Car For Son! Help Please!

Lightnings are fast trucks, but if you want to make it a progressive thing(as well as a cheaper alternative), I would go with a GM. The LS-motor has given us new model GM guys a huge window of opportunity for upgrading.

Well he could pick up a gen1 lightning for $6000-$7000 low 15s, and full boltons=low 14s,and head/cam+boltons=low 13s. But I wouldn't go for it if you need good gas mileage, I got a wonderful 14 highway down from LightningFest.

Well he could pick up a gen1 lightning for $6000-$7000 low 15s, and full boltons=low 14s,and cam+boltons=low 13s. But I wouldn't go for it if you need good gas mileage, I got a wonderful 14 highway down from LightningFest.

Very true. Both trucks extremely affordable and easily modified. Hey, man, I need to post up a pic for you of my buddies past two gen1 Lightnings. He had a black one and a red one. Both nice 14 second trucks. I'll pm some pics to you some time.

Okay, thanks guy. Yeah, I don't think that were going to get a truck because we would still like the gas mileage if possible.

Anyways, I love the MR2 but I've heard that they have a lot of problems with spin-outs. Check out mr2oc.com and find the thread titled "MR2 As A First Car?" or something along those lines.

I'll see if he likes the RSX-S as it does seem like it would be a perfect car. I also like the idea of getting a 4 Cylinder Accord and then eventually dropping a H22 into it. I'm currently looking into that more. Also, looking at the Matrix xR.

Anyways, we really appreciate all of the replies guys! Thanks!

Anyways, I love the MR2 but I've heard that they have a lot of problems with spin-outs. Check out mr2oc.com and find the thread titled "MR2 As A First Car?" or something along those lines. mr2oc.com is actually one of the few car forums in existence I am not a member of, so I can't check the thread. My question is, what year cars are they discussing? 1st-gen MRs and 1990 to 1992 models had 'problems' with oversteer. I placed 'problems' in quotes, because I personally like cars that are easy to toss around.

This is why I recommended the '93-'95 MRs, as they solved the oversteer with suspension/linkage/roll-bar/bushing, and even chassis attachment point upgrades - to the point where the car is almost understeering.

Um...not exactly sure what years they were talking about. Basically all of them I think. Hopefully Jekyl can jump in here, I think I remember him saying that he wrecked like 5 or something.

Here's a post from it, I hope you guys don't mind over there:

"In response to the threads that tend to pop up every so often with 16/17/18 years olds asking if it is a good idea to get an MR2 as a first car, I would like to offer the following.

Short Answer: No

Long Answer:

The MR2 is a special and unique car. That is what so many of us spend so much time fixated on this message board, mailing lists, club events, etc. The reason you are here reading about the MR2, researching it, considering it is very likely that you have recognized the MR2 provides some features that set it apart from your run-of-the-mill VW/Honda/Acura/BMW/Toyota. Aside from its striking looks, you've probably observed that the MR2 has:

1) Mid Engine
2) Rear Wheel Drive
3) Short Wheelbase
4) McPherson Struts
5) On some models, Turbo

All of these attributes make the MR2 a tuner’s delight. While the car has tremendous bang for the buck right out of the box, with a little tuning and tweaking, all of the fundamentals are there for it to compete with true super cars like the 911, NSX, Lotus Esprit/Elise etc. That’s why we are all here, after all.

Invariably, posts come up with someone asking whether an MR2 would make a good first car. They can be bought fairly cheap these days, there’s a decent supply of aftermarket cosmetic and performance upgrades, and the idea of driving one around when all of your friends have Civics/Integras/GTIs/Celicas has a certain appeal. Thing is, you are far more likely to keep yourself and a Civic/Integra/GTI/Celica in one piece than an MR2. This should be a critical factor in selecting one’s first car. The fact that the MR2 is a highly impractical car (limited storage space, little to no wet weather and winter usability, higher servicing costs) don’t require any input from me or any of the other board/list members. This is a judgment call each of us is capable of making regardless of age/experience level.

However, the other more performance-oriented factors are worth some input from the older crowd. I’ll preface what I’m about to say by pointing out that these threads almost always follow the same pattern. 16/17/18 year old asks about MR2 as first car, older owner cautions that it might not be a great idea, other MR2 owners both old and young jump in and contradict this advice saying they got their MR2s at 16/17/18 and never wrecked it (despite having spun it 8 times in the first month they owned it). Original poster walks away with lots of contradictory feedback.

Without getting too philosophical, we all need to take responsibility for the choices we make in life. Buying an MR2 at 16/17/18 is one of them. Lots of people do it, love it, and have no regrets. That said, the MR2 is one of the most challenging cars to drive on the market, at any price. Seriously. It has enormous potential, but this is only true in very experienced hands. If you are not driving this car to its potential, you’d be just as happy in a Civic/Integra/GTI/Celica. If you are driving this car to the point where it is out performing your buddy’s Civic/Integra/GTI/Celica, you better have a whole lot of experience and/or natural talent.

Let’s look at the list of MR2 attributes above and why the car’s designers made a point of including them:

1) Mid Engine: Knife like precision handling. Transitions faster and sharper than a front or rear engined car. (Drag racing: launches hard)
2) Rear Wheel Drive: Ability to modulate the car’s cornering attitude with the throttle (Drag racing: Hooks up)
3) Short Wheel Base: Nimble
4) McPherson Struts: Lightweight.
5) Turbo: Power/Engine tuning potential

So, you have all the makings of a super car at a fraction of the price, with greater tunability, riding on the wheelbase of a VW GTI. Sounds like fun -- and it is!

However, let’s look at the list again:


1) Mid Engine: When it starts to spin, exceptionally tricky to recover. When it lets go, it gets ugly really fast.
2) Rear Wheel Drive: Go into a corner too fast and you can’t brake or lift off the throttle to save it. In fact, you have to either keep a steady foot on the gas, or even give it more throttle to keep the car from spinning This means you actually have to try to go faster when you are about to lose it from going too fast in order to keep the car from spinning.
3) Short Wheel Base: Little to no warning when you have exceeded the car’s limits.
4) McPherson struts: Car does not like bumps or surface irregularities mid corner. Hit a pothole or uneven surface and watch the tail step out of line.
5) Turbo: Lag/Boost is very tricky to modulate – especially on a modified car. If you need extra power to exit a corner and the turbo is not spooled because you let the revs drop or are in the wrong gear = you’re screwed. Hit boost early to mid corner when you’re close to the tire’s limits of adhesion = bye-bye."

4cyl Accords seem pretty ideal for the situation. When you guys are ready to make it a little quicker, you can swap in an h22 from a prelude, which will make it good for high 14's. And when its ready for yet another upgrade, basic bolt ons will make it good for mid-14's. And when you're ready to push it even further; cams, an intake manifold, and a good tune will make it solid for high 13's.
Don't you guys have any smog laws back east? I know that that would be illegal to smog here in California. I'd advise against getting a car to put in an engine swap, as it is typically illegal. Just my $.02.

Don't you guys have any smog laws back east? I know that that would be illegal to smog here in California. I'd advise against getting a car to put in an engine swap, as it is typically illegal. Just my $.02.
Not in Michigan :biggrin:

That's a personal matter, I learned my lesson. No matter what you get your son, if he wants it to go fast, he will undoubtedly get a ticket unless there is a track nearby. Hell, if I went with a 300ZX I imagine it would be similar.

There are idiot kids out there racing their hONduHs with a fart trumpet exhaust and getting reckless driving tickets too. It's not the car, it's the driver.

And to consider my information moot, I would like to know what makes you such a great driver? I'm sure you have gotten a ticket at one time in your life. It just so happens that I got one a couple weeks ago. If not, then congratulations. I know that there probably isn't more than a few people on this forum who have never done anything illegal in their car yet, and you are likely not one of them.

You're right. But I don't race my Honda even though it has a canister muffler and more mods. And I've never gone faster than 110 in my Honda, and I've only gone 120 once in my 944 so I guess I just never had the highway balls you have. Good thing. I like driving. But you're right it is the driver. And I'll admit V8 chevys kick ass. But you must admit you have some serious issues with Honda owners.

Back on topic... Integra GSRs are nice if you like things like power everything and leather with 180hp DOHC vtec 4-cyl. stock.

Yeah, I just remembered the Smog Laws here in California. Doesn't it say something like if you're going to do an engine swap it has to be newer than the car or something? Or only a max number of years old?

Thanks.

I would love to get a Miata but insurance is probably going to hurt with a convertible. Plus, I don't think he likes the Miata, he says its a girls car. I think anyone that judges someone's sexuality by what car they drive deserves to get blown a new asshole...just my opinion. :)



yeah he def. hasn't met the guy w/ the royal blue miata around here... guestimating 11's-12's in thatthing, its turbo charged he drives around all the time and spools it just enough so everyone can here it, and he has long hair, he rocks:evillol: :ylsuper:

14's i think are a little fast, my neighbor had a 14 second car and almost killed himself and 2 others when he flipped it on a narrow road,

15's aren't that great either, i've almost killed myself a couple times too, but fortunately my car isnt' any faster or i'd be dead

16's are good for starters... the Mazdaspeed Protege is a good starter car, high in the 15's and 4 doors, that is about the only turbo car i'd suggest, turbo cars are terrribly easy to mod before he's ready for it

i'll go w/ 2.5 RS impreza << stability of AWD and a sedan, not too shabby

I would consider a 200sx if i were u. They can made to be fast one ran a 12.7 at 107mph with a turbo check this link www.nissanperformancemag.com and click on either project evil twin or the turbocharged 1.6. My dad got me one for my first car and we've been modifying it one step at a time with i/h/e and soon to come cams ecu and a 75 shot of nitrous looking for low to mid 14 when done. Just my .02

Yeah, we like the 200SX along with the older Sentra SE-R. Very neat cars and definately on our list.

For some reason though, were currently on an engine swap high, if you will, and really would like to get a car that is good on gas but then can eventually be swapped and turned into a beast. Maybe it's so appealing because it could be like a father son project. Anyways, what are some other common swaps for cars that aren't too old and that get good gas mileage, but after the swap can be made into real quick cars? Also, it would be good if the swap gave decent gas mileage but not necessary since I know that's asking a lot.

Thanks.

Hondas are swapped out probably more often than any other can on the market. People like the hatckbacks for their low weight, but after a b-series, or even k-series engine swap, those cars run pretty quick times. A K20a swapped into a hatch with some boltons and sticky tires will run 11s all day long, all-motor.

Yeah, we like the 200SX along with the older Sentra SE-R. Very neat cars and definately on our list.

For some reason though, were currently on an engine swap high, if you will, and really would like to get a car that is good on gas but then can eventually be swapped and turned into a beast. Maybe it's so appealing because it could be like a father son project. Anyways, what are some other common swaps for cars that aren't too old and that get good gas mileage, but after the swap can be made into real quick cars? Also, it would be good if the swap gave decent gas mileage but not necessary since I know that's asking a lot.

Thanks.

well the issue with a car that get an engine swap: while the car is down , what is your son going to drive?

personally i think any young kid would be happy with an rsx type s, but his peers will be jealous...

if you want him to learn the basics of car control (and it will make him a better driver), you want RWD, good gas mileage, decent insurance, and swap options? Nissan 240SX. i have one and its been very reliable and its fun to toss around, it tends to understeer a bit though

Dsm

Yeah, I just remembered the Smog Laws here in California. Doesn't it say something like if you're going to do an engine swap it has to be newer than the car or something? Or only a max number of years old?

Thanks.



Hmm Palos Verde eh? Not far from where I am.

There was an article in sport compact car a few months ago, the july issue i think (you could find it on e-bay). The guys swap an h22 engine into a crx, the crx is a super-lightwieght car to start w/ and it has good gas mileage. The reliability might be a problem because it is not the newest car, but you would have alot of aftermarket support from tuners and a bounty of advice from owners all over the web. If you want something newer you could try and RSX-s engine thrown into a Civic, the civic is obviously relaible, practical, and easy on the gas maileage. We have already gathered that the Acura's engine is awesome...

There was an article in sport compact car a few months ago, the july issue i think (you could find it on e-bay). The guys swap an h22 engine into a crx, the crx is a super-lightwieght car to start w/ and it has good gas mileage. The reliability might be a problem because it is not the newest car, but you would have alot of aftermarket support from tuners and a bounty of advice from owners all over the web. If you want something newer you could try and RSX-s engine thrown into a Civic, the civic is obviously relaible, practical, and easy on the gas maileage. We have already gathered that the Acura's engine is awesome...

I remeber reading that. I'll see if I can dig it up when I get back home from work....was it the same one that had the four Supras from Texas where thre of them were making 1kwhp? If so, I still have it. I think they said the only problem was that you needed a special harness for the wiring and what not, and only one company made them...still, an H22 in a CRX would be the muts nuts.

Redneck - Yep, smack dab in Palos Verdes, a mere 15 minute drive to Long Beach, you live in LB, right?

Anyways, yeah the Civic seems like a really good car and a CRX would be great. Only problem is that their a little old, a CRX would be an awesome car to have. A Civic seems like the obvious choice though...

Yea but will your son like a civic? The RSX is much more sexy.

ASk him what he'd rather have, the RSX or the Civic. Some people find the Civic more appealing.

Yeah, he likes the Civic more because he likes hatches, plus he says that nobody would expect a swapped motor in a lowly Civic. :)

o0o so he wants a sleeper!! iono try seeing if he wants a Galant VR-4, they are mighty mighty sedans, first generation of all wheel drive sedans and potentially worth more after you purchase it than before too only 3k made ever

^I agree the galant VR4 is a really nice sleeper, so is the dodge spirit R/T... both easily modable cars, and they're about 14.9 or 15.0ish cars stock???

How's the Dodge Spirit R/T one gas mileage? My only concern with the Galant VR-4 is that it's older...but yeah, I've heard GREAT things about them.

prett sure the dodge spirit is olllllddd too

my buddy's GVR-4 is not bad, its just the guy b4 him that had it was a dumbass and couldn't perform basic stuff right, parts are easy to come by cuz they are all 1g eclipse GSX parts same engine and almost everything

dsm's are fairly easy to work on and they hold up pretty well if they are the 6 bolts (like the GVR-4)

and its got 4 doors = better insurance

Well im on my 3rd or 4th car now but I'm hopefully going to be buying a 5th or 6th gen Civic hatch sometime in the next year or so, then doing a GSR swap. It's definetly not the fastest thing but I feel that it's a great balance between cost, reliability, maintainance, and looks. Pretty cheap, tons of parts, and easy to drive, great choice IMO.

the dodge spirit is just as old as the gvr4... it's got 4 doors, but it's FWD, not AWD like the vr4... IDK if it has the same amount of aftermarket support, but it definitly is a sleeper too... I think it gets like 23 or 24 in the city... go to auto.consumerguide.com and go to the used cars section, and than click under the dodge part... you can find out all the info you need for it there... you can also check out the gvr4 while you're there if you wish... I think either car would be a great choice, but I think the gvr4 might have more aftermarket support though

The new Civic Si doesn't need a motor swap. It has the same motor as the RSX-Type S in it. You should have your son look at one, if you think you can afford a $20K car. Personally I think, as stated previously, that an integra gs-r would be your best bet, as one can be picked up for very little dough, comparatively speaking.

Redneck - Yep, smack dab in Palos Verdes, a mere 15 minute drive to Long Beach, you live in LB, right?



Yup, in LB.