First NICE car.

I am in the market for buying a new car for my youngest son. He will be turning 18 and has been driving for many years now. He has been driving a Honda Accord sedan. He hates the car. For his birthday I want to give him a new car. He has saved 20k already but that is not enough so I have decided to help him out. The cars he is interested in are: Mazda RX-8, Pontiac GTO, Infiniti G35, Nissan 350Z, Honda S2000 and my Yukon XL. I have driven SUV's due to my job all my life and have stayed in the GM family. I will not buy a ford though. I do not know much about these cars. Please inform me of how they're reliabilty, gas economy, saftey, and comfort in intererors is. I am also open to any suggestions of other cars. (concerning speed, i trust him, so that is not a factor). Any input would be greatly appreciated.

just add, I have researced these vehicles but i have found in the past that the car company's websites aren't always completly true

As far as comfort it all depends on what you're used to and how big you are. Check out Consumer Reports for the most acurate info on safety, fuel economy and the like.

Unless he's dead set on an RX-8, the others are better cars, and personally I love the RX-8, but the rotary tends to use a lot of oil, gets rather poor gas milage considering it's output, and reliability is questionable. The S2000 is a great car, but lacks torque and low-end power, however I understand it handles very well and it's a Honda. The G35 is a great car, as well as the 350Z, but the G35 just seems to be a step up from the 350Z in terms of luxury and overall quality, but you pay for it. The Yukon XL is a good vehicle, but I don't see why an 18 year old would need a Suburban. The GTO is awesome, and is quite fast, but insurance will be very high. The interior is very nice one of GM's best, and overall quality is very good. All of them will be safe, pretty much every new car on the road is safe these days. Out of the choices I'd go with GTO. It screams badass, which is perfect for an 18 year old, as long as he can control his right foot. You might also look at a Lexus IS300, BMW 3-series, and Acura TSX.

On a side note I wouldn't trust Consumer Reports reliability ratings, many people myself included feel that they are biased against American cars and biased for certain brands, and I'm a multiple time and current owner of a Japanese vehicle.

Unless he's dead set on an RX-8, the others are better cars, and personally I love the RX-8, but the rotary tends to use a lot of oil, gets rather poor gas milage considering it's output, and reliability is questionable. The S2000 is a great car, but lacks torque and low-end power, however I understand it handles very well and it's a Honda. The G35 is a great car, as well as the 350Z, but the G35 just seems to be a step up from the 350Z in terms of luxury and overall quality, but you pay for it. The Yukon XL is a good vehicle, but I don't see why an 18 year old would need a Suburban. The GTO is awesome, and is quite fast, but insurance will be very high. The interior is very nice one of GM's best, and overall quality is very good. All of them will be safe, pretty much every new car on the road is safe these days. Out of the choices I'd go with GTO. It screams badass, which is perfect for an 18 year old, as long as he can control his right foot. You might also look at a Lexus IS300, BMW 3-series, and Acura TSX.

On a side note I wouldn't trust Consumer Reports reliability ratings, many people myself included feel that they are biased against American cars and biased for certain brands, and I'm a multiple time and current owner of a Japanese vehicle.

:iagree:

My choice would be the G35 Coupe. Luxurious yet sporty, has plenty of power for an 18 year old, good quality car, and last... the car is just plain sexy. :grinyes:

G35 Coupe is a great car....

I like the TSX as mentioned also...

I definitely would take the G35. the sport coupe with the aero kit is sexy as all hell and it cranks out 300 hp.

Yep. I like the G35. Yukon's reliability can't hold a candle to it. GTOs make me yawn. Sure, its fast, but its a GM and it looks about as exciting as a Prius to me. Don't get me wrong... I've owned 9 GMs, even worked for GM, but they're my last choice for engineering. No offense intended.

I like the 350, but why not step up to the G35. Same thing, better leather.

S2000 is a truly race-style car. It has a small engine with impressive power, but you have to rev it to 8000 to get it. VERY frustrating on the street and in traffic, but I'm used to 454s, 455s, and the occasional Caddy 500. I'm all about torque :) In my opinion, the 2000 is not enough car for the cash.

I also agree with SuperHighOutput; the BMWs are amazing cars. The engineering that goes into them is incredible, the tuning is spot-on, and the new M3 is reportedly going to have the 4.0L V8. Wicked fast, whisper quiet, and chassis engineering that can't be beat.

Thank you for all of the imput. I've called my insurance agent and was asking prices. This blew me away: it is cheaper to insure a 2005 GTO than it is a Acura RSX type s. anyways my son is going to college and he doesn't want my huge yukon so that is out of the question. He loves the GTO but I personally think that its horrible gas millage makes it impracticle. I asked him what his favorite car would be besides the GTO, he would like a G35, however, this car is quite pricey. even used ones run around 30k. this is just a little out of my price range

Just to add... you remind me a lot of my father. He trusted me with anything and knew I was a good driver, but on a teacher's salary the best he could do was an 83 Chevy Celebrity :) He made up for it, though. My college grad gift was a new 96 Impala SS

Thank you for all of the imput. I've called my insurance agent and was asking prices. This blew me away: it is cheaper to insure a 2005 GTO than it is a Acura RSX type s. anyways my son is going to college and he doesn't want my huge yukon so that is out of the question. He loves the GTO but I personally think that its horrible gas millage makes it impracticle. I asked him what his favorite car would be besides the GTO, he would like a G35, however, this car is quite pricey. even used ones run around 30k. this is just a little out of my price range

So the Yukon, GTO and G35 are out of the picture.

Hmm... I guess the S2000 would be a wise choice then, they're cheap, sporty and very quick. Of course, the S2000 lacks torque compared to the other cars mentioned, but a few bolt-on modifications can change that. ;)

I would like to buy my son a brand new car, but how good are used sports cars? I don't want to buy one that has been raced and torn up.

Does your son have much experience with rear wheel drive? Might be good to get him an old rx7 or something for him to practice with for a year or so. You are talking about some pretty powerful cars here that can be very deadly even when used with reasonable care. I am not questioning your sons driving abilities, but he is quite young.

my son has proven himself with alot of power. He has driven a Milestone edition 03 Vette around a lot this summer(friends dads car). i understand that these cars are very powerfull and i worry about him everyday... even in his slow slow honda, i worry more for people hitting him than him hitting people but anyways, thank you for all of this imput,
how hard is it to find an old rx7? he mentions Supras and other cars that i believe came out in the 90s. would these be good options for him? i would like him to have something reliable for college

Well if gas milage is a problem, then an RX7 and Supra are both out of the question, they guzzle worse than most V8's.

I'd go for the GTO, it's not really as good as the Aussie Holden Monaro, being blander and having a smaller boot but it's well made, easy to drive fast in and gets very good milage on the highway if you get the manual.

i'm going to go slightly against the majority here and recommend the S2000. that way, if he is just using it as transport, he can just as easily keep it on the low cam and get back 35-40 mpg but if the need arises, he still has that 2500ish rpm (newer S2000 has a slightly lower cam change point at around 6000) to play with. the rear can get a bit tricky but if he is sensible, he won't do anything that the car can't handle.

a second choice would be the 350z which is a more predictictable car with a less snappy chassis but more torque and power so maybe that point's a bit moot. it's marginally more useable except for that big old brace that blinds you in your rear view mirror on sunny days and takes up too much boot space. kills tyres faster than the S2000 not to mention that it is also more thirsty than the S2000. I would say the interior isn't as good as the honda but both cars, if you're buying second hand, will still get you a good return a few years down the line.

as someone else also mentioned, when thinking of buying a good car that will most probably be second hand, its hard, very hard to argue against a BMW 3 series. Still makes the most sense unless
i) there is something else you really want.
ii) you don't want a BMW 3 series.

I am a big fan of the 3series. the only downside is i would have to buy a used one which isn't that big of a downside. do these cars have a sporty feel to them?

Vurnakes...unless you have your mind set on one of the above mentioned cars, there are other cars that represent a great value for your money. As drunken monkey said, the BMW 3 series is a nice car. The interior IMO blows away the others. Yet the 3 series lacks the kick in your pants factor that all the others have.

Have you tried looking at used Subaru's? Consumer Reports has rated the WRX as the best sport sedan for the money 4 years in a row. Yes thats in the same class as the 3-series sedan and for a hell of alot cheaper. You can pick up a used WRX for less than $20K nearly brand new and the WRX holds its value fairly well. Alas, if you HAD to have RWD then the Subaru wouldnt cut it. WRXs are mid-14 second cars and AWD is very safe in all weather conditions. Think about that for those times your son is riding home at night in a storm.

Buying a sedan will cut your insurance payments drastically. When insurance companies see that a 16-yr old male is driving a new S2000 or 350Z, they are not going to want to insure him.

Good luck finding a car....just make sure you get the right car now. Swapping cars b/c you cant find one you like is a surefire way to end up in debt.

My vote goes to a 2006 Subaru Impreza WRX. Judging from the cars on your list, I take it that he doesn't want a four-door, but still, the car offers plenty of power from the new 2.5L turbo engine (230 hp and 235 ft-lb, without the horrible turbo lag of the old WRX), has a much smoother-shifting five-speed manual, is reliable and practical, and gets 20 city/26 highway gas mileage. The aftermarket on them is impressive as well. If he's gotta have a two-door, go with a gently used G35 coupe with a six-speed manual. Rock-solid reliability, plenty of power, acceptable gas mileage, a nicely-done interior, and the best performance of any car in that class.

Does your son have much experience with rear wheel drive? Might be good to get him an old rx7 or something for him to practice with for a year or so. You are talking about some pretty powerful cars here that can be very deadly even when used with reasonable care. I am not questioning your sons driving abilities, but he is quite young.

I would highly reccomend to stay away from RX7's, they get shitty gas mileage and they are VERY unreliable, you have to constantly maintain RX7s or they'll run like shit. Just my :2cents:

As far as the wrx is concerned, he is poking up into the price range of the STI or EVO MR. Those would be great cars and are IMO much safer for everyday driving.

My son thinks that they're a great car but he would never pay that much money for such an ugly car, no offence to anyone that likes them... just a personal opinion. I think we are going to look for a used G35 whenever the hurricane goes away we will look into the 3 series but i our local bmw dealer is very poorly stocked

My son thinks that they're a great car but he would never pay that much money for such an ugly car, no offence to anyone that likes them... just a personal opinion. I think we are going to look for a used G35 whenever the hurricane goes away we will look into the 3 series but i our local bmw dealer is very poorly stocked

Good luck if you decide to buy the G35, you WONT be disappointed. :thumbsup:

G35 is definately a good bet, looks good, fast, handles well, decent fuel economy, definately a winner in all categories

3 Series is definately a nice car, and the used engine + tranny are great, but there are little things that can go wrong with bimmers that can be a lil pricey

S2000 is also a good choice with good fuel economy, and a fun high-revving engine

Personally for a kid your sons age, Id go with a WRX...its a nice practical, sporty, young mans car that can lug all his stuff to school, and take the friends for a nice ride here-and-there

I reccomend the pontiac GTO, that is a very nice car. I think he would be happy with that.

I reccomend the pontiac GTO, that is a very nice car. I think he would be happy with that.

well yeah im sure hed be happy......until gas hit 4 bucks a gallon. GTO just isnt practical for a 18 yr old driver. On the other hand, just b/c you are young doesnt mean that you cant drive a sporty car.

Go with the WRX! and about the looks....IMO the WRX looks fine...especially for a sedan.

well yeah im sure hed be happy......until gas hit 4 bucks a gallon. GTO just isnt practical for a 18 yr old driver. On the other hand, just b/c you are young doesnt mean that you cant drive a sporty car.

Go with the WRX! and about the looks....IMO the WRX looks fine...especially for a sedan.

A GTO is no less practical then a G35, 350Z, or S2000. He doesn't appear to be looking for practicality.

As for the gas comment here's a comparo of the mpg for some of the cars.
GTO: 17/25 - Manual
G35: 19/26 - Manual
WRX: 20/28 - Manual
Not bad considering the GTO has over 100 more horsepower than the next closest car, and 400lb-ft of twist.

we test drove the gto just the other week and i was astonished at how well the car drove

i dont think he wants a souped up grand am. no disrespect to the gto but its so bland. it doesnt life up to its heritage.

i dont think he wants a souped up grand am. no disrespect to the gto but its so bland. it doesnt life up to its heritage.
First of all, it has nothing in common with a Grand Am, that's akin to saying the G35 is a souped up Altima. The GTO is rwd, V8 powered, and based on the Holden Monaro, the only thing it shares with the Grand Am is the Pontiac arrow and corporate grill. Secondly, it does live up to it's heritage because the original GTO was nothing more than a 1964 Tempest Le Mans with a big engine in it. The whole idea behind the GTO was to have a car that looked like your everyday run of the mill two door family car, but could blow someone's doors any time you wanted it to. Which is exactly what the new GTO is, but I think the ram air hood and dual exhaust give you an idea that is has some kick to it.


Now I'm not saying he should get a GTO, or shouldn't get one. I think the best bet is to drive all of the cars he wants to drive then compare and contrast the cars and then decide, which I'm sure is what they'll do.

I think i might be the only one that loves the looks of the new GTOs, i love the way it looks like a normal car but will destroy most other cars. The ONLY problem with it is its gas millage, i would like it to be a tad higher but for what it is i can't complain. how is the 05 Nissan 350zs with the tire threading? also how bad is its interior?

I think i might be the only one that loves the looks of the new GTOs, i love the way it looks like a normal car but will destroy most other cars. The ONLY problem with it is its gas millage, i would like it to be a tad higher but for what it is i can't complain. how is the 05 Nissan 350zs with the tire threading? also how bad is its interior?

Read the review to get a better idea.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/nissan/350z/100464353/researchlanding.html

i dont think he wants a souped up grand am. no disrespect to the gto but its so bland. it doesnt life up to its heritage.

i agree. anything but the GTO. worst-looking in the bunch.

After looking into the BMW 3 series, i noticed the M3... that seems like a very nice car. Its looks are right up there with the other cars mentioned and it seems that if it is a BMW it is a sturdy reliable car. I know the 3 series is, but how is the M3 with reliability?

If I was your 18 year old son, and you were going to be buying me a car within the 25,000-30,000 dollar price range, I would put you in a head lock, force you to a Ford dealership, and have you by me a 03 Cobra j/k! Personally, from the choices you've mentioned, I'd pick the G35... it's a great all around car for the money.

After looking into the BMW 3 series, i noticed the M3... that seems like a very nice car. Its looks are right up there with the other cars mentioned and it seems that if it is a BMW it is a sturdy reliable car. I know the 3 series is, but how is the M3 with reliability?

Well, as an M3 owner I feel obligated to answer this one. The M3 has been a great car for me. I have had next to no problems with it, but while I have had a good experience, some people have engine trouble. The S54 engine is a 3.2l that puts out 333hp. To do this, the M3 runs very high compression. As long as you don't run them up past 7,000rpms every time you drive it and take care of it properly, they are generally very reliable cars.

Putting the reliability aside, the M3 is an amazing car. Few cars share a luxury aspect so well with a sporty aspect as well. The interior quality far surpasses the 350z, GTO, S2000, WRX, etc, and is significantly better then the G35 imo. They are as quick in a straight line as the GTO, have godly handling for a 4 seater, but also make a great daily driver.

The only problem with them as far as you should be concerned is the price, which is very steep for a new one considering your price range. A better choice for in your price range might be a 330i/330Ci which are very much like the M3, except 100hp weaker and with a softer suspention.

After looking into the BMW 3 series, i noticed the M3... that seems like a very nice car. Its looks are right up there with the other cars mentioned and it seems that if it is a BMW it is a sturdy reliable car. I know the 3 series is, but how is the M3 with reliability?

Its hard to pinpoint BMW reliability. Its very difficult to compare apples to apples. I don't really want to get into a discussion on this (as it sometimes incites) but the reliability numbers that you get from sources like Consumer Reports have to be graded on a curve.

Picture someone who has a random 90s American mid-size car like a Buick. Chances are, the owner is a little older and has always had an American car of a similar caliber. The improvements over the years have pleased them, and the Century they're driving now is a far cry better than the 58 Buick they grew up with. They may not even notice a whine in the stereo, the blown dash light, or the cheap carpet.

Contrast that with someone who's always owned BMWs. Often times they DO take their cars in for warranty repairs on just such small items. Usually, the dealership will handle the claim since the premium price paid for the vehicle takes these things into consideration.

For this reason, the reported number of repairs on a typical BMW and a run-of-the-mill Buick may appear similar, however often times the BMW's reported problems may be of a more superficial nature. The Buick may have gone in for a new alternator, an exhaust leak, and a broken seat track, whereas the BMW went in for a dash light, a brake squeal, and a loose rear view mirror.

The numbers get further skewed by the fact that often times the Buick dealership will try telling the owner that the exhaust leak is "normal wear and tear" and maybe get out of their obligation, whereas the BMW dealer will often gladly accept the car for a loose rear view mirror.

Having ruffled the feathers of everyone... :) I say that to get to this: BMWs have taken a lot of hits on the reliability front. I say, its BS. People also say that they are expensive to repair. Grrrr. BMW is structured differently than any other car company. If you buy a Bimmer, drive it, and take it to the BMW garage for service, you'll pay through the nose to the tune of almost tenfold what you should. If you take it to the local shop, they'll usually either turn you away or charge you a huge premium on service. This premium is a stupidity tax on the rich dummies who think that BMW requires some special kid gloves. If the garage refuses to work on it, its because they have an unenlightened owner who has subscribed to all the hoopla about Bimmers.

In truth (if you do any of your own maintenance) BMWs are a dream to work on. They think of darn near everything to make the mechanic's job as easy as possible. Oil filters and drain plugs are easily located and accessed. All electronic connections are routed up near the top of the engine so diagnostics and repairs are easy. Normal maintenance is made easy and doesn't require any special tools. Gaskets are always first quality rubber/steel units that don't require any silicone or voodoo to keep things from leaking. Hoses, wires, and lines are routed away from common maintenance items.

Parts are another thing that people confuse as being expensive. The truth is, Bosch Germany makes parts for BMW Germany, who sells them to BMW North America, who sells them to BMW USA, who sells and distributes them to BMW dealerships. Until they make it there, the prices are astronomical, but the dealerships tack on an additional 100% anyway. A good example of this pricing is a coolant temperature sensor I bought. Directly from Bosch through a parts store it was $6.38. From a BMW dealer it was $59.60.

I bought a 1987 325 iC with 156k miles and it was by far the cheapest car to maintain I've ever owned. Try that with a 156k Buick :)

As far as an E46 M3; The engine will last forever if you take care of it. The suspension will probably need new bushings at about 175k. The fuel pressure regulator will go at about 180k. CV joints will need rebuilt at about 200k. If you get a manual transmission, expect some play in the shifter at about 130k. The quality of materials also tends to usually exceed that used in even the high end Japanese cars. Germans have easier access to higher quality leathers. Properly maintained, BMW leather seats, carpet, dashboards, and other interior bits will retain their appearance longer than most other vehicles. About the only thing I prefer about the Japanese offerings over the BMW is paint quality. In the past few years Nissan in particular has found some new ways of applying paint that really have brought their finish quality beyond Mercedes and BMW.

Now, I'm off my soapbox about Bimmers. Resume normal debate :)

and that's the long version of what i try and tell people.
the short of it is that the BMW is ultimately better made in the first place, hence its higher price.
what's the point of buying a cheaper car if you spend more on it in the long run?

not sure how it is in the US but in the uk, a car's history is very important when it comes to selling on. what this translates to is, if you are buying a new car, especially something that is pricey as a BMW is, you'd want to have a full BMW service history because it will help you get a better price when it comes to selling it later.

I agree, but it hasn't stopped me from consistently buying worthless piles of junk off Ebay :) Have you seen my cars? :D

Its just whatever trips your trigger. My trigger is tripped by unique old American iron. Others like the reliability of the Japanese cars, still others prefer the driving and engineering of European cars.

I must say, however, although the market is still very diverse, much has been done to close the gap. I think any of the cars we're talking about would be fine additions to the stable.

I'd say that any new car on the road can be considered very safe and reliable, so it shouldn't be too big of a concern. However, different manufacturers still have their different highs and lows. For example, while BMWs are known to use very high-quality engine and suspension parts, and their interiors are not bad at all either, electronics has always been a very big problem for them. While I'm sure that there are those very particular BMW owners out there who would take their car in for a loose rear view mirror or slight brake squeal, there are plenty of others who have experienced all kinds of electronic gremlins. iDrive, in particular, has been oft maligned as the worst of the computerized consoles on the market. It's just not well-designed at all, and doesn't have that air of flawless design and ergonomics that the Japanese cars tend to. Neither does the rest of their interiors. The 3-Series may be an absolute joy to drive down a twisty road, but good luck finding a cup holder or two for that late night fast food run. My point is that, as magical as the BMW enthusiasts will make the 3-Series sound, it is far from the perfect car. As curtis73 even admitted, if you don't do your own maintenance, you're probably going to pay out the ass for it, and if you aren't willing to peruse local shops for parts, expect to pay out the ass for those too at the dealership. And it's just not as practical or comfortable to cruise in as its Japanese competitors. It's the kind of car you either love for its build quality and driving experience, or hate for its everything-else. I really don't see much reason to buy a 3-Series over a nice G35 or IS 300. You get nearly the same driving experience, cheaper parts and servicing, more customer-focused dealers, and you're not paying $4,000 extra to say "Look at me, I drive a BMW! I'm better than you!"

ehh the 13B's didnt do too bad... people just say that beccause its a 1.3litre engine running 20mpg.
if you CAN find a 3rd generation RX-7 that is still in good condition with a willing seller you have struck gold. thoes things are hard as hell to find.

All supra's are either ragged out or are stupdily overpriced now-a-days.

s14 240sx's with a SR20DET swap is a good option, motor and labor should be less than 7,000 and you can pick up a nice S14 for not too much. Ive driven one with the OEM motor in it and they are very confident cars in the corners.

My personal tastes draw me to a 2nd Generation Mazda RX-7 (89, my birth year. he may want to go 87, same car just older) with a JDM 13BTT swap.

The JDM (japanies domestic market) motors such as the 13BTT and SR20DET generally have less than 35,000 miles on them and they dont have room in japan to rag them out, its just they dont pass strict smog requirements in japan after 3-4 years or 30,000-40,000 miles.

But swaps may be a little scary to you and your son even though, like i said, with labor it wil end up being less than 7,000 in most cases. any good and reputable performance shop in any metropolis should know both of thoes swaps like the back of their hand (especially the SR20DET swap).

Have you looked into AWD cars such as the WRX?

BTW insurance is so high on integra's because they are the #1 stolen vehicle in the united states.

Not only do Hondas get stolen a lot, they are looked upon by the majority of young people nowadays as race cars. The GTO may be much faster than a '95 Honda Civic LX, but the GTO wasn't depicted as an illegal street racer in a certain movie; rather, it's ragged on by ricers as being "bland" and "a souped-up Grand Am" and "not living up to its heritage". So that'd explain the sky-high insurance on Hondas.

yep. and because the integra GSR is sorta quick they KNOW that a good portion of younder drivers driving htem are doing so because they think they are fast and will drive them like a race car 24/7, causing tickets, wrecks, excetera, of which the insruance company will have to pay for.

if it where me id stay away from all things honda except for the S2000 and the bikes, yes that includes the prelude.

id also stay away from the 350Z. the Infiniti G35 is a great car with a great (meaning large in this context) price.
as much as i hate to say it, if he likes the look of the new mustangs a new Mustang GT is pretty sporty. but a far cry from that vett...
Hyundia's newer Tiburons are quick little cars that can easily be made quicker. putting 150hp to the wheels off the line the v6 GT modles have a nice/sporty interior and a good look from the outside IMO. with simple exaust and intake the pig rich engine can gain as much as 15hp to the wheels. there are also turbo and supercharger kits that can have the thing putting 300hp to the ground, long term reliability then comes into question, however. so i would keep it naturally asperated, cams and headers along with that intake and exaust and maybe new heads would be the limit of modifications putting him around 200whp with a great sound, good looks, and sporty interior.

Not only do Hondas get stolen a lot, they are looked upon by the majority of young people nowadays as race cars. The GTO may be much faster than a '95 Honda Civic LX, but the GTO wasn't depicted as an illegal street racer in a certain movie; rather, it's ragged on by ricers as being "bland" and "a souped-up Grand Am" and "not living up to its heritage". So that'd explain the sky-high insurance on Hondas.

why do you wanna call me ricer cause i dont like the gto. i do like them and they are fast but you cant deny that they look like a grand am. i dont think theyre great but there pretty good. id take one.

and i hear tiburons are pieces of crap. only 175hp out of a v6 thats not too great probably has one of the lowest outputs of any v6 on the market today. hell camrys and stuff put out over 200 on their v6s and there family sedans. the tiburon is supposed to be a sports car. maybe hyndai will put the 235hp v6 that theyre putting in the new elantra or whatever in the tiburon. and the new mustang is "pretty sporty" yea right its a full blown sports car 0-60 in 5.2 seconds id say thats better than pretty sporty definiteley WAY faster than a tiburon. and why would you stay away from the z its definiteley way better than a tiburon as well.the new mustangs are not meant to compete with the vette. there not in the same league. stangs are like 28000 dollar cars and vettes are like 50k.

ya...the tiburon also goes for a LOT less than a 350Z, 350's arent the greatest handlers nor thefastest of the bunch.
I am giving the guy variety, maybe he doesnt want his son in a 300hp RWD vehicle.
and maybe his son wants to have a "tuner" vehicle instead of one that is fast right off the lot. on top of that i never put the tiburon in the class of the mustang, i called the mustang pretty sporty and the tiburon quick.

and you price comparison is completely assanine, the only reason i mentioned the vett is because he said his son had been driving one regurally over the summer.
you give the base price of a mustang and the VERY well furnished price of a c6. even though the absolute base modle c6, which is around 45k, has quite the aray of features.
on top of that the c6 would walk all over the new mustangs like a picnic,of course they are not in the same league, both in straight line acceleration and in the twisties. the c6 ran a course in germany, 50 miles, in about 25min where the average Porsche 911 Turbo runs about the same. you do the math on the average speed.
the c6 is a lot of car for the price, not to say the mustang isnt but you get what you pay for.

and FYI a tiburon is a good comparison for a GSR...and a naturally asperated 3rd generation rx-7...both of which where mentioned...

oh and by the way if you knew anything about the tiburon you would know it has a pretty low compression ratio and runs a pig rich a/f ratio from the factory and dont have the most aggresive of cams either...

Not only do Hondas get stolen a lot, they are looked upon by the majority of young people nowadays as race cars. The GTO may be much faster than a '95 Honda Civic LX, but the GTO wasn't depicted as an illegal street racer in a certain movie; rather, it's ragged on by ricers as being "bland" and "a souped-up Grand Am" and "not living up to its heritage". So that'd explain the sky-high insurance on Hondas.

Its not just "ricers" that don't like the GTO. In reality, very few really do like it. Its been one of the biggest sales failures of a sports car in years. Im about as far as you can get from a "ricer" and I think the GTO is a pretty bland car too. I adore the LS2, just not in a 3,800lb car that shares its styling with many more unpopular Pontiacs (Grand Am), and isn't nearly as fun to drive as the cheaper 350z, G35c, Evo, STi, S2000, etc. All of those reasons contribute to why I see about as many GTOs out there as I do 911s.

The reason the 90's civics are so popular for young car enthusiasts isn't because of The Fast and the Furious, but because they are cheap, common, and not too difficult to modify. Its silly to think that most 18 year olds wouldn't buy something better if they could, but for most teens, a $30,000 Evo or 350z is out of the question, while a $5,000 used honda is more reasonable.

yeah if your son wants a fast car but doesnt really want to sacrifice mileage......Honda w/ an engine swap is good advice. When you do swaps however, reliability can go straight down the pooper. If my dad had $30000 to spend i would get a new STi or try and get lucky w/ a used Supra. But since he doesnt....i have a Honda.

Its not just "ricers" that don't like the GTO. In reality, very few really do like it. Its been one of the biggest sales failures of a sports car in years. Im about as far as you can get from a "ricer" and I think the GTO is a pretty bland car too.

Yeah, but you have to understand what the original GTO was (and I mean the original GTO, not the glammed-up one from the late 60's and early 70's that you always hear so much about). The original GTO was a pure and true muscle car: it was very bland-looking, and it looked just like any other Pontiac family car, but it had a big V8 under the hood, and could blow the doors off of many unsuspecting drivers. And that's exactly what the new GTO does: looks plain-jane and goes like hell. Yeah, there are many better cars for the money (though with GM discounts, you can get new GTOs for under twenty-five grand now), and I'm not saying that the GTO was a sales success, because it flopped pretty badly. But it did live up to its heritage, and it does embody what a GTO should be. The problem is just that no one wants muscle cars anymore; they'd rather have flashy styling and a prestigious brand name to go with their performance, because God forbid that someone should fail to notice you weaving through traffic in your nice, fancy luxury-sports car five miles in advance. Goddamn attention whores.

i am not trying to down the tiburon. they have nice styling and are pretty fast for the money. but i hear that they are not built well and fall apart. and i was not sure on the vettes price but it is close to 50k i was only off by 5 geez.

no conflict

anyway, the GTO is a fast car but it just doesnt do the job replacing the Z28 and the Firebird. i geuss GM thought because it sported the name GTO it would be an all time favorite.

however id like to say that in my age group (15-19) a lot of people DO think that acura's and honda's are the way to go fast. if yo uwalked into my school in the morning when everyone is standing around waiting for the bell i could point out at least 5 people that would argue to the death that their Civic with I/E/H, Prelude w/ Nitros, or automatic V-tec integra or someone elses similar car is SOOOO much better than a 350Z...or they reguard cars such as the 350Z and the Mustang and the G35 the end all of performance and cars such as the vett and viper are just a small step ahead.
and then besides your honda kids you have your mitsu/eagle kids that will swear their eclipse/talon/lancer is the end all in performance...
and not to bring the tirburon back up but that tiburon v6 GT walked on an AWD Eclipse with just intake and exaust...
Now im not saying an AWD eclipse cant be made fast but these kida act like there is none better...
There was a kid with an Integra who swaped in the B23 or w/e from the little AWD SUV and had an intake, custom headers that he built in shop class while learning how to weld (and had 4 leaks in them) and exaust with some programer and he straight up told me his car would walk on a 911 Turbo.... i looked at him :eak: , laughed, and walked away. we maxed his car out, 146mph...and it took us over a mile of road to hit it.
i also had a friend who had a fairly quick CRX which had a non vtec B18 in it...intake and exaust...he thought he could run anything in town...untill a lifted silverado with a built 350 stroked to a 383 on 35" boggers walked all over him...because all he had raced before that car cars of his kind...

me and my son both agree that we do not like "riced" up cars. We enjoy classic muscle cars. My son (with college) has no time to work on his car and never has had much anyways, therefore moding cars is not important to him at all. I am simply looking for a fairly quick stock car that looks really good. Concerning the tiburon, it is a nice car but after driving the GTO it was quickly forgotten. I know... 400hp compared to somin small. The Tibby just didn't have enough for us to consider it. Thank you for everyone's imput, it has been most helpful. We plan on going to test drive a RX8 and a 350Z soon.

Just to add, there is nothing wrong with "rice" it is just not me or my sons style. another question: when do mazda6speeds come out. We test drove just the Mazda6 with the 6cly and were impressed for a sedan.

They should be hitting showrooms any day now. But if he's willing to settle for an all-wheel-drive, turbocharged, four-cylinder sedan, why not just go with an '06 WRX (unless they are just that ugly to him)?

me and my son both agree that we do not like "riced" up cars. We enjoy classic muscle cars. My son (with college) has no time to work on his car and never has had much anyways, therefore moding cars is not important to him at all. I am simply looking for a fairly quick stock car that looks really good. Concerning the tiburon, it is a nice car but after driving the GTO it was quickly forgotten. I know... 400hp compared to somin small. The Tibby just didn't have enough for us to consider it. Thank you for everyone's imput, it has been most helpful. We plan on going to test drive a RX8 and a 350Z soon.

I dont know if anyone mentioned this yet, but what about a nice Lexus IS300? They are sporty but also have luxury features too. They can easily be found for $15-$20k for a used one.

yea those are realy nice.

i'm surprised that there hasn't been more talk about the '05 mustang gt. it's one of the fastest cars that have been mentioned in this thread. the only cars that are faster are the gto, wrz sti and evo, all of which are more expensive. you mentioned how you and your son enjoy the classic musclecar genre. i don't see a better fit then the 'stang: gorgeous combination of retro/modern styling, 300hp rear wheel drive for well under 30k dollars.

He said he doesn't want a Ford, that's why there has been no Mustang mentioned.

but i also highly recommend a 3-series. i've always been a bmw fanatic. plus, four doors and a larger trunk will be VERY convienent for college. not to mention the better gas mileage and cheaper insurance

He said he doesn't want a Ford, that's why there has been no Mustang mentioned.

oops, just i realized that right after i posted, my bad.............it's still a nice car though......