96 Coolant loss, IMRC stuck open, #1 missfire, O2 lean etc etc

After searching and reading here I've a better idea of what's going on but before I tear into things thought I'd try for some more input.

I have 96 Windstar, 3.8 w/150,000 miles. (new wires and plugs at 110,000)

Biggest concern is loss of coolant - 1 gal / week. No noticable leaks or drips. Can't see any evidence of coolant in the oil (it would be milky, right? or condensation on the dipstick?). How do I determine where the coolant is going? is it related to any of my other problems shown below?

Also I sometimes have a very rough idle right after I start it up which usually goes away after a few seconds or minutes of driving. This probably happens on 50% of start ups. Otherwise it runs fine, good power but with a slight misfire noticable.

I get white smoke during the rough idling. Again some startups I get the white smoke, other times not a trace. I'm hoping that because It doesn't smoke all the time it's not a head gasket problem?

Troublecodes (thanks Autozone):
P0301 - Cylinder #1 misfire
P0131 - O2 sensor voltage too low
P1131 - Lack of H20S switch - sensor indicates lean
P1537 - IMRC 1 stuck open
P1537 - IMRC 2 stuck open
P1538 - IMRC 1 stuck open
P1538 - IMRC 2 stuck open

I've been ignoring these problems for too long - family driving vacation next month so I guess I need to get it figured out and fixed (or should I roll it into the Grand Canyon when I get there?). I recon I should figure out the coolant loss first - any tips on figuring it out myself or should I take it in to a mechanic?

You WILL want to get the car fixed befor taking off on a trip. The Combination of oxygen sensor, and cylinder #1 misfire.....and white smoke....lead me to suspect that coolant is getting into cylinder #1.
I do not know right off the top of my head if the oxygen sensor lines up with the rear bank of cylinders...or not.

2 causes are likely....1 is head gasket....as cylinder #1 and #4 are the ones that have the weakest point in each head gasket.....a thin part between a coolant passage and the cylinder....and coolant "wicks" into the gasket....leading to failure.
The other common cause is a leaking intake manifold gasket. To repair a head gasket....you have to take the intake manifold off......so replacing the intake manifold gaskets is a good idea.
It is a BIG job to replace the head gasket....I have not done it....

A shop may be able to do a "leakdown" test on cylinder #1 for you.....and find out if the leak is at the head gasket. If the cylinder holds pressure.....then perhaps the leak is the intake manifold gasket.

Another common leak is the Front Cover....aka "Timing cover". However...that would not lead to a leak into the cylinder.

Removing the upstream (before catalytic converter) for each bank.....and looking for a green-ish stain on it....will tell you which bank has the leak.... However....it will not tell you how it got in there. Coolant will damage an oxygen sensor......which is in line with your codes. I recommend Motorcraft Oxygen sensors.....they cost a little more (less than $10 more) than the Bosch....but are worth it. I bought 2 from www.rockauto.com

Your IMRC is a separate and not as pressing of an issue. It has a number of threads in the windstar forum...so a search on "IMRC" should get you some good reading.

I just was reading on another forum.....with FORD techs..... They stated that the 96 and newer 3.8L in the windstar is more likely to have the intake gasket fail than the head gasket.
They mentioned that leaking at cylinder # 1 is very common for the intake manifold gasket.

They also mentioned that the intake manifold gaskets come in 3mm and 4mm size.....and the production date of your car is as important as the year. My luck.....whatever size I would order would be the wrong size.......but I seem to remember that they were not very expensive....so If I was doing the job myself....I might order both sizes......and be sure to have the right thickness once I have everything apart.

I guess I am feeling like this is good news....as it is a much cheaper repair for intake manifold gaskets....

Also....Timing cover gasket leakage....it is a big gasket...but often...it can leak....and drip onto one of the catalytic converors......and thus...boil away without having a chance to get to the floor.
They mentioned that the loose bolts that people can find on the timing cover can be a result of the gasket deterioration......and with less gasket material in there....the bolts will then be loose. The timing cover leakage often results in coolant into the oil. But...again.....not into a cylinder. Timing cover gasket is cheap......labor to change is MAJOR on a windstar.

Thanks wiswind, sounds like I have some work ahead of me. I'll start off with the leakdown test and post what the results are. I might pull the O2 sensors too and check for that green stain.

my 96 had the intake manifold gasket go bad,it was just after a weak battery didn't turn enigine over well and had a backfire in intake manifold, blew off the vacume connector. I was lucky the mechanic was honest enough to stop once he saw the gasket was bad, I has signed up for head gasket, I am dissapointed the garage didn't do a leakdown test as standard proceedure to verify head gasket was/wasn't root cause.
my van had 120K at time, 135k & its holding together, mechanic said new gasket was better design.
Contrary to some people's opinions, have since been running Bar's heavey duty stop leak pellets in engine as a preventative, or to at least try and prevent serious sudden problems. I also think it slowed or stopped a timing cover leak.

www.rockauto.com is great for referencing parts but has lousy information systems.

I had a large order duplicated.

A simple mistaek (like this one) and it cost me money to return.

No checks for redundancy.

How they didn't question 2 separate but exact same orders going to the exact same place ?

Be careful

I have a 96 Windstar with the same exact problems, coolant loss etc, I'm interested in the outcome of your tests.

I have been using Bar's Stop Leak for 2 years....and has kept leaks under control.
I did a coolant system flush last spring....did not put stop leak in.....and the coolant bottle level started a slow drop this winter.....added stop leak...and problem was solved.

I use either "Liquid Aluminum" or the Stop Leak liquid....as the pellet version is hard to add, unless you warm it up first......due to the fact that the Radiator mounted Tranny cooler is right under the radiator cap. But the original pellet version works.
I WOULD use ONLY Bar's brand.

I have a 96 Windstar with the same exact problems, coolant loss etc, I'm interested in the outcome of your tests.

I'm going to have to wait till the first week of June to get it into the shop - wife can't do without the van during the school year. Will let you know.

I just was reading on another forum.....with FORD techs.....

Wiswind: Don't suppose you could post a link to that site - sounds like another good resource we should all have in our favorites list.
Thanks
Robert

www.flatratetech.com

I have a 96 Windstar with the same exact problems, coolant loss etc, I'm interested in the outcome of your tests.

gbarr:
After some more reading and research I've pretty much convinced myself that I have an intake manifold gasket problem. Even if I don't it sounds like I should replace them anyway. I could have a mechanic do a bunch of tests but I figure why spend $50 - $100 when I'm pretty sure I know what the answer is. I'll get my parts ordered and hopefully get the job done in the next few weeks - will let you know what I find in there.

.......intake manifold gaskets come in 3mm and 4mm size.....and the production date of your car is as important as the year. ........

I called the local Ford dealer and gave them my VIN and asked which thickness I should get. He read from a service bulletin that I should use a 3mm unless the manifold had been replaced at one time in which case I should use a 4mm. Not sure if I should trust this info?

Incidently they wanted $65.54 for the gasket set which was a special order. I checked www.parts.com (supposedly "genuine Ford parts") and they want $30.35 + 7.95 s/h). I just can't figure out which of their gaskets are 3mm and which are 4mm. They had gaskets for 96-98 and 95-00 - anyone have any idea what the thicknesses might be.(parts.com hasn't responded to my email and it looks unlikely that they will). If I can't figure it out I could order both and return the wrong one.

Millennium Ford in the Seattle Washington area is listed in the Parts.com list of Ford Dealers.....give them a try. They responed promptly to an email from me. The dealers list the "list price" and their price. If you give them your VIN, they should be able to tell you....just like your local dealer did.

Their phone number is 206-431-7333.

Thanks for the Millenium Ford tip Wiswind - fantastic resource - the parts guy (Ed I think) has responded to every stupid little question I had promptly. Prices are excellent too.

I got my gasket kit (I went with the 3mm - will return it if it turns out I need a 4mm) and tore things apart this weekend. Getting to some of those intake manifold bolts was a real PITA. I was shocked but also gratified to find out that the intake manifold gasket (on the left bank) was trashed. There were pools of antifreeze all over and a thick sludge buildup everywhere else. The gasket was worse towards the front of the motor (#1 cylinder) and the center cylinder area of the gasket was pretty chewed up too. The right bank gasket wasn't too bad and I don't think there was any leaking there.

A few other things I noticed - the EGR nozzles that feed into each cylinder on the intake manifold were completely blocked (but easlily cleaned out). That explains an intermittent CEL I've been getting. Also most of the fuel injectors had a buildup of crud on them that had to be seriously affecting performance. I'm looking forward to a smooth running vehicle.

Not sure how extensive the damage to the motor has been with the coolant leak. I'll get everything back together, maybe add some oil additive to try to flush out some of that sludge and then change oil/filter and add some "Prolong" or something similar which I'm hoping could help mitigate whatever damage has been done. Anyone have any suggestions on good oil additives? Maybe I'll get another 50k out of this vehicle?

I would do an oil change right away.....to remove any antifreeze that may have gotten into the oil....as well as any other crud that may have gotten in there.

I do not recommend any additive to the oil......a good oil will do. There is always the issue of how the additive package will be compatible with the additive package in the oil. Modern oils have a very complex chemistry.

If you spend the extra money that you would have spent on an additive.....on Mobil 1 oil......$17 for 5 quart container at Wal-mart....you will be very happy. I would change that oil out fairly soon.
The Mobil 1 will stay in grade....and has a good detergent package as well. Changing it out fairly quickly (depending on how much driving you do) will give it just long enough to circulate through the engine......then you remove it and replace with clean oil and filter.

Then on the next oil change.....if you are nervous.....you could send a sample in to Blackstone Labs for an analysis. They will tell you if you have any antifreeze getting into the oil. If you write your email address on the form that you send in with the oil.....you will have the results within a couple of days.

Oh....I would use a very good oil filter....that will not rupture internally if it becomes clogged. I use WIX...that I get for $4.30 each, plus shipping from www.rockauto.com (that is a REAL bargin) You can also get the same filter at carquest......or by buying the Napa "GOLD" filter.
There are other good filters as well.

I got everything back together. Checked the IMRCs and one was bad (wouldn't move when I sucked on the vac connection) so replaced it (someone is making a killing on those - my local dealer wanted $230+ for the piece of crap, so I ordered one from Y2K ford for $100 less).

It started up like a new car - no rough idle, I backed out of the garage and gave the gas pedal the usual prod - holy cow, torque, wheelspin, dust, tiresmoke. I had no idea I'd lost so much power - I suspect the IMRC was the main culprit.

I'm a very happy camper - hoping this thing will hold together for a few more years.

Thanks to everyone who helped me out (especially wiswind - you're a saint).

I took some photos of the failed intake manifold gasket before I pulled it out - let me know if anyone wants to see it.

Hi,

I'm a new member of this forum. I seem to be in the same situation with this van. I just purchased today (cash) and it was a lemon deal; sad to say I was fooled. :banghead: The guy I bought it from showed me the receipt of the new gasket he had put on it, so I didn't bother to take to mechanic. I thought to myself since i have already read the car reviews online that the main problem of this type of car is the headgasket, in which the seller has already bought a new one. Well, it all went down when I drove it home and it started shaking badly and turning off on me on traffic light. I took it to the nearest mechanic and he told me that the gasket was put on wrong and it was coming apart! He said I may even need a new GASKET! I'm so upset today. :disappoin My bf is extremly upset because I didn't get it check first. This guy was so in a hurry to sell to me and saying that it was shaking because it has been sitting there for quite a while. I did manage to take to an autopart store and they check the engine light that kept coming on. They said it was nothing major and that I needed new sensors put on it. The guy sold me the car for $200 less so I paid 2,200 for it instead. Anyhow, I'm stuck with this van repairs! The same problem-Coolent was put in it and it tends stay empty. There is shaking, engine lights come on, stops completely when on idle, there is smoke coming from the right driver side of the motor, clunk sound when accelerating and slowing down; sounds like it is coming from driver side and there is a lot of rattling within the whole engine part. My friend said its something to do with tention belt or something like that, something> tention. Please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where do I start!!!!! Which why is the cheapest direction. Im so upset................

How hard to loose the Cylinder head bolts?
From Haynes Book that 1996/V.3.8L does not look the same as 3.0L. V3.8L the two middle bolts are between the valves and I don't see how I could loose them. CrapStar96 is bad!

Thanks for any help!

FYI -

Re: Windstar Head Gasket

Hi, a little bit of info on your windstar head gasket problem.
As a ford mechanic i have done dozens of them, unfortunatly most of then turned into engine jobs due to the antifreeze going into the combustion chamber, past the rings then in to the oil sump, antifreeze kills con rod bearings.
This type of leak leaks mostly when cold, and instead of compression entering the cooling system, antifreeze gets into the comb.chamber, and usually runs rough till the coolant blows out, this usually happens to #4cyl (one next to power steering pump) or sometimes #3 cyl also.
Simply take the spark plug out when the engine is cold, I would use my little mirror , put it next to the hole, crank the engine, and see if any antifreeze blows out on to the mirror, a small taste will tell you if you want to determine whether its just moisture or actually antifreeze. sounds backyard but its a quick way to tell fast.
Also loosen the sump plug slightly to take a small sample of the eng oil, if antifreeze has already gotten down there it will rest on the bottom and you will see it come out first, a little sample is all you need, this is bad for the bearings as i mentioned and personally have seen many repeat visits of cars where the head gaskets have just been repaired then come in knocking a month later with damaged bearings.
3.8s also have massive timing chain cover leaks, where the coolant will leak internally into the crankcase as well as externally.

My WindyStar just blew up and I desperately need your help with my Windystar 96 - V6 - 3.8L - 130K miles -

History:
It has been 4 months with coolant loss little by little and temperature gauge jumps to 3/4 when stops at (red light) or traffic jam before the cooling fans start to cool it back down to normal(1/2). Sometimes I see few drops of coolant on ground in the morning and sometimes dI see none.

Yesterday the car ran fine after 3-hour trip from PA to MD. This morning when I started the car I experienced that the Engine was running very very rough, the car was shaking, and looks like it was running with one/two out of 6 engines. I aslo heard rattling noise inside the engine and when I looked down underneath of the car I saw oil dripping down hard from the Catalytic converter. I could not trace it and can not see how the oil could get to the CAT...Now I can only back and forward the car from my drive way but it's not drivable on the road.

What could be the problems?
Intake Manifold, head gaskets or something else?Hopefully not the engine...

Thanks for your help in advance!

tha's pretty scary about the timing chain cover allowing an internal leak. antifreeze could ruin an engine bearing before I knew what was happening. Can i leak enough volume to do that? I re-iterate my position of using bars heavy duty stop leak as preventive cooling system treatment.

I have been using the Bars stop leak for just over a year now. I plan to continue to use it each time I flush the antifreeze. I put it in last spring, and flushed the antifreeze this spring and included a replacement of the thermostat.....everything was still VERY clean in there. No more coolant usage with the stop leak in there.

You can get your oil tested at blackstone labs. They will be able to tell you if you have any antifreeze in your oil....before the leakage is enough that you will be able to tell. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html

Visit the website for more information.....and get a free test sample kit and mailer. A standard analyisis costs $20.