'96 windstar constantly refuses to start
Vchat20
12-16-2005, 10:29 AM
ok. heres the deal. within probably the past couple months, this stupid thing has refused to start probably a half a dozen times. but each time we would have someone jump it and within no more than a minute of having the jumper cables hooked up, it would start right up without hesitation. as well, it seemed as if the battery had plenty of juice because all the electronics in the car (even the CC blowers) would work just fine.
anyways, today its decided to be even a bigger bitch than usual. didnt want to start again. ok, had someone come and jump it again. left it hooked up for a good 5 minutes. nothing. try and crank it and all it would do is click. again, electronics were working just fine and the battery was getting a spark. just wouldnt crank over.
anyone got a close guesstimate of the problem here?
anyways, today its decided to be even a bigger bitch than usual. didnt want to start again. ok, had someone come and jump it again. left it hooked up for a good 5 minutes. nothing. try and crank it and all it would do is click. again, electronics were working just fine and the battery was getting a spark. just wouldnt crank over.
anyone got a close guesstimate of the problem here?
phil-l
12-16-2005, 11:32 AM
Let me make sure we've got the symptoms right. When the problem occurs:
- Lights and blowers in the car appear to work OK.
- Starter cannot turn engine over (no cranking). At best, it clicks.
- Jumping the car's battery (until recently) temporarily solved the problem.
Let's further refine the symptoms: When it can be jumped, does the starter sound like it's working correctly (no unusual sounds; seems to turn over a close-to-normal speed)? If so, I wouldn't immediately suspect the starter itself.
Here's how I'd proceed:
- Are the battery terminals clean and tight? Dirty terminals can cause all kinds of strange electrical problems.
- Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals (while *not* jumped). How does voltage drop when you attempt to start? This is important.
If the battery voltage stays high (near 12V) while you try to start (and get nothing but clicks), this points to a starter or battery-to-starter cable problem. If the battery voltage drops significantly (say below 10V), I'd say it's a battery problem.
Another item to consider: What is the voltage across the battery while the van is running? It should be about 14V. If it isn't, this means your battery isn't getting recharged property (alternator problem or connection problem).
- Lights and blowers in the car appear to work OK.
- Starter cannot turn engine over (no cranking). At best, it clicks.
- Jumping the car's battery (until recently) temporarily solved the problem.
Let's further refine the symptoms: When it can be jumped, does the starter sound like it's working correctly (no unusual sounds; seems to turn over a close-to-normal speed)? If so, I wouldn't immediately suspect the starter itself.
Here's how I'd proceed:
- Are the battery terminals clean and tight? Dirty terminals can cause all kinds of strange electrical problems.
- Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals (while *not* jumped). How does voltage drop when you attempt to start? This is important.
If the battery voltage stays high (near 12V) while you try to start (and get nothing but clicks), this points to a starter or battery-to-starter cable problem. If the battery voltage drops significantly (say below 10V), I'd say it's a battery problem.
Another item to consider: What is the voltage across the battery while the van is running? It should be about 14V. If it isn't, this means your battery isn't getting recharged property (alternator problem or connection problem).
Vchat20
12-16-2005, 11:44 AM
Let me make sure we've got the symptoms right. When the problem occurs:
- Lights and blowers in the car appear to work OK.
- Starter cannot turn engine over (no cranking). At best, it clicks.
- Jumping the car's battery (until recently) temporarily solved the problem.
Let's further refine the symptoms: When it can be jumped, does the starter sound like it's working correctly (no unusual sounds; seems to turn over a close-to-normal speed)? If so, I wouldn't immediately suspect the starter itself.
yes to all the above.
Here's how I'd proceed:
- Are the battery terminals clean and tight? Dirty terminals can cause all kinds of strange electrical problems.
Yes. as a matter of fact, the mechanic at where my mom works (she is a bus driver) double checked and cleaned the terminals yesterday. When trying to jump it today i even checked the the cables were on real tight.
- Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals (while *not* jumped). How does voltage drop when you attempt to start? This is important.
If the battery voltage stays high (near 12V) while you try to start (and get nothing but clicks), this points to a starter or battery-to-starter cable problem. If the battery voltage drops significantly (say below 10V), I'd say it's a battery problem.
Another item to consider: What is the voltage across the battery while the van is running? It should be about 14V. If it isn't, this means your battery isn't getting recharged property (alternator problem or connection problem).
cant check the voltage at this immediate point in time. I will see what I can do later though.
I should also make a note that the battery isnt even that old. We had it changed close to a year and a half ago right before we went on our spring break vacation (road trip from NE Ohio to Texas)
- Lights and blowers in the car appear to work OK.
- Starter cannot turn engine over (no cranking). At best, it clicks.
- Jumping the car's battery (until recently) temporarily solved the problem.
Let's further refine the symptoms: When it can be jumped, does the starter sound like it's working correctly (no unusual sounds; seems to turn over a close-to-normal speed)? If so, I wouldn't immediately suspect the starter itself.
yes to all the above.
Here's how I'd proceed:
- Are the battery terminals clean and tight? Dirty terminals can cause all kinds of strange electrical problems.
Yes. as a matter of fact, the mechanic at where my mom works (she is a bus driver) double checked and cleaned the terminals yesterday. When trying to jump it today i even checked the the cables were on real tight.
- Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals (while *not* jumped). How does voltage drop when you attempt to start? This is important.
If the battery voltage stays high (near 12V) while you try to start (and get nothing but clicks), this points to a starter or battery-to-starter cable problem. If the battery voltage drops significantly (say below 10V), I'd say it's a battery problem.
Another item to consider: What is the voltage across the battery while the van is running? It should be about 14V. If it isn't, this means your battery isn't getting recharged property (alternator problem or connection problem).
cant check the voltage at this immediate point in time. I will see what I can do later though.
I should also make a note that the battery isnt even that old. We had it changed close to a year and a half ago right before we went on our spring break vacation (road trip from NE Ohio to Texas)
phil-l
12-16-2005, 12:00 PM
Then I'll mention a related item that was causing problems for someone else on this forum: The *other* end of the battery cables.
Check where the heaviest negative battery cable attaches to the engine block; it should be clean and tight.
The heaviest positive battery cable attaches to a terminal on the starter. Again, it needs to be clean and tight.
Try to check the battery voltages: A cheap digital multimeter can be had for under $10 these days, and can help solve many problems.
Check where the heaviest negative battery cable attaches to the engine block; it should be clean and tight.
The heaviest positive battery cable attaches to a terminal on the starter. Again, it needs to be clean and tight.
Try to check the battery voltages: A cheap digital multimeter can be had for under $10 these days, and can help solve many problems.
Vchat20
12-16-2005, 02:05 PM
still havent had a chance to check the voltage yet, but heres a few more details to hopefully narrow things down.
tried to jump it again. still the same situation as before. but in the engine compartment, when trying to crank it, the clicking can be heard from somewhere under the engine towards the middle (im assuming the starter) and at points it would keep clicking over and over and get faster but it would never actually crank the engine. also, with the key in the on position but not cranking it, I could hear another clicking sound coming from somewhere under or around the battery.
I also have a feeling it may be somewhat related to the battery at this point because while the door locks will work, the sliding door lock doesnt seem to want to unlock (it moves a bit, but never moves into the unlocked position). and the power windows dont work at all either at this point. and apparently its died enough to kick the clock back to 12:00.
tried to jump it again. still the same situation as before. but in the engine compartment, when trying to crank it, the clicking can be heard from somewhere under the engine towards the middle (im assuming the starter) and at points it would keep clicking over and over and get faster but it would never actually crank the engine. also, with the key in the on position but not cranking it, I could hear another clicking sound coming from somewhere under or around the battery.
I also have a feeling it may be somewhat related to the battery at this point because while the door locks will work, the sliding door lock doesnt seem to want to unlock (it moves a bit, but never moves into the unlocked position). and the power windows dont work at all either at this point. and apparently its died enough to kick the clock back to 12:00.
phil-l
12-16-2005, 02:34 PM
The clicking noise you're hearing from the front-middle of the van, under the engine, is coming from the starter. The starter has a built-in solenoid that should engage the starter motor, which would then crank the engine. It's getting enough power to move the solenoid - which is what makes the clicking sound - but not enough to turn the starter.
The other problems you're seeing are related to low voltage.
Generally, I'd consider the symptoms you're seeing to be classic battery failure - even though the battery is fairly new. If a battery fails particularly badly, it will take so much power from the jumping vehicle that it still can't start. This is rare for an 18 month old battery, but not unheard of.
This is one situation where extra heavy-duty jumper cables can make a difference. Typical, light-duty jumper cables can give a marginal battery a boost, but it takes much heavier cables to provide the power needed if the jumping vehicle must providing *all* of the power.
The other problems you're seeing are related to low voltage.
Generally, I'd consider the symptoms you're seeing to be classic battery failure - even though the battery is fairly new. If a battery fails particularly badly, it will take so much power from the jumping vehicle that it still can't start. This is rare for an 18 month old battery, but not unheard of.
This is one situation where extra heavy-duty jumper cables can make a difference. Typical, light-duty jumper cables can give a marginal battery a boost, but it takes much heavier cables to provide the power needed if the jumping vehicle must providing *all* of the power.
wiswind
12-16-2005, 05:34 PM
Clicking near the battery..on a '96.....the CCRM (Constant Control Relay Module) is sandwiched in between the battery and the radiator. It contains the relays for the fuel pump, A/C compressor, and the radiator fans. It does NOT contain any relays relative to the cranking of the engine.
The other place there are relays near the battery...would be in the power distribution box.....a slim rectangular box that is beside the battery.....It contains relays and fuses.
Also recommend the battery voltage check. YES new batteries can go bad.
I recently bought a battery from Autozone.....It was the Duralast "Gold" which was a very powerful battery. (850 Cold Cranking Amps.....1000 Cranking Amps)...at a good price....so far...I am happy with it.
A bad battery can place a load onto the system....even while being jumped.
You DO want to verify the condition of the battery....because if it is going bad in such a way as to load things down......it could damage the alternator.
If the battery voltage is staying up reasonably....then perhaps checking the connections at the starter would be a wise choice......they are down there where they get all the salt spray......etc.
The other place there are relays near the battery...would be in the power distribution box.....a slim rectangular box that is beside the battery.....It contains relays and fuses.
Also recommend the battery voltage check. YES new batteries can go bad.
I recently bought a battery from Autozone.....It was the Duralast "Gold" which was a very powerful battery. (850 Cold Cranking Amps.....1000 Cranking Amps)...at a good price....so far...I am happy with it.
A bad battery can place a load onto the system....even while being jumped.
You DO want to verify the condition of the battery....because if it is going bad in such a way as to load things down......it could damage the alternator.
If the battery voltage is staying up reasonably....then perhaps checking the connections at the starter would be a wise choice......they are down there where they get all the salt spray......etc.
LeSabre97mint
12-16-2005, 10:11 PM
Clicking near the battery..on a '96.....the CCRM (Constant Control Relay Module) is sandwiched in between the battery and the radiator. It contains the relays for the fuel pump, A/C compressor, and the radiator fans. It does NOT contain any relays relative to the cranking of the engine.
The other place there are relays near the battery...would be in the power distribution box.....a slim rectangular box that is beside the battery.....It contains relays and fuses.
Also recommend the battery voltage check. YES new batteries can go bad.
I recently bought a battery from Autozone.....It was the Duralast "Gold" which was a very powerful battery. (850 Cold Cranking Amps.....1000 Cranking Amps)...at a good price....so far...I am happy with it.
A bad battery can place a load onto the system....even while being jumped.
You DO want to verify the condition of the battery....because if it is going bad in such a way as to load things down......it could damage the alternator.
If the battery voltage is staying up reasonably....then perhaps checking the connections at the starter would be a wise choice......they are down there where they get all the salt spray......etc.
To add to WisWind's post. Have your battery LOAD tested. It may test 12 - 13.4 with no load but test bad with a load test.
Regards
Dan
The other place there are relays near the battery...would be in the power distribution box.....a slim rectangular box that is beside the battery.....It contains relays and fuses.
Also recommend the battery voltage check. YES new batteries can go bad.
I recently bought a battery from Autozone.....It was the Duralast "Gold" which was a very powerful battery. (850 Cold Cranking Amps.....1000 Cranking Amps)...at a good price....so far...I am happy with it.
A bad battery can place a load onto the system....even while being jumped.
You DO want to verify the condition of the battery....because if it is going bad in such a way as to load things down......it could damage the alternator.
If the battery voltage is staying up reasonably....then perhaps checking the connections at the starter would be a wise choice......they are down there where they get all the salt spray......etc.
To add to WisWind's post. Have your battery LOAD tested. It may test 12 - 13.4 with no load but test bad with a load test.
Regards
Dan
DRW1000
12-16-2005, 11:39 PM
I was wondering if when the battery is boosted do you connect the boosting battery's negative cable to the engine block or to the negative terminal?
The reason I ask is that as was suggested earlier that the block end of the negative battery cable may not be making good connection and if you boost it the way mentioned above this potential problem would be bypassed.
The reason I ask is that as was suggested earlier that the block end of the negative battery cable may not be making good connection and if you boost it the way mentioned above this potential problem would be bypassed.
Vchat20
12-17-2005, 05:46 AM
nah. both sides were connected directly to the negative battery terminal.
anyways, hopefully we can make some headway today. im going to be borrowing a multimeter from our neighbor and see what voltages im getting off the battery. ill also check the various connections. if worst comes to worst we will probably take it to autozone or some place and have the battery tested.
anyways, hopefully we can make some headway today. im going to be borrowing a multimeter from our neighbor and see what voltages im getting off the battery. ill also check the various connections. if worst comes to worst we will probably take it to autozone or some place and have the battery tested.
ruggratt
12-17-2005, 08:10 AM
nah. both sides were connected directly to the negative battery terminal.
anyways, hopefully we can make some headway today. im going to be borrowing a multimeter from our neighbor and see what voltages im getting off the battery. ill also check the various connections. if worst comes to worst we will probably take it to autozone or some place and have the battery tested.
Do you have access to another battery, maybe you own a second vehicle, or a friend or neighbor can lend you theirs? Just swap a different battery in to see if it starts fine then. If so you know your battery is bad. Then you could also try your battery in a different vehicle too.
If your van doesn't start even with a different battery then I would think you have either a bad cable/connection or bad starter.
anyways, hopefully we can make some headway today. im going to be borrowing a multimeter from our neighbor and see what voltages im getting off the battery. ill also check the various connections. if worst comes to worst we will probably take it to autozone or some place and have the battery tested.
Do you have access to another battery, maybe you own a second vehicle, or a friend or neighbor can lend you theirs? Just swap a different battery in to see if it starts fine then. If so you know your battery is bad. Then you could also try your battery in a different vehicle too.
If your van doesn't start even with a different battery then I would think you have either a bad cable/connection or bad starter.
Vchat20
12-17-2005, 01:12 PM
lets just say that we are basically going to have to replace all the main battery leads now.
my uncle, the self proclaimed mechanic in the family, took the battery out and took it to the local autozone. they said it was fine and also put it on a charger for about half an hour. come back and put it back in the car and while he is trying to put the negative lead back on, the body negative (the short tiny wire) came lose and pulled out altogether. took the battery pole clamp apart and reseated the wires in it as well as "de-corroded" them (took a bowl full of coca-cola and let the bits sit in it for a few minutes to get all the crud off). put the leads back on the battery and the car fires right up.
also, the other clicking noise from near the battery we narrowed down to being the fuel pump relay because it would only start when the key was turned to the on position and would only be clicking for a short period then stop. but the starter would continue to click after that so it wasnt that there was no juice to stop the relay clicking.
my uncle, the self proclaimed mechanic in the family, took the battery out and took it to the local autozone. they said it was fine and also put it on a charger for about half an hour. come back and put it back in the car and while he is trying to put the negative lead back on, the body negative (the short tiny wire) came lose and pulled out altogether. took the battery pole clamp apart and reseated the wires in it as well as "de-corroded" them (took a bowl full of coca-cola and let the bits sit in it for a few minutes to get all the crud off). put the leads back on the battery and the car fires right up.
also, the other clicking noise from near the battery we narrowed down to being the fuel pump relay because it would only start when the key was turned to the on position and would only be clicking for a short period then stop. but the starter would continue to click after that so it wasnt that there was no juice to stop the relay clicking.
Vchat20
12-19-2005, 07:35 PM
ok...so what is the avergae price for these cables? I keep getting conflicting sources. one of which is estimating over $100. As well, where would be a good place to get these cables from in your opinion?
Automotive Network, Inc., Copyright ©2025