92 Saturn SC2 Stalling.

My Saturns runs great but at least once on every trip it stalls and dies. It may be at idle or at 75 M.P.H. I get a trbl code of 19. there is not a 19 listed for 92 but there is a 19 for 93. Changed fuel filter. Usually will start back up but not always right away. There are alot of choices and I do not want to just start replacing parts. I.E. fuel pump $142 PCM $236 and so on. The car has not left me stranded I was hoping whatever was wrong would quit so I could find it easier. At times the engine R.P.M. does flutter but usually it runs smooth. I can wind it out to 4k in every gear and it does not starve for gas when it is not acting up. It does backfire through the exhaust when the clutch is out and I am trying to restart it while it is moving. Most of the time it gets to about 190 degrees before it stalls. After its stalling spell it might run all day without doing it again. Thank You in advance. Richie

1992-1994 vehicles. 6X signal fault
6X Signal Fault
The 6X output signal is a five volt square wave that is initially high. The signal switches
low at each of the six. 60 degrees crankshaft position (CKP) sensor pulses. The 6X signal
is used by the PCM for greater rpm resolution and in determining KS circuit (system)
(knock retard) windowing.


Diagnostic Trouble Code parameters:
DTC 19 will set if:

Three 6X pulses do not occur between each reference pulse.
A 6X pulse does not immediately follow a reference pulse.

I really have no idea what the hell that means for sure but thought it might help you.

Sounds like crank position sensor tho.

Thank You that points me in direction that is more than I had 1992-1994 vehicles. 6X signal fault
6X Signal Fault
The 6X output signal is a five volt square wave that is initially high. The signal switches
low at each of the six. 60 degrees crankshaft position (CKP) sensor pulses. The 6X signal
is used by the PCM for greater rpm resolution and in determining KS circuit (system)
(knock retard) windowing.


Diagnostic Trouble Code parameters:
DTC 19 will set if:

Three 6X pulses do not occur between each reference pulse.
A 6X pulse does not immediately follow a reference pulse.

I really have no idea what the hell that means for sure but thought it might help you.

Sounds like crank position sensor tho.

have you ever had the engine or crankshaft replaced?

chances are the CPS is bad, they tend to first fail when hot.

I am going to replace the CPS and go from there. I will let you guys know what I find. have you ever had the engine or crankshaft replaced?

chances are the CPS is bad, they tend to first fail when hot.

Replaced CPS and temp senser did not help. My car has 2 temp sensers in head replaced lower one. they look identical. Upper has 1 wire lower has 2. Still code 19 after reseting and car stalling after driving a while. Fuel pump by any chance at all?

RCHAMBER...

I am having almost the EXACT same problem on my 92 SC Coupe.

Maybe you and I can figure this problem out with our cars together.

Mine is stalling at about 5 minutes after startup...and so far i've checked the two sensors (1 wire and 2 wire) and one of them (1 wire) is broken and the 2-wire looks cracked.

See my thread regarding this problem & we'll see what we can do.

have you checked for a trbl. code?

Yes...more appropriately, AutoZone gave me a "check" on it.

Came up with a 12 and a 19...same as yours.

I pulled apart the two sensors (as listed above) & am going to have to replace at least one or both...hopefully that'll fix it.

Let me know if that fixes it. I am about ready to replace fuel pump which I hate to not being sure. I did also replace the fuel filter. Our cars are identical 92 SC 5 speed dual DOHC. Mine has 178k on it first problem I have had.

Okay...maybe we should combine these messages....

Replaced both Temp Sensor and Temp Switch (the two sensors with one and two wires coming from the plugs, both sensors on the Drivers Side of the Engine)

Now it stalls/dies within about 2 minutes. My fuel pump runs after turning off/on the key which also (to me) means that the Fuel Pump Relay would also be working.

Since this is a consistant-timed issue (at least with mine) i'm still thinking its either a computer or sensor or something.

BTW: mine has 173,000 on it and i've replaced Cooling Fan motor, Radiator, and the front Seats.

Let me know what else you find.

- RQ - out! :)

rich, if i were you, i would double check the wiring to the CPS and its connectior.

See this post "5 min Shut down"

Quoting sierrap615:
"don't trust autozone, its not the fuel pump.

"your problem is the CPS(crankshaft position sensor). it tends to first fail "when hot. with no crankshaft position signal the computer doesn't know "when to inject fuel or wwhen to fire the spark plugs. it also rarely "throws a code because there is no difference (in the PCM's mind) from "a bad sensor and a engine that is just not moving.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sh...hp/photo/14836/

"its tucked up above the starter, go from underneth.

"note the retaining bolt. not sure what size, guessing maybe 10mm or "8mm

So i'm going to have to wait until I can get underneath it to replace that sensor...any luck with yours yet Richamer1?

I am going to recheck the connections at ths CPS and the CPM tonight. Also I did switch the relays around so I know they are fine. I am not able to open that link above I get an error message.

Check the other post (mine) about the link & the suggestions.

Someone also posted about using an actual DEALER part for the CPS.

I checked the dealer and they say $32.00 for the part or I can "bring it in" and they'll "look at it"

sheesh!

I am going to get a new CPS from the Saturn Dealer and put it on tomorrow. I got the plug and wiring for the lower Temp. Senser today. I thought mine still might have a little corrosion in it. I am going to try another CPS first and return plug if I that fixes it.

Since you've now gotten to the CPS, how hard is/was it to change it and whereabouts is it in relation to anything else? I'm going to be doing the "driveway mechanic" thing and i'd like to know what i'm up against.
Thanks

It is on the back of the engine behind the starter. You need to remove the starter then it is easy to get to just 1 bolt holding it into the block.

Silly question...
easy enough to do with a pair of Ramps or should I get a floor-jack and Jack stands out?

for safety sake use the jacks

Hey...i haven't had a chance to get the money for a new sensor to change on mine...did you get yours fixed or are you still tech-ing out your Saturn?

After replacing everything suggested still no change. Mechanic has had it a week thought it was fuel pressure regulator. Replaced it yesterday but have not heard from him not a good sign still searching.

Mine ended up being the ignition module. Runs fine now.

92 sl1 TBI

i have an issue where when i' have the car floored she accelerates then the she sort of bogs down (at highways speeds)

you might get up to 60 or so or 70 and the rpms will drop and then power falls off then she'll like reengage and take off and oscillate power/weak/power/weak

if you back off the gas she'll shift up and then work fine
but flat out floored this will happen


sometimes the rpm's will begin to drop with the pedal floored and she'll just slow down...if you let off the gas and then reapply maybe half as far she does ok
its only under full/heavy acceleration


all help appreciated. TIA

92 sl1 TBI

i have an issue where when i' have the car floored she accelerates then the she sort of bogs down (at highways speeds)

you might get up to 60 or so or 70 and the rpms will drop and then power falls off then she'll like reengage and take off and oscillate power/weak/power/weak

if you back off the gas she'll shift up and then work fine
but flat out floored this will happen


sometimes the rpm's will begin to drop with the pedal floored and she'll just slow down...if you let off the gas and then reapply maybe half as far she does ok
its only under full/heavy acceleration


all help appreciated. TIA

Two things come to mind, a failing throttle position sensor or a plugged catylitic converter.

See this post "5 min Shut down"

Quoting sierrap615:
"don't trust autozone, its not the fuel pump.

"your problem is the CPS(crankshaft position sensor). it tends to first fail "when hot. with no crankshaft position signal the computer doesn't know "when to inject fuel or wwhen to fire the spark plugs. it also rarely "throws a code because there is no difference (in the PCM's mind) from "a bad sensor and a engine that is just not moving.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sh...hp/photo/14836/

"its tucked up above the starter, go from underneth.

"note the retaining bolt. not sure what size, guessing maybe 10mm or "8mm

So i'm going to have to wait until I can get underneath it to replace that sensor...any luck with yours yet Richamer1?
I just replaced my CPS today. It takes a 10mm socket and can be a real pain in the &#$ to replace. I reccommend using a floor lift to get at it from underneath. An inspection mirror helps to see it. I used a twist handle socket wrench too which was a huge help in such a small space. One way to locate it by feel is to wrap your hand over the starter solenoid and feel your way straight back as it is pretty much centered behind it. The sensor sits out at about a 45 degree angle which makes it possible for you to use a socket wrench to get the job done. Be careful not to over tighten once your reinstalling the new sensor, hand tighten as much as you can then snug just a little with the wrench.

By the way, the reason I replaced my CPS was because I was having the same problems as you guys. It started off with replacing the temp sensor, ingnition modules and now the CPS. After all that it stills stalls and dies but at least after changing the CPS it starts right back up instead of staying dead for awhile. Strange thing is, my check engine light comes on but does not send a code. I am starting to worry that I might have an exposed wire that is grounding which could mean pulling the engine and replacing the wiring harness.