Car For Son! Help Please!

Hi,

My son just turned recieved his license and I'm going to be purchasing him a car soon as I think he really deserves it. Anyways, I know that he wants a fast car but I just don't think he's ready for it. I talked with him and I decided that I would help him pick a car.

The car needs to be good on insurance, decent on gas, and have potential to be fast (Promised I would help him make it faster in a year or two.). I know that he likes wagons and hatches but he doesn't really matter what style it is.

Anyone have any recommendations?

Thank you!

Honda

Vw Gti

Thanks guys. Any specific Honda's CassiesMan? Thank you for the replies, I really appreciate the help.

The car needs to be good on insurance, decent on gas, and have potential to be fast

Yes, most Honda's are good on insurance (damn my Prelude), and are very decent on gas, and have potential to be..uh...well two out of three ain't bad.

Unless it's already equipped with a DOHC/VTEC it takes a lot of money/work/love to make a Honda fast.

GTI's are quick but I think the turbo or VR6 might make insurance a bit high.

honda civic/accord

Maybe a used 240sx. They have decent reliability and come w/ rear-wheel drive. They can be made to go fast and the insurance isn't to bad. They might not be the most practical car for your son though, only two doors. How much are you willing to spend on his car? If you want to spend enough money you might want to look into the new Civic Si from Honda. 215 (honda's claim, probably lower w/ Honda's history :headshake) isn't to bad :naughty:.

Driftkid - Civic was one of the cars on our list but what about the Accord? I thought that they couldn't be made that fast, or that it would take more work than some of the other cars? I'm not trying to question you, I just want to get set straight because we both really like the Accords.

Shnailpower - I don't think that the 240SX would be good because the gas mileage for city driving is...less that I had hoped for.

Thanks for all the replies!

Driftkid - Civic was one of the cars on our list but what about the Accord? I thought that they couldn't be made that fast, or that it would take more work than some of the other cars? I'm not trying to question you, I just want to get set straight because we both really like the Accords.

Shnailpower - I don't think that the 240SX would be good because the gas mileage for city driving is...less that I had hoped for.

Thanks for all the replies!
Accords can fit the prelude motor in them for 190-220 HP

makes a nice sporty sedan or coupe if you could find a v6 thats also just a nice car as is.

Civics can be fast just need money in them I've done a few mods to mine it goes well and still high 20s low 30s milage.

How much money are we talking about here?

Get him a 2006 Civic Si. You just can't go wrong with that. They're going to be exteremely popular, and I'm sure you'll be able to pick up a nice turbo kit for it in a year.

What about a 2.5RS impreza? AWD Their kind of fast stock but not too fast.

Some other ones

late 80s early 90s FC RX7
Fox body mustang cheap a little on the fast side
88-91 325i BMW (thats what I have 17) RWD inline6 not too fast

What about a 2.5RS impreza? AWD Their kind of fast stock but not too fast.

Some other ones

late 80s early 90s FC RX7
Fox body mustang cheap a little on the fast side
88-91 325i BMW (thats what I have 17) RWD inline6 not too fast

Well, I know that he would love to get an RX-7 (And I would too!) but just a few problems, rotary, not really what I would want to get him for his first car, and secondly, gas mileage. Another reason why I couldn't get the Mustang and BMW.

Anyways, we would like to avoid an engine swap because we have never done one before. Definately looking at the Civics.

Here are some cars that were looking at:

- Suzuki Aerio SX
- Suzuki Reno
- Honda Civic Si Hatchback
- Mazda Protege/Protege 5
- Toyota Matrix xR
- Toyota Celica GT
- Hyundai Tiburon

It's a very big list and this isn't even including all of them as we are still looking. Just thought I'd throw it in to give you guys an idea of what we are currently looking at.

Thanks again for all of the help and the support!

I see you've got the Protege on that list. Have you checked out the Mazda3??? I think the Mazda3 replaced the Protege. My friend has a Mazda3 Wagon and he really likes it and so do I.

Accords can fit the prelude motor in them for 190-220 HP

makes a nice sporty sedan or coupe if you could find a v6 thats also just a nice car as is.

Civics can be fast just need money in them I've done a few mods to mine it goes well and still high 20s low 30s milage.

Accords are very nice, I myself drive one. Comfortable, great gas mileage, ride, and from what my parents have told me, easy on insurance.

The v6 models can be picked up at a reasonable price. The 6th gen, 98-02, can run you about 14k for a top of the line V6 ex with leather. The latter half of the gen is sedans only, the 98 and 99 came with a coupe version. I might be wrong on that, but I believe it's right. The major problem with them though is the transmission, it has a tendency to wear out early, but the range it does is above 70k usually, and it doesn't happen to all models.

The J30A1 can be modified but it's going to end up being the fast car he wants. Even with supercharging, you're only looking at high 13s/low 14s. Isn't too terribly fast, but for a sedan that heavy, it ain't that bad either. Just remember, it isn't cheap to mod an Accord.

Whatever you get him, let us know.

If you want to save on insurance, you should probably steer away from a brand new car for a brand new driver. Just my .02.

The Mazda Protoge5 is nice looking but isn't terribly fast... compare to new Kia Spectra5... same thing.

I keep hearing things about the Suzuki Aerio but I assume that they're not very fast either nor is there any after market support.

You may want to avoid turbo for insurance savings but a Subaru WRX wagon is a really nice car in stock form.

Honda Accord Wagons are nice but are more of a family car. Some people swap in H22 prelude vtec engines in them which is a good amount of work; and if you don't really know much about them and something goes wrong it could be bad.

The 2002-2004 honda Civic Si hatchback looks nice and is starting to gain after market support for it's K20 engine and it has decent gas mileage. I think the shifter set up is a bit weird for a newbie though.

Get him something that he'll be proud of. That's all i ask, even if it isn't the greatest car in the world. My dad got me a 1989 LeSabre T-Type, and to this day i still say it's one of the best cars anyone can own, they got pep, they look sharp, and they're rare, i'll own another someday. Point being it doesn't have to be the greatest thing in the world just something your son would love to own.

A good car on your list was the Toyota Matrix, the engine in the R was used in the Lotus Elise, a nice high revving engine. The Toyota already has the reliability and the gas mileage is nice, w/ it being a compact hatch. I don't know much about the toyota's aftermarket though it looks like it already has a good starting block for tuning.

By the way, why was this posted in the racing forum? If you are looking for a faster car than those already mentioned you might want to look into the SRT-4 (neon) a reliable package w/ decent mileage. (25-28 mpg). Plus that turbocharger, :iceslolan

What about a Mazda Miata? I almost bought one a while back. Their cheap to buy and on parts. Their RWD (which is much better performance wise) great on gas mileage and I don’t think insurance is that bad on them. And they have plenty of potential with the stock block. Plus I think the best thing about them is stock they aren’t that fast but they feel fast.

Do like I wish my father would have done and just buy the little sucker an Fbody!!!!!! :iceslolan Screw mpg and insurance costs.....he will love you forever!

You could also fool him and get him a truck. He'll think you ended his racing dreams.....until the mods start to come. Then he'll be taking people's money and he can even do some hauling of various things in the bed for you(see everyone wins) :lol: My insurance is super cheap, but of course they have no idea what the truck has become. :naughty:

How about an SVT Focus? Though I agree with Slowprocess, trucks=:ylsuper:

80's model 300zx turbo (although I'm a little biased)...

Get's decent mileage (if he knows how to drive it right), it's not too fast, but it's still got plenty of kick, and insurance isn't that bad... you can pick one up for cheap... ohh and you can mod the hell outa it for cheap too

I still say that if you're willing to spend the money though, a honda might be the way to go... I liked the 240sx idea, and you can most likely get more than 22 MPG city in it if you drive it right... *TatII where are you!!!???*

Get him a Vette.

like an '88 C4 Corvette... can pick em up for less than $10,000 easy. He'll get so much poon that there's no chance he'll go gay... if that's your fear...

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll definately check out the V6 Accords again, I was talking about the 4 Cylinder Accords earlier because of gas mileage.

I would love to get a Miata but insurance is probably going to hurt with a convertible. Plus, I don't think he likes the Miata, he says its a girls car. I think anyone that judges someone's sexuality by what car they drive deserves to get blown a new asshole...just my opinion. :)

I would also like the car to not be really older than 5 or so years old.

2nd gen rx7...

my first car. insurance is for sure higher on it (vs a 240sx, my current car). i saved $60 monthly when i switched from the rx7 to the 240sx. and the rx7 was a non turbo
mileage isnt very good on it but you can save a little if you get a safc (since the stock ecu has as much processing power as a game boy) and you can tune it and raise mpg. I love the car, its fun as hell to drive, im getting another one

What kind of gas mileage would you get for city driving? Also, how reliable was it? I've heard that people get the impression that they are unreliable, when they are in fact reliable, they just have some problems with over heating or something...

Edit: Also, what trucks do you have in mind? My wife isn't a huge fan of trucks because of their safety but I'm fine with it. Only reason I don't see getting one is because of gas mileage. Anyways, I know that trucks can be fast, friend has a Ford SVT Lightning running sub-14's, damn fast truck. Also gets like 15 MPG. :)

Fast and good on gas seem contradicting. It's the horsepower to weight ratio. Your son initially indicated he wanted a wagon or a hatchback meaning he is somewhat on the domesticated side (you're lucky). Then there's the money factor as someone asked how much are you willing to dish out. Fast cars are known to cost more on insurance. Honda has good small sporty looking hatchbacks and so are VW and Toyota. Paramount is reliability. My four kids had the following cars. New Beemer 318, Used Chevrolet Nova, Used Camaro and Used Sunbird. Fairly good starting choices. Now grown ups , their choice of cars were not as good.

You still haven't answered the question on the budget. Are we talking $5000, $10000 or $25000?

Oh sorry, thought I touched on that, I can spend around $10,000 - $15,000.

the Rx-7 is not a good starters car. The engine is dificult to maintenance because not many mechanics have been educated on the rotary so its hard to find someone to repair the car. I personally love the mazda but they aren't easy to find. So 10,000 - 15,000? you could look into an older acura rsx, super high revving engine w/ a nice tranny. The interior is also acura-grade. Reliabilty is near perfect (it's a honda, duh...). If you want something faster go for a used srt-4, cheap interior and not so relaible but that thang moves. (turbocharger, :iceslolan <---- I love that word.

Yeah, don't think I want an RX-7 because of the gas mileage as well, just not as good as I was hoping.

Just so you know...

LS1 F-Body's with the 6-speed can get over 30MPG on the highway and 23-24 around town.

Not that it matters much. Opinions are all anyone can give you here.
I had to pay for my first car. Nothing expensive....but looking back at it, I am glad it wasn't given to me. I would recommend having him pay for parts of it. Could be anything...maintenance and insurance might be a good idea.
Anyways...
Not sure why you want to get him something faster for a first car. Dangerous if you ask me.
Good luck on your search!

I don't want to get him something fast for his first car, I want to get him something that can be made fast. Anyways, I paid for my first car too and I definately think it's a good idea because then they don't feel like they can just go trash it, they actually care about it and know that it's a privelege. He is in fact paying for part of it.

Cool.

What do you consider fast?

I think he would be quite happy with low 14's.

And I would say that is too fast for a rookie driver. :lol:

My younger brother thought my '01 Grand Am GT was the shit when he was 17-18 years old. And that is a mid-upper 15 second car.

Low 14s + new driver = SPLAT

To bad I ain't gonna follow that formula when I get my first car. Just you guys wait, 3 more years and my $1000 civic shitwagon (with fartcannon, :naughty: ) will be runnin' low 11s.

the Rx-7 is not a good starters car. The engine is dificult to maintenance because not many mechanics have been educated on the rotary so its hard to find someone to repair the car..

The 13B is a perfectly good motor. The only problem was the uber restrictive exhaust/down pipe combo from the factory. It cuased the heat to build up in the motor, killing it around 80-95k miles. Most used RX-7s have new, low milage motors in them, meaning you have plenty of time to save it. All it takes is to widen out the down pipe/exhaust, and a possible cat delete. And I know plenty of mechanics that can work with rotarys just fine...of course, I also live like, ten minutes from Steve Kahns shop, so there is like 30 RX-7 mechanics right down the road from me, lol. I know I would love to have an FD. Yeah, the gas miliage sucks, but c'mon, its an FD....

Also...low 14s for a starter car? Wanna adopt a new son? My dad thinks my 15 second BMW is too fast. Of course, Im paying for like, 95% of it, so its my choice. God I cant wait till I get the title for this thing and sell it for a fast car. Oh, and my 325i gets between 35-40, sometimes up near 50mpg on the highway...

I think a Honda would be a great choice. Why?

1)Easy on insurance
2)They are cheap
3)Its gonna be a fun mod and bonding expirence for you and your son. Think about it. You get him started off on a 16 second car, maybe high 15s. Get a two door or the hatch, a nice little "sporty" (notice the quotes) moddel. He'll learn how to drive safely, how to survive on the road, etc. Then, you can start slow with bolt ons. Sure, your not gonna have a low 14 car out of the box, but it will help your son learn the general inner workings of a car, and how to build it up. When you out grow that, you can start looking into motor swaps, FI, the like. And the thing is, if both you and your son get involved, it'll help you bond the entire time as your building it up. It'll help teach patience, fiscal responsibility, etc., while slowly, but surely, ending up with a fairly fast car. And it doesnt have to be a Civic, you could go with a Teg, or Prelude.

Well if you got 10-15k I like the used WRX wagon idea. You can pick up a good 00-03 one for that price. Anyways I think we pretty much threw out every newer car in that price range already. And I would say stay away from the hondas if your not ready to do a lot of work to make it fast.

Oh crap. I meant low 14's eventually. I would never trust a new driver with a 14 second car, low or high, period. Sorry for the confusion, we would like to EVENTUALLY make it a low 14 second car. Sorry about that.

I think I may just go with the Honda as I do like the idea that it's reliable, good on insurance, potential, and good gas mileage. Anyways, besides Civics, Tegs, and Preludes, any other specific recommendations for models and what years? Thinking about maybe getting an older Civic, like 92-00. I've never done an engine swap before and I hear there pretty difficult so I was hoping we wouldn't have to do that.

Thanks again for all the replies!

I think a car just about anywhere in the 14s is way too fast for an inexperienced driver... just get him a low 15 second car and tell him it's a 14 second car... chances are he won't be able to tell the difference unless he actually tests it out (or does his research I gues)

I've never done an engine swap before and I hear there pretty difficult so I was hoping we wouldn't have to do that.

My buddy did a swap into his pickup, dropped in a crate 350 just him and his dad...if you have the tools, and do the whole, whats it called...oh yeah...FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIONS, lol, it shouldnt be that hard. If your son wants something like a wagon or a hatch, go with a mid ninties Civic hatch. If he wants a margianlly sportier car, I'd say Prelude or Integra. Im not to sure about the Accord aftermarket, but a mid/late 90s 2 door V6 Accord should be fine on insurance, and I think they have decnt potential.

Sorry, that's just what I heard. Besides, we don't really have the tools to do a swap.

78-83 Chevy Malibu

Stock they came with at most I think a weak 200hp 350. Usually they had a V6 or 305 in it though.

Start out being fairly less than desirable...
http://maliburacing.com/visitor_rides/bigimages/Todd%20Ryden.jpg

But build up a 355/383/434ci smallblock and:
http://maliburacing.com/visitor_rides/bigimages/prochargerdm3.jpg

:eek:

My suggestion:
-Get him a geo metro or something that is ONLY meant for good gas mileage
-Get something else to make a father/son project car to make fast as hell

My first car was a 94 Z28(275hp, 17-18mpg city, 22-23mpg hwy, and way cooler than a honda :sunglasse) but I was tempted to break the law and got a reckless driving ticket for 27mph over the limit. I'm glad he didn't catch me about 2 minutes before when I was about 85mph over(in a 55 zone).

Because of this, I learned from it and provided I don't lose my license completely(I find out the 21st), I am very seriously considering selling the Z28 and getting a geo metro from a friend for free and buying some kind of older car to make a hot rod with my dad because I'll be out of the house in a couple years and may as well have some good memories with him. But I plan on getting a coupe, not a wagon :iceslolan
http://maliburacing.com/visitor_rides/bigimages/tom_olsen_large.jpg
I know it's not exactly what you planned, but just throwing that idea out there.

Hmm, i'd say get him an Acura Integra GS-R. Stock they run like a mid 15 sec. 1/4 mile. They can be made to run mid to low 14's rather easily (Help him install a Jackson Racing Supercharger). I'd recommend against an LS1 powered car, as the power would most likely lead to an accident.

Okay, now I'm considering doing a swap since you guys convinced me. Anyways, if I do do a swap what car would you guys recommend? Still go with a Civic Hatch? I heard some Celica's with a 3SGTE swap can be awesome.

Thanks.

4cyl Accords seem pretty ideal for the situation. When you guys are ready to make it a little quicker, you can swap in an h22 from a prelude, which will make it good for high 14's. And when its ready for yet another upgrade, basic bolt ons will make it good for mid-14's. And when you're ready to push it even further; cams, an intake manifold, and a good tune will make it solid for high 13's.

If your still thinking honda then go for a RSX. Looks good not too fast but shouldnt be that hard to get it to run 14s.

After reading some more, I'm going to say the RSX-S as well. It's a high 14 low 15 second car stock, very comfortable, nice interior, and a very nice engine that doesn't need to be swapped out.

The engine has i-VTEC, which basically means that it's extremely tunable, even though it's naturally aspirated. First you should probably do intake, exhaust, and then a header with a test pipe (if emissions are not an issue, otherwise high-flow cat). Then do the ECU reflash from Hondata, then cams and a few minor things, and it should be putting down 230 fwhp.

You need to start him out with a RWD car, so that he learns its nuances. This is my opinion.

I've been thinking about this, since I have a 13-yr-old who'll be driving in a mere 3 years or so.

It has be able to handle and especially brake, fairly well, small enough for it to be "tossable" in case of emergency maneuvers, be fairly reliable, cheaply repairable, and it has to be a two-seater, so it doesn't become a taxi for his friends, for gas-mileage, and potential "rowdy outing" purposes.

The perfect car for this in my opinion is a 93+ NA MR2. Not too fast, and earlier ('90 to '92) oversteer issues have been resolved. Has an airbag, and he won't have to hide when seen in it.

It also has the potential to become much faster in the future, has Toyota reliability, and is quite accepted in many SCCA tracks, if my son decides to "further" the driving fun.

Not to mention Daddy can have some fun in it too. :icon16:

If you're serious about Honda. Come on over to the Honda/Acura section of AF. But I'll add this...
An RSX-S is a good choice. The K20 in it is much better tuned from the factory then the K20 in the 2002-2004 Civic Si. And like Clawhammer said takes very well to mods and it has i-vtec which means saving gas. I don't think a RWD car would be the safest choice for a first time driver only because he could get into a drift situation rather easily. I wrecked a POS chevette from sliding. People buy 240sx cuz they drift easy stock. Is that something your son actually wants to do? And if a 2 seater is what your son wants (doesn't sound like it), then I'd recommend a CRX. In stock form, they are slow but making them fast is relatively easy if done properly. Also, I wouldn't take advice from anybody who is about to lose their license for reckless driving in a Z-28. Even though Z-28s and other LS1 or 350 powered cars are nice, as a first car, it's probably not the best choice.

I don't think a RWD car would be the safest choice for a first time driver only because he could get into a drift situation rather easily.
I disagree. A RWD car will force you to learn proper driving mechanics early on, which translates much better into FWD driving, than the other way around. This is why I recommend a '93+ MR, as it has solved the oversteer issues of the earlier models, which will help a young driver from spinning the car out.

This is also why you get a relatively weak RWD car, and not a powerful one that will overpower the rear tires.

I learned from and honed my driving on a RWD platform, and I've handled all my FWD cars no problem.

we 13 year olds won't need braking when we can drive... As for the engine swap, howz about a third-gen rx-7 w/ an LS1 thrown in. Massive burnout fun!

we 13 year olds won't need braking when we can drive... As for the engine swap, howz about a third-gen rx-7 w/ an LS1 thrown in. Massive burnout fun!

massive death, you mean?

This is also why you get a relatively weak RWD car, and not a powerful one that will overpower the rear tires.

I learned from and honed my driving on a RWD platform, and I've handled all my FWD cars no problem.

I agree. But things can happen. My Chevette hardly had any power at all. I just spun out from an oil spot on wet pavement and spun and hit a curb. So what? POS right? Well, if my Dad bought me something else (this was well before 93...haha), I would've been shit out of luck. I'm just saying that if the kid desires that kind of car then sure why not, start with maybe a 240sx or mr2 import or maybe even a mustang. It really depends on what he wants.

I've driven weak and strong fwd and rwd...

I agree. But things can happen. My Chevette hardly had any power at all. I just spun out from an oil spot on wet pavement and spun and hit a curb. So what? POS right? Well, if my Dad bought me something else (this was well before 93...haha), I would've been shit out of luck. I'm just saying that if the kid desires that kind of car then sure why not, start with maybe a 240sx or mr2 import or maybe even a mustang. It really depends on what he wants.

I've driven weak and strong fwd and rwd...


Yea but wouldnt it have been worse if you were in a FWD car? I mean not only would you have lost driving force you would have lost steering. I just dont understand why people think FWD is safer?

What kind of gas mileage would you get for city driving? Also, how reliable was it? I've heard that people get the impression that they are unreliable, when they are in fact reliable, they just have some problems with over heating or something...

Edit: Also, what trucks do you have in mind? My wife isn't a huge fan of trucks because of their safety but I'm fine with it. Only reason I don't see getting one is because of gas mileage. Anyways, I know that trucks can be fast, friend has a Ford SVT Lightning running sub-14's, damn fast truck. Also gets like 15 MPG. :)

The truck you see in my sig with a stock 5.3L motor can go mid-14s with basic boltons and a good tune and easily get 17-18mpg. Mine has gone a best of 12.40 on motor alone and 11.7 with a little shot of gas and a terrible 60ft time.
Stock, no mods will run in the upper 15s, so it wouldn't be terribly slow from the start. Add a mod here and there and mid/low 14s will be no problem at all. My buddy bought an extended cab 04 silverado, we installed the K&N intake, superchips programmer, Pacesetter Long tubes, and a cutout. He went 14.8. Then I took off my nitrous kit, put it on his truck, then had him spraying out of second gear and he went 14.2. He wouldn't let me drive it, but I know I could have gotten a high 13 out of it spraying out of the hole and through the gears.

Lightnings are fast trucks, but if you want to make it a progressive thing(as well as a cheaper alternative), I would go with a GM. The LS-motor has given us new model GM guys a huge window of opportunity for upgrading.

what about a sentra Se-r?

Also, I wouldn't take advice from anybody who is about to lose their license for reckless driving in a Z-28.

That's a personal matter, I learned my lesson. No matter what you get your son, if he wants it to go fast, he will undoubtedly get a ticket unless there is a track nearby. Hell, if I went with a 300ZX I imagine it would be similar.

There are idiot kids out there racing their hONduHs with a fart trumpet exhaust and getting reckless driving tickets too. It's not the car, it's the driver.

And to consider my information moot, I would like to know what makes you such a great driver? I'm sure you have gotten a ticket at one time in your life. It just so happens that I got one a couple weeks ago. If not, then congratulations. I know that there probably isn't more than a few people on this forum who have never done anything illegal in their car yet, and you are likely not one of them.