Windstar shudders @ 1500rpm
scottjc
11-24-2005, 10:17 PM
I have a 99 windstar that shudders at 1500rpm. I've pulled the vaccuum off the EGR valve and the shuddering seemed to stop. I need help. I also pulled the codes off and came up with p1157 and p1408. I'm at a loss.
cedarspeedshop
11-27-2005, 05:31 PM
Need more info. Does it shudder from 1500 on or just 1500 to 1800 or so. Does it do it in park or neatural? Does it do it in all gears? Do you drive with the egr vavle off?
wiswind
11-27-2005, 07:27 PM
Did you read the codes BEFORE you removed the EGR hose? Removing the EGR hose will likely cause a code for insufficient EGR flow.....which is what you have caused by removing the hose. So it would not be a "true" problem...as you will fix it when you re-connect the hose. (P0401 would be the code that I would expect.....but the 2nd code you list is a "maybe").
P1157 is "lack of downstream H02S 22 switch bank #2 lean"
P1408 "EGR gas flow is out of self test range"
Double check the wiring for the oxygen sensor that is downstream from each catalytic converter.
Bank #1 is the bank with cylinder #1...which on the windstar, is the rear bank.
H02S 11 is bank 1 upstream
H02S 12 is bank 1 downstream
H02S 21 is Bank 2 upstream
H02S 22 is Bank 2 downstream
You are getting this indication from the sensor that is after the catalytic converter that is connected to the FRONT bank of cylinders. Look to see if any part of the wires going to this sensor are melted, frayed, etc.
The sensors switch between lean and rich.
Your failure code indicates that it is not switching....and is staying in the "lean" state. There is another code (P1158) for when this same sensor is not switching...and is stuck "rich".
Wiring is the first thing I would check....and connections. It plugs in near the sensor.
I did have the other downstream sensor on my '96 that was mounted into the converter it's self....break out of the converter when I went to remove it.....the whole mounting ring. So if you have any sensor mounted into the body of a converter, be very careful. If both rear ones are mounted into the pipe (not the converter), I would try switching the down stream sensors with each other....and see if the problem moves. That is after giving the wiring a good looking over.
The downstream sensors should not cause a shudder......unless one of your converters are clogged. The downstream sensors ONLY monitor the catalytic converters to make sure that they are working. The computer uses the upstream sensors to make engine adjustments.
P1157 is "lack of downstream H02S 22 switch bank #2 lean"
P1408 "EGR gas flow is out of self test range"
Double check the wiring for the oxygen sensor that is downstream from each catalytic converter.
Bank #1 is the bank with cylinder #1...which on the windstar, is the rear bank.
H02S 11 is bank 1 upstream
H02S 12 is bank 1 downstream
H02S 21 is Bank 2 upstream
H02S 22 is Bank 2 downstream
You are getting this indication from the sensor that is after the catalytic converter that is connected to the FRONT bank of cylinders. Look to see if any part of the wires going to this sensor are melted, frayed, etc.
The sensors switch between lean and rich.
Your failure code indicates that it is not switching....and is staying in the "lean" state. There is another code (P1158) for when this same sensor is not switching...and is stuck "rich".
Wiring is the first thing I would check....and connections. It plugs in near the sensor.
I did have the other downstream sensor on my '96 that was mounted into the converter it's self....break out of the converter when I went to remove it.....the whole mounting ring. So if you have any sensor mounted into the body of a converter, be very careful. If both rear ones are mounted into the pipe (not the converter), I would try switching the down stream sensors with each other....and see if the problem moves. That is after giving the wiring a good looking over.
The downstream sensors should not cause a shudder......unless one of your converters are clogged. The downstream sensors ONLY monitor the catalytic converters to make sure that they are working. The computer uses the upstream sensors to make engine adjustments.
scottjc
12-04-2005, 08:24 PM
Need more info. Does it shudder from 1500 on or just 1500 to 1800 or so. Does it do it in park or neatural? Does it do it in all gears? Do you drive with the egr vavle off?
It shudders only at 15 to 1800. more so in park, but it will do it in all gears. the egr valve is plugged in. The van drives great other that the shuddering.
It shudders only at 15 to 1800. more so in park, but it will do it in all gears. the egr valve is plugged in. The van drives great other that the shuddering.
scottjc
12-04-2005, 08:26 PM
Did you read the codes BEFORE you removed the EGR hose? Removing the EGR hose will likely cause a code for insufficient EGR flow.....which is what you have caused by removing the hose. So it would not be a "true" problem...as you will fix it when you re-connect the hose. (P0401 would be the code that I would expect.....but the 2nd code you list is a "maybe").
P1157 is "lack of downstream H02S 22 switch bank #2 lean"
P1408 "EGR gas flow is out of self test range"
Double check the wiring for the oxygen sensor that is downstream from each catalytic converter.
Bank #1 is the bank with cylinder #1...which on the windstar, is the rear bank.
H02S 11 is bank 1 upstream
H02S 12 is bank 1 downstream
H02S 21 is Bank 2 upstream
H02S 22 is Bank 2 downstream
You are getting this indication from the sensor that is after the catalytic converter that is connected to the FRONT bank of cylinders. Look to see if any part of the wires going to this sensor are melted, frayed, etc.
The sensors switch between lean and rich.
Your failure code indicates that it is not switching....and is staying in the "lean" state. There is another code (P1158) for when this same sensor is not switching...and is stuck "rich".
Wiring is the first thing I would check....and connections. It plugs in near the sensor.
I did have the other downstream sensor on my '96 that was mounted into the converter it's self....break out of the converter when I went to remove it.....the whole mounting ring. So if you have any sensor mounted into the body of a converter, be very careful. If both rear ones are mounted into the pipe (not the converter), I would try switching the down stream sensors with each other....and see if the problem moves. That is after giving the wiring a good looking over.
The downstream sensors should not cause a shudder......unless one of your converters are clogged. The downstream sensors ONLY monitor the catalytic converters to make sure that they are working. The computer uses the upstream sensors to make engine adjustments.The codes were read before they were pulled.
P1157 is "lack of downstream H02S 22 switch bank #2 lean"
P1408 "EGR gas flow is out of self test range"
Double check the wiring for the oxygen sensor that is downstream from each catalytic converter.
Bank #1 is the bank with cylinder #1...which on the windstar, is the rear bank.
H02S 11 is bank 1 upstream
H02S 12 is bank 1 downstream
H02S 21 is Bank 2 upstream
H02S 22 is Bank 2 downstream
You are getting this indication from the sensor that is after the catalytic converter that is connected to the FRONT bank of cylinders. Look to see if any part of the wires going to this sensor are melted, frayed, etc.
The sensors switch between lean and rich.
Your failure code indicates that it is not switching....and is staying in the "lean" state. There is another code (P1158) for when this same sensor is not switching...and is stuck "rich".
Wiring is the first thing I would check....and connections. It plugs in near the sensor.
I did have the other downstream sensor on my '96 that was mounted into the converter it's self....break out of the converter when I went to remove it.....the whole mounting ring. So if you have any sensor mounted into the body of a converter, be very careful. If both rear ones are mounted into the pipe (not the converter), I would try switching the down stream sensors with each other....and see if the problem moves. That is after giving the wiring a good looking over.
The downstream sensors should not cause a shudder......unless one of your converters are clogged. The downstream sensors ONLY monitor the catalytic converters to make sure that they are working. The computer uses the upstream sensors to make engine adjustments.The codes were read before they were pulled.
cedarspeedshop
12-04-2005, 10:33 PM
My 2000 is doing the same thing, thats why I was looking for more info. Mine doesn't do it in park, but under load I get a sight vibration from 15-to 18 hundred rpm. In park with my head under the hood I do hear some rhymitic engine noise that increases with rpm. Throgh every gear. It is not nock, and I don't think it is the tranny. I have not lifted the codes yet, but I will eventually.
We bought the van a few weeks ago so I do not know what normal for it is. If I find out more I will let you know. I believe it is valve train related. I need to get the steth-o-scope and my timing light to narrow down what cylinder /valves it could be.
We bought the van a few weeks ago so I do not know what normal for it is. If I find out more I will let you know. I believe it is valve train related. I need to get the steth-o-scope and my timing light to narrow down what cylinder /valves it could be.
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