I could CRY!! But it's fixable...

Look what happened

http://www.bluesteam.net/images/other/IMG_2226.jpg

It can be fixed because it is a clean break. Thanks goodness. But I think it is because I used Dot4 brake fluid.

I read on this forum that one should not use DOT4 brake fluid.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=239487&highlight=brake+fluid

Please can someone update the FAQ's to say this specific fact. It could be potentially dangerous for modellers!!

Please Please Moderators. Update the FAQ!!

~* gabbadude *~

It look much more like a bad luck. I have read many success story with Dot4 brake fluid.

well, It seems to have weakened the body somehow. I mean, how does something like this happen. I was very careful...

musta made it brittle. It looks like you can glue it together and use putty/sanding

Looks like the same thing that happened when I used Castrol Super Clean to remove Tamiya spray paint from a Tamiya body. It seemed to make the plastic much more brittle and pieces flaked off. I will never use CSC again.

Yeah, brittle is the word. I have just laid down some putty. will sand it tommorrow. Thank goodness it was a clean break. I will keep you posted.

:owned:

now make a progress thread! :bigthumb:

Gee, did I say something about 99% isopropyl being safer...?

Gee, did I say something about 99% isopropyl being safer...?

91% alcohol is what I use, and have never had a problem.

It's much safer for your health than some of these harsh chemicals people resort to. It works quickly, and it's cheap!!!

How did you fix the break? If I were you I'd use some kind of reinforcement so it doesn't happen again.
I know oven cleaner can make the plastic brittle, I suppose brake fluid could do the same if left immersed too long. :dunno:

MPWR, We can't read EVERY single thread in here. Some people recommend brake fluid and others recommend isopropyl. I can't use both. I had to choose. this DOT4 and DOT3 things should be added in the FAQ. If it was then I might not have had a problem. People need to know this. I can't get CSC where I live. Noone sells it.

So try and understand and give me a break...

I never had problems with DOT3 brake fluid, 24 Hrs immersion, safe also on transparents. Only problem is that go dirty use by use: someone filter that stuff?

I will definitely try DOT3 next time

MPWR, We can't read EVERY single thread in here. Some people recommend brake fluid and others recommend isopropyl. I can't use both. I had to choose. this DOT4 and DOT3 things should be added in the FAQ. If it was then I might not have had a problem. People need to know this. I can't get CSC where I live. Noone sells it.



chill out dude...
MPWR and many others have shared too much of their invaluable experience with us to warrant wrist slapping.

I'm sorry to hear about your trouble but glad to hear you can fix it. I've used DOT3 and 4 (more times than I care to think about :) ) without any trouble. Although your problem illustrates the truth in the saying "test it first" if you are trying something for the first time.

Is the kit a Revell by any chance?
I seem to recall some fairly recent threads about some newer Revell kits being made in China with a new plastic that is reacting badly to some paints and primers. If so, maybe it ALSO reacts to DOT fluid too? If you are interested, a search should locate the threads for you (might also throw up Isopropyl ;) )

Good luck with the rest of the build and look forward to seeing it finished :bigthumb:

To bad, I to always use brake fluid, DOT4 to be exact, never ever did I had a problem with plastic parts. I do leave it only that long when I see paint strip (usualy if it is fresh paint 3-4 hours).
Resin is something different, never use brake fluid on resin, only owen cleaner.
Something else comes to my mind, did the body had tension when it was in BF bath (I mean did it float in it or you fixed it somehow) because from the picture it looks slightly warped.

klutz, I apologise if I sounded as though I was questioning his invaluable experience, (Which I wasn't as far as I'm concerned) but all I am saying is that he could've phrased his statement a little better without implying that I was supposed to have known that.

I am greatful for all the assistance that is provided in these forums. I just think that he needed to be a little more tolerable.

Build on dudes.....

~* gabbadude *~ out!

By the way Klutz, It's a Tamiya kit. After I glued the body I checked for warp and none was visible. So i guess it's still ok.

Was the S2000 immersed in brake fluid to strip it?

I hope everyone who uses brake fluid to strip paint knows that they should wipe or brush it on and don't immerse the part (it's buried in the FAQ's in a link to Bonedigger's test of different strippers). That can/will make all the difference in the world-immersion can lead to broken/damaged/destroyed bodies, while just wiping it on is far less harmful to the plastic itself. I've seen for myself the vast difference in plastic quality after being subjected to both immersion and just wiping the fluid on. Just because you've immersed a body before w/o damage doesn't preclude it from happening to another kit.

I rarely strip paint because generally I've learned how to repair most mistakes and cover over them without drowning the body in too many coats of paint. To me stripping paint is the absolute last resort when/if I can use the paint already in place as a good primer. I've seen many people waste their paint and time by stripping what was essentially a decent paint job with minor problems that could be repaired and covered over with subsequent coats. There's no denying that there is a certain fascination with chemicals and dipping bodies (like 1:1 cars being built at the factory or being restored) and the desire to spray only over a "clean canvas" that's epidemic amongst car modelers :icon16:

In the FAQ it expains that you should dip it. If this is not the case then it needs to be corrected. Not so?

In the FAQ it expains that you should dip it. If this is not the case then it needs to be corrected. Not so?

I didn't have the time to wade through every nook and cranny of the FAQ's (which is a royal PITA at times and can confuse newbies as well as oldsters :biggrin: ), but the only thing I saw there was reference to dip a body in a tub CSC, NOT brake fluid-the post was about a totally different type of paint stripper. If you look at post #28 in the FAQ's and go down to the bottom of that post hit the link to Bonedigger's for excellent information on using a variety of paint strippers. It's old information and CSC really isn't as great as it's made out to be, and since that was written some have found 91% rubbing alcohol to be a good stripper for fresh Tamiya sprays, acrylics, and many prepainted styrene models.

Sorry that some people jump all over others for using the FAQ's, they are helpful but they aren't always going to give you the answer you need or make it easy to find what you're looking for.

Thanks ZoomZoom. You are correct in saying that it was for CSC. I incorrectly assumed that it was the same procedure for brake fluid. Once again, this should be updated.

Keep well.

Some progress on fixing my disaster. I think I did pretty well.

I'm back in business...

Here I glued the 2 parts together:
http://www.bluesteam.net/images/other/IMG_2227.jpg

Here's the putty. I put a bit too much on at first but Who cares about that....:
http://www.bluesteam.net/images/other/IMG_2229.jpg

And here's the result. Aside from the line where the break was, there is no protrusion of the join whatsoever! I am soo relieved!
http://www.bluesteam.net/images/other/IMG_2230.jpg

~*gabbadude *~

You got away with that.. I will say though, I've dunked many parts in DOT4 and never had that problem, apart from clear parts.. Don't use DOT4 with clear parts.. I did the same thing as what you did.. Or the DOT4 did..!!

thanks. What does one use then for clear parts? Should one use brake fluid at all or something else?

thanks. What does one use then for clear parts? Should one use brake fluid at all or something else?

Good save! :bigthumb:

When you put your primer coat on, it will show up any minor uneveness or faults that are hard to notice at the moment and may need some further putty/rubbing. Grey colour primer is best for this - but I guess you know that.

I hope you NEVER have to strip paint from a clear part ;)
They are a b***h to fix so that the repair is invisible.

I treat my clear parts like the Queen of England's crown jewels
I Keep them in their bags until the last minute or for quick test fits, I handle them in cotton gloves etc etc.
I'm not paranoid, clear parts just hate me! :lol2:

I have once rescued a windscreen that I got glue onto. I sanded the blemish out with 600 grit, then used micro-mesh progessively finer grades to polish it out and finished off with Maguire's cleaning wax. The remaining blemishes were virtually undetectable.

HTH

stevenski

Sorry to see that your body shell had cracked, but glad to see that it wasn't that bad, and fixable.

I have stripped paint with DOT4 in the past, and I have found that it does cause the plastic to become brittle. I immersed the whole thing, as I wanted to strip right back to the plastic. I have however found that if you immerse it, then use an old toothbrush to loosen the paint every now and then until the paint has been completely removed as much as possible.

Somethimes I find that it is just trial and error.

Yeah, I am really glad I was able to fix it. I am about to lay down some primer. I use only White primer though. I haven't been able to get hold of Grey.

Thanks for you guys advice. It really is helpful...

~*gabbadude *~

Yeah, I am really glad I was able to fix it. I am about to lay down some primer. I use only White primer though. I haven't been able to get hold of Grey.

Thanks for you guys advice. It really is helpful...

~*gabbadude *~

Hi!

IMO grey is really much better at showing up irregualrities after sanding down putty etc. (might just be down to my bad eyesight though :) ).

I just use regular automotive grey primer for plastics to see how things are, correct if necessary, smooth it down with toothpaste and then go with a white primer on top if the body colour would merit it.

You might want to think aboput picking up a can for a coulpe of euros/bucks/pounds/rubles? ;)

hehe, yeah. I actually buy all my supplies from hlj. They haven't let me down yet.

Whenever I buy though, they don't have grey primer. I don't know. Maybe it's just me or they don't want me to have grey. ;)

Whenever I buy though, they don't have grey primer. I don't know. Maybe it's just me or they don't want me to have grey. ;)

:) try this (http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM87026) but also just check your loclal auto store

I saw that but it's only 100ml. I just read here that this guys is a firm believer in white primer. I don't know. I am inclined to agree. Maybe it's just because I am not that experienced.

http://www.briansmodelcars.com/tutorials/tutorial.asp?TutorialID=12&CurPage=1

I saw that but it's only 100ml. I just read here that this guys is a firm believer in white primer. I don't know. I am inclined to agree. Maybe it's just because I am not that experienced.

http://www.briansmodelcars.com/tutorials/tutorial.asp?TutorialID=12&CurPage=1

You are following/learning from one one of the best in the hobby! - same as me :) (learning that is!)

But read carefully what he writes under the 2nd picture - first coat is GRAY primer.

I followed that advise from my 2nd time round and found it to be very good advise and will probably always do that.

That is a good point. But, Why do u think it is necessary to use the grey primer?

Is it the layers that show the discrepancies do you think?

IMO it's because the grey gives a better contrast to the slight shadows that are created by the irregularities and just makes them easier to see. A white surface will kind of "dazzle" the eyes if you know what I mean. Whatever, it works! :)

No modeling shops in CT?

Hey, :) How did u know I was in CT?

lekker dag bud - is that right? :)

Stellenbosch isn't that far away from CT and I love CT!!!

hehe, yes. That's right. Well done. So where u from? To answer your question about hobby shops, well, there aren't many hobby shops. In fact none in Stellenbosch.

You were right, The primer did show the irregularities. I have now sanded it to be level. :)

http://www.bluesteam.net/images/other/IMG_2231.jpg

cool!
Did u use grey or white?
You might find you'll have another couple of rounds or putty, primer, sand, putty, primer until you are fully happy :):)
BTW I'm in Warsaw, Poland - been to CT several times and nearly moved there a couple of years ago. Cape to Cuba is one of my all time favourite restaurants. Know it?

Well, I have just added another light layer of primer. I will see in 20min if it is still unlevel.

I don't know that restaurant. Where abouts it it? Do you know?

Kalkbay on the main road. I'm pretty sure they have a www - check it out :) Maybe you'll like it

I will do. Thanks. :)

Hey, tell me something, how long should I wait in between coats of primer before I add another layer?

I have added 3 thin layers so far. If this one doesn't show an eneven surface then I won't sand and add anymore.

I'm a conservative and slow builder so I leave about 2 months between coats! :)

In my experience primers dry PDQ. If they are the same brand give it about 30mins between body fixing coats. I pesonally would let the final primer stages dry out 24hrs before I start putting paint down, though - just in case.

Like I said - I'm cautious! ;)

That's excellent to know. On Primera Man's "How To" he says one should leave it for a week before laying down the color coat.

What do you think?

I think PMan knows a damn load more than me about modeling! :)

Even though, I can honestly say that I let my Tamiya primers dry out over night then put paint on them and had no problems (at least due to that ;) )

Be interesting to see what others recommend...

I would also think that it's not that necessary for a whole week. It just feels too long.

Leave the primer overnight, and it should be fine. A week is more than plenty (but as I'm sure you're learning it is better to be safe).

MPWR, We can't read EVERY single thread in here. Some people recommend brake fluid and others recommend isopropyl. I can't use both. I had to choose. this DOT4 and DOT3 things should be added in the FAQ. If it was then I might not have had a problem. People need to know this. I can't get CSC where I live. Noone sells it.

So try and understand and give me a break...

You're right that the 'I told you so' tone of my earlier post was probably unnecissary- but I only used it because I suggested it in my response to your original fisheye post. You're right also that wading through the entire How-to section, and other search results, it unwieldly at best. Unfortunately, they're not easily edited.

A number of people here certainly do use brake fluid for stripping (and some, as you're finding, have different ways of using it)- but just because it does eat paint doesn't make it a good stripper for hobby uses. Isopropyl will remove laquer (Tamiya and automotive), and acrylics. CSC also does acrylics and enamels. Neither attacks plastic. Sure, CSC isn't sold everywhere, but you should be able to find a good alternate. You're looking for an automotive type cleaner/degreaser, with alkaloid detergents. The brand my auto parts store carries is 'Purple Power'. It's labeled as biodegradable.

Some people here will shout until they're blue in the face that 'I use this and I've never had a problem!' Unfortunately, it takes a bit of experince to tell the difference between a safe practice, and something that usually works. You've had the rotten luck to use two unsafe practices (that certain people still swear by) in a row. Fortunately, the damage done wasn't irrepairable. I guess the best advice I can give is to ask. Wade through the kneejerk 'read the FAQ/do a search!' answers, and usually you will get some useful answers as well. If you're still unsure, ask again- and decide between the different answers you get what sounds best/safest.

Good luck- hoping to see the S2000 work better for you this time. What are you going to paint it with?

MPWR, I'm really glad you're back on this thread. Thank you. I would also like to say that I admire your humility. Thank you for that. We need people like you to show us where we are going wrong. Experience is something tha can never be taken away but only given to others. Seeing as though I have stripped the paint I have decided not to make the S2000 the Silver Stone Metallic but rather "New Formula Red" :)

I think it is going to be MUCH nicer.

So guys, what is the answer? I have a model with really bad reaction between the TS-13 and the base colour and no amount of sanding has managed to rescue it. I bought some DOT4 yesterday to strip it back but am now a bit worried. The kit was made in the 70's (original JPS Lotus 78) so does plastic lose some of its properties with age?

Oh and Gabbadude, I spent 20 years in S.A. and only came back to the UK 3 years ago. Spent most of my time playing in bands including 4 years with Johnny Clegg (don't know if he's still going strong). Desperately want to go back but with two young rugrats will have to wait a couple of years.

leeturne, That's awesome to have played with Johnny Clegg, that guys knows music. Man I am honoured to be on the forums with you. DAMN!!

I think that DOT4 can be dangerous if you leave the body in too long. Also, the plastic they used 70yrs ago is different from today's platics so it's a little bit of a risk to do it to an old model like 30yrs.

I tried the brake fluid a second time after the disaster struck with my body shell. I used DOT4 on my chassis. But this time I only left it in for 1h30hrs. I then removed the paint more aggressively with an old toothbrush. No problems!!

Gabbadude, yep it was a fun time with Juluka. We played Cape Town a few times including the Olympic bid concert. That sure was fun when they announced the result and we had to continue the set.

I think I'll try your method of the toothbrush and a shorter time in the DOT4. I've sanded it back quite a bit so hopefully it'll strip a bit quicker.

:eek7:

Don't use the DOT4, don't even open it, take it back to the store. If you want to strip TS-13, go to the grocery or drug store, and get a bottle of 99% or 91% isopropyl alcohol. Soak the chassis in a covered container, and scrub off any stubborn paint with a toothbrush.

Surely this thread has illustrated that DOT4 is really not that safe to use- and there are equally effective, much safer (and cheaper!) alternatives.

'nuf said?

:eek7:

Don't use the DOT4, don't even open it, take it back to the store. If you want to strip TS-13, go to the grocery or drug store, and get a bottle of 99% or 91% isopropyl alcohol. Soak the chassis in a covered container, and scrub off any stubborn paint with a toothbrush.

Surely this thread has illustrated that DOT4 is really not that safe to use- and there are equally effective, much safer (and cheaper!) alternatives.

'nuf said?
Is there a common name for isopryl alchohol or a product name (I seem to remember something about rubbing alcohol.)? Is the soaking time about the same as DOT4 or is it something you just have to keep checking on?

I only mentioned the brake fluid because he already had it. Anyway... I think that MPRW's comments are the best route. He knows what he's doing.

I won't use it again after this. Alcohol is the way to go...

I won't use it again after this. Alcohol is the way to go...
The way this model is going alohol is the only way to go. Pass the bottle dear....

I wonder why there is a 4 page thread on this.

I wonder why there is a 4 page thread on this.

Um, probably because people are exchanging ideas and learning. Isn't that what we're here for?

Um, probably because people are exchanging ideas and learning. Isn't that what we're here for?

MPWR, As self-confessed DOT user who is seeing the light, I have question.

Does alcohol lose its stripping power over time? Or can you filter/ out the larger bits of paint debris and use it again and again and again?

Sorry if it's a dumb question but I'm curious.

For anyone who's interested, Jimmy Dludlu is also worth listening to :) :bigthumb:

Um, probably because people are exchanging ideas and learning. Isn't that what we're here for?

eh, you are right.......lets brainstorm!

Yeah MPWR, I'd also like to know. Is it a ongoing expense or can one reuse alcohol?