want a stock out-a-the-box rocket, get your `Vette. Some of us consider our cars, our hobbies however...

I drive a `66 Bug and I about to drop a 2L Porche block in it :P Its fun, and thats all I care about.

I know for me that there is a satisfying feeling in being able to say that my 4 cyl. 2.0L can go toe to toe with a 8 cyl 5.7L corvette. The car is a legend and I strive to make my car that fast, even if the vette is stock. I enjoy working on my car. I don't think that any import lover will say that in the long run the vette's capabilities are far greater than that of any import on the market. However, with the same dollar amount pumped in to each car, I think the DSM will be faster, for the pure fact that everything for a vette costs 1k. I have a friend modding his vette right now and everything he buy's for it cost a grand plus.

First off, I own neither a Vette or an eclipse, in fact I came to this board to look into buying and modding a 1st gen gsx for rally but I completely agree with n1kki6. I am an import lover but import fans can be idiots at times. The size of you engine does not matter and your gas mileage does not matter (and in a race car reliabilty doesn't matter but most of us have daily drivers not race cars). Its all about how fast and how well your car can handle.

It doesn't really matter how you got there. 4 cylinder, straight 6, v6, v8, turbo, supercharged, naturally aspired, rotary, steam engine, pogo stick or a fucking red wagon being pulled by your german shepard. Its all a matter of preference. n1kki6 got a damn good deal on a vette and whoops eclipses asses, who cares that his engine is a 350, he paid less for it so he wins races. Saying that his car can't pull more hp per liter is just silly and makes you look like a sore loser.

The same thing applies to people who put $10k into their $20k Integras to beat a $25 mustang. How can you brag about that? It makes no sense. Granted if you are concerned about handling obviously are better of with the Integra but the majority of import tuners only drag race and couldn't corner at high speeds for their life.

n1kki6 don't worry about what uninformed import tuners say, just be happy that you can spank them and don't listen to their delusional excuses.

the main idea of Jap cars is value for money. In the vette vs. eclipse case maybe it is a bad example. but here in the UK you can pay about £150,000 (about $200,000)?) for an Aston Martin Vanquish (which believe me is better than you're Viper/Vette in every way). You can then buy something like a Nissan Skyline R34 GT-R for £54,000 (about $80,000?) and invest about £40,000 ($60,000?) tuning it. So for less than £100,000 you can have a car that will out-accelerate, out-handle, out-anything the Vanquish. There are alot of other cheap cars this will work for, and even more so if you buy second hand.

In short, it is paying a little money to make a car beat something that is twice to three times the price.

I agree but not all japanese cars are a good value for your money and not all american cars are not a bad value for your money. $40k a new vette is a great deal and there is nothing offered in the same range from Japan. Also if you are only concerned about 1/4 mile times, a Mustang is a much better buy than anything from Japan, stock it pull great times and can be just as easily modded as anything from Japan. If you want to autocross or solo race, japan is the best performance but for straight line speed, american is the way to go. Personally, my next car is a 350z because I like to go fast and handle well but to each their own.

Originally posted by Gravitom
I agree but not all japanese cars are a good value for your money and not all american cars are not a bad value for your money. $40k a new vette is a great deal and there is nothing offered in the same range from Japan. Also if you are only concerned about 1/4 mile times, a Mustang is a much better buy than anything from Japan, stock it pull great times and can be just as easily modded as anything from Japan. If you want to autocross or solo race, japan is the best performance but for straight line speed, american is the way to go. Personally, my next car is a 350z because I like to go fast and handle well but to each their own.

ye, but Japanese cars ARE generally better value for money. IMO, straight line speed is the least important measure of speed, and how often do you get the chance to floor the car for a whole 1/4 mile. A car needs to be quick 0-60, and from about 30-90. But handling is by far the best measure of performance. Japan can offer the best of both worlds. You're Mustang can be equal to a Skyline in the quarter, but i very much doubt you could ever get a 1000hp Mustang or Vette to handle aswell as a 1000hp Skyline or Supra

I completely agree, in fact my favorite car is the Supra and I care much more about handling than straight line speed. My point is that there are many import tuners that only care about drag racing and for drag racing an american car is better than an import, dollar for dollar. I would never own a Mustang because I couldn't give a rat's ass about straightline speed. But if I suffered some brain injury and actually cared about drag racing, I would buy a Mustang over any Japanese car because that is what they are good at.

Originally posted by Gravitom
First off, I own neither a Vette or an eclipse, in fact I came to this board to look into buying and modding a 1st gen gsx for rally but I completely agree with n1kki6. I am an import lover but import fans can be idiots at times. The size of you engine does not matter and your gas mileage does not matter (and in a race car reliabilty doesn't matter but most of us have daily drivers not race cars). Its all about how fast and how well your car can handle.

actually to me, some of that is important.


my personal car is an integra. and mine isnt at all going to keep up with that guys vette, or even thew slower eclipses, mine probably runs a 15.5 at the very best but ive never run it so i dont know.

But for me, a perfect car involves the handling, the acceleration, the way it feels drivign it, the room inside, and even the gas mileage, and yes the reliability as well.
sure I would like a car that runs 12's. but If i had to spend more money, have less room, enjoy driving les and pay double the price for gas, AND have a car that is only going to last half as long, I just wouldnt do it.

Like I said earlier, I have around 6 grand in my car including buying it and it ran a 13.5 my first time at the track (ie no prior experience). The eclipses that talked shit are idiots, but that does not mean that imports are not fast. You find me a street driven domestic on street tires that drives to the track and runs mid 9s. Jon Shepperd drives his 91 talon to the track and runs 9.7s at over 155. Imports are fast, and I gurantee he has less money in it then some of those nitro methane supercharged big block cars.

yeah, I was looking at stuff to mod a GSX and I found all the stuff to make it run like high 10's for like 10 grand or less if you just look around, then after the price of like 8500 on the car itself, you got 18k which is alot cheaper than those big blocks and just about as fast, I think the funny cars were at like 10.2 or so when i looked last. but I didnt know enough about tuning or anything to try it at all. and I still probably dont but once i get better at this stuff, you can be sure Im gonna do it ;)

To the vette owner's: The import guys talk just as much smack to there own, as they do to the big blocks. :sun:

Originally posted by 94tegRS


actually to me, some of that is important.




People who put $10k worth of mods on their car are not concerned about an extra 2 miles to the gallon for gas. People who put on aftermarket turbos are not concerned about reliability. And how much hp/liter your car makes (although impressive for the manufacturer) means absolutely nothing about your cars performance. People just like to brag about something, despite how meaningless it is.

says who, I know people who put turbos on their cars and still worry about reliability. people I know arent SERIOUS racers, we driveour cars verywhere we go so we need them to last a long time and not cost a shit-load in gas. and sorry, but old vettes get a lot worse gas mileage than integras, eclipses and such. way more than a difference of 2mpg.

aftermarket turbos wont always reduce reliability. only when they start putting on heavier mods will they reduce reliability and fuel consumption down to the levels of old US muscle cars. there is recent feature in a UK magazine about a Supra running 860hp that still managed about 14-15 mpg. from what i hear stock vettes arent much above this.

And how much hp/liter your car makes (although impressive for the manufacturer) means absolutely nothing about your cars performance. People just like to brag about something, despite how meaningless it is.

hp per litre just gives you an idea of how unreliable a car is likely to be, if it is being stressed too much. straight line performance is best measured with power/weight.

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R

hp per litre just gives you an idea of how unreliable a car is likely to be

Huh? What is the logic behind this?

I am not sure but im guessing that the more power you are getting out of a certain size engine shows how much stress it has.


example

take 2 B18B 1.8 liter honda engines and put I/H/E on one of them and have maybe 155 HP. that is only about 86 HP per liter. but If you were to build up that engine to say 250 or 300 HP, youd have between 139 and 167 HP per liter. which engine do you think is gonna have more stress on its parts? which one do you think will last longer?

yup, 94tegRS has got it right, its not a definite rule, but it works in most cases

This has to be the most retarded thing I've ever heard. An S2000 gets more hp/litre than any production car and is extremely reliable. Chyslers cars and trucks have very low hp/litre ratios and have the worst reliabilty of any car manufacturer. Honda and Toyota have some of the highest hp/litre ratios and have consistantly been the most reliable for years.

Compression ratio would be a better idicator of stress on parts but even that wouldn't provide and accurate estimate.

And even if you are going by modded cars there are plenty of mods that will provide hp increase without changing reliablilty. Intake, exhaust, porting and polishing heads, lighter weight moving parts, better cooling, tweaked air/fuel mixture will do nothing to lesser reliability.

the examples you listed are more to do with quality of manufacture, and as i said before it is not a definite rule. Honda are very reliable no matter what car u talk about, whereas Chrysler are shit basically.

think about it, you have a 5.0 engine pushing 250 hp, so thats 50bhp/litre. now an engine can cope with that pretty easily yeh, no stress on the internals or anything. but if you take a 2.5 litre and tune it to 500hp, then it has 200bhp/litre, which means that each litre of capacity has to cope with the stress of 150hp more than the 5.0 engine.

Look at F1 cars, they string out every last hp (i think this years Williams makes around 875bhp) they can from a tiny little 3.0 engine. now you are telling me that they are gonna last you over 100,000 miles like many cars will/should. this IS an extreme example, and i cant stress enough that this rule doesnt always apply, but it is true in alot of cases.

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R

Look at F1 cars, they string out every last hp (i think this years Williams makes around 875bhp) they can from a tiny little 3.0 engine. now you are telling me that they are gonna last you over 100,000 miles like many cars will/should. this IS an extreme example, and i cant stress enough that this rule doesnt always apply, but it is true in alot of cases.

I don't know why, but I feel the need to point out that these engines are rebuilt after every race.

I don't know why, but I feel the need to point out that these engines are rebuilt after every race.

exactly, and they still dont always manage to make the 200 or so miles of the race. same goes for road going drag cars, such as the highly tuned Japanese cars, they are constantly being rebuilt once they get above about 800-900 hp.

That is just a increase in hp over stock and has nothing to do with engine displacement. You take a car with 100hp/liter and one with 50hp/liter and tune them to make 100% more horsepower each, they will have roughly the same loss in reliability. The intial and ending hp/liter is irrelevant.

put it this way. take two 2.0 litre 200hp engines, tuned or non tuned, up to you. Tune one to 400hp (200bhp/litre), tune the other to 600hp (300bhp/litre), which do you think now has the most pressure on its internals? and therefore which do you think is gonna last longer??

now if that 600hp is in a 6.0 litre to start with (only 100bhp/litre) then it is gonna be more reliable because the internals are under a bit less pressure.

Originally posted by w8n4myevo
Just look at it this way, yes they have a modded 4cyl and you have a stock 8 which I believe is a 350 correct? Look at it this way, vettes have double the room for producing power,8 cyl vs. 4 cyl, 5.8 litres vs. 2.0 and 6 speed versus 5. And all you have on them is a half a second? In my book they are close. And btw, wait for the Evo VII and you will see a 2.0 smoke you. Nothing personal but america doesnt know how to make a car fast. You want to keep up with the everchanging and drastically improving import scene? Do yourself a favor and contact John Lingenfelter. I think he might be able to help you keep up.


ahh you were so close! the Chevy 350 is 5.7 liters, not 5.8. I know who cares? Well it just gets to me, cause the 5.8 is a Ford 351... ughh Ford! haha kidding. Just informing you is all, so we can all know the same shit! YAY!

Hey Redneck, nice ride. What 1/4 miles do you run? Is your Nova street legal? I assume its stripped because of its 3000lbs weight.

I personally think this thread is stupid. No one knows the reliability of a built engine setup, thats why you keep tabs on it. Only stock cars with a history of like 5-10+ years can you have a good idea of reliability. B/c they all were the same and all should have high miles. Where a built engine with or without turbo or supercharger you dont know whats gonna happen. Granted it's a good guess that a 500hp civic will break a lot compared to a 500hp corvette, but a civic doesnt need 500hp to match up with a 500hp corvette b/c of the weight. A civic would need only around 300-350hp to match up with a 500hp corvette. There are too many factors to take in. I think the fact of hooking up a car or thinking your car is fast is to beat another car. If I race you and I beat you, I dont want you saying, "we'll you have more hp" or "we'll you have more money in your car." I dont care, you thought your car was faster than mine, you wanted to race me, just take the lose. I dont want to hear crying and excuses. It's all about winning, plain and simple!!!

PS: And for n1kki6, so you have a corvette and import guys/girls are talking shit. You should race them to prove them wrong. If you win and your car is faster, then like I said before, "Plain and simple, your car is faster."

is that a Veilside kit you have on you're Supra??? looks nice, what internal mods have you done?

Yeah, its the full veilside kit. Thats my old supra, I sold it March of this year. I'm picking up my new supra this weekend, its being tuned right now as we speak and getting parts put in it. The supra's internals are fine and reliable for around 700hp, so not a necessity until you want a fuking beast...

Originally posted by vtecthis
The supra's internals are fine and reliable for around 700hp, so not a necessity until you want a fuking beast...

Don't we all want fuking beasts?:devil:

Yeah, I'm sure we all want fuking beasts, but most of us cant afford it. Costs roughly $13-$20k for a full worked to the bone long block engine and then you have to add labor on top of that. Secondly thats only the engine, now you have to buy everything to go along with it. You'll end up spending around $35k if you build a stock supra into a 900rwhp fuking beast. Thats not including the initial price of the supra and if everything goes right, hehe

You could buy a new acura tl type s and still have $3k left over for the amount you spend on parts and labor. Depends on your priorities, wants, and budget...

and for 35k that Supra would scare the hell out of a McLaren F1

35k into any car should scare the hell out of a McLaren.

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R
and for 35k that Supra would scare the hell out of a McLaren F1

You're kidding right? I am going to find that link where a 950hp supra raced an F1. The F1 totally destroyed that Supra - it wasn't even close.













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Originally posted by vtecthis
You could buy a new acura tl type s and still have $3k left over for the amount you spend on parts and labor. Depends on your priorities, wants, and budget...

Isn't the TL type S front wheel drive? If so, wheres the fun in that?

Originally posted by YogsVR4
You're kidding right? I am going to find that link where a 950hp supra raced an F1. The F1 totally destroyed that Supra - it wasn't even close.


Haha, I saw that video... the asian guy in the Supra was laughing as he got his ass handed to him... It was a funny vid...

-Grendel

i have that F1 vs Veilside Supra video. I also have the same Supra racing an F40. On the F1 vid the guy got such a shit start, so much that he shaved a second of his 1/4 mile time with the F40. And secondly that Supra isnt the proper 1039bhp Veilside Supra. I would be surprised if the car in the vid was anywhere near the real Veilside Supra.

And anyway i never said it would beat the F1, just it would scare it, and i think it would do if you only beat it by half a second on 1/4 mile in you're £650,000 car.

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R
i have that F1 vs Veilside Supra video. I also have the same Supra racing an F40. On the F1 vid the guy got such a shit start, so much that he shaved a second of his 1/4 mile time with the F40. And secondly that Supra isnt the proper 1039bhp Veilside Supra. I would be surprised if the car in the vid was anywhere near the real Veilside Supra.

And anyway i never said it would beat the F1, just it would scare it, and i think it would do if you only beat it by half a second on 1/4 mile in you're £650,000 car.

I guess if I had an F1, I wouldn't be intimidated by anything. I dont care what it is. Just having an F1 means that I am at the top of the heep on the street because I know the only way to get in my league is by turn the car into something it wasn't when it was produced.













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Yeah, that video said nothing for supras. A BPU supra can do low 12's, even a BPU supra on NOS (80-100shot) can do high 11's. If you put on a single turbo and didnt get low low 11's or high 10's, then you are doing something wrong. Shit even Craig Paisley's supra ran something like 8.14, and that was with a stock engine (rods, pistons, cams, etc). So that video really didnt mean anything at all...

There is a joke we have: Besides being a Supra, what is the 1 main thing that a 400hp supra, a 500hp supra, and a 600hp supra have in common??

The answer after a few guesses.

Originally posted by ECTurboGSX
There is a joke we have: Besides being a Supra, what is the 1 main thing that a 400hp supra, a 500hp supra, and a 600hp supra have in common??

The answer after a few guesses.

They spin it all away on the launch? *shrugs* Thats the only thing I can think of... after reading guys posts on supraforums.com, it seems they all can't get a good launch...

Anyways... whats the answer?

-Grendel

okay...if you think your 91-whatever cor(ooh look at me i've got a)vette is any kind of fast.. think again. yeah i am all into imports, as i just bought an eclipse gs-t, but all this sstarted with my chevy 72-nova 6.0L Piece of frickin-fastness. 1320 in 11.3 and my goal now is to beat that with my eclipse (probably not going to happen) and seriously if you wanted to buy a fast car...why a vette? all they are are compensations for small cocks.....sorry

Originally posted by traes
and seriously if you wanted to buy a fast car...why a vette? all they are are compensations for small cocks.....sorry

Thats pretty sad. Its usually people who cant afford something that make comparisons like that.













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Originally posted by Gravitom
Hey Redneck, nice ride. What 1/4 miles do you run? Is your Nova street legal? I assume its stripped because of its 3000lbs weight.


actually... shes not stripped at all Just isnt a fat toad!

Street legal....hmmmm Yes! Unfortunately for the Unsuspecting Saps who want to race. Too bad for me, Im hardly out in the car because welll running a car on 91 octane with a 18 gallon tank... averaging about hmmm 8mpg or so.. It gets a tad expensive.

1/4 times... Dont know, havent been yet!
But with some educated estimates from a friend who built his own Bracket racing Dragster... and that Gtec Pro gizmo, and my friends 70 Camaro (about 300lbs heavier) running low 13s. Which i make more power more torque and im lighter.... The Nova should run.... 12's to say the least... maaaayyybbbeee touch into the 11's ... who knows! Wont till I get it to the track!

When shes finished, She'll be tested properly at the Track. You can be sure i'll post the time slips!

Originally posted by traes
okay...if you think your 91-whatever cor(ooh look at me i've got a)vette is any kind of fast.. think again. yeah i am all into imports, as i just bought an eclipse gs-t, but all this sstarted with my chevy 72-nova 6.0L Piece of frickin-fastness. 1320 in 11.3 and my goal now is to beat that with my eclipse (probably not going to happen) and seriously if you wanted to buy a fast car...why a vette? all they are are compensations for small cocks.....sorryYour obviously real mature, actually i bought a vette cause i like them, probably the same reason you bought an eclipse, so grow up a little bit. Your the kind of person that gives every other enthusiest a bad name.

YogsVR4 i seen you have a delorean, those are fun cars, my uncle has one but unfortunatly its an auto and don't have the turbos. By the way nice selection of cars, i love the 3kgt spyders, i wanted to buy one but you can't find them anywhere.